Thread locks too soon
amarillion

I wanted to reply to a thread with zero replies, but it was locked.
Ironically, the thread complaining about thread locks was also locked, so I couldn't add my complaint there.

Could it be that threads are locked too quickly? Maybe it was a useful feature when allegro.cc was very active, but nowadays the pace is slower, and thread locking sometimes makes it impossible to reply.

Karadoc ~~

I also I think they are locked too quickly.

GullRaDriel

I second. Edit: or third.

Chris Katko

It's like you said, the post density here is much much smaller than it used to be and the time limit should be extended (or eliminated). There are so few people here now, we don't really have to worry about the problems that stem from re-sending old posts to the top.

I hope one day things get more popular again. I miss helping new people! Lots of us do--it shows whenever someone new has a question we all jump in as fast as we can.

Matthew Leverton

(Waiting for thread to lock, so I don't have to reply.)

Mark Oates

(Waiting for thread to lock, so I don't have to reply.)

Wish I could "like" that.

jmasterx

If your thread locks too soon, double check your mutex.

Bob Keane
JMasterx said:

If your thread locks too soon, double check your mutex.

Try thinking of old baseball scores. I think threads should be unlocked if new information is found.

Felix-The-Ghost
jmasterx said:

If your thread locks too soon, double check your mutex.

This was more clever than it was appreciated for :)

LennyLen

This was more clever than it was appreciated for

Some of us appreciate silently.

GullRaDriel

I'm gonna sem_post a message to allow the thread to run for some more time.

Chris Katko

I was going to say that if I

amarillion

This calls for a lock-free implementation.

Chris Katko

'm trying to post and it gets locked, I'm going to be sad.

MiquelFire

Yea... this place not be active enough to have the auto lock so quick.

jmasterx

thread.notify();

Chris Katko

I'm saddened that nobody noticed my joke.

bamccaig

I didn't understand it at first. :-/ I suppose you were posting early just in case the thread was locked before you finished, but then what's the point if your partial message doesn't make any sense to anyone?! >:(

Chris Katko

My post didn't have a mutex lock, so it ended up split in half by another process. :-/ ;D

Bruce Perry

This thread is awesome. I want to save it for all posterity, but first I need to take a dump.

Mark Oates

Ash. Makes more sense with the second post. :)

jmasterx

{"name":"2322372.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/4\/74f174c232cad8894058b92061f84b55.jpg","w":500,"h":323,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/4\/74f174c232cad8894058b92061f84b55"}2322372.jpg >:(

Runnable task1 = new Runnable(){
 
    @Override
    public void run(){
        System.out.println("If your thread locks too soon, double check your mutex.");
    }
};
 
 
Thread thread1 = new Thread(task1);
thread1.start();

Elias
new Thread(() -> { System.out.println("Java added lambdas now you know..."); }).start();

Mark Oates

lambdas are so in right now.

;)

Bob Keane

lambdas are so in right now.

{"name":"609793","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/1\/51f8bb92021b66380d4639cd77a19a85.jpg","w":1024,"h":576,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/1\/51f8bb92021b66380d4639cd77a19a85"}609793

Chris Katko

Can lambdas contain other lambdas?!

Mark Oates

We should put threads in our lambdas in our threads.

amarillion

Our servers are still on java 7, so no lambdas for me.

bamccaig
#SelectExpand
1const string s = "\"vgdhukw!hurp!vghhQ"; 2 3new Thread(new ThreadStart( 4 () => new Thread(new ThreadStart( 5 () => { 6 var j = s.Length - 1; 7 8 for(var i=j; i>=0; i--) { 9 var thread = i; 10 11 new Thread(new ThreadStart( 12 () => { 13 while(j != thread) { 14 Thread.Sleep(100); 15 } 16 17 Func<int,char> t = o => (char) 18 (o / 30 > 1 ? o - 3 : o - 1); 19 20 Console.Write(t((int)s[j])); 21 22 if(j == 0) { 23 Console.WriteLine(); 24 } 25 26 j--; 27 })).Start(); 28 } 29 })) 30 .Start())) 31 .Start();

Bruce Perry

I used lambdas to make a list of numbers from 10 to 10, but I accidentally 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10.[1]

jmasterx

This text has nothing to do with the topic at hand :)

Bruce Perry

Whereas a normal person would ask whether this thread stops at this statement, Einstein would ask whether this statement stops at this thread.

MiquelFire

I been watching this thread, but couldn't think of anything good to add.

Still can't think of anything...

jmasterx
Quote:

My fellow programmers, ask not what your thread can do for you, ask what you can do for your thread.

John Deadlock Kennedy
J.D.K

Thomas Fjellstrom
jmasterx said:

John Deadlock Kennedy
J.D.K

John Futex Kennedy.

J.F.K.

Bruce Perry

Miquel, you should definitely join this thread :)

Elias

Noooo, don't join the thread!

Peter Hull

This whole thing is screwed.

Thomas Fjellstrom

I'd tap that.

Gideon Weems
LennyLen said:

Some of us appreciate silently.

And some of us reply silently, contributing to the problem of threads locked too soon.

Indeterminatus
amarillion said:

Thread locks too soon

No, YOU lock too soon. And your sister!

Chris Katko

So is Java like... a dead language? It seems like everyone is trying to lock it away until it dies--like they're doing with Flash.

Chrome has completely disabled the previous plugin interface that all Java applets used which is sad, because I love me my 90's-era Physics Java applets.

OTOH, for a job interview with a very big company running Big Data, I was told they do everything in Java. So maybe it's still a huge corporate framework? But with all of the exploits that come out--practically every week--is that really a safe decision to base your corporate software on?

To be clear: I'm not talking about the merits of the features of the language at all.

bamccaig

The platform and language are extremely popular for Web applications and server-side applications. And probably internally for desktop software. Many companies, such as Google, use it as one of their primary technologies. I imagine that the majority of vulnerabilities mostly affect desktop and browser-based installations. Java remains to be very big.

MiquelFire

Basically, plug stuff is being removed as most exploits use that to infect systems.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Java is as dead as C and Perl. Ie: NOT. It's just not hip.

Elias

The one thing basically all the programming language statistics seem to agree on is that right now Java is the most popular. E.g. up at the top together with Javascript as most questions asked in 2015 on stackoverflow [1], same with most used language on github [2] or some other weighted statistics like [3] or [4].

Thomas Fjellstrom

Given there are billions of Android devices, and probably dozens of fortune 500 companies and governments employing (tens of?) thousands of java developers. No joke. It's probably the most taught language for a decade.

It still isn't hip or sexy though, so people will ask if its dying or dead. ;D.

Mark Oates

It's interesting that C and C++ are polled separately. I guess it makes sense, you could probably find wider differences between those than with some other language.

Peter Hull

It still isn't hip or sexy though,

It was hip and sexy in, lets say, the late 90s/early 2000s. A lot of column inches were written about the Java revolution.

I guess it was Ruby/RoR that opened people's eyes to a more agile, rapid style of programming for the web, and Java began to look cumbersome in comparison. But for larger projects I think its 'engineering' side becomes valuable.

I wonder what would have happened if Sun had been able to get applets working really well (or at least as well as Flash) - they were always really clunky due to the implementation and I think that caused a lot of the 'Java is slow' thing that still hangs over it.

Anyway, once a thing gets a certain amount of momentum, it's hard to displace (COBOL hasn't been hip for 40years and there's still allegedly a lot of it still about.) Maybe Java (or something else on the JVM) will rise again! :o

Thomas Fjellstrom

It was hip and sexy in, lets say, the late 90s/early 2000s. A lot of column inches were written about the Java revolution.

Yup. Thats why it is/was taught a lot, and is used to much. It was the new cool, so everyone wanted to use it.

Thomas Fjellstrom

It was hip and sexy in, lets say, the late 90s/early 2000s. A lot of column inches were written about the Java revolution.

Yup. Thats why it is/was taught a lot, and is used to much. It was the new cool, so everyone wanted to use it.

Bruce Perry

Oh my god! A double post! And what better thread for it to have happened in! ;D

Thomas Fjellstrom

The funny part is that I looked at this thread after my browser failed to post one message, and one was already there. Now there's a second :o

Elias

Maybe Matthew de-activated thread locks in response to this thread - and now you see what it leads to :P

Mark Oates
class ThreadTimeLock;
class LOLsandROFLfilter extends ThreadTimeLock;
class IndianIPsBan extends LOLsandROFLfilter;
class ImTheBiggestLoser extends IndianIPsBan;
class BamCensor extends ImTheBiggestLoser;
class RepeatedPostCap extends BamCensor;
class ArthurSecondInCommand extends RepeatedPostCap;
class ForumPosts extends ArthurSecondInCommand;
class AllTheAnnoyingForumStuffIWantToStop extends ForumPosts
{
   function on_thing_happens(Thing thing)
   {
      global $FIX_IT;
      $$FIX_IT(thing);
   }
};

Thomas Fjellstrom
bamccaig

I wonder what would have happened if Sun had been able to get applets working really well (or at least as well as Flash) - they were always really clunky due to the implementation and I think that caused a lot of the 'Java is slow' thing that still hangs over it.

What lead to the "Java is slow" thing is that Java is slow. Not fundamentally, but the default configuration of client Java is slow. I believe it launches a new JVM for every application and the JVM isn't tuned for the machine it's running on. Java can be fast by using the server configuration (a shared JVM) and especially by tuning the JVM to the specific machine and applications that are running on it. I recall when I was learning Java in college that it seemed to be considerably faster in Linux "automatically". Whereas the majority of people that experience client Java are running Windows... And I found the Windows software was just super slow.

Java is not going to go away. There's inconceivable lines of code written in Java that cannot just be rewritten anytime soon. Much of that software will need to be maintained for the next 10 or 20 years.

Chris Katko

I'll never forget being able to play Unreal Tournament on my atom Netbook with integrated graphics, but freaking Minecraft (EARLY version, no special bump mapped shaders) with some blocks ran at <2 FPS.

"What did they program this in?!" I asked...

"Java they said."

Accurate humor aside, I'm sure Java has many qualities. But I'm curious how Java plans to keep moving forward as an enterprise solution when all browsers are removing it, Android doesn't support Java (it's a subside/alternate Java from Oracle, hence the lawsuits), and if I was running enterprise software and I saw that Java had a new CRITICAL security flaw every week, I'd be raising a suspicious eye as the head of IT.

So to be clear, I'm not bashing Java. But I've never experienced a serious programming language have such a huge backlash so I'm not sure how things are going to keep moving forward.

I mean, flash is going the way of the dodo but the thing is... nobody needs flash.

I wonder if the only reason the sword hasn't fallen on Java the way it has Flash is because tons of enterprise software still runs (still vulnerable) so they can't kill it off as easily and worse still... there is no clear successor to Java the way HTML5 is to Flash. The only comparable alternative to Java is what... C#? Which people are still scared of because Microsoft may yet play an evil card, even with open-source implementations of C# like Mono. There's nothing to guarantee Microsoft won't sue Mono the way Oracle sued Google.

MiquelFire

Most of the security flaws have to do with the browser plugin actually. Once you remove the browser plugin from the picture, the amount of flaws they have to fix will drop by a HUGE amount.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Once you remove the browser plugin from the picture, the amount of flaws they have to fix will drop by a HUGE amount.

The actual desktop client software is like any desktop software. Once you allow it to run, it can do just about anything. It's a completely different beast. It is wide open by design ;)

MiquelFire

A previous draft of my post had, but I felt it was too ranty and wouldn't get my point across. Just forgot to add that bit back in.

Bruce Perry

You have a problem, so you decide to use Java. Now you have a ProblemFactory.

You have a problem, so you decide to use threads. Now you hatwo proveblems.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Hah!

pkrcel

You have a problem, so you decide to use Java. Now you have a ProblemFactory.

You have a problem, so you decide to use threads. Now you hatwo proveblems.

Winner!

Mark Oates

Can I steal that and tweet it?

bamccaig

Old. >:(

GullRaDriel

PLOP. >:(

jmasterx

This is a nice dead thread we have here. Would be a shame if someone revived it.

GullRaDriel

Isn't it ? ;D

Bruce Perry

Hehehehe

P.S.

Quote:

Slow down ... you are over working your fingers, your keyboard, and MY SERVER! :)

Only one post is allowed per 30 seconds.

Andrei Ellman

Maybe old programming languages that haven't been used for a while should be 'locked'.

He said to subtly bring this thread back on topic.

Gideon Weems

Ah, to be a housewife. To be a son. To be wrapped in a warm, blanket of financial oblivion. To see others off to work, off to die in a war. Beauty is not truth; it is the powder on your cheeks, the golden locks of your youngest child. Kiss him good bye. Keep him your own, then let him off to grow--but not now. Now he is you; he tugs at your blanket. The husband goes off to bring back more.

amarillion

From what I see in my work environment, Java is still going very strong. Oracle may have second thoughts about it since they can't figure out a way to extract enough profit. But unlike e.g. Flash, there is not one single company controlling Java anymore, so Oracle couldn't kill it even if they tried.

Java Applets though, are dead and nearly buried. Browsers have made it incredibly hard to get an applet working smoothly in a site for (good) security reasons. At work, we're still using Java on the server side but we've totally given up on applets.

@Gideon: where did that come from?

jmasterx

Bump

amarillion

It's inevitable, this worker thread must eventually be reclaimed back to the pool, once useful work runs out.

Bruce Perry

What, like in that {u,dys}topian future where machines overtake us in all fields of work and, although we have abundance and no longer need such concepts as employment, we have to find a new way to give our lives meaning, and can go swimming a lot?

amarillion

I meant work designated for this thread...

But you raise an interesting notion. I don't think work will run out before Humanity has colonized the solar system and then space. So there is some work to do still.

MiquelFire

There is always work to be done!

bamccaig

"Work" is a measure of physical change. In that sense there is no shortage of "work". In the practical sense applicable to mankind I imagine "work" could run out sooner than later if we could work together instead of trying to stand upon one another. Less "us" than "them", which pretty much just means there is an elite group of humans (men and women) with high social class, wealth, and power that wish to keep it and pass it on to their descendants and are willing to do anything it takes to do so. I imagine a wonderful day when we all just swear off "money" and share with our neighbors. The elite have no real power if their pawns lay down arms and side with the other color pawns[1]. :)

References

  1. As a side drunken note, I wonder how a game of chess would play out if there were 3 independent sides: white, black, and pawns. :o
Johan Halmén

Threads lock because there's no discussion. Move on!

GullRaDriel

Some threads deserve to wait longer before their death.
8-)

Elias
bamccaig said:

As a side drunken note, I wonder how a game of chess would play out if there were 3 independent sides: white, black, and pawns

The pawns would be easy to take out. In the starting position everyone else is behind them, but they are the only ones who can only move forward. So without actually trying it, my guess is in just 8 turns you can wipe them all out.

Pretty much how it would play out in your utopian scenario in reality :)

Quote:

humans (men and women)

You must be very drunk, or something happened to you between now and a year ago...

bamccaig
Elias said:

The pawns would be easy to take out. In the starting position everyone else is behind them, but they are the only ones who can only move forward. So without actually trying it, my guess is in just 8 turns you can wipe them all out.

Yes, probably the fact that pawns can only move a single space forward under normal play would make them little more than meat shields between the other forces. But who knows. There may be a more complex nature to the game. It might be interesting to explore.

Elias said:

Pretty much how it would play out in your utopian scenario in reality :)

In real life the pawns greatly outnumber of the specialized classes and they are far stronger than in the game.

Elias said:

Quote: said:

humans (men and women)

You must be very drunk, or something happened to you between now and a year ago...

I never said women weren't human. I only said they weren't men. :-*

jmasterx

Only on a.cc can a forum thread about forum threads go from programming threads to theoretical chess matches 8-)

I wish Dr. Leverton could pull some statistics on thread derailment >:(.

GullRaDriel

Too soon to die. >:(

jmasterx

Alex: Often used to keep a forum thread alive, this term can also mean snorting cocaine.
Contestant: What is a Bump?
Alex: Correct!
Contestant: I'll take Extending The Lifespan for $1000...
>:(

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

I wonder how a game of chess would play out if there were 3 independent sides: white, black, and pawns.

What does the board setup look like?

Bob Keane

Back on the original topic. Check out the number of posts on this thread. Is that some sort of record?

bamccaig

What does the board setup look like?

I had assumed a normal board setup. Now things are getting interesting. What if you placed the pawns on the sides instead of in normal formation?

+--------+
| RNKQNR |
|P  BB  P|
|P      P|
|PP    PP|
|PP    PP|
|P      P|
|P  BB  P|
| RNQKNR |
+--------+

The pawns are still fucked, but who knows... ??? Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of ways that you could setup the board. If you put some thought into it you might be able to think up a way to give the pawns a fighting chance.

Bob Keane said:

Back on the original topic. Check out the number of posts on this thread. Is that some sort of record?

Unlikely. Some boards are known to have long running threads. For example, motorcycle forums tend to have "picture challenge" thread where somebody is "it" and posts a wacky photo idea that the players have to try to satisfy (usually something like "your bike next to rare noun" or "your bike doing rare verb"). The idea being that it's a game played in the real world intended to get people out riding their bikes looking for the target of the current game. These threads are usually indefinite so they never close and the forums are often international with thousands upon thousands of members...

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

If you put some thought into it you might be able to think up a way to give the pawns a fighting chance.

How about pawn promotion occurring when a pawn meets an opposing pawn of the same rank?

If you're into this sort of thing, I recommend Knightmare Chess.

Andrei Ellman

although we have abundance and no longer need such concepts as employment, we have to find a new way to give our lives meaning

*COUGH*art*COUGH*

bamccaig said:

The elite have no real power if their pawns lay down arms and side with the other color pawns[1]. :)
References

As a side drunken note, I wonder how a game of chess would play out if there were 3 independent sides: white, black, and pawns. :o

Here is a game of chess played out when one of the pawns realises what is really going on - as shown on a Commodore VIC-20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el9S1GNp4vQ

Bruce Perry

But these artificial brains can do art, and most people can't! What about all the people who can't? ;) Maybe most of those people will be happy just to have pampered lives. Who knows?

In a further thread-prolonging effort, I have a story to tell.

I booked something through airbnb. They told me at the last minute that my quoted price included a 3% currency conversion fee. They didn't offer to bill me in local currency. I can't work out if they're violating regulations. What they did let me do is pay via PayPal instead of using a card directly, and in that case, I could choose the billing country and avoid the fee.

I put my foot in it with PayPal though. Apparently I reached a spending limit with them and had to set up a bank account link to lift that limit (something about verification legally required). I did that, and then the payment worked. What I failed to do was change the default payment method back to my credit card. So, they used the bank account link, and automatically charged me a currency conversion fee very similar to what airbnb would have charged me. I think even PayPal would have passed the charge on in its original currency if using a credit card (as I said, regulations), but presumably when using a direct debit, that option just doesn't exist. I'm sure they knew that when they decided that the bank account link should become the default mechanism once set up, and I wonder how true the "verification legally required" part is.

For a one-off mistake, the amount is easy to forget. It's the principle that absolutely effing pees me off. They did not earn that money from me - they scammed me - and I am livid. It's not even just one company - you can't so much as breathe without every company out there trying to scam you all at once, and one is bound to succeed. OK, I'm exaggerating a little.

I'll balance this by praising easyJet, who very exceptionally waived their flight change fee for me so I could participate in a performance of Prokofiev's Classical Symphony which is this Friday in case anyone's in Cambridge. I've wanted to do that piece for years. Yay <3

amarillion

Currency conversion fees are definitely a way for them to skim a little off the top. And if there are no fees, you know that they screw you by picking an unfavourable currency conversion rate.

I regularly have to transfer between EUR / GBP, and it definitely pays to shop around a little on how you do the transfer.

But the very easiest solution would be for Britain to finally join the Euro. No more conversion fees! Transferring money anywhere within the eurozone is so easy and transparent. Most banks don't even have a separate page for international / national payments anymore, it's all one system.

Ben Delacob

If the pawns were another team, they would probably be used as weapons against the opposing team, and therefore not eliminated immediately. However, it's often opposing pawns that prevent promotion. Assuming the pawns were collaborating and that promotion did not mean defection, I think they would have an occasional chance.

Bruce Perry

I managed to cancel the direct debit instruction with my bank before PayPal managed to collect the funds. PayPal have noticed and e-mailed me to say that my bank account link can now be used to withdraw funds but not to fund things. There's no change to the so-called "completed" payment: it still says paid using the bank account, with my credit card as a backup funding source, and my card hasn't yet been charged.

I did some Googling. Apparently PayPal/eBay scams exist, where people pay using PayPal using a direct debit (whereby PayPal will advance the money and are required to give three days' notice before charging the direct debit), and they then cancel the direct debit and ensure the card will fail too. After something like three weeks, PayPal then recover the money from the recipient who has probably already sent the item. So, if that's anything to go by, the payment should be charged to my card, but if for some reason they don't do that, then I can expect all hell to break loose with my airbnb booking ;D

Thomas Fjellstrom

If you're talking about paypal making a mistake, they didn't make a mistake. That is how they operate. The default funding source is always your bank account unless you change that. And they charge a pretty hefty currency exchange fee on top of their normal fees. I ended up calculating it was about 6% total after all was said and done when i was paid for work via paypal.

Now I have a US bank account that i get paid directly to, then transfer that through xetrade to my canadian account. Over all that ends up being only about 1.5-3% total. xetrade doesn't charge any fees as such. They just quote an exchange rate a little off of market rates (obviously you can't get exact market rates for any arbitrary trade) that are always a little in their favour. It's just how exchanges work. BUT xetrade gives me a MUCH better deal than either paypal or my bank. The only problem is it takes about 5-7 business days to transfer through xetrade.

Bruce Perry

Well, I dug up something else:

Quote:

*What happens if there aren't enough funds in my bank account?*
If the bank returns a response to us that there aren't enough funds in the account, the system will wait a few days and then re-attempt the request**. This is an automatic process that cannot be interrupted. If the second attempt fails, the backup funding source will be charged. It is not possible to switch to the backup funding source after you've clicked to perform the transaction. It's important to review your funding selection to ensure that the one you want to use is chosen. While PayPal never charges Insufficient Funds fees, your bank may potentially charge a fee for each attempt.

That explains why my card hasn't been charged yet. The best I can hope is that since PayPal didn't offer me the choice about currency conversion, they will ultimately charge the card in yen. If they don't, I will contest it with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

By the way, aside from the obvious designed-to-scam behaviour of their system, PayPal did actually make a mistake. I called them during the day after the night when the bad transaction happened. I explained that the money hadn't yet been taken and I wanted it taken in yen from my card, and they said they would effectively remove the direct debit instruction and cause it to revert to the card. They didn't seem to understand the part about yen, and generally said some things that made me think they didn't really know what they were doing, but nevertheless, what they said they would do, they didn't do. I then called them a day later to follow up, and they said I should have called sooner (?!). I think this gives me at least a little bit of ammunition.

For the record, my card offers me 0% markup on the Visa exchange rate, and no flat-rate charge either, for foreign transactions. You can see why I want to use it.

[EDIT]
In other news, we got through the concert with the Prokofiev without anything too terrible going wrong, and I spent most of yesterday completely incapacitated by it :)

Thomas Fjellstrom

Paypal associates funding sources in a specific currency IIRC. When I get charged in USD, they convert using their excessive conversion rates and fees, then my accounts get charged in CAD.

jmasterx

Can't ML just do:

$lockTimeout = 30;//5;

>:(

Bruce Perry

Well, they've now charged my card, and still in pounds. I've complained to the financial ombudsman service about both them and AirBNB. My argument is that PayPal should be required to ask about the funding source (and then the currency if it's a card) when the transaction is done, and AirBNB should be required to accept payments in local currency (which I think are already the Visa regulations), and that both companies should be fined for the money they've made so far through these ruses :P Can't hurt to try, can it? These companies incur enough hate for these practices - it's clearly not just me.

As for me, well, it's a good solid £30, but it's a one-off. Worse things have happened, like the time I was overpaying for my phone contract for months, maybe years ;)

Gideon Weems

This thread is dying. I can feel it.

Mark Oates

That was 100!

jmasterx

That was 100!

No, we are not quite at 100 factorial posts on this thread, but I like your enthusiasm :D

Elias

Wow, when was the last time a thread hit 100 posts? I still remember the times when it happened all the time...

Gideon Weems

I would wager that at least three of the most recent five topics with 100+ replies were religious or political.

bamccaig

Pffft, I used to make them crack 300 every other week. >:( Now we aren't allowed to have fun anymore so all we can do is talk about the good old days when we used to have fun. :(

Chris Katko
bamccaig said:

Now we aren't allowed

Not allowed, or just nobody is here to actually reply?

Thomas Fjellstrom

Not allowed, or just nobody is here to actually reply?

It certainly is easier to just not deal with BS than to try and actively change it.

GullRaDriel

I'm not gonna give up that easily when facing the great dictator. Wake up, bande de moules !

>:(

bamccaig

This thread will never end. >:( Swear it!

MiquelFire

We will overcome!

jmasterx

Fight the losing supremacy! >:(

Random thought... we could use the al_mind_control_addon on ML.........

Thomas Fjellstrom
jmasterx said:

Random thought... we could use the al_mind_control_addon on ML.........

you're assuming he isn't already using it on you....

MiquelFire

Or at the very least, he didn't sneak something into the code to make himself immune.

Gideon Weems

I wonder what the API for a mind-control SDK would look like. Would there be, for example, a main loop of a certain granularity, with impulses travelling to and from specific locations in the nervous system? Would there be a query interface for knowing which neurotransmitters existed where and in what quantities? With a higher level API, would there be a simple al_set_happiness(float change), taking into account the aforementioned particulars?

Bruce Perry

Right! Time for the next drama :)

I booked some Ryanair flights. :-[

anto80

I wonder what the API for a mind-control SDK would look like. Would there be, for example, a main loop of a certain granularity, with impulses travelling to and from specific locations in the nervous system? Would there be a query interface for knowing which neurotransmitters existed where and in what quantities? With a higher level API, would there be a simple al_set_happiness(float change), taking into account the aforementioned particulars?

Are you suggesting to develop a mind-control utility to:
a) make a thread able to detect your login on a random thread, and thus extend the lifespan of the thread, preventing it to lock?
b) make a thread able to detect your login on a random thread, forcing the thread to lock just before you want to post?
c) make that thread lock and spit a funny message at you?
::)

Niunio
Quote:

This thread will never end. >:( Swear it!

That's not possible, except if PHP and Matt's SQL server increase their integer type size everytime before the forum overloads it...

Gideon Weems

By the time this thread dies, PHP will have become sentinent and increased its own integer size.

Samuel Henderson

Step 1: Increase integer size
Step 2: Post endlessly on allegro.cc
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Destroy the world and/or Profit!

Bruce Perry

Boobuigi, the dot in your sig keeps making me think there's something[1] on my screen :)

References

  1. :ö: <- Bug!
Gideon Weems

;D

jmasterx

:ö: <- Feature!

Niunio

I wanted to answer this thread and I cannot. :( I want to.

GullRaDriel

BUMP. ;D

Gideon Weems

I do not have an good response for this thread but feel it a pity it did not garner more responses before the Thread Reaper had his way.

Chris Katko

So uhh... where is Matt? This is the longest I've seen him go without posting.

jmasterx

He is too embarrassed to admit that he outsourced the development of a.cc and actually has no idea how to change the thread lock time.

bamccaig

In practice this thread just proves Matt's (silent) point. We've kept this thread alive for almost 3 months... :-/:-X

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

In practice this thread just proves Matt's (silent) point.

That if we really wanted to keep threads alive, we would assume collective spamming duties?

Bruce Perry

I resent the implication that this is spam! :) #triggered #lightgreypostsmatter

[EDIT] If Matthew ever retroactively creates a hashtag system for allegro.cc, I will be very embarrassed :)

jmasterx

{"name":"Spam_can.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/2\/1259697c31f67ba69be1ea2cff309e02.png","w":1050,"h":996,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/2\/1259697c31f67ba69be1ea2cff309e02"}Spam_can.png

Gideon Weems

I need to tell the people in my real-world life that I have no plans on buying Christmas presents. In return, I kindly ask not to receive any. Just let me wear pajamas and enjoy time with family.

This announcement is not important enough to warrant a thread... or even a post, really. Carry on.

jmasterx
Thread.notify(); //>:(

Dustin Dettmer

Is that Python or Java? #holdingbackjavaresentment

Peter Hull

Wow, it's Dustin Dettmer! Where have you been and how the heck are you!!?

ps. I can't see this thread staggering on into 2016, can you?

jmasterx

#holdingbackjavaresentment

What's wrong with Java? :'(

ps. I can't see this thread staggering on into 2016, can you?

Yes, yes I can.

Bruce Perry
Quote:

What's wrong with Java? :'(

Too many Muslims.

jmasterx said:

Yes, yes I can.

Especially now.

Chris Katko

The prodigal son returns!

GullRaDriel

I'm your father, Luke.

bamccaig

Yay! :D

Gideon Weems

I saw a wild bunny last night, hopping over cold grass.

jmasterx

I'm your father, Luke.

DON'T RUIN IT FOR ME I HAVE NOT WENT TO SEE IT YET!!!! >:(

Bruce Perry

Our local cinema invited the orchestra I play in to perform the soundtrack live at the unveiling! ;D

But we couldn't do it because they had massively underestimated how much space an orchestra needs ;D

jmasterx

Just saw it and LOVED IT!!!!! ;D

Mark Oates

Can we talk spoilers yet?

GullRaDriel

I SIGKILL you if you spoil. >:(

jmasterx

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Also, Carrie Fisher's daughter makes a brief easter egg cameo.

For those who saw it already:

r = l + x;
r += f;
h = 0;

Bruce Perry

Star Wars discussion probably belongs in its own thread. I've been advised I ought to finish watching the original three before embarking on the new one, so I for one don't want spoilers :)

jmasterx

My New Years Resolution ... will ofcourse be 4K.... but I also plan to use a lot more Global Variables and Global State in my code. Despite what Bambam has lectured about Globals, they are actually incredibly great and lead to less refactoring in the long run and an overall simpler and cleaner codebase.

In fact, had ML used a global $threadTimeout, we would not have needed this thread!
>:(

Gideon Weems
jmasterx said:

For those who saw it already:

I might add:

free(h); // Because h = 0 leads to an interpreter error.
f += r;
atexit(ls);

Bruce Perry

That fills me with joy. Someone sigged me once for saying that most of the arguments I'd seen against global variables seemed to be religious :)

Now, that said, I have the opposite problem. I'm having to work in C++ a bit, and I missed nested methods the other day. So, how did I solve it? I now have four copies of that code, and I condensed each copy into a single line to keep it 'manageable' :P

Chris Katko

C++ a bit, and I missed nested method.

I'm so pissed off at the basic, great features C++ can't be bothered to add. Plenty of them can be nothing more than syntactic sugar and have no real impact on the assembly generated.

jmasterx

I'm so pissed off at the basic, great features C++ can't be bothered to add. Plenty of them can be nothing more than syntactic sugar and have no real impact on the assembly generated.

C++ is supposed to be difficult to learn and use... that's a core part of the language. You have to feel like you're working really hard and need to write huge amounts of boilerplate code to feel that C++ satisfaction!

amarillion

So does this thread now prove that threads actually don't lock too soon? I'm confused?!?!

jmasterx

No, if they did not lock too soon we wouldn't have to create this spam-fest to keep it alive >:(

Point being - Threads have to be kept alive with spam... otherwise, people could just reply when there is something meaningful to say...

Moreover, threads that get locked too soon often cause new child threads to spawn under the same topic because there are too few users on the forum anymore and often 5 days is not enough time for someone to answer a programming or other question...

We're revolting! Vive la revolution! >:(

bamccaig
jmasterx said:

My New Years Resolution ... will ofcourse be 4K.... but I also plan to use a lot more Global Variables and Global State in my code. Despite what Bambam has lectured about Globals, they are actually incredibly great and lead to less refactoring in the long run and an overall simpler and cleaner codebase.

In fact, had ML used a global $threadTimeout, we would not have needed this thread!
>:(

That fills me with joy. Someone sigged me once for saying that most of the arguments I'd seen against global variables seemed to be religious :)

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Mark Oates

Arguments about globals are religious bam, you suck!

Also, we have already established that despite ML's exemplary use of object inheritance, he has also seen the way and has released his burden of the spaghetti to the way of the global.

Peter Hull

I'm having to work in C++ a bit, and I missed nested methods the other day.

What are you using that does have nested methods? I thought you were a Java person.

These days I think you can use C++11 lambdas to get the effect of nested methods, can't you?

Pete

bamccaig

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Bruce Perry

What are you using that does have nested methods? I thought you were a Java person.

D :)

Lately I've been mostly C#, since we're working with Unity. It's probably at least two years since I really did any Java (except for finishing Confined off).

And no, C# doesn't have nested methods either. Perhaps I feel more comfortable finding ways around it by making classes in C# because there's less boilerplate involved...

Quote:

These days I think you can use C++11 lambdas to get the effect of nested methods, can't you?

You can. I wonder how well or badly it optimises... (Last thing you want is a function pointer call when a normal function call would have sufficed.)

Chris Katko

These days I think you can use C++11 lambdas to get the effect of nested methods, can't you?

The issues there are because they're designed to solve another problem so:

1 - Possible speed issues, as was brought up.

2 - Restriction issues. A lambda can be passed around. A nested function is supposed to never leave.

Gideon Weems

Pop quiz, hot shot! Without looking, which thread has a higher word count? This one or the Zelda/feminism thread?

  This thread:  1618
Zelda debacle:  4155

Bruce Pascoe

Admittedly though, the Zelda thread seems to be generating far more heat than light.

Aaron Bolyard

Pop quiz, hot shot! Without looking, which thread has a higher word count? This one or the Zelda/feminism thread?

Well, that puts it in perspective. You know, I write something and then add some more, stream-of-consciousness-like. Reword, rephrase, restructure... And then I realize I worded something wrong, or something is too vague, so I elaborate a bit more. Repeat that more times than I care to count... And when I proof it, I realize I just wasted up to half an hour (or more, who knows) writing the post. So simply not posting means the half an hour was completely wasted. But while posting means I did something, I also am adding to a pointless conversation... and oh no, it's happening again!

Gideon Weems

Well, that puts it in perspective.

I thought so, too. I also think that it is unfair (perhaps even unreasonable) to write off recent forum activity as low volume. Rather, with longer, more thought-out (sometimes) posts, we are in a golden age of volume.

And I will always be there with one-line zingers when you need them.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Almost to new years, It's already 2016 in the Philippines. I'm celebrating with my wife right now!

jmasterx

ps. I can't see this thread staggering on into 2016, can you?

>:(

Peter Hull

@jmasterx : I'm basing my assertions on GMT. This may be the last post.

jmasterx

Looks like this thread has broken a.cc
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Page 1? Where are you!?

That or M.L broke the site trying to delete this thread ::)

Mark Oates

I get 4 pages
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but I view 50 replies per page
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Bruce Pascoe

He's right, there's literally no Page 1. I figured it was just cutting off the earlier pages due to being so far in (like most forums do), but even go to page 2 and there's still no option to select page 1.

bamccaig

I view unlimited posts per page like a boss. Who has time or patience for replying to multiple pages when your machine has billions and billions of bytes of working memory? >:(

Mark Oates

Ok, so I was trolling online to look for a gif of a person scrolling a mouse over and over...

...but then I found this actual picture of Thomas Fjellstrom in the Philippines right now:
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;D;D;D

so yea, that was way better. ;D

bamccaig

:D

jmasterx

@jmasterx : I'm basing my assertions on GMT. This may be the last post.

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>:(

MiquelFire

I only have 2 pages myself. Too lazy to see how many posts per page I have my settings at. Mine is set to 100 posts. Also, it seems the compact header eats the pages.

jmasterx

Honestly, the first 2 pages of this thread were not that great. I'm glad they are gone.
609988

Thomas Fjellstrom

...but then I found this actual picture of Thomas Fjellstrom in the Philippines right now:

;D!

GullRaDriel

Plop ! ;D

Happy new year everyone ^^

Gideon Weems

2016 is already off to a great start with that picture of Thomas in the Philippines.

Aaron Bolyard

Today I was seeing how much longer a goal in an MMO, RuneScape, I play would take. I kill a particular monster over and over (that's pretty all I do on the game, actually...). I'd like to get some of my stats (defence/constitution/magic/range) to the "max virtual level" and also get the max xp possible in another (summoning). Pretty pointless, actually...

But anyway, I'd have to kill ~47,000 more of this particular monster. I'd say I'm probably one of the most talented RuneScapers when it comes to efficiently killing said monster, but it would take me at least 300 hours... Assuming I play 2 hours a week (which would actually be above average), that would be just around three years.

To cut to the chase, will this thread be open in three years? Better yet, will the internet as we know it exist in three years :o?

Who knows.

(But I wouldn't be surprised if season 7 of Game of Thrones will be airing and while The Winds of Winter will still be but a dream...).

Bruce Perry

You still play RuneScape? ;D

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Uh oh. I'm now in the Zelda thread, listening to the first video. That's today gone ;)

Dennis

HNY!

Chris Katko

But anyway, I'd have to kill ~47,000 more of this particular monster. I'd say I'm probably one of the most talented RuneScapers when it comes to efficiently killing said monster, but it would take me at least 300 hours... Assuming I play 2 hours a week (which would actually be above average), that would be just around three years.

Somehow... my 50 hours in Skyrim so far feel a thousand times more productive than that.

It's basically a novel... or series of novels... in game form. You enter a town and feel immediately overwhelmed because just talking to everyone and GETTING all the quests will probably take an hour.

But if you need that kind of deep escapism, man, it really fits the bill and I'm thankful one company bothers to make games like that. I've seen a few indie games make a mechanical depth like that, e.g. Dwarf Fortress, but certainly never a game that was a polished modern 3-D experience AND that insane amount of lore and gameplay variety/depth.

And with the insane level of modding support, and huge mod community, people have really fixed many of the problems with the game and help you tune it to "your own game" in major ways. People have customized literally everything in the game and replaced major modules There's a Thief 2: Metal Age mod that adds blackjack/knockouts, water, fire and even rope arrows, and more. I'm going to try that out after I beat it.

The mod community spends tens of thousands of man-hours into improving and adding to the game. I'm blown away. Most "good" mods have over 2,000 man-hours in them. I can't imagine putting that much effort into a mod. I mean, could you imagine how insane it would be to have that many people, that dedicated, to adding to YOUR game? That would be such an honor.

Aaron Bolyard

Somehow... my 50 hours in Skyrim so far feel a thousand times more productive than that.

I've spent over 100x as long playing RuneScape (i.e., over 5000 hours) since I started playing around later summer of 2004. A lot of that was spent multitasking, admittedly, on more AFK things (e.g., training a skill while programming--I learned to program while playing RuneScape, haha).

The monster I kill (Tormented Demons) is more like meditation/relaxing than actually doing anything productive. Pretty much a way to pass time when there's nothing else I can/will do. Otherwise I would probably be staring at a wall or something even less productive... At least I'm working towards some virtual goal, I suppose, that can be tracked and has an end.

It seems the good parts of RuneScape have waned, though. It had some of the best quests and storylines of any MMO (well, in my opinion) all the way back in 2004, but lately quests have gotten more predictable and less diverse. "While Guthix Sleeps" and "Ritual of the Mahjarrat" were simply amazing--worthy of games on their own--and older quests like "Underground Pass" had flaws but were still great...

Oh well. The portions of the game I stick to are still pretty neat, and if I had more patience/time I'd enjoy other aspects of it yet still (some of the newer quests are locked behind various requirements I can't be bothered to obtain).

Like I said, a play a few hours a week at most nowadays. Sometimes I regain interest and spend a couple hours a day, but that's not so common anymore.

Mark Oates

And with the insane level of modding support, and huge mod community, people have really fixed many of the problems with the game and help you tune it to "your own game" in major ways.

What are the main core mechanics of these types of games? That is, games that people want to contribute their time to expanding?

bamccaig

I enjoyed the free parts of Runescape back in the day. I actually got to level 30 or something at one point. No clue if my account still exists. I think I went by something like "seffir auth" or something like that on my latest account. The game was always a subscription trap though. I don't know who can afford those fees, but it isn't me (I have no idea what it costs today). Most of the time you were just painfully grinding collecting resources, crafting, selling, and on and on... It required way too much time to make progress and nothing was ever particularly interesting. It was a nice way to kill time between classes back in the mid 00's though.

Aaron Bolyard
bamccaig said:

The game was always a subscription trap though. I don't know who can afford those fees

It was $5 a month when I started paying in 2005 (I still pay $5 because of grandfathered rates). That's $60 a year, which is the price of a standard console game. The rate is higher now ($90 a year or $9.49 a month). Nowadays you can use in-game money to buy bonds (from players who spent real-life money on said bonds), so technically you don't have to pay real-life money anymore, just in-game time ;).

(It's 24 bonds for a year of membership, and bonds are currently 12m gp per, so 288m gp in total. I make... 7m gp/hr at Tormented Demons on average [since the drops are RNG, but common enough to allow for a nice average like that in a reasonable time], so ~40 hours of moneymaking in game. Though even here in USAland normal membership rate of $90 a year would take 13 hours of a minimum wage job, making the in-game method more expensive by proxy...)

Bruce Pascoe

so technically you don't have to pay real-life money anymore, just in-game time

Wow. I can't imagine how that would ever be sustainable from a business standpoint...

Aaron Bolyard

Wow. I can't imagine how that would ever be sustainable from a business standpoint...

A player has to buy the bonds and sell them to another player though, that's why it's still profitable :P. It's actually more profitable; the 24 bonds gives Jagex (the RuneScape developer) $143.76, while a year of membership is at most $113.88 (and as low as $60, assuming you have grandfathered rates). So Bob buys 5 bonds for $30 and sells them to random players for 60m gp, random players use bonds for membership without using real life money, and still Jagex comes out ahead.

Mark Oates

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MiquelFire

The post will mostly be gone by the time some of you even read this, but let it be known that this thread has gotten spam!

[edit] Actually, I'm wondering how the site handle new user profiles, as I noticed that the post doesn't appear in their profile.

Peter Hull

It had to be this thread, didn't it?

Bruce Pascoe

Aww, I was hoping the thread would die off after Mark's post for irony's sake. But no, some spammer just HAD to discover it...

Andrei Ellman

It seems a tad suspicious that this thread ... of all threads, would be where spam was posted. Maybe it's a sockpuppet account and contains a coded message. I've made only a minimalistic attempt to decipher it, but if we treat 233 2316 803 10 as a sequence of unicode characters, in hex, we get E9 90C 323 A, which gives us "éऌ ̣◙" (the last character is actually a linefeed, but I used the codepage 437 equivalent).

AE.

jmasterx

I bet this is ML in disguise trying to make the point that if the thread had closed when it appropriately should have then the spam would have never been able to be posted ::)

If this were a real spammer, Matts precogs would have caught it well ahead of time...

Elias

Can I be the computer operator?

bamccaig

He's fighting the good fight of keeping this thread going which is really all that matters. >:(

Mark Oates
bamccaig said:

He's fighting the good fight of keeping this thread going which is really all that matters. >:(

;D

MiquelFire

Wow, I'm amazed that spam message was kept so long.

GullRaDriel

The spam is still here, it's part of the topic now ^^

Bruce Perry

So who wants to try the e-mail address out?

I fancy being a Security men and Women.

Johan Halmén

Monty Python is way funnier than Monty Java.

Bruce Perry
 ||
c_)
 o<
<_)

Gideon Weems

Aw, the real spam is gone now. I'm going to miss it.

No!  Don't stomp on teh ducky!!
 ||
c_)
     o<
 →  <_)

Dennis

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Peter Hull

Can I just interrupt the ASCII art to grumble about CMake?

Here it is:

*Grumble*

Thank you, please carry on.

Aaron Bolyard

Can I just interrupt the ASCII art to grumble about CMake?

That's why I use Premake. Simple, small, and still powerful. And it actually has a good scripting language (Lua).

(Premake5 doesn't work on FreeBSD, though, which is a bit of a bother. Going to have to get around to contributing to Premake after using it for so many years... That would be pretty neat, actually.)

Bruce Pascoe

Hehe, that ducky is totally about to get eaten by a lion. Um... yummy? ;D

bamccaig

Duckies can be assholes; and tasty:

video

MiquelFire

This topic was about to die, so here's a story:

I got a Nexus 6 through AT&T back in March. All was good during that time. Come October, Android 6 (Marshmallow) came out, I never got it. November, I get some Lollipop update to apply November security patches, but no Marshmallow, December, same thing. Just before the December update, I found out that if you use a Nexus 6 on AT&T's network (including the MVNOs) you'll end up on a upgrade path that forces you to stay with Lollipop, while everyone else with a Nexus 6 is running Marshmallow.

At some point (first week of January), I did an OEM unlock with the plan to manually flash Marshmallow. Never got around to it because the hassle of doing that (it does a factory wipe) with the backups, I got lazy on doing that. I did however root my device so I can kill of the annoying AT&T boot animation. (Actually, it was more annoying that I had a password required to unlock my phone on boot, so every boot had me hear that sound twice!)

Yesterday, AT&T finally allowed an OTA patch from the December Lollipop to the December Marshmallow (the week before, everyone else got a January update to Marshmallow, so AT&T is still behind, but at least the build is what everyone else got).

Oh but wait, I rooted my phone, since Lollipop, the OTA update actually checks the system partition, so having rooted my system, the update would fail. To fix this I just needed to download the factory image, erase the system bit, and reflash it so it would be clean.

The factory images for the Nexus 6 doesn't include the build I was running, so I used the previous build by do that system thing, downloaded the OTA for getting to the build I was at. Nope, something somewhere still had my at the wrong build. The system was at Y, but other stuff it checked for the OTA update said Z (That's the last letter of the build BTW), so I did a complete flash (without wiping the data) to Y, then OTA to Z, then the new OTA yesterday, then I downloaded the OTA to so I would have the latest version of Marshmallow. From now on, I'll download the OTA and manually flash so I'm not stuck on AT&T's schedule.

Once the phone is paid off, I'm switching to Fi.

Bruce Pascoe

Aw dammit, I was hoping the thread would die with bam's duck video...

And yeah, as much as I like Android, that's the one thing I have to say Apple got right with the iPhone: They control the OS, so you can always get updates the day they come out without having to worry about whether your carrier will cooperate. And no carrier-installed bloatware. :)

bamccaig

If they had gotten it right then neither the carrier NOR the vendor would control the OS. The user would control the OS! >:(

MiquelFire

Funny thing, there's actually no carrier bloatware on this phone (Actually, I remember reading that two apps get installed when you activate the phone with a AT&T sim card, but the trigger didn't get fired for some reason when I got the phone, maybe the play store setting to require wi-fi carried over from my old phone)

Actually, if Apple didn't have the power they did, I could see AT&T block iOS updates.

The Nexus 6 might be the last phone that Google allows other carriers to carry, and to use other carriers with the future phones, you have to buy unlocked. (The price tag on the 6 was too high to buy buy through a carrier for me)

bamccaig said:

If they had gotten it right then neither the carrier NOR the vendor would control the OS. The user would control the OS! >:(

I installed Cyanogenmod on an older phone, and I'm tempted to go there (once they have a stable build at least for the Nexus 6... a little nuts that ). The Nexus line does allow for you to install custom OSes actually.

Bruce Pascoe
bamccaig said:

If they had gotten it right then neither the carrier NOR the vendor would control the OS. The user would control the OS! >:(

That requires the OS to be open-source (which Android is, no?). And most users aren't developers, so there would need to be some update channel for laypeople... which the carriers would want to control, and then we'd be back in the same boat as we are with Android.

So given the choice between the two evils (because there's really no third option, the real world being what it is), I'm much more comfortable with the vendor providing immediate OS updates than being filibustered by the carriers.

bamccaig

The problem with the current ecosystem is that installing a custom OS is not supported by carriers or in some cases vendors. It can certainly be done, but it's considered along the lines of "cracking" and essentially AT OWN RISK. The OS is not a developer tool. It's the pattern of signals that makes the useless paperweight into a functioning tool. Microsoft Windows is equivalent. Not only developers get to install it. Anybody can. In practice, most users are oblivious, and only power users and developers usually tinker with that, but the freedom exists (for the most part, at least where it hasn't been surrendered yet).

There's no reason the carrier should care what OS you're running on your phone. The only thing that should matter to them is that you're able to connect to their network and communicate with it. All pretty standard stuff for a handset. There's no legitimate reason that it has to be proprietary or locked down. For additional carrier-specific services you can install an app developed by the carrier by choice if you so desire.

There's also no legitimate reason the OS vendor should be in control of what OS you're running on your phone. They make the software and release it and if you choose to run it then so be it. This is how it should work, and has worked in other markets for decades. It should even go beyond that. Not only the OS, but also the radio firmware should be 100% user-replaceable. I paid $800 for a phone. That should be mine. I should be able to do whatever I want with it, and no other entity should be able to do anything with it that I don't allow. And if I run into difficulties replacing the software I should be able to purchase technical support from the carrier or vendor to get the phone working again.

Bruce Pascoe

On the other hand, suppose everyone is allowed to do all that with no arbitrary restrictions in place... okay fine, but your carrier is now under no obligation to allow you to connect the device to their network as it's out of spec. That's well within their rights, as they own the network.

For the sake of my sanity, I much prefer having things locked down with a vocal minority railing against it (or hacking their way past it, which if you know what you're doing, is a big part of what makes rooting/jailbreaking/etc. fun), versus half the population effectively soft-bricking their phones and causing a massive uproar because their carrier won't accommodate the modified software. And let's face it, changing your OS isn't exactly for the faint of heart. I wouldn't recommend a layperson to install Windows themselves for example, not even Win10 where that process is pretty much seamless now.

If all this makes a large portion of the population sheep for not questioning such a state of affairs, so be it. I'm a pragmatist. Sheep are much easier to deal with (i.e. ignore) than ravenous werewolves.

bamccaig

On the other hand, suppose everyone is allowed to do all that with no arbitrary restrictions in place... okay fine, but your carrier is now under no obligation to allow you to connect the device to their network as it's out of spec. That's well within their rights, as they own the network.

That's absurd. Think about what you're saying. Should I get kicked off of the Internet because my ISP doesn't control my PC? Should the cable company get to install its own software onto my TV? No. Networks define a protocol and nodes within the network communicate using the protocol. There's no benefit to the protocol being proprietary. That will only increase the odds of vulnerabilities and abuse. It has no practical use. With an open protocol defined its trivial for any skilled individual to program a device to communicate with the network. And if that node happens to misbehave the network can signal an error and terminate the connection. It has to do this anyway because nothing would stop Alice from plugging an unauthorized device into the network and misbehaving.

For the sake of my sanity, I much prefer having things locked down with a vocal minority railing against it (or hacking their way past it, which if you know what you're doing, is a big part of what makes rooting/jailbreaking/etc. fun), versus half the population effectively soft-bricking their phones and causing a massive uproar because their carrier won't accommodate the modified software. And let's face it, changing your OS isn't exactly for the faint of heart. I wouldn't recommend a layperson to install Windows themselves for example, not even Win10 where that process is pretty much seamless now.

It's not really about every individual having the skills to customize their device. It's about every individual having the right and freedom to do what they want with their own property. They may be able to do that themselves, or they may have to hire a third party to do that, but the freedom to do so is good for everybody.

If all this makes a large portion of the population sheep for not questioning such a state of affairs, so be it. I'm a pragmatist. Sheep are much easier to deal with (i.e. ignore) than ravenous werewolves.

I think that you're completely in the dark about what government agencies and corporations are doing behind your back. They are able to hack into iOS devices nearly 100% of the time and Droids nearly 50% of the time. Windows is equally weak. You are essentially being watched and manipulated by nefarious characters against your will, at your cost, and for their gain. There's nothing good about the "locked down" state of affairs. The vendors are lazy, relying on security by obscurity, leaving you and your family vulnerable; while your own property fails to function in a way that is most beneficial to you and you're nearly powerless to do anything about it. Open your damn eyes and mind.

Bruce Pascoe
bamccaig said:

Open your damn eyes and mind.

I see this line all the time in one form or another, and I find it not only patronizing but presumptuous. It suggests the person just hasn't done their research and would come around and "see the light" if they just opened their eyes to The Truth(tm). The funny thing is, that's exactly the same thinking that drives religious fervor (the exact opposite of being open-minded). "My worldview is right, and you're all just too blind to see it." It's a stupid argument, like people that blithely call iPhone users "sheep" because they happen to prefer the more popular option. You will never win an argument with me that way.

My eyes are open. I'm one of the most open-minded people I know. I know the NSA and similar agencies exist. I know what they do. I just don't see it as the big issue everyone makes it out to be, given the real-world evidence in front of me. The world isn't as scary a place as everyone makes it out to be. The planet keeps turning anyway, none the worse for wear.

Open-minded people don't try to win converts. They work with the hand they're given.

Anyway, I think that's enough politics for this topic. Here everyone, have an eaty pig:
{"name":"687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f763563514874562e6a7067","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/2\/62a331b0e02880bd5b1fc8a3df52095b.jpg","w":1023,"h":682,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/2\/62a331b0e02880bd5b1fc8a3df52095b"}687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f763563514874562e6a7067

Peter Hull
bamccaig

My girlfriend literally scrolls through Facebook on her phone "liking". Every. Single. Post. Rapid fire. Like 1 per second. She insists that she reads them, and she does read very fast, but there's just not that much likable content... It's absolutely stupid. Which is exactly why I don't go anywhere near those services.

Bruce Perry

Ooh, this is promising - the fighting posts might push our word count a bit higher so we can compete with the Zelda thread :)

On the downside, I couldn't face reading them all ;D

MiquelFire

I read a few of them, but there was too much wording for stuff that is pointless fighting.

Edgar Reynaldo

Anymore, when I see posts that big I instantly go into skim or skip mode. :-/

Bruce Pascoe

I gave up myself--it was indeed pointless, so I ended it preemptively with an eaty pig. See bottom of my last post. :)

Derezo

Whoa.. I've been asleep while this thread exploded or something.

Bruce Pascoe

Eh, more of a fizzle than a proper explosion. :P

Mark Oates

Dedicated to all the threads that were locked before their time:

video

:'(

Gideon Weems

The heat death of Google Code happens in less than 10 days.

Peter Hull

From the comments in the post that GW linked:

Quote:

It's like watching Geocities go away.

True. Who here remembers Geocities? I had a website there, can't remember why or what was on it.

Gideon Weems

Who here remembers Geocities?

At one time, the Geocities domain comprised at least 10% of my bookmarks... and yet, the Internet felt less centralized back then.

jmasterx

I made a geocities website when I was in 5th grade! Back in 2002. It was a very basic html page that had some of my friends' names on it.

Then everyone started playing Runescape >:(

Bruce Pascoe

I love how all the comments on the Google Code shutdown post are whiny "noooo please don't do this think of all the projects that will be lost! Waaaahh!!" If it's a project that anyone at all cares about (i.e. Someone actually uses it), there's bound to be copies floating around. And since they're open source...

Bruce Perry

You're telling me the Google code has been available all this time?!

{"name":"XWOuu8G.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/d\/edb3615168441f72356fc7c1a6ca71b9.gif","w":480,"h":360,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/d\/edb3615168441f72356fc7c1a6ca71b9"}XWOuu8G.gif

Bruce Pascoe

The "*boosh* mind blown" meme really annoys me now for some reason... I guess because TV advertisers have picked up on it, which is usually around the time memes earn "dead horse" status. :P

Gideon Weems

I've never seen it before, and I like it. Maybe I'm not Internet enough.

Bruce Perry

I'm so glad we have the BBC ;)

Niunio
Quote:

I'm so glad we have the BBC ;)

We don't. :'(
<edit>
I must to say it again:

Matt, threads locks too soon. I can't log-in as much as I want, an I miss the chance to answer or comment a lot of stuff. :'(

Bruce Perry

Hi Niunio :) Ò¿Ó¬Que pasa?

I wonder if it makes sense for the BBC to receive its licence fee in more of a 'pay wall' kind of way, and for international viewers to be allowed to pay it too. The caveat could be that the BBC is British and we probably want it to feel pressure to appeal to Brits first and foremost, which may change if their funding came from the whole world. But the main thing for me is that they remain ad-free :)

~ ~ ~ INTERMISSION ~ ~ ~

Anyway, this thread reminded me to update you all!

Once I took PayPal to the Financial Ombudsman, I received a message from PayPal's Office of Executive Escalations. Made my day :)

video

They then took the whole four weeks that they were allowed to take, but finally offered me the £30 I wanted "in full and final resolution". I've accepted that. It's good that they didn't try and re-process the original transaction, because the exchange rates have gone in Japan's favour and I would have lost out by a further £15 at least (or when I look today, a further £70 nearly!).

Just goes to show - if you feel there was genuine unfairness at work (you're not just trying to fight for the sake of it), it's worth fighting these things ;)

I also reminded them that adjusting their systems to offer the choice of funding source with each payment would ingratiate them towards customers and increase their user base, helping everyone, especially in today's world where it's never been easier to warn other consumers. I mentioned to them that even Ryanair are making an effort ;D They thanked me for the feedback.

AirBNB do not fall under the Financial Ombudsman's jurisdiction, so... well... that fight hasn't been had. But that was more of a meta-fight. You know, an "I've just realised I'm behaving like a social justice warrior" kind of fight. :o

GullRaDriel

Tu shal not lok ! >:(

Chris Katko

Fus Roh Dah?!

Actually, I wonder what a dragon shout would sound like with a question mark on the end.

Bruce Perry

It probably results in the post, err, person of your choice being violently summoned right in front of you :)

Bruce Pascoe

It causes the dragon to be eaten by the pig from the other topic. Dragons are eaty, and the pig doesn't like competition.

Gideon Weems

The ./ article on the new Linux trojan has a really good comment section, for those of you with a few minutes to burn.

Derezo

The other day I updated a package and it gave me a warning about the root directory having ownership permissions.

I'm glad I didn't throw a -R in there whenever I ran sudo chown bill:www-data /.

>_<

Mark Oates

{"name":"610069","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/a\/aaae45b1fb0373345b2a15a35dd3aab8.jpg","w":420,"h":316,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/a\/aaae45b1fb0373345b2a15a35dd3aab8"}610069

GullRaDriel

Damn too soon bordel de dieu !

Edit: sweet, the slang hider doesn't work for French, haha ^^

Gideon Weems

If you stare at his facial hair long enough, you start making things out. I saw a robot.

GullRaDriel

Blender ! ;D

Peter Hull

It's occurred to me that I don't know what my handwriting looks like any more. I scrawl down things in my work notebook etc. but I haven't written out a full page of anything (like a school essay) for years.

Anyone else do 'writing' regularly?

MiquelFire

Not me.

bamccaig

I went for years without writing anything by hand. When I picked up a pen for the first time in years my hand began to hurt after only a few words (this was a few years back). I began incorporating note taking into my job and now do a little bit more of that (typically I try to write down what I'm working on and any reminders for the future). I still cannot write anywhere near as long as I have in the past, but it's better. My neatness has also improved since that first time back in the saddle, but I must slow down and consciously try to keep things neat if I don't want it to be sloppy (even so, as my hand gets tired/cramped things just become a barely legible scribble).

All of this is using block letters ("printing," as I was taught in school). I do not write in cursive format anymore. I have always preferred writing in block letters. It's neater and easier to read, IMO. It may not be quite as efficient or easy on the hands though. I'm not sure.

In my youth, a childhood friend and I used to compete with each other to write the smallest in grade 5 where we used to have to write 500-word journal entries in cursive format every day. We used to manage to write very tiny, but still neat. The teacher would review each entry and mark them for neatness and who remembers what else. She used to joke (maybe?) that she needed a magnifying glass to read our writing. I miss that. :-/

Gideon Weems

I had award-winning handwriting as a youngster, but the majority of my writing is done through vim now.

Bruce Perry

I do write by hand sometimes, and I haven't noticed my writing go downhill - or at least if it did, I was able to fix it quite quickly :)

Did this thread slow down because the religious one started? That's it - superstar4410 is trying to DoS our thread! Time for a witch hunt :)

Elias
bamccaig said:

When I picked up a pen for the first time in years my hand began to hurt after only a few words

I experienced the same - I had to fill out a lot of forms when applying for my green card, after not having written anything by hand in years. And my hand was hurting after every single form :P

Now the extent of handwriting I do is sign credit card bills. In Europe I only ever used my CC online so never had to sign, so this is new to me. Over here I pay everything with CC, can't even remember when I last needed to use cash. However my signature has degenerated into one straight line and an i dot for my first name and another straight line with an i dot for my last name - so probably doesn't really count as hand-writing.

Gideon Weems

Did this thread slow down because the religious one started?

I noticed the correlation, as well.

This thread has reminded me that I should apply for a virtual debit card. They are the bee's knees. Generate a temporary credit card number, use it once, and burn it.

Johan Halmén

I think one should every once in a while write one page of handwriting. I bet it's good for the brain.

Bruce Pascoe
Quote:

brain

*zombie shambles by* BRRrrrrraaaAAAIIIiiNNNnssss!!! *munch* (the zombie gets eaten by the pig)

MiquelFire

I think the pig is a virus now. Or would it be a worm?

Mark Oates

is a virus now. Or would it be a worm?

It's a pig. ;D

MiquelFire

Oink Oink!

Bruce Pascoe

Remember: If you hear the oink, it's already too late. 🐽

Bruce Perry

And 24 hours later, here we are again, good as new :)

GullRaDriel

Each morning, the sun is here.

MiquelFire

Ow! It burns! Close the drapes!

Chris Katko

My handwriting has always been generally poor. I never had any proper schooling growing up and I never wrote an essay until college. Older gents here will even remember that Allegro.CC taught me a great deal of grammar initially. My First Posts Actually Were Written Entirely Like This with completely wrong apostophes, it's/its/there/their/they're and so on. People like X-G and Miran yelled at me which encouraged me to improve.

Anyhow, I love that our society doesn't give a crap about cursive anymore and even handwriting is less essential. However, I'd still like to improve my handwriting... there's something elegant and professional about writing well, and worse still, something uncivilized and unintelligent about someone who cannot write legibly.

I became much better during my college days with all the required writing but it's still far from average. Thing is... I'm not really sure how to do it. Do I buy a book? Are books useful? Do I watch Youtube videos? I don't know. It seems like one of those "hands on" kind of skills where a teacher would be very helpful. It's a practiced skill with a finesse to it, as opposed to a remembered factoid or concept that one can simply Google.

Bruce Perry

As kids at school, we must have started with precision. There are specific directions to draw all the strokes, and specific rules for which letters to join up and how to do it, and there are some obvious things to aim for (e.g. line up the tops and bottoms of letters), but otherwise, we just went slowly and got the shapes absolutely right. After that, we just found our own ways to speed up, and some did better than others. I wouldn't say my handwriting is anything special - neither good nor bad.

However, when I wanted to, I did write a little bit like this, using special pens:

{"name":"d1a6c238-e898-4766-849f-914b54ac0956.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/a\/6a8562c9638f211298a2b1bd9a44dd40.png","w":1024,"h":714,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/a\/6a8562c9638f211298a2b1bd9a44dd40"}d1a6c238-e898-4766-849f-914b54ac0956.png

For example I did this on the fronts of some of my exercise books. I can probably find and scan an actual example later, but it's too late now ;)

bamccaig

We learned to write neatly in school because if we didn't we'd have to do it all over again. :o If you go slow it's not very difficult to write legibly. Especially with practice. If you write daily you get lots of practice. It all comes down to taking your time. It's hard to do that when you have to write lots in a short amount of time, but if you just want to improve the quality then you can define the quantity to match.

Bruce Perry

By the way, we had sessions once where we took a single letter and wrote a whole joined-up line of them. Can't hurt to practise that way if you want to :)

jmasterx

I recently noticed that Google Inc now provides the certificate for google.com
{"name":"610142","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/c\/ec67a8e84923b3335f2918c7f46d1a5d.png","w":360,"h":76,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/c\/ec67a8e84923b3335f2918c7f46d1a5d"}610142
So... isn't that technically a self signed certificate :o

MiquelFire

Google became a CA at some point. That's all.

bamccaig

Still sounds like self-signing to me. >:(

anto80

This is really weird.
Thread https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/615908 got locked although last update was on 02-02-2016 11:07

>:( >:( >:(
WHY?

Peter Hull

I think it's the last post date (28th Jan in your case) rather than the last revision date (2nd Feb) :(

[edit] Also I think the 'Just Bored' thread has some potential to be long-lived.
also - has this thread really been running since September?

MiquelFire

Have you been using the send to top feature? That might reset the date that auto lock threads.

anto80

My bad I only edited the post this time, and not used the "send to top" feature... :/

The thread lock reaper is merciless

Johan Halmén

Oink Oink!

Magic Oink
593914.png

Bruce Perry

Has anyone linked to the pig thread yet, to aid historians in their investigation when we're all famous?

Here we go.

;D

Gideon Weems

I have been watching the pig thread closely, for adding it to my list of awesome threads. Its fate rests upon the edge of a sword...

Niunio

I don't understand what happens with the pig. Is it an English joke or something? ???

May be I should ask this in the proper thread.

Bruce Pascoe
Niunio said:

I don't understand what happens with the pig.

What happens is: You get eaten by it. ;)

GullRaDriel

I eat the pig, fools ! >:(

Bruce Pascoe

The pig begs to differ.

🐽 *MUNCH*

Great job Gull, you attracted the pig into this thread. :'(

Mark Oates

We should lead the pig all the way to mother Russia. In mother Russia, YOU EATS PIG!

bamccaig

Mark Oates wins the thread. :D

Bruce Perry

The other thread, yes ;) No one should ever win this one.

GullRaDriel

It's still running foes ;-)

MiquelFire

It's still running foes ;-)

Why do you have to make enemies here?

Aaron Bolyard

Yesterday, I used a neat little tool I made to capture the mesh/scene data in a game I play. My brother was curious about a certain area in the game but it wouldn't be worth his time to get to said area.

I thought it would be nice to update said tool to capture "3D screenshots." After capturing the scene, it would be trivial to view the scene and, say, move the camera or adjust aspects--well, until I realized the game in question was an exception to how games actually render. Most games use custom shaders to do any rendering, so while I could capture the rendering calls to later reconstruct the frame/scene, I'd only be able to render such scenes as-is. No way to change the camera or much of anything else...

Fixed function OpenGL was pretty nice for that, I suppose... Grr, programmable hardware!

(I suppose a plug-in architecture of sorts that would modify resources based on specific games could work, but that's pointless. You'd have to have an understanding of the game's specific rendering capabilities [or be able to examine the rendering calls to figure it out], which simply not something the overwhelming majority of people who actually would use such a tool would know...)

Niunio

@Aaron Bolyard: Get the depth-buffer and the color-buffer, then use it to create a voxel-map or a heightmap and render it. It's not perfect but it may work.

Gideon Weems

Today's holiday was brought to you by the number 1 and the gcc option -msingle-exit.

bamccaig

Relevant.

{"name":"boobs.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/3\/c38c083023dc375e143ad37f2fdc540f.jpg","w":480,"h":486,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/3\/c38c083023dc375e143ad37f2fdc540f"}boobs.jpg

Always relevant.

GullRaDriel

Miquel: I misused the word. I had folks in mind and foes appeared :-/

Bruce Perry

That mistake dates back to the earliest foelore.

GullRaDriel

Man I'm not that old and I'm only here since a few 12.3 years ;-)
Edit: I sure made some improvements and it's due to that particular forum, where trolls are troller than everywhere. ;D

Bruce Perry

Criticising you was the opposite of what I was even thinking of. I was just playing with the word 'folklore' :)

Gideon Weems

I have a car again. It has been about a year... How are you supposed to use these things again?

Mark Oates

I haven't driven in 4 years. Totally know what you mean.

Niunio
GullRaDriel

Everything is going fine Bruce, no worry ;-)

Elias

I haven't driven in 4 years. Totally know what you mean.

Where do you live? I want to move there! Right now I have to endure the hell of Columbus downtown traffic twice every single day and it's killing me :(

Mark Oates

Toronto :)

Before that I was in Macau.

I recommend both places. :)

Bruce Perry

I regularly have to endure traffic too - by which I mean being a pedestrian or a cyclist in an environment where these smelly brutes are constantly threatening me with their incessant roars, and I can't even relieve the stress by taking a deep breath because of the 'smelly' part. There are islands here and there where cars are banned, and I might have to move to one of those when circumstances permit ;)

Elias

where these smelly brutes are constantly threatening me

Haha, that's exactly what I think of cars. I really miss the time when I would take a train to work. But for some reason I cannot even begin to understand they dismantled the Columbus train station about 20 years ago and removed all passenger trains. Now it's cars and only cars to get anywhere :(

Neil Roy

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Mark Oates
Elias said:

I really miss the time when I would take a train to work.

Love public transit. I take it each day to work, and each day I get on during rush hour. Both the subway car and street car that I have to get on are completely packed... like... you're standing literally right next to everybody.

Something like this every day.
{"name":"packed-bus-home-1263x560.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/0\/c0414503712ef1bd91f260c2144010f2.jpg","w":1263,"h":560,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/0\/c0414503712ef1bd91f260c2144010f2"}packed-bus-home-1263x560.jpg

But I still prefer it to driving. No contest. :)

Quote:

Now it's cars and only cars to get anywhere :(

America. :-/

Combine that automobile lifestyle with health care costs, student loan debt, TV advertising, unhealthy food, and locked cell phones, and that makes up all the reasons I never want to go back. And Americans are so proud of their cars, too. Sales of Hummers spiked up when the cost of oil dropped. It's just stupid.

You should come to Canada. ;)

Gideon Weems

Also, Canada is one of the few places that benefits from global warming.

bamccaig

Canada does not benefit from global warming... >:( It's likely going to ruin this beautiful land that we live on for decades if not centuries, and probably will turn the entire planet towards violent wars fighting for remaining resources...

I never got a chance to experience Toronto's public transit because I was only in the city for hours or a night each time, but I can say that the city itself seems like a terrible place to live. At least, downtown. It smelled like shit on the street, literally. That improved once you headed North though.

Taxi drivers were crazy. And from the looks of things, subways/trains only covered a tiny fraction of the city so you would be forced to resort to buses and maybe "street cars" (I have no idea what the street car routes are like, but I didn't notice any tracks outside of downtown).

It was an exciting place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. You'd have to pay me handsomely to do it... Let alone to raise a family there. Jesus.

I love driving. I can understand hating driving if you live in a major city area where traffic is crazy. In my city it's not that bad. Lots of bad drivers, but you can generally avoid them if you're careful (knock on wood). I'm not opposed to public transit. I think it makes a lot of sense to poor resources and share the energy. However, I don't want to spend an hour or two commuting to work every day either, let alone jumping between rides to get there because a particular mechanism doesn't go all the way. I think it would also bother me being surrounded by so many people. I mean, people can be great, but as great as they can be they can also be unbearable and you can be stuck dealing with them every single day.

As an aside, another really fun way to drive, albeit more dangerous, is riding a motorcycle. Again, you don't want to do this where it's ridiculously complex or busy like Toronto. But it's a lot of fun.

Mark, depending on your personality you may love it more in Northern Ontario. It's quieter. There's less to do, and public transit is much less, but there's also clean air and treeeees. Driving isn't so bad up here. It's the best way to get around. I drive about 8 minutes to work each way. For the most part, that is all the driving I have to do on a daily basis with small exceptions for beer, gas, groceries, and the occasional shopping trip or visit. Most things near my apartment so I rarely have to go far. I can cross the city in 15-20 minutes. I ride my motorcycle to work in the summer, and also for leisure occasionally on various routes in or out of the city (there is a shortage of good motorcycle roads, but we make due).

Well, maybe big city life is perfect for you. And that's great. I don't think I could do it. For anybody else considering Canada, Toronto is the exception, not the rule. Toronto is the least Canadian place I've been to in Canada (which isn't saying much, I've only been in Ontario, but I digress). They don't even have gravy in their fucking restaurants, let alone poutine. >:( >:( >:(

Random example of driving in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario (short drive to get beer, but few intersections suck...).

video

There are several more videos of my riding my motorcycle that will show you what it's like in other parts of the city, but even our most busy intersection isn't all that bad.

Neil Roy

Man made global warming = hoax.

video

Also, how in the heck does a thread about thread locking turn into a global warming debate?!?! LMAO... you guys...

Edgar Reynaldo
Neil Roy said:

Man made global warming = hoax.

Way to give yourself credibility. RU SRS? Have you ever seen a chart of the CO2 levels in the industrial age? Do you understand that CO2 traps heat? Do you understand that makes it warmer?

Neil Roy

Way to give yourself credibility. RU SRS? Have you ever seen a chart of the CO2 levels in the industrial age? Do you understand that CO2 traps heat? Do you understand that makes it warmer?

Watch that video, it answers all of that, from credible scientists. And yes, it has a CO2 chart and much more.

bamccaig

Wow, 1600 views since 2011? Obviously a very well received video. We all know the most credible videos disable likes/dislikes too. :P It appears the comments are enabled, but they must be heavily policed because there's zero in 5 years...

Append:

Wikpedia seems to do a decent job of casting doubt on its credibility for us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle

Bruce Perry

It's all right. The bible says global warming can't be an issue, if you know where to look.

There, that should keep the thread going for a while :)

MiquelFire

Too lazy to make a topic for this, but Alex!

https://vimeo.com/129070031

Gideon Weems

Nice find! The Pocket CHIP itself doesn't look so shabby, either.

MiquelFire

I can't wait to get mine.

Mark Oates
Gideon Weems

If I ever come back to the boards after a busy, miserable life without A.cc, and this thread is locked, you guys all suck.

Johan Halmén

Donald Trump is the best that has happened to Democrats.

Mark Oates

I find it impossible that he could win at all. Completely unelectable to anybody who's a Democrat.

The fact that he's "legitimate" says a lot about our country, though.

Look at em, they're already falling in line: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/26/christie_endorsement_of_trump_shakes_up_gop_primary_129800.html

GullRaDriel

I just bought a trump (tuba) . A good one, not a Donald Trump ;D

{"name":"610218","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/9\/b9a8ee750bdab37dd640a5425326e373.jpg","w":3120,"h":4160,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/9\/b9a8ee750bdab37dd640a5425326e373"}610218

By the way, threads are locking too soon !!

>:(

Johan Halmén

We should play something together. I have an E♭ tuba at home. And a trombone.

Mark Oates

That's a Baritone! Hey that's not a bad one, Besson makes good horns. :)

GullRaDriel

Tomorow the internet provider come to put my cable. Maybe in some few weeks I will have a reliable connection, and then play with you all :-D

I played it a few during the day. It's smooth and enjoyable. It's in MiB. My neighborhood told me they hear the tuba more than the trump ^^

Got if for 430 euros. It's a bit used instruments, and the carrying box has lived too, but it still plays good and was affordable.

EDIT: if you have some good and for average player sheets for tuba in MiB, I will happily take them away :-P

Johan Halmén
Mark Oates

You shouldn't search for tuba, should do "Euphonium" or "Baritone".

Johan Halmén

A baritone in Eb? The tuba I have is in Eb, though it has a 4th valve, which Gull's horn hasn't.

In Finland, tenor horns, baritone horns and euphoniums are in Bb. Tubas are in Eb. Some are in Bb (an octave below the baritone), and rarely in C.

edit

I just checked what Wikipedia says. Seems euphonium is the largest Bb horn, with an additional 4th valve. Baritone is narrower but still Bb and usually 3 valve. Tenor is higher, in Eb. As I mentioned, in Finland, baritone, tenor and euphonium are all same Bb horns, but with different bore. Baritone in Finland is what euphonium in USA is, I think.

Bruce Perry

I was wondering how you measure a tuba in mebibytes :)

video

Johan Halmén

Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones bought a French tuba. In MiB.

GullRaDriel

Thanks Johan. That's rocking information :-D

Mark Oates

It looks to me like a good ole Bb Baritone Horn. Even though I'm 99% sure, I can't know exactly unless I had the model number?

It plays in the same range and clef(s) as a Trombone. So you could just as easily search for music for Trombone. You'll find a lot more literature under Trombone. :)

Tuba parts read in the same clef, but the range is much lower.

GullRaDriel

Mark, are you asking my tuba or Johan's one serial number?

Johan Halmén

Our baritonist only reads treble cleff. Only the French hornist reads any cleff in any transposing key. His pupil, a young girl, reads pretty well both Eb and F scores. I've only learnt to play trombone bass cleff parts on a baritone sax.

GullRaDriel

What's the problem reading sheets ? I don't understand. I read sheets on the same key the instrument I use is. Else I made a transposition.

Our saxe is in MiB, my trump is in SiB en the piano and the guitar in DO
Playing the tuba will be easier as I'll not have to transcode common parts, it's a MiB.

In short, I have a Sib and a Mib at disposition to help.

Johan Halmén

The Bb baritone/euphonium parts in an orchestra score might be written in non transposing bass clef or in transposing treble clef. The alto horn parts might be written in Eb or F, Eb for alto horn and F for French horn. In our orchestra we have only one baritone horn, which is common in smaller wind bands. But we have four alto horns, actually two Eb altos and two F French horns. The best sheet music providers provide all sorts of parts. Non transposing tuba in bass clef, transposing tuba in treble clef, either for Bb tuba or for Eb tuba, both Eb and F alto parts, and the both kind of parts for the baritone/euphonium. But then again, some providers only provide say F alto parts. That's when I have to rewrite the parts and transpose them for the two Eb alto horn players, who don't transpose on the fly. Whereas the F French horn players are better in transposing. The French horn is a weird double horn instrument. The 4th valve turns it into a Bb horn, same tuning as in the baritone horn.

GullRaDriel

Nice. I have to try that 4 valve thing one of those day. When I'll be better at it ;-p

Chris Katko

Nice. I have to try that 4 valve thing one of those day. When I'll be better at it ;-p

I just had flashbacks to college and trying to come up with new internal combustion engine designs...

Johan Halmén

At the time when 4 valves per cylinder became popular and cars with I6 engines had "24 valve" signs on the rear, my brother had a Citroën 2CV. I thought of getting one of those "24 valve" signs, cut the "2" out an put on the Citroën. He sold the car, which was a shame. He had done great work on it to get it in shape. 2CV is one of the finest cars ever built. Says everyone, who knows it.

Peter Hull

Is Allegro popular in India?

I ask because there are some new members, all from India:

  • Llaldler laldler

  • Cluchom Cluchom

  • Engdelryn Engdelryn

  • Thoocum hoocum

  • Estrothskel strothskel

  • Rhysulnys hysulnys

  • Titonath itonath

GullRaDriel

Man, these looks like generated usernames :-p

EDIT: Johan: I loved 2cv. My dad once had a 'Katar', which was basically a pumped 2cv with 4 motorized tires and a claws gear.

I couldn't find any link in English, but if you love 2cv you have to check these:
- wikipedia about katar: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIFTT_Katar
- facebook page (for photos :-) ) https://www.facebook.com/Katar-4x4-131571083545786/

The one I had was like the one in the following page, and it was a finisher at the real Dakar competition. It had two tanks of oil and water tank for the driver/co driver. It was exactly the same red one as the one in the page. Haaa, souvenirs !!!
Here: http://www.nobug.be/KATAR/Histoire.html

Johan Halmén

Then there was this Picassoesque 2CV:

{"name":"picasso210607_468x296.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/1\/d1f45ac76b164ec1a4cd3f88327f3f37.jpg","w":468,"h":296,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/1\/d1f45ac76b164ec1a4cd3f88327f3f37"}picasso210607_468x296.jpg

GullRaDriel

It's a gorgeous one, nice work !

Johan Halmén

video

GullRaDriel

Good song, and just with coppers ! They really play well.

Gideon Weems

I want that colorful car.

jmasterx

Console > PC

Bruce Perry

Consoul > Console

video

Gideon Weems

That is a masterpiece. I am glad I watched.

Johan Halmén
GullRaDriel

We have to make a band play. I can't record now because it's already 22:46 :-p

Johan Halmén

I should probably play the sax instead, which is my real band instrument. But I happen to like the brass instruments, they are so much fun at the moment. I might do a recording of "Happy Birthday" for tuba and three saxes. And a trombone playing the melody. And I'd play all the instruments.

Years ago we did the Monday song, which turned out to be a great astonishing fun project. With Matthew as the lyricist and solo singer. When will a.cc turn 20?

Peter Hull

I don't remember the Monday song. Have you got a link for it?

Johan Halmén
Peter Hull

W.O.W.! 8-)

Pity that Ron Novy's last post seems to have a dead link.

Johan Halmén

I have most of the material on my old PowerBook.

jmasterx

If we make music, our tempo should always be Allegro.

Mark Oates

Allegro's a good tempo. ;)

GullRaDriel

I'm building allegro5 unstable for win7 with a fresh new mingw install of course.

Mark Oates

I think building Allegro from source it relatively straightforward these days. :). It's the dependencies that can get a bit tedious to go through.

GullRaDriel

I have some few glitches. On linux it was butter. Good night !

Johan Halmén

So what will happen with Trump?

  1. He will win and become president and the whole world will know what USA is made of

  2. He will win pre-elections and the GOP will support him and his rethorics, and after losing the final run, the GOP will be very shattered

  3. He will lose the pre-elections and the republicans will welcome all the Trump supporters to support whomever their second man is

  4. ???

Bruce Perry

5. Profit?

Johan Halmén

Yes, I was going to add that. Trump most sure will profit a lot, no matter what happens.

GullRaDriel

Donald is a Trump'erie.

8-)

Chris Katko

Trump being elected is what the USA needs.

It needs to elect a billionaire independent to prove to the world that the system has been broken for decades.

Once everyone accepts the problem, we can finally start dealing with it.

https://represent.us/action/theproblem-4/

Quote:

“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

Bruce Perry

Let's start by fixing copyright law.

video

Johan Halmén
Quote:

"The preferences of the average American..."

That's a stupid way of putting it. It should read "The preferences of the average of all Americans". One should never talk about one single individual in these cases. Too many people in general have this stupid attitude that "Makes no sense to vote. My vote doesn't count almost at all." The attitude is the attitude of a spoilt child. And if that article really focused on the fact that a majority of voters has no impact on politics (which really is alarming), they should not use the phrases of a spoilt child.

Bruce Perry

While I feel that is a bit of an inconsequential nitpick, I am very glad that you did this deliberately just to keep the thread going :)

Gideon Weems

It needs to elect a billionaire independent to prove to the world that the system has been broken for decades.

So you're saying the country needs to hit rock bottom before bouncing back up?

bamccaig

I don't think there'll be any "bouncing" involved. It will work the same as it does in the business world. The executives give themselves millions in "bonuses" for a job well done while declaring bankruptcy and abandoning the "company", leaving the "workers" to fend for themselves with what's left (nothing).

jmasterx

Have we won? Why are these threads not locked?
https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/616092
https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/616107
etc

Has O'Captain! Our Captain! Given in?

GullRaDriel

Did Matt extended the delay ?

bamccaig

It's more likely that the development boards would have an exceptional timeout, but isn't the timeout 2 weeks? The latter thread is only like 9 days old, and though the first looks to be about an hour over 2 weeks, it might not actually lock until midnight UTC or something.

GullRaDriel

Poums !;D

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

The executives give themselves millions in "bonuses" for a job well done while declaring bankruptcy and abandoning the "company", leaving the "workers" to fend for themselves with what's left (nothing).

... so politicians leave the United States en masse? You're right. It sounds more like soaring than bouncing.

bamccaig

... so politicians leave the United States en masse? You're right. It sounds more like soaring than bouncing.

Not just the politicians. The wealthy, of which, thanks to bribes and general "upper-class" backgrounds, politicians very much are. You bet your ass when it catches fire they won't be passing any buckets. They'll just take their spoils and run, leaving everybody else to fight the fires.

Gideon Weems

Quit getting my hopes up. :)

Peter Hull

My little CSS thread got locked after a week :'(
https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/616090

Arvidsson

My condolences.

bamccaig

Of course it did. You humiliated the fearless leader. You're lucky you haven't been banished from these lands yet! :o

Gideon Weems

Yes, he did.

Mark Oates

allegro.cc should be a forum as a service. That way we could expand it into apps/games while still keeping the network intact.

Does allegro.cc even have like a privacy policy or terms of service?

Chris Katko

allegro.cc should be a forum as a service. That way we could expand it into apps/games while still keeping the network intact.

What does that mean?

A.CC being some sort of Allegro dynamic game hub where you post highscores, game lobbies, and so on?

Mark Oates

Well, there seems to a small small sentiment that allegro.cc could be updated a bit. This thread being a primary example. Peter's thread about the custom CSS page not working is another.

What might that look like? Maybe it would be more like a platform that would developers to make a better mobile view, or build an app with push notifications, or an ability to customize the interface a bit more than the simple custom Javascript. It might be cool if the source to allegro.cc was an open repo like the Allegro library itself - members could contribute PR changes, things like that. :)

Just, enable more possibilities.

Chris Katko

I honestly don't think we have the forum community size to warrant it right now. But if someone really wanted to do the WORK, I'm not going to tell them no.

But I think something we'd need most, is something high-profile to draw people into the community. A high-profile game, or a YouTube series on game development using Allegro.

I'm working toward doing some YouTube videos anyway. Some of them game development related.

amarillion

A high-profile game

You mean like factorio?

Chris Katko

Well, yes, I thought of saying that. But I have no idea if Korval really wants to plug Allegro anywhere in his game / website.

Arvidsson

Korval... isn't he still working on AllegroPro? :)

Chris Katko

Whoops, I was in a hurry. I meant kovarex.

Peter Hull

Strangely, you've done that before.

Chris Katko

How do you even remember that?!

Indeterminatus

Speaking of remembrance ... does any of you slackers remember that disgusting game I made with a friend aeons ago? It was called Atomic Butcher and is still lurking about in the depot.

We're currently working on a sequel; there's a playable demo on our page. We're planning to go to Steam Greenlight soon-ish, so spread the word, and let there be feasting!

In case it crashes or anything, please drop me a note with your system specs and everything.

Yeah, this does not belong in this thread, but what really does? This post here can still accomplish not having this thread locked too soon. :-*

bamccaig

Is there a reason you discriminate against 32-bit CPUs? >:( I tried to run it in wine, but it seems that getting a functional 64-bit wine is a lot of work... At least, I'm inferring that the errors I get are architecture specific, but I can't rule something else out until I have ruled that out...

Gideon Weems

... does any of you slackers remember that disgusting game I made with a friend aeons ago?

I never played the original but will never forget the preview of the sequel.

Indeterminatus
bamccaig said:

Is there a reason you discriminate against 32-bit CPUs?

Just that I didn't have a 32-bit system to test it on before releasing. In hindsight, I really should've known better before posting here... Please be aware that I did not test if this build works, but judging from your post you were meddling about with Wine. No need for that (hopefully), here is a Linux version (both x86 and x86-64). The download is approximately 100 MiB. I made that just for you, bambam :-*

edit: I'm off to work now, so I won't be able to hop in that quickly in case anything does not work; but it'd be a very valuable test to see if it runs in Linux natively (maybe you also have a twin-stick controller to try it with? As far as the demo is concerned, you should only have to plug it in)

amarillion

I don't know if kovarex wants to advertise allegro (but why not? It's in the interest of factorio too that Allegro continues to do well)

But it's hardly a secret:

Games made with allegro

For comparison:

Games made with SDL

jmasterx

The SDL list is shorter than I expected. The Allegro list should include the Monster RPG games made by Trent G and his team.

amarillion

The Allegro page is a category page, so you can only add games that have a wikipedia entry themselves.

bamccaig

Just that I didn't have a 32-bit system to test it on before releasing. In hindsight, I really should've known better before posting here... Please be aware that I did not test if this build works, but judging from your post you were meddling about with Wine. No need for that (hopefully), here is a Linux version (both x86 and x86-64). The download is approximately 100 MiB. I made that just for you, bambam :-*

edit: I'm off to work now, so I won't be able to hop in that quickly in case anything does not work; but it'd be a very valuable test to see if it runs in Linux natively (maybe you also have a twin-stick controller to try it with? As far as the demo is concerned, you should only have to plug it in)

That is bloody amazingly well designed and polished. I love it. Thanks for the special build! It ran just fine. It crashed when I picked "Fantastic" graphics, but "Fastest" seemed to work fine. I did have trouble exiting though. Not sure if you're supposed to be able to go back to a menu or anything, but I couldn't figure it out. I was in windowed mode so I managed to get to the window's x.

I'm afraid that I don't have a controller to test with though.

Gideon Weems

Thank you for sharing the Wikipedia list of Allegro games. I have been maintaining a similar list here and encourage people to contribute (as I am certain there are a number of notable games missing).

Chris Katko

I forgot about Gemini Rue!

Though technically, they used the Adventure Game Studio, which runs on top of Allegro (4?).

Polybios

Yes, it's A4. There are also other games which use AGS; I think Resonance deverses to be mentioned.

I've only played two of them, but I think some/maybe even all (?) of those at http://www.wadjeteyegames.com are made with AGS/A4.

Peter Hull

Quite a lot of the games on Retrospec were made with Allegro. Unfortunately I don't know exactly which ones.

Chris Katko

I still love LaserLock. A DOS game that the internet is slowly forgetting.

You control a space station with corridors built from puzzle-pieces. There are aliens, civilians, and soldiers. Aliens are trying to take over the station. Every turn, you can do X amount of actions with your energy, like toggling doors, placing new reactors (for more energy) and so on.

But what I do is get as many of my guys to a safe place, seal them in, then trigger a bomb on the other side of the station. The station vents to space and kills everything on the other side the the airlock, and in my case, 99% of the station!

I've got a copy on my PC. It's hard to come by.

[edit] This game was way more crude than I remembered. :o

Indeterminatus
bamccaig said:

That is bloody amazingly well designed and polished. I love it. Thanks for the special build! It ran just fine. It crashed when I picked "Fantastic" graphics, but "Fastest" seemed to work fine. I did have trouble exiting though. Not sure if you're supposed to be able to go back to a menu or anything, but I couldn't figure it out. I was in windowed mode so I managed to get to the window's x.

I'm afraid that I don't have a controller to test with though.

Thanks for testing! Glad to hear it works natively on Linux ;D. You are right to notice there's no way to exit currently other than the hard way. I admit I didn't invest much attention into this since we're going to re-do the entire menu and UI anyway. But it'd have been good to mention that, I'll add a section on our website as a quick and dirty work-around :)

May I ask what system you're on? (mostly interested in GPU and CPU)

bamccaig

I have an AMD (ASUS) HD 6850 and an AMD Phenom II 1000T. The full system specs should be available somewhere on the boards because I'm sure I built it with advice from here... I'm currently running Ubuntu for Steam support. I have the proprietary drivers installed.

Gideon Weems

Quite a lot of the games on Retrospec were made with Allegro. Unfortunately I don't know exactly which ones.

Many of them are packaged with source code and Allegro DLLs (Styx, for example). They also look really good! Can you say anything of their notoriety? The most popular game of the bunch would be a good starting point...

I took the liberty of adding Resonance.

Bruce Perry

Greetings from Japan! I found a shop called DLESS here.

Peter Hull

I found a shop called DLESS here.

Pictures?

On the notoriety of the Retrospec games: I did a bit of work on some of them to ensure the Mac version was working correctly - ExolonDX, Wizball, Deflektor and Tranzam (possibly Alien8, I can't remember) so I know the ones that Graham Goring did are listed in his Mobygames entry. Also there may be some YouTube play-throughs. Obviously they are all remakes and the original games were written about in computer magazines of the 1980s. That's about it though.

Also, at least some of Linley Henzell's games are made with Allegro.

Niunio

Thank you for sharing the Wikipedia list of Allegro games. I have been maintaining a similar list here and encourage people to contribute (as I am certain there are a number of notable games missing).

Like this game. It will be published soon... 8-)

Mark Oates

Anybody interested in Axiom Verge, MegaSphere, or Jonathan Blow's newest game The Whitness?

Indeterminatus

Further derailment of this thread: we just went on at Steam Greenlight. It would be very kind of you to vote for our disgusting game, so the world can be made a worse place 8-)

Bruce Perry

Voted :)

You have an error in your description: the verb "to lead" becomes "led" in the past tense. If you spell it "lead" and expect it to be pronounced "led", then it's a metal.

bamccaig

That's a worthwhile project! Also bump.

Peter Hull

That's horrible.

Horribly good! ;D

Am I right when I say this new Atomic Butcher isn't an Allegro game but the original was?

Pete

GullRaDriel

What ? Traitor !

Johan Halmén

I've heard that no one in USA is concerned about the Panama Papers. That everyone thinks it's just something about corrupt Russian politicians. I guess we will know more next week.

Arthur Kalliokoski

What are you guys doing here, with 417 posts? You're gonna clog the innertubes!

bamccaig

Yayz, Arthur is back! And alive! :o

GullRaDriel

Bumpy !

It's an attempt to keep a thread alive ;-)

Niunio

I wonder if Matt is still reading this thread. ???

GullRaDriel

I wonder if he is still reading a.cc at all ???

Chris Katko

I've heard that no one in USA is concerned about the Panama Papers. That everyone thinks it's just something about corrupt Russian politicians. I guess we will know more next week.

A quick look at Reddit /r/news or r/worldnews will tell you nobody is talking about ANYTHING else at all.

The consensus is that the USA leaks are likely huge and going to be released later.

It's a 2.6 TERABYTE dump. It takes a long time to sift through everything.

GullRaDriel

That, and the Delaware. Why going to Panama when you have the Delaware, which is more reputed than the latter for the security of the tractations.

Bruce Perry

Should Britain leave the EU?

I think we should. Basically my perception is that the leave campaign has highlighted one very important problem: that EU officials are unelected and therefore have the opportunity to be dictatorial. There are other more specific problems too such as way the EU has a common currency but doesn't have common fiscal law, or free movement of people but insufficient cooperation of intelligence services and such. In any case, it's all very compelling to me. Meanwhile, the stay campaign is mostly just trying to scare people into the 'better the devil you know' (than the one you don't) mentality, while also making outlandish claims such as 'trade with the EU will stop' (which to me it seems it clearly won't) or badly worded comments such as 'We're a world leader and therefore we need Europe' (to lead us?).

Betting odds seem to indicate a larger payout if we stay, which suggests more people are betting that we will leave. Or could this just mean that risk-takers (betters) would take the risk of leaving? Surely not, since they are trying to predict the masses' decision, not specifying their own preference. (Link - be careful not to misread the pie chart, which is *not* indicating a stay/leave ratio.) [EDIT: actually I suppose it's difficult to say whether betting odds are a genuine indicator of likelihood of outcome, since the current odds, and rounding thereof, always affect the likelihood of future bets.]

Finally, in this article, the first graph shows a 'poll of polls' indicating figures close to 50-50 but nearly always slightly in favour of staying. In contrast, the vote at the bottom of the article has a resounding outcome of 72% wanting to leave. I'm inclined to think there's some kind of statistical flaw in the 'poll of polls', but then, I found the article simply by Googling 'Brexit predictions' and I don't know what the Telegraph's usual political bias is.

Thoughts?

Johan Halmén

EU went too far. I voted no, when we had a referendum about joining, back in the 90's. A lose community would have been enough. Now it's almost a federal union, but not fully one. It would function better if it was. But the smaller each country would be, as well as its citizens. I want to be a Finn, not an EU citizen. OTOH I do believe a lose European community could continue keeping the peace. But EU won't and can't take a step back.

Maybe a Brexit could force EU to turn into a EC that it once was.

Peter Hull

I disagree on Europe. It seems to me that most studies put out by people or bodies that I trust and respect are in favour of staying. In the leave camp we have Farage, Gove, Boris Johnson et al. Their argument seems to be predicated on the assumption that we will instantaneously be able to re-negotiate 30 years of trade deals in such a way that we will retain all the benefits and lose all the liabilities.

In my own job (medical devices) it's very nice to be able to work with harmonised standards across Europe and if we were no longer part of that, they would inevitably drift apart due to favouring national interests.

Great Britain is not what it once was, and probably never will be again. I believe that if we pursue an isolationist strategy we will end up as little better than a historical theme park. If we had to throw our lot in with someone it had better be the 'Europeans' - their common values are best aligned to our own in my experience. The US 'special relationship' is nothing of the kind and only remains for as long as America deems it convenient.

Finally the Telegraph is the homeplace of old-school conservative right-wing thinking. I respect their viewpoints but they are not mine.

This puts me in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with David Cameron. :-/

Polybios

Please don't leave. :-/

You'll lose the possibility to influence this peculiar club from within. There are others who would miss British influence: When a large north-western country leaves, balance will shift to south-east, so to speak. ^^

We're still not through with economic crisis (for like 8 years?). Frankly, what actual problems will be solved by leaving the EU? You don't have the Euro anyway. :)

Bruce Perry

I misread the betting odds. It seems betters think staying is more likely. This becomes obvious if you click on a 'stay' bet and a 'leave' bet and review the potential total returns on the bet, which are greater for a 'leave' bet implying they expect less likelihood of having to pay it. But that still begs the question of whether betting odds really reflect people's opinion of the likelihood of outcome, rather than the proportions of bets each way which may depend on bets made so far, personal sentiments, rounding errors and such.

While I can't resist reading an article or two every day to see what the current sentiments are, I am coming round to thinking I have other things I'd rather spend my time on :-/

Johan Halmén

:'(

It's sad that a great part of actual political movements in the whole world consists of the force from racist and xenophobic people. We know that there are racists and xenophobics[1] among us. And we also know that such people tend to lean to the political right wings. They tend to support Trump. And probably they tend to support brexit, too. And that's a pity, because they will shed all the other ideas. I don't know about Trump, he might have some fine ideas, too. But all I see is a misogynist racist. And there might be fine ideas building up the idea of brexit. I just don't like the ugly ideas and their supporters, who will be an important part of the voters.

References

  1. Sorry for using this word. I know fobia is something you can do very little to. I'd rather use another word that would underline the negative attitude against everything foreign and strange.
Bruce Perry

Is Trump really racist, or only nationalist? For example, is there any evidence that he would disadvantage black people or any other race if they legitimately live in the US?

And misogynist? I wasn't even aware of such a criticism of Trump.

GullRaDriel

The question is not good, Bruce. The good question is "Can one be a nationalist without being racist" and the answer is no.

As for the black people: there is already ton of problems involving black people. How come there are that much shooting from police to unarmed black people ? Do you really think a nationalist would help ?

Same as the woman. You just have to try to search for 'Trump and women' and see for yourself the ton of quotes.

That guy just stings as much as Hillary. He's just a big lie, as his companies steaks were.

Greets from France ;-)

Bruce Perry

Yes, nationalism and racism are two different things, and also outcome isn't the same as intention - even if nationalism results in racism flourishing, that doesn't mean the nationalist intended racism to flourish.

As for Trump and women, his insults are funny and usually directed at specific people who might have deserved it, and the article I found smacked of barrel-scraping and overreaction.

My 32 GB memory set has just arrived - I'll install it now and see if it works, and hopefully the upgrade from 8 GB will help my virtual orchestra software not to crash :)

[EDIT]
Installed and seems to work, except Windows 7 Home Premium only allows me to use 16 GB of it. Perhaps I should consider Windows 10 after all, as it lifts that limit. Honestly the only thing holding me back is that I prefer how Windows 7 looks :(

Johan Halmén

"Can one be a nationalist without being racist" and the answer is no.

I wish I could say I'm a nationalist. I love my country, I love my mother tongue Swedish, I might love Finnish even more just because it's so ... well, Finnish. I love Sibelius, Finnish folk music, Kalevala etc. But I guess I can never call me a racist, unless I start to hate other people. I love all other forms of national culture, too. Czech national romantic music with Dvořák and Smetana. Irish folk music. And of course there's a special bond to one's own culture.

Some refugees that came last winter to Finland, to my home town which is bilingual, insisted on getting to learn both Finnish and Swedish, because they came from a bilingual culture and they know the value of it. Fine by me. Though if they would find learning two new languages too difficult, I'm fine with them learning only Finnish, which is and always will be the most important language in Finland. Perhaps there's a little racist in me after all, if I'd require refugees who settle down in Finland to at least learn Finnish and most of all learn Finnish culture and Finnish manners (the good ones, not the bad ones).

Chris Katko

I have absolutely loved this election cycle and I hope Trump wins.

Why? Because it has absolutely highlighted to me how much of a liberal "Hillary election machine" the media is. It's non-stop propaganda.

Trump is an asshole. But he's the first asshole in decades who is too rich to be bought.

Obama was a perfect example. Charming guy. Ran on a platform of change. He won a freaking advertising award for that. And what did he change? Almost nothing.

Basically, the USA government has become a system where the true people in power pay for candidates to get elected, so that they owe the corporations when they get in. Democrats and Republicans are the exact same party. They both bailed out Wall Street. They both refused to prosecute anyone on Wall Street. They talk about emotional, hot-button issues to distract everyone but they have no ACTUAL plans of changing those issues. Why give away an issue guaranteed to polarize your voting base every year and get you re-elected?

And those people who are pulling the strings? They're not subjected to elections. They don't cease being powerful every 4 years. They lobby, gain power, and have more power the next time around.

The reason Trump is so damn popular is because of the non-stop media onslaught against him. The media is so damn self-serving and under-handed they don't even realize they've managed to make A BILLIONAIRE look like the underdog. Every day, it's a new article of "Here's why he won't win." then when he does win something, it's "Here's why that win doesn't matter." You don't have to be a genius to pick up on that pattern.

And if you truly hate the powers that be, it stands to reason you're going to vote for the person that the-powers-that-be are afraid of and constantly attacking. A vote for Trump is the best chance we've had in my lifetime to give a giant middle-finger to our entire government. It's saying "We hate you so much, we'd vote for a crazy person over four more years of your snake-tongued crap."

And if he wins? Politics will have forever changed. All a sudden, a foreigner-with-money will be a plausible threat to all of those political incumbents. And the more threats there are, the more chances politicians will actually start listening to us for a change.

Mark Oates

They talk about emotional, hot-button issues to distract everyone

They talk about emotional, hot-button issues in order to get attention.

Bruce Perry

Like this issue?

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Not my joke - it came up at the meal after our orchestra day, but unsurprisingly the Internet got there first ;)

bamccaig

I think that it's wrong to assume that because Trump is [allegedly] wealthy that he'll be unbuyable. Odds are he became rich by being bought. And he likes being rich. I'm sure he'd love to be richer. This is like cutting out the middleman politician. You're proposing to just put the lobbyist in office directly. I'm sure he has many existing allies and friends within the business world that will appreciate his newfound power. And I'm sure he'll be more than willing to pander to them at the expense of the average American. What you need is not a rich man in office. What you need is for the country to hold the office accountable to the people. Do a good job of that and the lobbyist will fall away and only serious candidates will dare apply. We face the same basic problem in Canada. How do you get corrupt people to revoke their own power? Unfortunately, probably the only way is to physically show up and break the door down. Which means a few people will probably be shot so we'll need enough of us to drain their ammunition stores.

Johan Halmén

Yip! The richer, the more they want to be bought. The richer, the more they want to escape to tax havens.

MiquelFire

>Installed and seems to work, except Windows 7 Home Premium only allows me to use 16 GB of it. Perhaps I should consider Windows 10 after all, as it lifts that limit. Honestly the only thing holding me back is that I prefer how Windows 7 looks :(

I was going to say use the Windows Anytime Upgrade, but it seems they shut that down.

Derezo

Disclaimer: Canadian.

I have absolutely loved this election cycle and I hope Trump wins.

I desperately want him to win the GOP nomination. His chances are looking pretty grim now. I don't think it's possible for him to win a general election, but the more damage he does to the Republican party the better.

GullRaDriel

What Derezo said looks plausible for me.

Mark Oates
Derezo said:

His chances are looking pretty grim now.

Not so sure about that. When you look at the numbers, he's pretty much the nominee at this point. The press would have you believe otherwise (because it's in their best interest).

Also when you look at the numbers for the general election, we're in the clear. There's no way Trump will be able to win the general.

Now go out and vote. Your vote makes a difference!

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Bruce Perry

Does that make her a peasant plucker?

Peter Hull

Does that make her a peasant plucker?

No, a pleasant ... no wait, that doesn't work. :-/

I'm sure there's some political analogy that can be made with that half-full pint.

Also, this thread now takes a perceptible time to load and render on my comp. Keep going people we will blow Leverton's server before long.

MiquelFire

The moment we get a new page, I bet the load time will jump for you. I'm assuming we're doing too much stuff that needs JS to do things with right now.

Johan Halmén

For me, this is page 5. I know, I'm a traitor.

MiquelFire

I'm on page 5 as well, the the thread just loads as fast as any other thread for me.

I forgot you can change the post per page count. It seems 100 is the most you can set. If Peter's setting is unlimited, then that might be the issue he's having. Those of us who have pages, we're not seeing slowdowns yet.

GullRaDriel

i'm not paging at all. Working fine ^^

bamccaig

I have unlimited pages. >:( Keep going. I'm not scared.

Bruce Perry

Unlimited pages, or unlimited posts per page (pages limited to 1)?

bamccaig

Technically unlimited page length[1] AKA unlimited posts per page. >:(

References

  1. More likely limited to some pseudo-arbitrary number of bytes in the hundreds of millions or maybe billions...
Mark Oates

10 pages now.

Bruce Perry

If a book has only ten pages, we consider it short! Come on, people! ;D

GullRaDriel

11 soon !

;)

Peter Hull

If Peter's setting is unlimited, then that might be the issue he's having.

It's not a problem, it's just that the delay is perceptible where it isn't normally.

I had a look on Print Preview; it would make 59 printed pages. Definitely a book but a slim one. Jonathan Livingston Seagull?

Gideon Weems

This thread has 19 pages. You are all liars.

Bruce Perry

Required reading at this point :)

Elias
Quote:

19 is The TCP/IP port used for chargen.

echo "gnome, male, lawful good, mage" | nc allegro.cc 19

It doesn't seem to work... ???

Edgar Reynaldo

;D - I remember using telnet at the University to play d&d like text games. Can't even remember what they are called now.

Rodolfo Lam

That reminds me, in case someone is interested into some old TELNET stuff, there are still BBS servers around... I used to have an account on one over here. THere are some that offer D&D style games.

Derezo

I remember using telnet at the University to play d&d like text games. Can't even remember what they are called now.

I tried to develop a MUD once...

I had so many dreams in that thread :'(

Edgar Reynaldo

MUD!!! That's the name!!! I used to stay up for days not doing homework playing those games! :O

Niunio

That reminds me, in case someone is interested into some old TELNET stuff, there are still BBS servers around...

:o

I wonder if somebody still use Gopher...

Johan Halmén

My first BBS contact was with my 300 baud modem. Or 300 bit/s. I've forgot the difference. Anyway, 30 characters per second. One could actually read the text in the same speed that it appeared on the screen. Still would have taken some time to fill my 10 MB hard disk by downloading anything.

Then to something different.
Seven little bugs were hiding in your code.
You did a nice fix,
and then they were...

...a load. It's not supposed to rhyme with 'fix', you fool, but with 'code'.

Bruce Perry

Seven little bugs were hiding in your code.
You did a nice fix,
and then they were...

...unable to reproduce. Do I win the motherlode?

bamccaig

... and then they hit the road...

:-/

Rodolfo Lam

So... Are we going to let the thread lock now?

bamccaig

Never.

Gideon Weems

This thread will never die, just as weekends will never truly live.

GullRaDriel

Tomorrow never dies.

8-)

jmasterx

Tomorrow never dies.

Tomorrow Never Knows
:o

taron 

This thread will lock when the bubble bursts and society falls.

Bruce Perry

I would like to see the bubble burst, and I don't think it will lead to society falling.

I would also like to see an end to Assured Shorthold Tenancies. If I had to pick one thing wrong with this country, it would be those. I mean who could possibly think they're in any way a good idea, for any other reason than "I'm a landlord and it's good for me", selfish Kents?

MiquelFire

I can see it now, only a handful of people are alive due to some event that basically wiped out most of mankind, maybe making us near extinct, and a few of the survivors are here keeping this thread open until the server is cut off for good.

Bruce Perry

Bonus points if the server was the mass extinction event :)

amarillion

GLaDOS, is that you?

jmasterx

GLaDOS, is that you?

Nope, just DOS.
Press any key to continue . . .

Bruce Perry

This may sound a little loopy ... but I pressed a key to continue, and all it did was break. Now my options appear to be... throw my computer; return it (where do I goto for that)?

I know that people in my position just go and complete normally a purchase for a new computer. Of course it affects your next statement somewhat.

Edgar Reynaldo

Abort Retry Fail should be a category in TINS.

jmasterx

What about
Abort | Retry | Ignore

I like ignoring problems.

GullRaDriel

Can't let it lock.

bamccaig

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Bruce Perry

wait wat

HOW MAN GET PRAGNENT??!

Gideon Weems
jmasterx

When a man with a Keg (scientific term for a stomach inflated from yeast) and a woman bump into each other, the woman and the man use Bluetooth to exchange DNA. This causes the yeast inside the man to activate and for the pregnancy to begin inside the man.

Didn't anyone every teach you guys about the birds and the bees? The stork doesn't carry the baby, the father does. After which he goes into labor until he retires (he needs to feed his family after all).

Bruce Perry

I am fully aware that this is the accepted scientific explanation, but I disagree because reasons.

Oh, you actually want me to justify my position? Well I can see a bit of a chicken and egg problem here: how does the pregnant Keg required for impregnation develop in the first place?

On another note, I participated in a recording of some music intended to sound like chocolate yesterday. If I understood correctly, the person who composed it interviewed some people with taste-sound synaesthesia. This also led to me buying £12.30 of artisan chocolates which have already all gone :o

Now my own attempt at a chocolate-themed composition applies. :)

jmasterx

Oh, you actually want me to justify my position? Well I can see a bit of a chicken and egg problem here: how does the pregnant Keg required for impregnation develop in the first place?

By drinking Beer! The man builds up yeast by drinking beer and it starts to form a Keg inside his stomach becoming a perfect incubator for human life! When the man and the woman exchange DNA over Bluetooth, it causes a rise in temperature in the man's mid section which activates the yeast and starts the 'baking' process of child development (not to be confused with 420 For Kids). This is the foundation of Christianity. Jesus turned water into wine to help men get pregnant with their spouse because beer was scarce. It wasn't the virgin Mary who was pregnant with Jesus, it was God (who himself was known to drink a lot of beer, hence why the female genitalia came out, shall we say, more aesthetically pleasing than the male counterpart. Drunk engineering also meant the male version had to be external). It's quite remarkable really.

Bruce Perry

But don't you realise? Mary didn't consent to ruining God's life!

jmasterx

But don't you realise? Mary didn't consent to ruining God's life!

:o This changes EVERYTHING!

Bruce Perry

Oh. I ... won? Now I don't know what to do. Quick, find something else to fight about?

I really ought to wash some clothes today, but I feel a bit drained :-/

bamccaig

It doesn't matter if a woman consents or not because she can revoke said consent at any time before, during, or after the act in question. :o The science remains true!

Append:

I really ought to wash some clothes today, but I feel a bit drained :-/

Quick, drink some beer! I am expected to do the dishes and wash black mold from the bathroom walls today. But if I do I should be rewarded with a bottle of fine single-malt scotch!

timidiy(1) said:

Copyright: Copyright 1997 by B****** *****s

:-/

Johan Halmén

What's the main difference between single malt and blended? I've never understood the fuss about it?

Lately I've enjoyed mainly brandies from Italy or Spain. (Vecchia Romagna or Cardenal Mendoza.) In my younger days I was more a whiskey drinker. And now I've got a bottle of Bushmill's Black Bush. Quite good.

bamccaig

There is a difference, but I don't know what it is and I'm not sure it matters. I wanted to learn to drink hard liquor straight and when I researched it single-malt scotch was one of the normal choices. Apparently it is criminal to mix single-malt with anything and you should instead enjoy the flavor. Whereas it's more normal to mix blended, or so I read. Since I was specifically aiming to learn to drink it straight I went with the single-malt.

According to some Google searches the history goes that blended was popular until the 80s when the single-malt producers started pushing it on the market, and since it was new it was adopted. Along with vodka at the same time this drove blended sales down. To respond to the market the blended went down in price to compete. And that had the unfortunate effect of making people believe that the blended was lesser quality.

I just happened to choose a Bowmore single-malt (12 years aged) when I went to find my first scotch and I liked that it has a smoky flavor. I haven't found another one, blended or not, that I like as much. Though I have found that I can drink just about anything now if I'm motivated to do it. For example, I can drink Jack Daniels and that is some of the worst tasting shit that I can remember ever drinking. Perhaps I just didn't have a taste for whiskey the first time. I don't know...

I imagine whiskey choices are as much religious as any other food/drink preference. :)

Bruce Perry

bambams, here's a spoiler for your spoiler. I just noticed how it was very easy to miss it since it's at the top of the post above the first quote. So now it isn't any more. ;)

Quote:

Copyright 1997 by Bast*** **utts

Ah yes. I made an orchestral score template in 1997, and whenever I did that chocolate thing, I just took it and went 'Save as'. Since the piece is unfinished, I never got around to sorting out the file info. Or I was too malnourished to think of it, or something. :D

Now, as to why I would choose a name like ****ard Sl**** at the age of 1997... Actually I guess that IS the age at which that happens. ;) Bit embarrassed I spelt it wrong though.

bamccaig said:

I imagine whiskey choices are as much religious as any other food/drink preference. :)

Or music :)

We're stupid as a species, aren't we? It's so easy to get addicted to watching dramas unfold among popular YouTube uploaders, or in universities like Mizzou (whose popularity among its future customers has been absolutely thrashed by what happened there, i.e. normal market forces and not really that important) - instead of focusing on something like making games, performing music or (for normal people) amateur evening art courses or yoga or whatever takes your fancy - things like that which are more rewarding, every single time.

Peter Hull

Has anyone here invested in a Kickstarter project? Has anyone ever set one up?
I've put a few ££ into a couple, neither of which has delivered anything yet (but both seemingly proceeding OK)

[edit]
What I meant to say was about the whiskey - there's malt whiskey and grain whiskey. The latter is not as interesting flavour-wise and harsher (and cheaper). A single malt is bottled from one batch of malt whiskey. If they mix it with grain whiskey that's a cheap blend (like Bells) and isn't as nice. However you can also get blends of malts, blended by experts and they can be even more expensive than single malt.
It's a funny old business, the product you make is worth very little unless you can hang on to it for years and then it's valuable. A lot of distilleries shut down a long time ago but are still selling the stuff they made back then. A lot also have been bought up by others and are more of a brand name than an actual place.
I had a holiday once in Islay, it was fantastic!

Aaron Bolyard

I supported Spine. It worked out well; good piece of software. $30 backing for a single license that was upgraded to professional. The same license would cost $300 now.

MiquelFire

Currently, I have backed 6 projects. For whatever reason, it seems I haven't backed a failed project yet (in terms of funding, so they at least got their money)

Currently, I only received two. Of the four left, two are games, and they're both way over due. Another I have been posting stuff here about. My pledge level says I should be getting it this month. And the latest ended the campaign just last month, so I can't really say much more about it.

jmasterx

HOW MAN GET PRAGNENT??!

You're grammar is repulsive.

Johan Halmén

Damn, this Bushmill's is good!

append

Oops, sorry. I broke the 500. I must be drunk.

bamccaig

For whatever reason, it seems I haven't backed a failed project yet (in terms of funding, so they at least got their money)

Currently, I only received two. Of the four left, two are games, and they're both way over due.

You and me...have different definitions of "failed project". :-/ Technically if a Kickstarter project doesn't meet its timeline then it has failed. If it happens to finish at all on the originally donated money most contributors will probably be happy,... If it doesn't finish or it requires additional funding not in the original plan then it's a failure without question. Time is malleable, but only so much. If it takes them too long the backers will have long forgotten about it and odds are the output will be outdated before it's released...

Unless like some they make millions and deliver fuck all and come back asking for more. I digress... Who here is stupid enough to contribute to Feminist propaganda? ???

Aaron Bolyard

Extrapolating, I'll have a 200% success rate backing Kickstarters in a couple years.

Seeing as this is a new page, it reminds me I also want to use this video as a reply (somewhere) at some point:

video

Bruce Perry
jmasterx said:

You're grammar is repulsive.

Its not mine :)

video

Gideon Weems

Agh my stomach hurts now! :D

Has anyone here invested in a Kickstarter project?

I've backed Free software on Indiegogo... which was basically a platform for donating, now that I think about it. I opted out of having a prize sent, as I wished such money to be used to fund development.

... When's Allegro going to do something like that?

amarillion

Has anyone here invested in a Kickstarter project?

Two times. One time for "at the gates", which got funded. I have high hopes, but it is still vaporware at this point.

The other time was ChemCaper, an educational chemistry-based RPG. It got funded and I played halfway through the android version. It's an interesting thing from an educational perspective, but it falls short from a pure game / fun perspective.

There are a couple of kickstarter projects I wish I had backed :) FTL for example, would have been totally worth it.

Chris Katko

Almost all of my kickstarter projects were either:

- Vaporware. (Interstellar Marines)

- I've lost interest waiting 5-6 years for the concept to come out. By time they do come out, I don't even care. (War for the Overworld, Galactic Princess, Project Zomboid)

Kickstarter has become a scam that lets consumers fit all of the risk while businesses use consumer money to merely raise a round of funding before selling out to a corporation. It's also allowed people who have NO BUSINESS being developers put together a snazzy video and grab money but they have no experience or the fortitude required to complete a game.

Yooka-Laylee is looking to be a rare gem. FTL was amazing but I didn't back it at the time.

Nowadays, unless I'm fine giving away free money, I only back things that have experienced, proven developers at the helm. I backed Kingdom Come: Deliverance and it's looking amazing. I also strongly support the developer's anti-PC stances. (He grew up in an actual communist regime and is strongly opposed to modern liberals who undermine the freedom of speech and open debate.)

bamccaig

I totally have contributed to IM. I forget how though (E-mail searches for kickstarter turn up nothing). They have made a game and it is available on Steam, and you should have a license if you have contributed... It's more of a deathmatch shooter right now though, I think. They have also made various demos... Yes, it's coming up quite short of what we want, but I digress. The only thing that pisses me off is that it's based on Unity or something and the Linux performance is atrocious! I'm lucky to get 3 or 5 FPS.

amarillion

Kickstarter has become a scam that lets consumers fit all of the risk while businesses use consumer money to merely raise a round of funding before selling out to a corporation

I think this is not different from what it was in the beginning. Kickstarter is an alternative means to venture capital, but the goal is no different, it never was.

Quote:

Nowadays, unless I'm fine giving away free money, I only back things that have experienced, proven developers at the helm.

Of course this is always good advice, right from the beginning of kickstarter.

I think you're seeing Kickstarter as having moved away from its humble beginnings. Perhaps instead, you perceived a rosy glow at the start that has worn off.

Bruce Perry

I find I return to Kickstarter after not visiting for a while, and the projects I want to fund have been locked! Can we extend the lock timeout?

Chris Katko

I think you're seeing Kickstarter as having moved away from its humble beginnings. Perhaps instead, you perceived a rosy glow at the start that has worn off.

That's true of me, sure. But the point I'm making is how the market has adapted to exploit it. It's such a viable revenue stream that "to kickstart" has become a new verb that everyone knows. A household brand name. Friends, extended-family, and almost-strangers have talked about "kickstarting" projects, and they never would normally fund a venture using someone else's money. It's not as intimidating as going to a proper investor, some big banker guy behind a desk who can call your phone and ask about your progress, it's just random people online without a face.

Ant Simulator canceled after crowdfunding money spent on liquor and strippers

Now this doesn't mean everyone is exploiting it (in the bad sense of the word). Professionals, and hard-working new-comers with modest expectations can succeed. But too often people under-estimate the cost, time, and pain it takes to complete a game and Kickstarter is the next generation of technology that makes it appear less intimidating than it should be.

I've discussed with family/friends my strategy for a Kickstarter. I would self-fund at least 50% of the game before going to Kickstarter. (If the game isn't worth my money, than it isn't worth anyone elses.) Then, use Kickstarter money to refund my investment as well as fund the rest of the development using my past work as a certain guarantee of quality, expectations, and commitment on my part.

bamccaig

{"name":"cyanide-and-happiness.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/6\/86cf458e83f16dd393759b5e7eddaf40.jpg","w":640,"h":360,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/6\/86cf458e83f16dd393759b5e7eddaf40"}cyanide-and-happiness.jpg

I like liquor and strippers. :D

jmasterx

#Leverton2016
#MakeAmericaCodeAgain

amarillion

Ant Simulator canceled after crowdfunding money spent on liquor and strippers

Ha, that's a good one.

I think I generally agree with you.

Here is a different way of looking at it. Kickstarter is also a bit like a church collection to help a community member, except it's not for a local community. I'm sure you could find examples of abuse of these types of collections that are at least as bad as the one you linked to :)

But you make a good point about the anonymity of it all. That makes it easier to exploit. I guess with kickstarter you have be extra careful compared to your local church collection

taron 

Liquor and strippers are the last thing I'd waste my money on. Pretty much paying to defile yourself, probably okay in the short run, worst choice in the long run.

bamccaig

But you make a good point about the anonymity of it all. That makes it easier to exploit. I guess with kickstarter you have be extra careful compared to your local church collection

You make it sound like church members know where their money goes. ???

Bruce Perry

When you start thinking about the word 'church' - especially if you're British and the 'ur' is just a uniform vowel sound without a distinctive 'r' tone to it - what you end up with is two 'ch' sounds with a blurry nothingy sound in between them. Is it just me that thinks that's funny?

I had a Greek colleague whose 'ch' sound wasn't right and sounded more like 'ts'. So he would say 'tsuhts'.

jmasterx

Thou shall not lock >:(

Bruce Perry

It's all right, we were going to come back after TINS :)

GullRaDriel

That is.

Bruce Perry

That is what? ;)

GullRaDriel

After TINS, coming back we are.

Bruce Perry

So you mean something like "That is true"? What would you have said in French where you said "That is"? Presumably not just "C'est" :)

Anyone else suffering a post-TINS crash of sorts? I think I slept around 3 p.m. and woke up around 10, and now it's 1 a.m. and I feel a bit aimless. Then again, my plan was to go to bed again around now and be fit for work in the morning, so maybe I'll be able to sleep again soon :)

MiquelFire

Yea, I spent the day just laying about the house, catching up on stuff.

GullRaDriel

Bruce: c'est ça ^^

Bruce Perry

I guess we'd say "That's it" :)

GullRaDriel

Acknowledged ;-p

Peter Hull

Maybe
"That's right!"
in this context?

GullRaDriel

Or just "Right !"

;-p

Bruce Perry

Libertarian or authoritarian?

GullRaDriel

I once read that one somewhere:

"I am neither left wing nor right wing. I am middle-of-the-bird." Pat Paulsen

And that one too:

"An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.
“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.” (searched and found here for reference)

jmasterx

President Leverton is a looser with no onion. >:(

GullRaDriel

HAHAHA 8-)

Johan Halmén

- What do you think about drugs?
- I have no opiumion.

GullRaDriel

Nice one two.

Rodolfo Lam

Well it's been 3 days since the last post. This cannot continue.

Is anyone into GA aircrafts? I fly a Piper PA28-161 occasionally while building hours to become an Airline pilot some day. Makes you really see how small yet big Earth is.

bamccaig

I wish I could fly. Used to dream of being a military pilot when I was a child. I don't think it's really worth all the hassle, let alone the moral dilemma, but I would love to get into ultralights or at least hang-gliding as a hobby. I can't afford it right now, but maybe some day... Skydiving is probably on the top of my bucket list.

I ride a motorcycle which is like flying 3 feet off the ground. :P

Sevalecan

Well it's been 3 days since the last post. This cannot continue.

Is anyone into GA aircrafts? I fly a Piper PA28-161 occasionally while building hours to become an Airline pilot some day. Makes you really see how small yet big Earth is.

I'm working on getting my pilot's license right now. I fly in a 1975 Cessna 172M for my training. My dad has that and a Piper Comanche 260B (PA24) that he rents as part of his business, so after I get my private, I want to get my high performance and complex rating in that plane.

Gonna have my instructor come down and do my cross country flights next weekend hopefully and then I'll just have to take the written and practical and whatnot to get my license.

bamccaig

I really wanna pilot an F-15C. :D

Rodolfo Lam
Sevalecan said:

I'm working on getting my pilot's license right now. I fly in a 1975 Cessna 172M for my training. My dad has that and a Piper Comanche 260B (PA24) that he rents as part of his business, so after I get my private, I want to get my high performance and complex rating in that plane.

That's really cool! I got my private last year on October, then got my instrument rating this year on April. Currently I'm doing cross country flights for the commercial licence. About 60 hours to go.

Astonishingly, the entire production of VFR Sectional Charts on my country ended last year (some crazy admin problems) so everyone on my flight school now uses B&W copies. Sometimes I wish the Aviation infrastructure here were as good as over there in USA. Still, you has to work with what you have and that aside, nothing beats the joy of going up to the sky. The view is always amazing.

bamccaig said:

I really wanna pilot an F-15C. :D

You are not the only one hehehe... That's one of my favorite aircrafts on the Sim.

Johan Halmén

I bet any flying is fun. But isn't hang gliding #1, if you really want to feel like flying? All the rest is like the fun of controlling an aircraft.

bamccaig

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Going Grocery Shopping

I imagine that hang gliding must be about the most fun way to "fly". Well, second most fun. I bet that "wingsuit" flying is probably more fun still, but probably lasts only a couple of minutes and has more in common with "falling" than "flying".

{"name":"Ocean_Wingsuit_Formation_%286366966219%29.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/f\/2fbfb029753f1dd25494bffcd1fb64e9.jpg","w":1024,"h":566,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/f\/2fbfb029753f1dd25494bffcd1fb64e9"}Ocean_Wingsuit_Formation_%286366966219%29.jpg

The Crazy Ones Fly 10 Feet Above A Rock Face

Gideon Weems

“The one you feed.”

Good story.

Johan Halmén

Yep. Wing suit is in one sense more flying than hang gliding. But the speed is too high. Though the speed is one fun factor in itself. Says one with absolutely no personal experience.

Bruce Perry
GullRaDriel

Hell yeah Gideon ^^ it's always nice to see ya hanging around here :-)

Gideon Weems

You, too! I think I've recovered from the butt-hurt that was a failed TINS outing. Petering out at 90% is what hurts the most.

GullRaDriel

Wasn't it at least 80% playable ?

Chris Katko

Why not finish the last 20% and post it? We'll still play it.

Mark Oates

Why not finish the last 20% and post it? We'll still play it.

totally!

Elias

Or even just post the 80% version :) [considering finishing the last 20% of a game usually takes 80% of the time...]

Bruce Perry

How could you Pyotr out at 90% and not upload something? :o

Oh well - there's always next time :)

Johan Halmén

When will next Speedhack be?
[checks a.cc start page]
Oh, I see. In 2011.

jmasterx

Happy 6/9

(Get it, 69)

All non-americans be like: What's so special about 9/6?

Bruce Perry

The Japanese appreciate it, since their date format is 2016年6月9日 :)

Srsly, in terms of levels of logicalness, Japan > everywhere else > America >:( ;)

[EDIT]
I have an evil printer (HP Photosmart 5510):

  • It promises me "rewards" for using genuine cartridges, which turn out to be 5% off some service I definitely don't want. Thanks. I cannot tell you the degree to which the misuse of that word "reward" makes me angry.

  • It kept running out of inks I wasn't even using.

  • It just refused to print in black and white because it claimed there was something wrong with the colour cartridges. Textbook Oatmeal. Also it won't even tell me what the problem is.

Well I've finally had enough and I've ordered a Brother DCP-9015CDW (I got it cheaper than that though). It's a laser (actually LED) printer, which is good for me since I don't print very often and inkjets seem to have to waste ink just to keep themselves working (but HP are still evil for the other reasons). Also it does full duplex, which is a feature I really wished I had.

I'm going to work from home today until it arrives, which could be any time between 9 and 7 (yay) :)

By the way, I didn't choose the old HP one. It was a Christmas present or something. Aren't I a grateful bastard :)

Johan Halmén

Do you say fourth of July or July the fourth?

Bruce Perry

I make a conscious effort to say "the fourth of July", even though most people around me say "July the fourth", because I think the latter is an American wording and therefore naturally it needs to be resisted. I could be wrong of course. 8-)

Mark Oates

"Fourth of July" is a special holiday, like "Christmas" or "Boxing Day".

More frequently with any other date people will say "June 30th" or "August 2nd".

Johan Halmén

people will say "June 30th"

Is that "June thirtieth" or "June the thirtieth"? I'm not a native English speaker, but to me, either sounds very technical, clumsy and shortened, not very different from "nine-eleven", while "the thirtieth of June" would sound more like natural language.

I guess I'm just affected by Swedish, my mother tongue, where we say "den trettionde juni", not "juni den trettionde". Though I wouldn't be supprised if the latter would become more popular in Sweden, where they just love to destroy their language and replace everything with English idioms.

Bruce Perry

Mark, really? What I said reflects my approach to and understanding of any date, not just that one - yet you're saying that the one date which is particularly only relevant to Americans is the one date where people DON'T use what I understood to be the American wording :o

Johan, you talk as if you emigrated - where to? :)

Johan Halmén

Johan, you talk as if you emigrated - where to?

Nope. I'm born in Finland. Swedish is spoken in Sweden, Finland and Estonia. Only in Sweden it's the main language.

Rodolfo Lam

Just keeping the thread alive gentlemen... Keep doing whatever you were doing :)

GullRaDriel

It locks too soon !

Niunio

Thankyou Rodolfo. :)

Bruce Perry
bamccaig

(NSFW)

F1hGxgv.gif

That motorcycle though. :o:-*

Append:

Relevant:

{"name":"pIlZoonMOJDX.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/3\/831ec54ed9e87c4385a08a1140ceadc7.gif","w":384,"h":256,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/3\/831ec54ed9e87c4385a08a1140ceadc7"}pIlZoonMOJDX.gif

Been there. Luckily I've avoided the parked car so far. The worst part is when you upload a GoPro video of your ride and share it with your girlfriend long forgetting that part and then realize your mistake when she gets angry. :(

Append:

I can do this for weeks. >:(

Yoga Pants

AKA: I Should Have Been A Yoga Instructor

giphy.gif

Are you guys familiar with these things? Girls just wear these things out. Like, outside. Like, to the mall. Presumably school. Greatest and worst invention ever.

Bruce Perry

This is bambams :)

{"name":"latest","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/5\/c57b9f8bb2f879ff604043ffcf56a75a.jpg","w":720,"h":480,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/5\/c57b9f8bb2f879ff604043ffcf56a75a"}latest

video

http://azumanga.wikia.com/wiki/Kimura

MiquelFire

Clearly the current topic has died, and I can't think of another one right now.

I got my PocketChip on Friday however. Now to figure what to do with it. Seems pretty powerful though. Can't wait for the combine firmware that will allow me to use both the PocketChip and the HDMI adapter.

jmasterx

O Thread! My Thread!

Chris Katko

I want to buy a thermal camera.

GullRaDriel

This morning I'm a walking dead. Last night music set repetition stopped so late that I wasn't home until 3:00 am. Alarm clocked at 7:00, and it.was.so.hard.
/mylife

jmasterx

Happy Canada Day, eh.

MiquelFire

I have a complaint! Why are the chips on credit cards so damn easy to break? For those who lived in areas where the chips were standard for over a decade, do they break often for you?

With the mag stripe, often times you can "fix" by using a plastic bag (Why it works I have no clue), but near as I can tell, not the case for chips.

Bruce Perry

I've been lucky myself.

But something that I do struggle with: trousers when you cycle a lot! Why do they break so often?

bamccaig

I have only had my chip "break" once. It literally cracked in half, along with the card surrounding it. I think just normal wear/tear from being put in and out of a wallet and sitting on it, etc. Not unreasonable. I think that the chip readers are far more vulnerable. I've been to several establishments where the cashier has to take my card and do it herself because the machine is finicky. And sometimes it just won't work at all.

We now have "contactless payment" (I can't figure out a more generic technology name/brand that applies universally) in most establishments. You just bring the non-chip end of your card into proximity of a reader and it pays without entering a pin number. Seems somewhat insecure, but I'm assuming that the banks/credit companies are assuming most of the risk (which will obviously get transferred to us, the customer)... But people don't care. Everybody uses them. They are extremely convenient. But you still have issues with them where they just don't work. Contactless is faster, but contactless + chip + pin is slower than just chip + pin. :P Also an RFID-blocking wallet is now mandatory for many cards, but it's hard to find a durable RFID-blocking wallet that won't break the bank.

MiquelFire

I wish the damage to my chip was visible.

You know, I haven't had a NFC card in a while. Seems the banks I deal with don't bother with that. The most I have is my phone.

Rodolfo Lam

The Pico-8 game console for the Pocket CHIP seems to be an interesting piece of software. It's a shame I don't know Lua or want to learn it.

MiquelFire

I think I might try to learn it. Give me a reason to use my Pocket CHIP.

bamccaig

Lua is pretty simple to learn... One of the easier languages. And it's neat.

Audric

Lua is interesting, and has good documentation. Learning Lua has taught me a lot of what Javascript can actually do. I only regret that it doesn't provide integer numbers, only floating point.

Aaron Bolyard

Lua is my favorite dynamic language. It's small, fast, and simple without sacrificing expressiveness. And then there's LuaJIT, which is incredible all around.

If I had to do web development, it would be with Lua.

Audric said:

I only regret that it doesn't provide integer numbers, only floating point.

Lua 5.2 has integers!

Audric

Well, not really. You can recompile the library to use integers instead of floats, but then many standard libraries become silently useless, as all their inputs/outputs are in integers. Not fun for math.cos()

Aaron Bolyard
Audric said:

Well, not really. You can recompile the library to use integers instead of floats, but then many standard libraries become silently useless, as all their inputs/outputs are in integers. Not fun for math.cos()

Lua does have native integer alongside floating-point as of 5.3 (see changes in readme). I mistakenly thought it was added in 5.2.

Niunio

I think we have lost the focus of this thread...

MiquelFire

Well, there's only so much you can say about the threads locking too soon. This is our protest thread about how long it takes from them to lock. We're in the talking with each other mode now.

Bruce Perry

So, who wants to hug Aaron's avatar? :)

MiquelFire

Nah, not cat enough for me.

bamccaig

Anybody tried this "Pokemon Go" game? Pokemon didn't come along until I was past the target age so I have no particular attachment to the idea, but nevertheless it sounds like it might be a fun way to kill time while out and about waiting on people or things... The install is "free" and the required permissions don't seem entirely unreasonable. The only problem is, the app says its incompatible with my Samsung Galaxy S5... I can't figure out why. Anybody know? Apparently people are acquiring APKs from third party mirrors and are able to install them and run them just fine, but I'm not sure if I want to extend my already stretched trust to a third party repository/APK...

Elias

I saw weird guys running all over the metro park yesterday staring at their phones. Normally when I do my daily walk there I'm the only person...

Anyway, I feel no desire to install the app myself.

Aaron Bolyard

So, who wants to hug Aaron's avatar?

Ditto is my favorite ;D.

Story: I was playing Pokemon LeafGreen (first time playing the game, around 14? 16?). Wanted to get to the next town (Fuschia City) and avoid the trainers along the long stretch of path/road from the eastern entrance, so I went in the grass. First step into the grass a battle started, and in front of me was a smiling piece of recently chewed bubblegum.

In that stroke of luck and laziness, I had seen the most incredible Pokemon to ever exist.

Edgar Reynaldo

In the spirit of this thread, my TorontoCon thread got locked before we were done with it. So if you wanna come to Toronto, post here! It looks like Elias might be able to make it! I haven't heard back from Oates yet, and I sent him a PM a few days ago.

As for Pokémon Go, my friend showed me what you do - basically walk around a virtual world and try to catch pokemon with pokeballs. I can imagine I would get really bored with that really quickly.

bamccaig

I am now suspecting that the only reason Google Play Store tells me my phone is incompatible with PG is because it hasn't been released in Canada yet... So presumably I'll be able to try it when they release in Canada, if they can ever manage the server overhead to do it... I guess it wasn't a problem with my device after all.

I don't expect it'll be a fun game. It will probably be really lame. But I'm not interested in downloading it because I'm interested in the game... I'm interested in some way to pass time when I'm stuck "out" in a public place with nothing to do waiting for some event, like say I'm waiting for somebody to arrive or to finish something, just sitting on a bench in a mall... Normally I'll pull out of my phone and try to pass the time. This might be a neat way to do that. If it means I get to deprive other people of catching "pokemon" that might be entertaining too!

Bruce Perry

Why not download Akebi and learn some kanji instead? :)

Elias

@Edgar: Just booked! We'll be in the Country Inn & Suites Niagara Falls on 23rd - should be within walking distance of the falls and most things there :)

[edit:] Oh, just realized, since this is Canada... should I expect my phone to not work? Or is it close enough to the border that it will?

bamccaig

I wouldn't count on it working. At least, make sure roaming is off or it might work and cost a fortune... I live in a border city too (same concept, but a bit smaller). I'm not sure if I can get American towers from home, but I know that you can jump when you're by the river if you have roaming enabled (which is like <1 km from the border). I doubt it would cover the entire city though.

Rodolfo Lam

Talking about cellphone fees... How did USA end up having such overpriced data plans? Last time I checked you could end up paying more than $30.00 for a monthly plan.

Movistar here in Panamá offers a data only (calls prepaid) monthly plan of 1GB for $9.99. And when you travel anywhere in the Americas you can continue using that same data for a $5.00 daily fee on a opt-in basis.

It's a great deal if you know what specific days of your trip you will need the cellular data available.

How much can roaming cost right now for US carriers?

Elias

I paid about $5/month for 4GB back in Austria. Now I pay $50/month for 2GB. So yes, in the US you pay 10 to 20 times as much for mobile data :(

Anyway, according to Google the area where my hotel will be should be close enough to the border to still find a US signal (some posts say only if you stand on the roof though :P). But there's WIFI anyway.

Edgar Reynaldo

I subscribe to Verizon, and they have a Travel Pass, which allows you to use Canadian towers and service. It's charged by the day, but it will allow me access to their service.

Derezo

In Canada I have Rogers' flex data plan (typically 3GB for $50) and a Voip.MS account for texting/calls (~$2/mo). The data plan can be as cheap as $10 if I use less than 100mb, but I typically use 2GB or more.

Bruce Perry

I'm on something like £7 a month for 500 MB of data, 200 minutes of calls and pretty much unlimited text messages. I even get free calls to 0800 numbers :)

That was a SIM-only deal and I bought my phone separately. Are you guys talking about SIM-only or do you get a phone with those 'deals'?

bamccaig

I pay $50/mo. for 1 GB of data, unlimited calls in Canada, and unlimited texts. That is just the service. I paid $800 cash for my S5 on top of that.

Bruce Perry

Well, Canada and the USA both have a sparser population than the UK, so perhaps the infrastructure cost per person is greater?

Elias

Thanks a lot to Edgar and Mark, this was an awesome Allegro meetup in Niagara falls today! Despite run-ins with police and way to hot weather... :)

Polybios

The much-hated Brussels bureaucrats will ban roaming fees in the EU in 2017.

Were the police investigating your mind-control powers?

Bruce Perry

Ah yes, the fabled American police. It seems a lot more real when I hear that someone I know to be nice in person (you Elias - maybe it was Edgar or Mark who triggered them ;) [1]) has had a run-in with them ...

In this country, the only time I've had the police be nasty to me was when I actually did something wrong (cycling without lights), and even then, they waived their right to fine me because at least I had a non-working front light with me and had tried to display a back light on my backpack but it was pointing down :)

A passport control person once gave me an unhinged stare though. He looked like Jason Statham. I think it was in Germany.

P.S. At least we'll be in the EU long enough to benefit from that roaming ban. :-/

[EDIT]
I just re-read my post and realised how boring it is and how much value there is in sometimes saying less :-X Would you agree that I talk to much and never shut up? Mind you there are definitely people who are worse for this than I am, not mentioning names or anything. Must catch up with that person. For the thread's sake. Yeah.

References

  1. Totally jealous.
Elias

Well, in Canada things like pepper spray or drinking in public are illegal - so it's easy for a group of allegro.cc members to get in trouble :P

I think Mark will post a pictures, but Edgar requested to be photoshopped out for privacy concern reasons...

bamccaig

Drinking in public is only illegal if you get caught, particularly if you're out of control!

Derezo

Just use a Tim Hortons cup, that's how all Canadians drink in public. ;)

Johan Halmén
bamccaig said:

Drinking in public is only illegal if you get caught...

How exactly is this phrased in the law?

Derezo

Well, it's a fine.. so... basically if you don't get caught you don't have to pay it! ;D

Arthur Kalliokoski

10 month duration thread locks too soon?

Edgar Reynaldo

Here's a picture of us at a restaurant in Niagara. Mama mia or something?

{"name":"610478","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/2\/c2c9870b152ad11e6fb8236ca63e8c99.jpg","w":1024,"h":768,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/2\/c2c9870b152ad11e6fb8236ca63e8c99"}610478

Left to right : Elias, Andrea, Mark, Edgar

Arthur Kalliokoski

Somehow I tend to imagine members as looking at least somewhat like their avatar, in Edgars case I imagined him as the guy on the left...

MiquelFire

At least you don't have to guess too hard at what I look like with mine. It is my Mii after all. :P

bamccaig

You forgot to tag the Canadian sitting on the table.

Append:

Shameful. Finally an AllegroCon in Canada and none of the native born Canadians show up. :(

Elias

I like that picture :D

@bambams: The beer bottle is a native born Canadian!

Derezo
Elias said:

The beer bottle is a native born Canadian!

Molson married Coors from the US some years ago, so it's hardly even Canadian anymore either >:(

Elias

Oh no, so I actually had US beer? :o Anyway, it tasted good :) I also had some Canadian craft beer but I generally prefer non-craft beer, just more refined tastes in my experience :)

amarillion

Of the US beers, I like blue moon. Or is that also a craft beer?

LennyLen

in Edgars case I imagined him as the guy on the left...

That would be Doctor Who.

GullRaDriel

Meh.

Looks like it's a time to put a picture of your face. I finally can see how Mark & Edgar look ^^

Elias

I like Blue Moon, surprisingly - considering it's a wheat beer. My favorite beers are lagers, so whenever I'm not up to trying some craft I usually order Heineken. Not the best but often the closest thing they have on the menu :)

Edgar Reynaldo

Whenn I drink beer, which isn't often, I usually like dark beers like stouts and Guinness

bamccaig

I predominantly drink lagers, though I'm not overly versed or concerned with the type of beer. Molson Canadian is my go-to if I'm out since pubs/bars/restaurants don't carry the "cheap" stuff. If I'm in the US I revert to Budweiser or Bud Light (it's arbitrary). If I'm at a private residence (or anywhere really) I'll drink whatever is free. In my experience, the best beer is Carling (the Canadian lager variant, including its light variant if you want to get slightly less drunk by volume). Beer is best from a dark bottle. I'm not sure how common bottles are in the US, but it seems not very. Beer from a can just isn't the same, but it's better than no beer at all. But generally beer in the US is just different no matter what brand it is. I imagine the regulations very slightly. Living in a border city you can experience both readily.

LennyLen

Speaking of beer, does anyone else here use the Untappd app? If so, feel free to add me for recommendations. I'm LennyLen on there as well.

edit:

bamccaig said:

Beer is best from a dark bottle.

If being drunk from a bottle, then yes, dark brown bottles are the best as they cut out more light which can alter/damage the chemical structure of beer. Ideally though, drink beer on tap/draught as kegs are (usually) always fresher and eliminate light contamination altogether. Also, if the brewer has specific glasses for the beer, use them. This will ensure that the head on the beer is of the ideal size and consistency.

Bruce Perry

I downgraded both my computers from Windows 10 back to Windows 7 this week. One of them now has a non-functioning Visual Studio 2015, and every installation/repair/removal attempt using any version of the installer I have fails in a different, exciting way. I'm now doing a same-version in-place 'upgrade' in an attempt to repair the whole operating system. So much fun, but it'll be worth it for a prolonged Aero experience. ;D :o

SRSLY. Windows 10 actually has quite a few nice improvements to it and whatnot, but having those pretty glassy windows turned out to matter more to me. I mainly just feel sorry for Microsoft - how could they get it so, so wrong? :(

OnlineCop

Bruce: Be sure to install something like GWX Control Panel which will stop those Windows 7 "updates" which nag/force you to upgrade (back) to Windows 10.

MiquelFire

Actually, that's gone now. MS even removed it from Windows Update.

Never10 is a better program anyway to stop it.

Bruce Perry

Finally got Visual Studio working again. Read some of my story here ;)

What I didn't describe there is how I removed and tried to reinstall the .NET Framework, found that the Dell touchpad settings were wrong and the application for editing them now crashed, did a fresh install of Windows 7, copied my old user directory back in, found out that the Dell touchpad settings wouldn't run without the .NET Framework, found that .NET Framework 4 froze installing just like on the old install, and - wahoo! - fudged around with directories from the Windows 7 installation DVD maintenance command prompt to get my old Windows install back, installed .NET Framework 4.6.2 or some such, and graaaaaadually fixed Visual Studio as described in the link.

Yeaaaah Windows 7 <3

Johan Halmén

how could they get it so, so wrong?

Experience?

Edgar Reynaldo

I don't have many gripes about Windows 10. Overall I like it. It does what it's supposed to, and for the most part it stays out of my way. One thing I hate is the automatic restarts. They let you "schedule" them for a little while, but then they give you a cutoff and force you to restart your computer. All due to Windows Update. I don't use the Windows app store, and all the junk they put on the start menu just gets in the way. So I use desktop shortcuts instead of the start menu. My desktop still isn't so cluttered I can't get anything done, and the desktop shortcut works for most purposes, even if it loads a little bit slowly. I'm not terribly fond of the way windows are grouped on the taskbar, but it is better than having one taskbar button for every single window there is open. That gets a little out of hand. For the most part it just does what I want. Have only had a small handful of bluescreens, and I think that was due to buggy Microsoft Word in Office 2015 doing something it shouldn't have.

Still can't stand MSVS. I love my CodeBlocks, and I'm sticking with it.

Bruce Perry

In fairness, MSVS for C++ is a mess. For C# it's better, and that's what I mostly use it for.

The taskbar button grouping system is the same in Windows 7 and 8 as in 10 - did you come from one of those, or from something else? Do you have an OS in mind that has a better scheme?

Edgar Reynaldo

As per the taskbar app grouping, I don't mind. I came from Vista, where there was one button for every window, so it's an improvement for me. But what I don't like about it is the preview pane. Sometimes it shows tabs, sometimes it shows windows. I'd rather it just showed the windows that are open. But it treats tabs like they are windows. Perhaps that is application specific behaviour though. I noticed that in Windows 10, SeaMonkey "forgets" screen contents and I have to double restore the window before it shows everything again. Same thing with FireFox. It may be a D3D device lost issue, I don't know.

Bruce Perry

The tabs thing does seem to be a decision the application makes. I think I saw it in some other browser (Firefox?) a long time ago. I didn't like it either :)

MiquelFire

If Firefox does it, I had disabled it already and forgotten about it. I know at some point it was an option, and I can't remember if it's opt-in or opt-out.

Derezo

Windows 10 is kind of annoying because of the "apps" being separate from usual applications and getting that annoying window theme and behaviour. I don't use them on purpose and replace them with non-windows-app apps when needed, but things like opening the calculator and having it ask you for a rating just feels dumb. The theme in general is a step backwards in my opinion.

I find the new start menu less intuitive and clunkier to use, taking more clicks and occupying more screen real estate. I usually just hit the windows key and start typing what I want though, and that still works.

At work I'm still on Windows 7, but we're switching soon. The most annoying thing is that I love cubic explorer, but it doesn't work on Windows 10.

bamccaig

The start menu is definitely a clusterfuck, but fortunately you don't need it very often (well, I certainly don't working from the command line). I pin most applications to the taskbar. The rarely used ones can be found with search.

You still need hacks to change taskbar entries into icons with no text and without grouping instances. You needed a registry hack in Windows 7, but now you actually need a black magic executable to do it. In any case, I find that configuration preferable because it's less hover time to get where you're going and it takes up less space.

I don't know if people are forgetting or just don't care, but the absolute worst part about Windows 10 is that it spies on you and calls home regularly, the details of which are proprietary and secret... I use it at work where I generally care less that it spies on me. I do most of my private stuff in a Linux VM, though I imagine just capturing keystrokes and possibly mouse coordinates would be enough to reverse engineer plenty of data and behavior.

At home I don't even run Windows at the moment. I'm reluctantly running Ubuntu MATE for Valve's Ubuntu Steam support and MATE's superior desktop experience. I don't really have many complaints, aside from the fact that it might spy too by default (or if not Ubuntu then perhaps the proprietary drivers and codecs and software used to make things work so easily). Hopefully the Ubuntu MATE folks remove the call-home stuff (I think it was mainly part of Unity). It sounds like other official flavors don't include it so I bet unofficial flavors don't either. From the sounds of it, they've since resolved the privacy concerns, but I'm not sure I trust them unless the code is free (and I'm not sure that it is). I don't know that they could be as bad as Microsoft or Apple, but I'm still begrudged to settle for less than libre.

Derezo

The privacy issue with Windows 10 saddens me. I've heard you can get around it with a good firewall setup.

Bruce Perry
bamccaig said:

You still need hacks to change taskbar entries into icons with no text and without grouping instances. You needed a registry hack in Windows 7, but now you actually need a black magic executable to do it.

Do you really mean taskbar entries here? As I understand it, they default to icons without text in both OSes, and if you don't like the grouping, then, in Windows 7 at least, you can right-click the taskbar -> Properties -> Taskbar buttons: Never combine.

[EDIT] Oh, I see - then it shows labels, which you don't want.

bamccaig

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Correct. As an aside, I also encourage the use of "use small taskbar buttons" which will turn them into much smaller icons so you can fit many more on the screen. This is only practical if the default size runs onto a separate page with your screen and default workflow. Normally mine is fine with my monitor at work, but if I have my work laptop on the go then they do flow off the screen of the laptop display in the default size. Shrinking the icons helps them all remain visible (since I pin all regularly used applications, they take up space regardless of whether they're running or not).

Matthew Leverton

I care about Windows 10 as much as my new baby daughter does. ::)

Bruce Perry

She probably came with Windows 10 preinstalled ;)

bamccaig

Congratulations! ???

Niunio

Windows 7 is the new Windows XP... ::)

Rodolfo Lam

So in some years from now (and still on this thread) we will be talking about how Microsoft will just end support for Windows 7 if it is still a very good OS

Gideon Weems

I would love to go 15 years back in time and show the following to Microsoft:

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Mark Oates

Bump!

bamccaig

Good catch, Mark!

My latest news is two-fold. "Yesterday" (40 minutes ago) was my birthday, you bastards. Alas, work is crazy right now. I've worked 3 12-hour days in a row. I'm averaging 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night. I'm salary so I won't even get overtime pay. Blargh.

A week ago I ordered a Steam Controller online while drunk. I saved like CAD$5 on it so shrug. I also burned CAD$40 on virtual items in CS:GO. That I somewhat regret. I digress.

The controller wasn't expected to be delivered until next week, but alas they tried to deliver yesterday and my girlfriend managed to pick it up "today"! Which is my birthday! So that's pretty cool.

First impressions

  • Better aiming than a laptop track-pad.

  • Worse than a keyboard and mouse.

  • Probably slightly better than an analog stick, but harder to compare.

  • I did my initial testing in CS:GO.

* I was playing against bots, not humans.
* At first on "harmless" level. Then "easy" and "medium".
* I won each battle with bots, but the "medium" was noticeably hard. I had to strategize for my "handicap".
* In theory, you could do fairly well with one if you were skilled enough, but it probably won't change the world overnight.
* I'm curious what children will accomplish with it. They have younger, more eager brains.

I don't really regret it. I've wanted one since I heard about it and now I have one. It's not bad technology. I imagine with practice it will become more natural. I can say that I'm not disappointed with my performance using it. In my first 15 minutes I was doing half-good against bots. People with a mouse and keyboard would rape my face, but some of them do anyway after 9 years of experience. I think that a match against other people with a controller, regardless the type, might give the Steam Controller an advantage. Only time will tell..

MiquelFire

For me, the best use for the Steam Controller is when a game is keyboard only on PC, even though it was a port from console. And for games that natively supports controllers, but you can't reconfigure them.

BTW Bam, you try the gryo on the controller yet? It seems that might bring you even closer to mouse than the trackpad like thing you're mostly used already.

bamccaig

BTW Bam, you try the gryo on the controller yet? It seems that might bring you even closer to mouse than the trackpad like thing you're mostly used already.

No, I have not. I naively assume it will be useless similar to the "Wiimote" and "PlayStation Wand" or whatever. I can't imagine how you could have 360 X ~90 degrees of movement without the screen turning with you. Perhaps you could get used to using the gyro for precise adjustments though? In my experience with the PlayStation wand things, the computer picks up unintentional movements too and that screws you over.

MiquelFire

You don't point it at any screen. It works the same as how your phone detects how you're holding it. Three axis to play with... I'm going to assume it has a compass in it of sorts because when you hold it parallel to a table, you can tilt it back and front, left and right, AND it detects turning as if you have a steering wheel sticking out of your table.

I haven't played enough games to get used to the gyro yet, and when I tried it, it's annoying that the game I tried it with, left with two usable buttons to really use it. Don't want to use that unless you're aiming after all.

bamccaig

Strictly speaking I think that a "gyroscope" is able to detect rotations in any direction (including rotating horizontally on the y axis, as a compass needle might). So that much makes sense. I just fail to understand how this is supposed to be better to control a game whose view port is 2 dimensional and a mere sliver of the 3D space in the game world. Necessarily either you turn away from the view port or your motion is constrained preventing you from using the gyro for full control.

jmasterx

One year anniversary of this thread coming up on the 26th. We should do something special to celebrate. I'm so proud of us all >:(

Elias

There's still a chance it gets locked before that...

Niunio
jmasterx said:

One year anniversary of this thread coming up on the 26th. We should do something special to celebrate. I'm so proud of us all >:(

Yes, we're awesome. A logo would be nice.

Elias said:

There's still a chance it gets locked before that...

I'm not sure that would happen. May be the forum thread counter will overflow before that. Actually we're testing Matt's programming skills right now.

MiquelFire

Are we even close to a record in terms of number of posts yet?

bamccaig

I believe I recall thousand-post threads in the past so we probably aren't close to the record in terms of post count yet, but I suspect we're getting close in terms of length of time open (unless maybe they didn't automatically close in the beginning).

Gideon Weems

This is post #657. I wonder who will get the Post of the Devil.

Edgar Reynaldo

Not it. ;)

I'm waiting for post #777. :D

MiquelFire

You know... if Gideon's post is #657, then the posts are zero based... but the Post of the Devil number is using a one base numbering system... so post #665 is the Post of the Devil?

Mark Oates

You know... if Gideon's post is #657, then the posts are zero based... but the Post of the Devil number is using a one base numbering system... so post #665 is the Post of the Devil?

I think you're right, actually.

Edgar Reynaldo

Oates post is #661. You're off by one because you're not counting the OP. Gideon was reply #657. If you're going to nitpick, at least do it right.

Still not it. ;)

GullRaDriel

Hell, I would have loved to be the devil.

But I can't let the thread die >:(

Mark Oates

Not it!!

That would be funny if the thread died because nobody wanted to be #666. ;D

GullRaDriel

That can't be.

Bruce Perry

Yoink. 8-)

bamccaig

>:(

Gideon Weems

Sniped!

video

Onewing

Ha! This is the first time I've seen this thread. I never look in this section of the forums. I feel I've been missing out. :'(

Bruce Perry

Welcome! Bambams will show you around :)

bamccaig

This should pretty much sum it up:

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MiquelFire

Whatever the source of that image is, it looks REALLY poorly made.

Edgar Reynaldo

It does what it is supposed to.

EDIT
101 I could watch that internet fight gif all day long. xD

Niunio

That gif with that Iron Maiden music is just EPIC. Some parts are actually synchronised!

bamccaig

Thank you for ^ that. I have flash blockers that prevent it from loading on-load, but I see what you mean. :)

Gideon Weems

Shh... nobody say a thing...

jmasterx

Shh... nobody say a thing...

BamBam is an SJW >:(

Edgar Reynaldo

I don't know what SJW means. >:(

Nor do I want to. >:(

Mark Oates
Quote:

I don't know what SJW means. >:(

Nor do I want to. >:(

Basically all you need to know is that it's what bambam is.

bamccaig

Sexy Jazzy Wallflower 8-)

I you knew what an SJW really was you wouldn't call me one unless you were defective. ::)

Elias

A SJW is someone who thinks they are something but really are the opposite. So maybe bambams sort of is one.

Polybios

Now I don't know whether you mean bambam is nothing (as opposed to something) or a feminist if we suppose that this was the opposite of an anti-feminist. How confusing.

Mark Oates
Elias said:

A SJW is someone who thinks they are something but really are the opposite. So maybe bambams sort of is one.

;D;D;D

bamccaig

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>:( :'(

Rodolfo Lam

Soo... how is it that you know what is the number of your post? I have a.cc configured to show unlimited posts, if that affects something. Now don't tell me I ended up with the 666 one please xD

bamccaig

Based on the index "replies" count at the time. Bruce Perry got 665 replies (which would be 666 total "posts" in the thread). I got the 666 reply. You're way too late. :D

Bruce Perry

And Boobuigi got the 667th reply, which would be 666 in a 0-indexed array that excludes the original post :)

Mark Oates

My understanding of 666 is that the curse lies in the 666th thing, and not necessarily things that are labeled 666.

So the 1st post would be the 1st thing, the 2nd would be the 2nd thing, regardless of being 0-indexed.

That would make both the 666th post and the 666th reply cursed. Both would qualify depending on how you look at it. But the 667th reply, being 0-indexed, would not qualify.

Edgar Reynaldo

It's not cursed. ::) It's the mark of the beast. That's Satan's number. It is also sometimes attributed to Emperor Nero.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast#Nero

You can read about it in Revelations 12-14.

Revelations 13:9-18 KJV said:

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Those that take the mark of the beast will be punished by God. See Revelations 14.

Revelations 14:9-11 KJV said:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Elias
Quote:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Oh no. Poor Bruce and bambams :(

Bruce Perry

Proof by contradiction of religion being a load of nonsense:

If bringing up religion is the only way to keep this thread open, then there must be another way.

8-)

Edgar Reynaldo

You guys brought religion into it when you brought up 666. That's where it came from.

And if religion is the only way to keep this thread open, this forum is lamer than I thought.

Bruce Perry

Oh dear. I thought it was obvious I was just trolling :-/

Edgar Reynaldo

Oh dear. I thought it was obvious I was just trolling :-/

You forgot to put on your troll face. :/ I didn't recognize you. ;)

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Proof by contradiction of religion being a load of nonsense:

Is this nonsense? It perfectly describes what happens every time someone here brings up the Bible. It's a moral story. By all means, please show me how it's inaccurate or unapplicable or inappropriate or untrue or how it contradicts itself.

Mark Chapter 4

Mark 4 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Parable of the Sower

4 Again he began to teach beside the sea. And a very large crowd gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat in it on the sea, and the whole crowd was beside the sea on the land. 2 And he was teaching them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them: 3 “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it. 5 Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil. 6 And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. 8 And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.” 9 And he said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

The Purpose of the Parables

10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that

“‘they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.’”

13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.[a] 18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

MiquelFire

So a game I was interested had a contest on their forums in which you could win a press preview key so you can play early. I somehow won with 2 votes (and one of those votes was me voting myself). I'm curious to know how many keys he had at the ready to release for early access.

Polybios

I think we should make a game about bible quotations.

Bruce Perry

So, as usual, I won't try and argue against your religion but I do ask you to respect my choice not to believe and don't try and insinuate that it will adversely affect me in any way.

But I'll show you how to recognise my earlier post as a troll :)

Proof by contradiction of religion being a load of nonsense:

If bringing up religion is the only way to keep this thread open, then there must be another way.

So, this is almost a proof by contradiction, but if it proves anything, it only proves that bringing up religion is not the only way to keep this thread open. In fact it probably doesn't prove that because the assertion that "there must be another way" isn't justified.

It certainly doesn't prove that religion is a load of nonsense, but I guess you have to think like a mathematician (and have seen proofs by contradiction before) to see that and therefore recognise the troll. A proof by contradiction goes, "Let's suppose the opposite is true; now we find a contradiction, and thereby we know that the opposite isn't true." For example, sqrt(2) can't be expressed as p/q for two integers, because if you did that, you can prove that p and q are both even, which contradicts the fact that the fraction could then always be simplified until one is odd.

Edgar Reynaldo

If the moon is made of cheddar, then hell must not exist.

Proof by contradiction??? Whatever.

I'll respect your right to forsake eternal life when you respect my right not to have my religion called nonsense.

bamccaig

Neither of these things are "rights". :-/ Damn all of your gods and spaghetti monsters! >:(

Bruce Perry

Fair point - I guess I deserved the insinuation - this time ;) And Islam is in much more dire need of being challenged than Christianity is.

bambams, you just damned yourself ;D

Mark Oates

phew! My concerns that this thread might have lost steam are no more! ;D

beoran

This kind of goes to show that a thread can go on here without getting locked if there is enough interest in keeping it alive. Maybe that is the key then to keep a topic going: you have to to raise enough intrest in it somehow.

Onewing

respect my choice not to believe

I'm curious, agnostic or atheistic? Were you always that way or did you shift into this position at one point or over time? Tell me to shut up if I'm prying too much. :D

I was raised in the Bible Belt, but I try to be open-minded. Religious texts are written by humans so that opens them all up to falsities. I imagine I'm shifting to agnostic theist. :)

Edgar Reynaldo

For bambams...

Exodus 20:5-6 said:

I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

bamccaig

For Edgar...

When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Bruce Perry

I wouldn't like to say whether I'm agnostic or atheist. However, I think I have two key characteristics that brought me to my current view. The first is that I tend to think very precisely; natural languages are as rigorous as programming languages for me. With this, I noticed contradictions and inconsistencies where perhaps others let it wash over them and instead noticed either a confidence and safety in the way things were preached, or a safety in numbers because enough other people believed.

The second is that I consciously notice psychological effects things have on me, and at church, I felt shamed and didn't find that acceptable.

So, despite having gone to church in a time of loneliness and misery after years of rejection, and having wanted to give it every possible chance, and despite the congregation being full of nice people, the actual church experience as I underwent it pushed me away.

This is despite definitely having been brought up in a Christian culture. I went through infant school and came out with no clear distinction in my mind between bible stories and (do I need to say 'non-biblical' here, Edgar?) history.

Relatedly, I always wanted to believe in ghosts but couldn't honestly say I'd ever seen one, nor compelling evidence of one. In this case I find it unfortunate, since some of the best stories are ghost stories.

Back to agnostic vs atheist: certainly I believe that every possible religion we have on this planet was created by people and is subject to survival of the fittest just like animals: if a religion is popular, it's because it contains mechanisms that help it spread. This could be positive (they offer a lot of value) or negative (they brainwash, or they were forced upon people by dictators or some such), but either way, it's clear to me that these things are a human creation and have nothing to do with why the universe is here or other philosophical questions like that. So I'm atheist if we are talking about world religions, but agnostic in the sense that we don't actually know why the universe is here and we shouldn't just say there's nothing to it beyond what we can see.

Onewing

Well said. Appreciate your thought process.

I like to take religion out of the equation and ask myself: are we here because of a series of events that played out over a long period time or is there some entity that exists in our current unknown who is connected to us somehow? At that, the best I can do is choose one to believe in and make it known that I clearly don't know the answer to that question.

I've been stewing on that for a while and what exactly that means for each path.

Edgar Reynaldo
bamccaig said:

For Edgar...

Stephen F Roberts, alt.atheism [freelink.wildlink.com] said:

When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I dismiss all other "gods" because they're not worth worshipping. I know from experience the only true God is the LORD. I fully believe there are other "gods" out there, but as far as I'm concerned they're simply devils in disguise. Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light.

12 And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

This goes out to you too, Bruce. Your experience in church was less than positive, and for that I am sorry. But you don't have to go to church to worship God, or to find acceptance. And you find God by seeking him with all your heart, and he will reveal himself to you. He sent his Son Jesus, his Living Word, to testify to himself. God is found in the Bible, and only coincidentally at some churches.

11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. 13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

The second is that I consciously notice psychological effects things have on me, and at church, I felt shamed and didn't find that acceptable.

So, despite having gone to church in a time of loneliness and misery after years of rejection, and having wanted to give it every possible chance, and despite the congregation being full of nice people, the actual church experience as I underwent it pushed me away.

If you feel shame, it's either because you've done wrong, or because you haven't forgiven yourself for doing so. Jesus taught the forgiveness of sin upon repentance, and where sin is forgiven, it is no more, and should no longer weigh upon you. Jesus came to set us free, not to put us in chains.

The Truth Will Set You Free

31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; ithe son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. 38 I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

Rodolfo Lam

Let me change the topic slightly...

Does anyone in the world right now is actually using or thinking to use the UWP API? Specifically the C++ side.

I got interested on it, but found that the only real documentation available is directly from Microsoft. There is not a single book or web guide available about the subject.

Am I alone? Hello? Is it dead on arrival? Will Allegro ever support it as it currently supports WIN32?

MiquelFire

You use Windows 10? Well, I won't be able to play with whatever you built with UWP because I'm still on 7

Bruce Perry

Oh give it up, Edgar.

I tried Windows 10, didn't like the aesthetics, didn't appreciate the feeling that Microsoft think they have a better idea of what I want to do than I do, and went back to Windows 7. This is true even on my home computer where I have 32 GB of which Windows 7 Home is only willing to use 16.

I know I'm not alone with this, so I would urge everyone to continue targeting Windows 7. :)

Rodolfo Lam

Ok...Guess I'll pretend that I never talked about UWP and that it does not exist xD, seems no one else cares about it so it is not worth the effort.

Move along people, next subject please. Thread will not remain open by itself

Johan Halmén

What things in Windows 7 were broken, which Windows 10 fixed?

Bruce Perry

Call-home functionality :)

On a more serious note, here are some of the benefits I noticed upgrading to Windows 10:

  • All Windows 10 editions will use some number of TB of memory if you have it (contrast with Windows 7 Home which refuses to use more than 16 GB).

  • When you edit environment variables containing lists of paths, you get a nice editor with a list and Add/Edit/Remove/Browse buttons and whatnot. However, you can also get this on Windows 7 by installing something like RapidEE.

  • You can have multiple desktops, although it felt a bit weird to me.

  • I think there's a 'disable all notifications' mode, and although I can immediately see the benefit, I didn't really get into a situation where I wanted to try it out. You can also deal with this in Windows 7 by closing the programs that are notifying you (mainly e-mail).

That's all I can think of at the moment, and I think the final straw with Windows 10 was when I tried to copy and paste a number out of the calculator in 'programming' mode, and it put left-to-right directives in the copied string, which Visual Studio didn't accept and also didn't make visible. Well done Microsoft. ::) For completeness, here are some more gripes I had with Windows 10:

  • Ugly. I don't want everything to be rectfill();.

  • Resizing windows: the cursor has to be within the window outline at the top, but outside on the other sides. It's just not consistent. There needs to be a visible border for dragging.

  • Too many places where Microsoft shoves content down your throat. My computer's job is to help me do what I want to do, not serve as a portal for Microsoft to push me around. Incidentally I have this gripe with much of the modern Internet and if anything, it has taught me the value of time off the grid. :)

Polybios

Call-home functionality

My first encounter with Windows 10 was when a not-so-tech-savvy friend phoned me while he was doing the upgrade (I don't remember whether intentionally or not). He asked me "what boxes to check" during installation and this way he read me all the privacy-related settings over the phone. It was a really long list and I was like "WTF? I didn't see any of those in Windows 7".

When I've worked with it I've found it ridiculous that there's basically two variants of control panel. That means you have to look at two places when you're looking for a specific setting. Didn't spend much time with it, so maybe the brilliance just went past me.

bamccaig

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Windows_Platform#Use_as_gaming_platform

*cough*

The only use for it is as evidence that nothing has changed.

Johan Halmén

I need a tool for merging several pdf files into one. After searching, I read somewhere that Windows 10 includes something for that. But then I found a tiny simple application that does the same. So I'm sticking with Win 7.

Bruce Perry

To merge several PDF files into one:

  • Go into your account settings.

  • Set Posts Per Page to Unlimited.

  • Save as PDF once more.

Just sorry to hear you spent so much time saving 29 separate PDFs before you discovered this option 8-)

Johan Halmén

I had very long hair. Once I went to sleep straight after sauna, without using any conditioner. I woke up with rasta hair.

Dreadlocks too soon.

Bruce Perry

Happy birthday! \ö/

Turns out posting to this particular thread from my ageing Android phone is quite a challenge ;o

Gideon Weems

Story time. Long ago, a village in Africa was terrorized by wild monkeys. Each night, they would ransack the villagers' homes--all except for that of the village baker. Curious, the chief approached the baker and asked him why.

"Bread blocks baboon."

GullRaDriel

Dear "Thread locks too soon", I'll never give you up.
8-)

OnlineCop

When designing my computer for VR, I specifically opted for the minimum-specs system and OS so I could ensure that the game still worked consistently for others with the same minimum spec setup. The only spec I didn't leave at the minimum was the RAM, since I need more for development. But I had a bit of a time finding a Windows 7 Pro disk that didn't cost just as much as a Windows 8/10 disk (finally found a good physical copy on Bonanaza for under 30 bucks).

I hated the feel of Windows 8 as soon as I sat down to it, and only touched Windows 10 in store kiosks, so I'll be staying with 7 until (and possibly after) its EOL. It kinda sucks that I can't do some of the cooler games that I've seen (regular and VR) because they require UWP, but I think I can live without them for the time being.

Bruce Perry

Gull, was that a rickroll? ;)

OnlineCop - I want your keyboard <3

jmasterx

Thread.Poke();

bamccaig

Yesterday my finacee and I learned how to make homemade pasta sauce. Aside from being a bit watery, the result was very promising. However, now my wrist is killing me and I suspect it's a result of stirring the sauce for an hour or so... As a programmer, obviously any wrist pain worries me considerably...

Edgar Reynaldo

Oh noes! Bam's got limp wrist syndrome! Whatever shall we do without our fearless BamBam??? You've got to give up pasta sauce, and food, and your girlfriend immediately, and come back to your senses. You belong with us bambams!

Polybios

I've just removed about 7000 lines of the most horrible, very old code from my project. Deleting something can feel so rewarding. 8-)

bamccaig said:

stirring the sauce for an hour or so

:o What kind of pasta sauce was that?

bamccaig

It's supposed to cook all night ideally (the longer the better), but we only cooked it for 6 or 7 hours give or take... We were visiting her aunt and uncle who taught us the process. So naturally we didn't want to leave our pot of sauce as a burden to their kitchen... I stirred for an hour as we prepared it in parts and tried to get it boiling... It took about that long to prepare all the batches (remember, we made about 14 litres and the tools were not as large as the pot). I stirred it primarily to avoid burning it to the bottom of the pot... Lucky I did because even stirring the entire time the heat was above minimum we still ended up with a somewhat charred bottom to the pot.. Fortunately, it was a thin layer and it came off pretty easily... Otherwise, you might as well throw the pot away. Alas, it appears to be an aluminum pot so it isn't quite as strong or heat tolerant as we might prefer. Her aunt has a heavy "steel" pot that is probably better suited to the job. In any case, it should be pretty similar to an Italian sauce, but if there are any residents from the "homeland" (i.e., Italy) present (I seem to recall a few) your own perspective is welcome...

Derezo
bamccaig said:

Yesterday my finacee and I learned how to make homemade pasta sauce. Aside from being a bit watery, the result was very promising.

I started taking Taekwondo recently and they're having a speghetti sauce competition. I registered to enter a sauce, as I've made a number of great sauces in the past and figured I'd have a shot. Apparently there's a trophy :o

Gideon Weems

One of my most productive days was throwing away 1,000 lines of code.

By my math, Polybios is seven times more productive than Ken Thompson.

Also, there are certain exercises to build up wrist strength at the computer. Everyone here should look into them.

Bruce Perry
bamccaig said:

aluminum

It's aluminium, even in America ;)

Quote:

spaghetti source

FTFY :)[1]

Quote:

math

s ;D

References

  1. Both words actually, although I didn't notice the error in the first until I copied and pasted it for the quote :P
Edgar Reynaldo

I prefer aluminum. Let's vote.

DanielH

I vote we drop this thread! ;D

Possible flame war, but don't pluralize math!

'math' is short for mathematics not mathematic.

Saying maths is like saying mathematicses

Edgar Reynaldo
DanielH said:

I vote we drop this thread! ;D

I veto your vote to drop the thread. The thread that must not be closed must remain open!!!

And I assert my right to vote for aluminum again.

Bruce Perry

Well, I prefer sulphur, and the same people who standardised the scientific community on 'aluminium' also apparently standardised on 'sulfur' at the same time. Can't win 'em all. :-/

Mark Oates

+1 to "maths" is annoying. >:(

Edgar Reynaldo

Standards schmandards. :P

Gideon Weems
DanielH said:

'math' is short for mathematics not mathematic.

I never thought of it that way.

... and with that, this thread has imparted upon me its first nugget of information.

Audric

Stirring 14 liters for several hours :o ... There has to be a better way.
{"name":"GastonSoupeDessin.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/a\/da2305417f55f3faa542edb955f57f5d.jpg","w":606,"h":442,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/a\/da2305417f55f3faa542edb955f57f5d"}GastonSoupeDessin.jpg

Paul whoknows

You guys sure know how to have fun :-X

Edgar Reynaldo

Teach us master!

Well, I prefer sulphur,

I suppose you prefer selphies too. :)

Paul whoknows

{"name":"C_71_article_1596439_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.jpg_","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/e\/1e8b80c924d0794ed51630accc8a8eac.jpg","w":1023,"h":681,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/e\/1e8b80c924d0794ed51630accc8a8eac"}C_71_article_1596439_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.jpg_

amarillion

Gaston! He's not getting enough mentions in memes I think.

Bruce Perry

I suppose you prefer selphies too. :)

Cringe! ;D

Bruce Perry

I suppose you prefer selphies too. :)

Cringe! ;D

Who's Gaston?

[EDIT]
Oh that's exciting! It took so long to post that I was able to expand the post and post it again before the original post page went away. So that's how to double post! :D

Derezo

DOUBLE THREAD LOCK STOPPING POWERRRR!!

amarillion

Google for: Gaston Lagaffe. In dutch it's Guust Flater

Bruce Perry

Elias's birthday thread brought me to this:

video

GullRaDriel

Bruce: yes, it was ^^

Bruce Perry

Yeah, I had a feeling it was, but then my mum got scared.

GullRaDriel

Your mum ?
WTF ?

Bruce Perry

That was a Bel Air :)

video

bamccaig

There's nothing wrong with having a mom that's scared. >:(

GullRaDriel

Wow Bruce. I didn't think to be that old when it came to tv show, but I was wrong.
Le Prince de Bel Air was a popular one here too, and I remember it even if I was young.

Niunio

It was a hit in Spain too. So much it was re-aired 4 chapters every day last year. Again.

Actually they do this (airing a lot of chapters of a popular show in a row) quite often in Spain. For example, The Simpsons, any CSI series, The A Team (yep), Knight Rider (Here known as "El Coche Fantástico [The Fantastic Car]"), The Closer, Major Crimes, Murder, She Wrote, Two (and a Half) Men, The Big Bang Theory... I know all dialogues of some of the series.

But the worst thing about this is that in a lot of cases they aired the chapter unordered, so you may found a chapter of series #1 after a chapter of series #8 after a chapter of series #4... It's insane.

jmasterx



MiquelFire

Oh no! We're running out of things to talk about!

Bring on the kitties!

video

Bruce Perry

Long phone is long.

{"name":"610600","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/6\/46fa37eb59d710d01bc0d496ab08841d.jpg","w":2448,"h":3264,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/6\/46fa37eb59d710d01bc0d496ab08841d"}610600

It's premium stuff - HDR camera, enough memory to cope with all the bloatware, and the screen actually responds where I touch it instead of in random places. However, the keyboard is a noticeable step down from the Photon Q I had before:

{"name":"610601","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/e\/de33c426a860aa5d0ce9aa43d024454f.jpg","w":1456,"h":952,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/e\/de33c426a860aa5d0ce9aa43d024454f"}610601

(Mine also has coloured lighting unlike the stock ones, although the colour scheme is different - I bought it from the same guy on eBay, who mods them with SIM sockets.)

So, on the Blackberry, there's no dedicated number row, and the only dedicated punctuation key is $ of all things! And instead of arrows, we have gestures which are cumbersome to activate and difficult to control precisely (and if you forget to activate them, you just deleted a whole word). I hate to say it about the only company that is making keyboard phones at all any more, but no wonder Blackberry's not doing as well as they'd hoped with that phone :-/

I would probably still be on the Photon Q if its battery hadn't failed. The replacement battery came today, so it's fitted now, and at least it's up and running and I can get the data off it. One thing didn't go quite according to plan though: the battery had an NFC antenna stuck to it, which I probably broke while moving it to the new battery, but hey, I didn't even know I had NFC on that phone.

Edgar Reynaldo

If you guys need something to do, I could use an animated gif of a cat walking, preferably with an easily removable background. Somebody wants me to make a small computer game with a cat and a litterbox, where you click on the litterbox, and the cat uses it and says "Meow". The game is utterly simple, but I need a good animation, and my google fu is weak these days. NOTE : This is mostly for lulz.

Gideon Weems

That keyboard is miles beyond anything else I have ever seen on a portable device. I would never want to upgrade.

On a related note, I am currently looking for a prepaid emergency phone. The first deal I found is $100 for 400 minutes good for 365 days. Sure, the price per minute is horrible, but hopefully this phone will never be used. Does anyone know of any better deals in the U.S.?

bamccaig

{"name":"tumblr_n462v8R3nj1t4pxxdo1_250.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/4\/c4beb65c8ba3be54ba513b2a70683b1a.gif","w":250,"h":153,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/4\/c4beb65c8ba3be54ba513b2a70683b1a"}tumblr_n462v8R3nj1t4pxxdo1_250.gif

Edgar Reynaldo

The sword is backwards when she down-slashes. ::)

bamccaig

Just watched "Before The Flood", narrated/hosted by Leonardo DiCaprio.

video

We should all have to watch this once a week. It adds much needed perspective to all of our lives. When it comes time to vote politically it reminds you what really matters. It alerts us to the corruption that rewrites science as it is broadcast on national and international news outlets. It horrifies us with the undeniable hopelessness of the human race, and of the planet Earth as we know it. The Earth will be here in 50 years and even 100, and so might our children or grandchildren, but we can almost guarantee that they'll be suffering the consequences and reality of war in ways that we cannot fathom as they struggle to conquer and defend the limited remaining resources required for life at all, a life of luxury that we've known a distant fantasy. Instead of progressing the world into a dystopia of peace and prosperity, we're likely dooming our descendants, if not our aged selves, to a life of turmoil the likes of which we've only peeked into in documentaries flying by developing, war-torn nations. I do not envy my future self or the lives of my progeny. Maybe, just maybe, if we rewatch this every Sunday instead of sleeping in or attending some form of house of hopeless lies then we'd begin to reshape our projections of the future for the better. It's quite damning to see the alleged progress that China, of all nations, is apparently making in the renewable energy sector while the USA continues to consume so much more and contribute so little in return. If I was a religious man I'd hope my deity had a place in Hell assigned for each of us.

Bruce Perry

Added to Watch Later, for when our current crazy deadline is out of the way :)

On a similar note, long comic is long (and this was my similar "we're doomed" moment):

{"name":"earth_temperature_timeline.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/c\/6c45976f4d9ee8607a8a840329e26f93.png","w":740,"h":14957,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/c\/6c45976f4d9ee8607a8a840329e26f93"}earth_temperature_timeline.png

Arvidsson

Bumpity bump!

Mark Oates

<- Totally on board for fixing climate change.

(even though I realized I just bought a burger)

bamccaig

I really want to try eating insects as a source of protein. The science seems so much more practical. I realize it won't be as appetizing as beef or chicken, but it should be so much cheaper and more green! I've made a few attempts to locate insects for food, but unfortunately in North America it's kind of difficult unless you're going to farm your own...

Mark Oates

I had a beetle from Africa once.

It tasted like a rock.

bamccaig

I have eaten assorted, vacuumed packed, dehydrated/smoked insects a few years ago. They all just tasted like ash though so it wasn't much to taste. Wasn't much nutrition left either probably. Wasn't bad though. Except for that massive beetle thing that was pretty similar to chewing on a rock... So there's that. I'm not sure if you're supposed to eat the wings/shell though.

I can imagine several insects being appetizing. I know for a fact that smallish ants are harmless to chew on. It's like the seeds in a fruit or something like that. Crickets look very appetizing on a plate. :D

Of course, aside from the cultural barrier to accessing insects for consumption, I have another hurdle. My finacee is the most picky person I have ever met in my life. She will not even eat a McDonald's burger without instructing them to put nothing on it. :P

Gideon Weems

I still call it "global warming."

Bruce Perry
Quote:

<- Totally on board for fixing climate change.

(even though I realized I just bought a burger)

Does eating a burger work against fixing climate change somehow?

bamccaig

Cattle production is a major contributor to methane in the atmosphere which is something like 20x worse than CO2. Cattle in general are terrible for the environment. Not only do they produce massive amounts of waste that leaks into our water, and greenhouse gases, but we also destroy lots of forest land to make room for them. Beef is terrible for the planet. :P (Beef is also incredibly inefficient to produce by comparison to just about every other food source...)

Mark Oates

And the vast majority of food we grow is used to feed cattle.

bamccaig

^ Ah, right. That's the other destructive force: the production of the food for the cattle, which is also massive. Thanks, Mark!

Matthew Leverton

And yet, it tastes so good.

bamccaig

'MERICA.

Peter Hull

Has anyone see Doctor Strange? What did you think? And how about Benedict C's accent?

Johan Halmén

Piccolo will eventually come with a solution for global warming.

Polybios

It will involve boats.

Edgar Reynaldo
Polybios said:

It will involve boats spacecraft.

FTFY. Perhaps sea worthy spaceships. Or space worthy boats. One of those.

Gideon Weems

Another thread that was locked too soon: Text Mode 2000. That game looks awesome.

Mark Oates

video

Bruce Perry

video

Edgar Reynaldo

While we're posting random videos. ;)

video

bamccaig

Excellent. I am most amused. :D

Edgar Reynaldo

What, you've never seen Weird Science? For shame! Add it to your list.

Bruce Perry

There. Weird Science and Spinal Tap ordered :)

Edgar Reynaldo

Real Genius should be on the top of your 80's movie to-see list as well.

video

video

And don't forget Better Off Dead.

video

Chris Katko

Oh my God.

This thread is still alive.

Edgar Reynaldo

OMG! Chris Katko is still alive! Haven't heard from you in a while!

Chris Katko

I've been somewhat dead lately. Haven't been able to touch a hobby programming project in over 6 months. :'(

Edgar Reynaldo

How's your health holding up? I know you've had plenty of problems in the past. If you've got down time, spend it here!!!! The Katko is always welcome at a.cc.

Niunio

OMG! Chris Katko is still alive! Haven't heard from you in a while!

If you heard him any time in this forum, you should go to the psychologist... :o;);D

Edgar Reynaldo

Ha. Last laugh is on you. I have a screen reader. ;)

Gideon Weems

Aw, man. We missed this thread's one-year anniversary. At least Gull and OnlineCop posted.

What I'm trying to say is, this thread will never die. If A.cc mysteriously vanishes without a trace, this thread will be hosted elsewhere. If the internet goes down forever, I will keep a written record to bequeath upon my seven sons, who will pass the thread that never locks onto their children and their children's children.

Welcome back, Chris.

Chris Katko

How's your health holding up? I know you've had plenty of problems in the past. If you've got down time, spend it here!!!! The Katko is always welcome at a.cc.

Thank you, that really means a lot to me. :)

My allergies have been horrific lately--and they significantly worsen my back pain. I often can't get out of bed till the night when the pollen dies down. And I already take over-the-counter meds, perscription meds, get allergy shots, wear a HEPA gas mask with a allergy mask I embedded inside that, and have a super high filter HEPA HVAC filter, and a secondary HEPA air purifier, and an ionic air filter (which doesn't seem to help at all.)

All of that, and I'm still in agony many days out of the week. :( The last two weeks have been nothing but sleeping until 6 - 7 PM, so I've turned into a night owl... where I get a burst of energy... but I'm also "supposed" to be working a 9-5 job at home. So I keep struggling to keep up with the work and work e-mails.

Bruce Perry

Aw, man. We missed this thread's one-year anniversary.

I wished us a happy birthday :) but I can now see that it wasn't correct in all time zones. I did it as midnight passed in the UK, meaning it was early for anyone to the west of me :'(

お帰りなさい、Chrisuさん^^

[EDIT]
Oh yeah, also... Amazon has Real Genius, but for £15 :o Also it says it's an import but it's already in the UK (or at least within 1-day delivery distance) and Region 2. Meanwhile there are definitely actual imports of Region 1 available for less. The only solution to this tough decision is to not bother ordering it for now ;D

Edgar Reynaldo

15 pounds for Real Genious? That's outrageous. You could probably find that for $5 bucks in a bargain bin at Best Buy. It's from the 80's FFS!

Anyway, I'm just a fan of Val Kilmer. I love all his movies. Top Gun, Real Genius, The Saint, etc...

Johan Halmén

I wrote post #500.

Edgar Reynaldo

I'll counter your post #500 with a useless reply #800. So there.

Bruce Perry

I bought it for £9.90 off eBay :)

Meanwhile I spent £90 on a flight that I could have spent £62 on if I'd known a week ago that I was able to go. On the plus side, the return flight (which I booked earlier) cost me €5. 8-)

Edgar Reynaldo

What is that weird little crescent moon symbol with lines running through it? Does that mean pence? You europeans and your funny money.

Oh, it's a Euro. I thought you guys went all Brexit and everything.

Johan Halmén
  • must... not... get... into... a... debate... about... which... country... is... the... funny... one... *

bamccaig

I've heard that Southern Michigan residents call Canadian money "funny money" because it's colorful (probably helps that it's worthless too). :)

Edgar Reynaldo

They call it funny money because it's plastic and colorful.

Gideon Weems

I wished us a happy birthday :)

Ah, good! I noticed that at the time but thought that you were privy to someone else's birthday.

Quote:

The only solution to this tough decision is to not bother ordering it for now ;D join the Dark Side and pirate that scrumptious morsel! ... or get it on eBay. Whatever floats your boat.

Bruce Perry

They charge flights (and extras) in the currency of the departure country.

Which screws British people over because they have always matched the fixed fees up as if €1 = £1. For example, the name change fee is €160 / £160. At least they use a real exchange rate when setting the base flight fares themselves - except when it's a special offer of £5 / €5 for a flight.

amarillion

The Euro / Pound ratio is getting closer to parity though, so that's one advantage of Brexit...

GullRaDriel

TRUMP. Nothing more to add. >:(

Mark Oates

They call it funny money because it's plastic and colorful.

Funny money is better than no money! ;D

Bruce Perry

Can 'trump' mean 'fart' for you Americans? It certainly could where I grew up in Buxton.

Trump on Urban Dictionary

bamccaig

Somebody told me that the American people don't actually vote the president in, and that instead they're voting in "electors" in their state to vote for the president. And it's expected that the electors vote the way their state voted, but they aren't required to. Is this true? ??? And yet America goes around the world trying to force "democracy" on people?! Pot, meet kettle!!!!

Bruce Perry

CGP Grey said it, so it's probably true :)

video

Skip to 3:00.

Is America going around the world trying to force "democracy" on people? Hillary had an opportunity to install a "democracy" in Libya, and she consciously chose not to. Libya could have started recovering and gaining some quality of life, but instead, everyone is in danger there. Apparently.

[EDIT] Not exactly that, but this is related. But I'm too tired to read it properly :-/

Mark Oates
bamccaig said:

Somebody told me that the American people don't actually vote the president in, and that instead they're voting in "electors" in their state to vote for the president. And it's expected that the electors vote the way their state voted, but they aren't required to. Is this true? ???

Yes.

bamccaig

On your ballet does it have the names of your "electors" or does it have the parties/presidential candidates? ???

Edgar Reynaldo

The names of the candidates. The electors are free to pick whoever they wish, but they will most likely vote with the populace.

bamccaig

The candidates being the electors or the presidential candidates?

I find that absolutely absurd. Who the Hell elected the electors then? ???

Johan Halmén

- That's the most stupid thing! People pick a president on the ballot, but that only picks an anonymous elector. How on earth can you talk about democr...
- It's constitutional.
- Okay then.

Onewing

I'm just going to leave this here...

Supreme Loser said:

(Waiting for thread to lock, so I don't have to reply.)

bamccaig

It sounds like it's all a sham anyway because the electors are chosen to match the popular vote, and apparently most states have laws in place requiring the electors to vote for the party that they represent (and the parties generally choose the electors knowing they will do so anyway). I don't imagine the parties would ever ask their electors to vote against the party, but I wonder if they could still use this power to elect the wrong candidate? I guess not unless another republican's name is on the ballot. Still, would the sabotage themselves if they decided they didn't like their candidate? I suppose.

DanielH

"That's the most stupid thing!" - Johan Halmén

Too true. They've been talking of removing that aspect for years. The fact that the 'elector' can still vote for whomever they wish is idiocy.

bamccaig

What's the point of having the electors at all? Either they can vote for whoever they wish and they undermine democracy, or they are required to vote for the same people the population did and it's a complete waste of time and resources.

Onewing
bamccaig said:

What's the point of having the electors at all?

Cus history?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)#History

bamccaig

Is it just me or are the "united" states about as far away from united as can be without civil war? :P

Append:

Besides, if historical reasons mattered, wouldn't you try to honor the original intent behind the system and enforce people voting for "electors" within their district instead of bastardizing the entire election process into this sham? If you throw away the district elections (which, for the record, is nearly how the Canadian systems works, albeit it has its flaws too) then you need to rethink the entire system because it doesn't make sense out of context.

'MERICA?

MiquelFire

As long as we don't add gerrymandering to the mix...

bamccaig

There is no single person or group of people that deserves to lead a country. If you want a true democracy then you should have people from all sides having a reasonable say in how to do things. All of our so called "democracies" are every bit as fixed as a monarch or dictatorship. We just get to pat ourselves on the back and pretend we're free to make us feel better.

Johan Halmén

In Finland we used to vote electors to vote for the president. But what the citizen did was voting for an individual elector, not for the president. Though one could vote only for an elector candidate from one's own district. And each district had a proportional amount of electors to be elected. The system worked pretty well, though we went to a far more democratic system by skipping the electors altogether and let the citizens vote directly on the president.

But at the mean time the power of the president has been reduced very much, in favour of the prime minister. Which is stupid, because the prime minister doesn't get the mandate directly from the people, but from the party that wins the general election.

Bruce Perry
bamccaig said:

All of our so called "democracies" are every bit as fixed as a monarch or dictatorship.

I don't think it's quite that bad. We do at least have popular votes which, broken as they are, will oust particularly bad politicians. Under a dictatorship, you would not get away with complaining here.

Err I mean... let me just post here to keep the thread going because what I just wrote is a waste of time :)

bamccaig

In my country the particularly bad politicians are the ones that get elected. If the voting system isn't proportional then it's easy for the worst candidate to win out over the others.

Bruce Perry

Not if that worst candidate wanted to legalise murder or something. You're starting at a rather high bar, I think :)

bamccaig

I'd say you're setting a rather low bar instead. ;)

Derezo

The first past the post system works well when there are many minority parties and minority governments. Historically there have been more parties in Canada, and the system is designed to work under those circumstances. However, in more recent decades there have been only 4 main parties, and the green party is just barely hanging on.

Parts of the system are being taken advantage of to create majority governments, and we end up inching closer to the 2 party system of the United States.

The people even voted to keep the first past the post system in a referendum. The referendum was created through a non-profit, costing lots of money raised by the people. The media was super against it, and it failed.

Democracy isn't really a thing anymore. It gotted borked.

bamccaig

What's this about the people voting to keep the voting system? When was this? I didn't get to vote. >:( Link please.

Derezo

Ontario Electoral Reform Referendum, 2007

It didn't even come close to passing. (I thought it was federal but I guess it was provincial)

amarillion

The same happened in the UK, there was a referendum to change the voting system... and it was soundly rejected.

IMHO the election systems in UK and USA are crap. It leads to an over-emphasis of minor differences, to the point that nations get more divided than they actually are. The coalition system in most European nations leads to more consensus and compromise and more centrist candidates.

Mark Oates

Fundamentally, a single vote doesn't have much of an impact. Voting (and what you are allowed to vote for) only represents a small margin of the bigger overall picture of how individuals are allowed to shape their world.

Money is a lot more impactful. The real influencers in the day to day world are the voices with money. Someone with wealth is a lot more attractive to businesses, and so services cater to them and their world view. Poor individuals have little to nothing to offer businesses, and so market forces fundamentally ignore them.

On the plus side, a vote gives this neglected class an opportunity to offset the balance of reality. That's really cool, to be honest. However, I feel that a "truer" democracy might find some way to give everyone equal wealth, allowing all classes to equally express themselves economically.

Edgar Reynaldo

give everyone equal wealth

Commie!

{"name":"8AyzRBs3ehCFAYJfYhFbn8oD.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/c\/1c496d09f3d1224478172622bf5a4096.png","w":800,"h":501,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/c\/1c496d09f3d1224478172622bf5a4096"}8AyzRBs3ehCFAYJfYhFbn8oD.png

Sorry, just having a little fun at your expense.

Johan Halmén

Fundamentally, a single vote doesn't have much of an impact.

What on earth would a system be like, where a single vote would have an impact?

You vote A. 30% vote A. 70% vote B. B wins. But by voting, you have stated that you belong to a minority supporting A and you are simply surrounded by a majority supporting B. Of course there should be no way for you as a single person to put A in the place of the winner.

Every time I vote, I do have a feeling that my vote has an impact. On myself! And besides, there are absolute no one else, whose vote would have a greater impact than my vote.

Aaron Bolyard

You vote A. 30% vote A. 70% vote B. B wins. But by voting, you have stated that you belong to a minority supporting A and you are simply surrounded by a majority supporting B. Of course there should be no way for you as a single person to put A in the place of the winner.

And you would expect a bill that has 70% of the population's support to pass about 70% of the time, but it has the same chance of passing (~30%) regardless of support.

Yet if the bill has 70% support from the top 10%, it has about an equal chance of passing.

The will of the people is not reflected in the will of the government. And therefore, voting has no effect, even for the entire population.

(The numbers may be off; I'm going off memory. It's only relevant for the United States. Citation and more.)

Bruce Perry
Derezo said:

The first past the post system works well when there are many minority parties and minority governments.

Categorically the opposite of the truth. See:

video

He goes through examples, starting with 7 candidates, and shows how everything goes wrong.

The same happened in the UK, there was a referendum to change the voting system... and it was soundly rejected.

I witnessed rich, Conservatives-leaning, people vote against that because they liked the fact that the Conservatives were able to get in thanks to flaws in the system. Meanwhile there was a massive smear campaign (no doubt funded by those people) to make everyone think other voting systems were a bad idea. Finally, it's worth noting that the proposed replacement system was still not the best one available, by far (there are more CGP Grey videos on this if anyone's interested).

bamccaig

Great video. Thanks for sharing, Bruce!

Derezo

Categorically the opposite of the truth. See:

It's a good video, but a lot of what he says is a bit presumptive. A real world model instead of his hypothetical animal kingdom would be nice. I did reach the same conclusion (two party system), so I'm not completely out of line. :P

Bruce Perry

You're right, you kind of did :)

But I would say it only works well if you start with two options. When you have any more than that, a big problem is that no one can accurately express ideas like "Anyone except X" - they might want Y, but they'd be happy with Z, and then X gets in because the Y-or-Z supporters are diluted.

But it looks as if we did agree on how it converges to there only being two serious contenders :)

Johan Halmén

Months ago, I wrote in this thread that Trump is the best thing that has happened to the Democrats. Little did I know. :P

Derezo

Yeah... a lot of people were pretty dang shocked. Myself included.

Johan Halmén
14th of March, I said:

So what will happen with Trump?

1. He will win and become president and the whole world will know what USA is made of
...

I took some other guesses, too, but funny that I mentioned this as the first guess.

Bruce Perry

Lore and I enjoyed Weird Science :)

Edgar Reynaldo

Now for Real Genius and Better Off Dead. ;) They're classics.

Gideon Weems

Is Weird Science overly campy? I never caught it the first time around, either. It seems right up my alley but could fall into that category of things that require a good deal of nostalgia to enjoy.

Edgar Reynaldo

I don't know what 'campy' means, but it's a lot of fun. Bunch of teenage boys messing around with 'weird science'. Big brother who's a big dick. Chains and whips and candlewax on the nipples. You know, standard 80's stuff.

DanielH

Oops!

One of the best scenes is at the end of the movie.

Kelly LeBrock as the new gym teacher! And don't forget the big pile of Chet!

Edgar Reynaldo

Spoiler tags, please!!!!

Bruce Perry

My brother had his phone stolen and missed his train to come and visit me because he had to give a police statement. Meanwhile, my mum is feeling ill and hasn't yet been able to make the journey (driving). So it's an unexpectedly lonely Christmas for me so far :-X

bamccaig

Steam is down. :'( How am I supposed to pwn teh nubs?

MiquelFire

Uh oh, there's a game I was planning to stream tonight. Hope it's back up by then. Or at least offline mode works.

Eric Johnson

Steam must be back online now, because I can access it.

[Edit]
Lots of good games are on sale right now. I'm tempted to buy the first two Fallout games... Any suggestions for good games?

bamccaig

My suggestion is to not buy anything that you don't plan to play now. I cannot count the games that I have bought on Steam sales that I never play. If you never play them then a sale is not saving you anything... If there's a game that you already wanted and that's on sale then go for it! There's a couple of my wish list that are on sale, but mostly not tempting enough to go for it... I know I'll probably just keep playing CS:GO and neglect any new games... :P As it is, I need to find the time to get back to MGSV on my PS3 to finish that before I forget about it... And find a million hours to max character attributes for the FFVII weapon fights to finally check that off my list...

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

My suggestion is to not buy anything that you don't plan to play now.

Yeah, I know... :P I've done that a few times already, but I always get to the games eventually. I suppose there will always be another sale, so it's not a big deal to skip this one.

bamccaig

Oh man, I fell into the trap... I just bought Lisa and Outlast. :( At least I was smart enough to stick to the cheap end of the spectrum. I also try to avoid buying any non-Linux titles right now. I have no intent to install Windows again so I'm trying to hold out and hope that titles like TW3 come to Linux. :-/ And in the meantime, no matter how good the sale, skip them. But if you don't have it yet, I do recommend TW3. 50% isn't bad.

MiquelFire

What's TW3?

Aaron Bolyard

I have a hunch TW3 is The Witcher 3.

Eric Johnson

Yeah, The Witcher 3.

Not sure I'll ever play that one. I bought and played through a good chunk of the second game, but didn't really like it. The first few hours were explosively fun, but it totally tanked once I reached Flotsam, and I stopped playing.

bamccaig

I haven't personally played it yet, but it looks like an upgraded Skyrim and I immensely loved Skyrim. It had more than its share of bugs and immersion breaking moments, but the good times more than made up for the bad. You do need a bit of imagination, but I think the best games do. Our imaginations are far better at satisfying us than anything man-made. I like to think that a good game is just a tool to inspire the imagination.

MiquelFire

Oh... that game... Meh. At least I got my copy for free. Eventually stopped GOG's thingy from auto starting on my computer in the long run though.

Rodolfo Lam

Christmas thread bump. What did you receive/buy today? (Yesterday for those in +GMT timezones)

Eric Johnson

I got some ca$h. 8-) Probably going to buy Fallout 1 now on Steam. :D

MiquelFire

Cash. Haven't left the house yet, just now getting on the computer.

bamccaig

I got money and a gift certificate towards a remote starter for my truck! :o:D I also share an Android TV box with my finacee, along with various candies and beers and a drinking accessory (her dad sent me a boot glass from Montana's).

Elias

I got a sleeping bag from my wife and various smaller backpacking gear from her family. They have this neat system where everyone shares wish lists at the beginning of December and then others can buy (and cross off) stuff. And yes, me and my wife plan to go backpacking in 2017 - only missing a tent and a backpack now :)

LennyLen

The Witcher 3 is a great game. It's not likely to be available on Linux any time soon as RE3 doesn't support linux, and I think they're too busy working on CyberPunk 2077 to work on the engine.

Rodolfo Lam

Funnily enough, the PS4 is BSD-ish, and Linux and BSD applications are somewhat similar. Red Engine 3 might have the support half-baked. But that is true, all effort must be on Cyberpunk. Maybe in a few years they will take on the project.

Bruce Perry

{"name":"610697","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/4\/443ec1fe6f719e9aa7f115b18ca04d46.png","w":416,"h":201,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/4\/443ec1fe6f719e9aa7f115b18ca04d46"}610697

The time estimate is wrong, but we all know about that with the Windows copy dialogue, don't we :)

Aaron Bolyard

132 is the Pokedex number for the Pokemon Ditto.

My avatar is a Ditto.

Bruce Perry

For once, an on-topic post in this thread!!! ;D

Here, I wanted to post that I was wrong, and instead of

this.Over9000?(this, args);

you have to write

this.Over9000?.Invoke(this, args);

But I can't :'(

bamccaig
this.Over9000?.Invoke(this, args);

I imagine that this would be somewhat slower than just doing a null check and directly invoking the event delegate.

Bruce Perry

You're assuming Invoke() has a signature along the lines of "params object[] args", but it doesn't - it is generated (presumably by the runtime) with exactly the right parameters for the delegate type it belongs to. I suspect the shorter call syntax is syntactic sugar for the Invoke method anyway in fact.

That said, I think ?[ exists as a null-propagating array index construct. I can understand why ?( doesn't, since it's impossible to tell apart from "? expression : expression" with a finite amount of lookahead.

Eric Johnson

I like pie.

[EDIT]
What's this thread even about anymore? :P

Mark Oates

Well, now it's about pie. :)

Eric Johnson
Quote:

Well, now it's about pie. :)

Great! I had cherry pie on Christmas. It was tasty, albeit a bit too sweet. I'd rather have apple pie. Apple pie is the best, in my opinion.

Elias

I had coconut cream pie on Christmas. And I seem to like anything with coconut in it.

Edgar Reynaldo

The pie is a lie. >:(

Eric Johnson

@Elias: I don't think I've ever had coconut cream pie before. Sounds tasty though!

@Edgar: Cake. Cake is a lie! >:(

bamccaig

Happy New Year! :D

amarillion

Happy New Year

We had vegetable pie, filled with broccoli and Brussels sprouts.

Bruce Perry

The pie is a fake :)

Elias

Hm, my brain works in a strange way. On the first day of Krampushack when I decided to use the three holy kings as main characters of my game I seemed to have this vague memory of a song I once knew about those three kings. But I could not remember any specific text nor the tune. Google also completely failed me and gave me lots of carols with the three kings/mages but none I had heard before.

Several days later I woke up in the morning and had a strange melody in my head, with no idea where it had come from. And it would stay in my head for several days - I wasted precious time during the competition using various tune searches, but without luck... but I wrote it down as notes.

So today I saw those notes again and gave finding out what it is another try. Going through just about 30 tune search results I did finally find it (my mind had doubled one note and changed another so that must be why I hadn't found it at first). It was "Le Marche des Rois", a pretty popular French Christmas carol from the 17th century. About the holy three kings. (And not unpopular in English either it seems, but just unknown enough it fell under the Google radar for "three kings carol".)

So somehow I must have heard it as a kid and must have known what it is about, so "three kings" gave me that vague memory of something. And then the first few days of Krampushack my brain must have started a background search process to find the tune - and when it finally found it just put it in my head that morning.

Now I have to add new music to my game...

Johan Halmén

I once made a Christmas hack game about St Nicholas running around. I searched for suitable music and found a lovely carol, which I'd never heard before. Since that, I've heard it a few times.

Exactly 10 years ago, I wrote a tune for Christmas hack and that tune turned into a new carol with lyrics by my wife a year ago. It's one of our best songs.

I guess I have at least three more songs, which relate directly to Allegro games. Some made by me, some made by Andrei Ellman. One sung by Andrei Ellman!

Then there was the Monday Song, sung by Matt Somethington. That song is still waiting for being used in a game.

Elias

Which carol was it? And where can I listen to the other ones? :)

I wonder what Andrei is doing nowadays. He moved to Austria after I had left there and was working for Austria's largest game studio, but they shut down a while ago.

Johan Halmén

Jolly Old Saint Nicholas.

The 10 year old game tune was played on a glockenspiel. You can still hear it in this video:

video

...though the solo singer and the choir might cover the glockenspiel. If there's somewhere an archive with old Christmashack entries, you might find the game there,and the original dat file with the original midi tune.

In Andrei Ellman's "Chickens" you can find my music. Two of the tunes got lyrics, but there's no sung music track in the games. I have one recording on an old Macintosh laptop somewhere.

And Andrei's excellent performance of my DTL-song from DTL-rally is on an even older laptop somewhere.

One old recording I managed to find. It's actually from the depot here on a.cc.

Here's Blub and Blob singing:

media player

Elias

I like that carol! Is there a translation (or the Finnish text so I can put it in Google translate)? I suppose it is about all the countries Santa has to visit...

Also love the Blub and Blob song... is that you and Andrei singing in it?

Johan Halmén

No, it's about Santa's vacation in July. Here's my own translation from a blog I wrote about our carols:

The white beard is fluttering. A mild breeze. A yellow balloon shines with the sun. There's a long time to Christmas. Santa's enjoying. In July the familiar scenery looks different. Peace, happiness, warmth and love. Peace, happiness, keep your Christmas mood always with you. (A list of countries) How beautiful our world is, when seen from above! (More countries...)

In Blub & Blob there's only me. In that game there's a karaoke function I developed. It played a midi file while showing timed lyrics. You had to include a txt file with the lyrics which had the time code in seconds in square brackets at each word.

Some day I'll continue with the karaoke project. I like the idea of having singable game music. I find similar joy in creating a game, creating music and writing song lyrics.

Onewing

This thread will lock soon. Dare I say...too soon?

GullRaDriel

To be honest I was hoping to get M.Leverton back to us with the size of the thread.
Seems like size isn't the only thing that matters ;-P

Edgar Reynaldo

ML will never notice if it's under 1000 replies. Keep posting!

GullRaDriel

What if we mention all his nicks in the thread ?
What if he DOES have an alarm system and then we use the call "Supreme Dictator" 3 times ? Facing a mirror ?

bamccaig

ML is probably just busy starring in his own reality show.

Bruce Perry

As a kid, I had a totally mixed-up dream. At that age, I was used to BBC BASIC, but had noticed that machine code existed. I also loved playing with tape recorders. In the dream, machine code looked like random strings of symbols, but could be used to accomplish anything, lightning-fast - and I used some to materialise a jetpack on my back which looked like a tape recorder.

In the real world, however, Matthew Leverton cannot detect whether you are facing a mirror. ;)

GullRaDriel

I even tried to add him to my Facebook, with no luck so far :-p

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

ML is probably just busy starring in his own reality show.

This thread is now the roast of Matthew Leverton. :o

amarillion

Only 100 more to go!

Gideon Weems

If that is true, this thread has averaged roughly 1.887 posts/day so far. Good job, guys. We are changing the world.

GullRaDriel

Then what do you propose Gideon ?

Gideon Weems

I feel as though we should conquer a small territory, in order to send a message.

... or just share videos that feature rodents:

video

Bruce Perry

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww <3

On another note, it's taken us about 1.3 years to get to 900. So in 13 years I'll be able to post "OVER 9000!!!!!!! :o" ;D

amarillion

There will be significant milestones before that. Like 940, 1024, 1337 and 1701.

GullRaDriel

Thread locks too soon. I couldn't answer the allegro5 nuklear gui port in time, I had to PM him.
That's a great GUI tool, that can be driven by OGL, D3D, SDL, or allegro5 and the whole dx/ogl/whatever !

Derezo
if($(programmer).is(':using-javascript')) $(programmer).find('.hair').each(function() { $(this).remove(); });

Mark Oates

In Ruby, that would look like:

Programmer.find_by(using: 'javascript').each { |p| p.hairs.each { |h| h.remove } }

bamccaig

In Perl5 that could look like:

$_->remove for map $_->hairs, grep $_->is_using('javascript'), $programmer;

GullRaDriel

Why use such complicated things when you can just free( theprogrammer -> hairs );

Bruce Perry

That leaks memory - you should call al_destroy_hairs(theprogrammer->hairs);

The main difference is it packs the hairs better without introducing all those smelly spaces :)

Elias
for programmer in programmers:
    if "javascript" in programmer.languages:
        for hair in programmer.hairs:
            hair.pull()

Bruce Perry

Who wants to write it in 6502? I totally would but I'm at work right now :)

GullRaDriel

Today I'm gonna catch the sun. I keep you informed.

Bruce Perry

What are you gonna catch it in?

Chris Katko

You guys are slowing down. 8-)

Gideon Weems

♫ Too old to kid, too young to lock.

Johan Halmén

I've been catching the Sun for a few weeks now with a 4 kW set of solar panels. So far the highest effect has been almost 2 kW, which is very promising.

GullRaDriel

Nice Johan ! 8-)

Bruce Perry
Eric Johnson

I got "That Lucky Old Sun" achievement in Fallout: New Vegas. 8-)

Gideon Weems

I've been catching the Sun for a few weeks now with a 4 kW set of solar panels. So far the highest effect has been almost 2 kW, which is very promising.

Is it topic-worthy? I hope to install solar panels (or shingles) this summer but haven't quite figured out how to calculate power demand. My PC's power supply, for example, says it uses 1600W AC, whereas my bass amplifier (obscenely loud) only lists 500W (or 690VA). I find this ridiculous.

Then, there's the microwave. It lists 1430 (watts, I presume) but is only used a few minutes each day. How is that calculated? If you have any resources you've found handy, I am all ears.

MiquelFire

Your PC's power supply is listing it's max usage (Some cheaper made PSU might be over estimating how much it can supply however, but I'm not sure if any of those are in that range you listed), and your actually use may be much less. You'll need some kind of power reader (like like this) see what the actual usage is (Test under load, lots of parts inside a computer now a days may just sip on power when they're idle).

Some UPS with displays can be used as a power meter (or even the software you install on the computer itself).

Gideon Weems
Quote:

You'll need some kind of power reader (like this)...

Thanks! Now we're making sense. I still don't understand, though, how a system of solar panels uses the unit kW and not, say, kW/hour (or even electrons/hour for a certain resistance spec, because the solar panels' role is to shove electrons into batteries). In terms of planning, I figured there would be two important calculations: the largest anticipated simultaneous demand and the average demand at any given point in time, the latter being used to roughly determine how many kW/hour a system needs to provide to the battery bank for recharging.

If a system of solar panels like Johan's provides 4 kW, is that per day?

Johan Halmén

Gideon, what you think a kW/h is, is actually a kW. Read on!

<append/>

Here's what the central unit registered today, which was a sunny day:
{"name":"610767","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/3\/1317789f5a532f5a6c27d8a6138fadf8.jpg","w":1600,"h":1200,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/3\/1317789f5a532f5a6c27d8a6138fadf8"}610767

That was the highest effect.

And here's the total energy created today:
{"name":"610768","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/9\/a92846cf338b2327dcecb193f6c96928.jpg","w":1600,"h":1200,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/9\/a92846cf338b2327dcecb193f6c96928"}610768

Neither is very much yet, but the sun is very low. It gets higher along the spring and I might get the full 4 kW in April or May. And the day is very long in Finland dring the summer.

I have no battery bank for this. I rely on that everything goes to heating the house and my water. In the summer I will be selling everything that I don't use myself. That's actually no good business, yet. Because I pay high taxes on the power I buy, but I get a poor price for the power that I sell, and of course no tax refund for each sold kWh. But there are plans for a change on that. It would really boost solar panel markets, if one could simply pay taxes only for the difference. Now if I use 18 MWh per year and produce 4 MWh of which I sell 2 MWh, I pay the buyers price plus taxes for the 16 MWh which I had to buy. After that, I can sell the 2 MWh for a poorer price. I think I should be entitled to tax reductions for the 2 MWh that I've produced. When that is true, or when cheap batteries will be available, I might consider buy some more panels, say 5 more kW. I have a nice roof for that, pointing exactly to the South. Too bad there are some trees and houses shading the part of the roof that is not yet covered with panels.

bamccaig

Sounds like in Ontario it already works that way. You can either sell what you don't use to the grid and have that subtracted from your consumption, or sell everything at an apparently better than market price and then buy your own consumption at market price.

Bruce Perry

Indeed, watts are a measure of energy converted per second (not total energy converted). 1 watt is 1 joule per second.

The energy industry tends to measure in kilowatt-hours which is just confusing. It's the same idea of multiplying power (watts) by time to get energy (joules), but introducing a factor of 1000/3600 compared to joules. Of course people confuse matters even further by incorrectly calling them kilowatts per hour half the time.

Johan Halmén

A kWh is kind of a handy unit, compared to J. Things that use the most electric energy in our home have effects around 1 kW. Or 0.5 to 3 kW. Heating, boiler, sauna, stove. And one hour is easier to handle than thousands of seconds, when thinking lof the time when we use these things.

Same goes for the solar panels. The max effect is 4 kW. And they work a few hours per day, not some ten thousand seconds. We tend to use units that give handy figures. We drink strong liquor in cl, soda in dl or l, though SI system nazis want us to use either ml or l.

bamccaig

I drink my liquor in glasses. >:( And my eye sight's fine.

Gideon Weems

Of course people confuse matters even further by incorrectly calling them kilowatts per hour half the time.

This contributed a great deal to my confusion. A kWh is a sustained rate of one kilowatt over one hour, not a ratio of kilowatts per hour.

The aforementioned bass amplifier has a maximum power consumption of 500 W. I would therefore consume 1 kWh of my total daily energy created (Johan's 5.3 kWh above) if I used the amp at full blast for two hours... I think I'm starting to understand.

Thanks, guys! If I were the cookie master, I would pass them out now.

Johan Halmén

Amarillon is the cookiemaster. He hasn't passed any yet. If he forgot to enable it, we have to start the thread all over again. Obama has to return to office and the whole election has to start all over again. And this time I promise not to speculate over what would happen, if Trump won.

bamccaig

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Cookies are for quitters. This thread has no cookies. It has no ending:

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Arvidsson

So... how about VR? Have you tried it? It's pretty cool I must say, got to borrow an Oculus Rift from a friend and just throwing stuff is so much fun which is kinda weird when comparing it to reality.

MiquelFire

I had tried a racing game on my Daydream, and that was enough to sale me on it. If only the Daydream controller wasn't so crap for that type of game.

bamccaig

Arvidsson, did you try virtually jerking off? Was it equally effective as the real thing? Apparently virtual groping is traumatic so we can only hope that virtual sex is just as real!

Bruce Perry

Ouch.

Still, at least it's a way to prolong threads.

Gideon Weems

On a related note, teabagging has been banned from the Killer Instinct world tournament circuit.

On a related note, I had no idea Killer Instinct had a world tournament circuit.

Polybios

The only thing traumatic here is the extent of intellectual pain ("Ouch.") that certain posts cause. :P

Mark Oates

On a related note, teabagging has been banned from the Killer Instinct world tournament circuit.

Slicing up your opponent with swords, knocking them off a building, totally fine. It's fantasy!

But the teabagging, it's just too close to home. :-[

Eric Johnson

But the teabagging, it's just too close to home.

You knew uncle Joe, too? :'(

bamccaig

I find that absolutely ridiculous. I have watched a lot of pro-level CS:GO lately (there's a tournament in Atlanta or something), and I can't say I've noticed it, but then it also wouldn't stand out because I've seen it enough times (and generally it's not especially provocative). Also in CS:GO they're usually pretty busy trying to grab weapons and utility if necessary, or just generally trying to stay psyched up for the the rest of the match. In any case, I wouldn't support any kind of ban. If a pro wants to teabag somebody that's fine. I don't think it would really affect any pros. I seriously don't think they could have gotten to that level if it did. And if it's because of the sexual innuendo and trying to make the tournaments family friendly, fuck that because it's a mature game and there's absolutely no reason to do that and anybody that could figure out what it means on their own is old enough to see it. I can see why they would want to keep the game somewhat clean for sponsorship purposes, but I don't think that anybody watching a video game tournament (i.e., the target of the ads) would be offended either.

Edgar Reynaldo

Personally, I find it offensive. If I want to play a violent game, fine. But keep your teabagging and your verbal abuse to yourself. You should be banned. :P

And don't give me that "just ignore it" shit either.

And while you're at it, take your "locker room talk" and stuff it.

And one last thing. The only ones who should be deported are Trump and his KKK buddies.

bamccaig

It's not that simple. Everybody has to agree on what behavior is problematic. In particular, the majority of gamers should have more say than the minority of easily offended ones. If a few people are offended by behavior we shouldn't prohibit it to suit the special snowflakes. It's only behavior that most of us agree is problematic that should be punished. Teabagging is definitely not one of them. The gaming community fucking loves it. The Internet loves it. That's one of the greatest things about the Internet. That kind of creativity and comradery.

Even once you do define the behaviors that are problematic policing them is another problem. You can't really let the players police it because trolls will group together and abuse that power to hurt people. And there isn't enough manpower to police the entire gaming world, let alone finding people that you can trust to do the policing. The best solution is to provide players with reasonable powers to limit the abuse. A basic tool is being able to mute other players that you don't want to hear. Usually you require a voting system for things like kicks and bans, but it's rarely going to work because people enjoy being trolls. In CS:GO it's common for people to get kicked out of the game for the lulz, but when somebody is actually hacking or being a nuisance it's rare for them to get kicked.

People are assholes and the Internet allows them to go all out. Of course, perhaps that's a good thing. Perhaps it gives them an outlet to be an asshole without actually hurting anybody. We can't be too rash to make changes to a system without fully understanding the entire system. You kick them out of Counter-Strike perhaps they'll go outside and start torturing cats and upgrade to murdering people. There's no telling.

Human behavior is complex. The best thing that you can do is not let it bother you. Don't feed the troll. That just makes it stronger.

GullRaDriel

I had to talk else those two bastards who have killed the thread. They put so much nonsense in their replies that even I start to be readable and understandable.

As a human, I pee on all those politic fuckers. Wait, what, did you even start to think that they CARE for YOU ? Haha. Let me LMAO.

Be it Clinton or Trump both are horrible. Actually one of my preferred moment of the week is when I see Sen. Sanders destroy them at the parliament. Be it DT himself or one of the fuckers he nominated.

It's Monday here. I also have some roadwork just down the windows. It just makes programming/living harder.

Plus part of you Americans got Trump to be president. Who do you think is to blame ?

bamccaig

Let's discuss the temper tantrums people are throwing by rioting in the streets, destroying property, and reportedly also attacking people. And of course, the police resistance to it. Either Trump won fair and square and they have nothing to be so upset about or the election was somehow rigged. Though there was apparently reason to believe that Bush Jr.'s first election was rigged and they never rioted for that as I recall, and apparently even re-elected him?! People are insane.

Apparently there was a shooting at a mosque in Quebec (French province of Canada). 6 dead, many others injured. It's unclear if it's related at all to the unrest to the South. It's not entirely clear what happened, but one of the suspects apparently has a "Muslim name". One of the two suspects has also apparently been cleared as nothing more than a witness, but I haven't had any success figuring out which of the two is the witness.

Arvidsson

Jesus christ you guys, such downers. VR is so much fun! And with Unity I can get up and running and make simple demos in no time. Engines are awesome, woooo! It's so much fun to just create pointless shit because it's fun to play around and not take everything so fucking seriously. :)

Eric Johnson

Until I can pet a dog in VR, I won't spend any of my hard-earned cash on the fad. >:(

bamccaig

Until I can pet a pussy in VR I won't spend any of my hard-earned cash on the fad either. >:(

Edgar Reynaldo

And you guys wonder why this forum is dying when all you do is spout vulgar trash. Fucking lame. >:(

Johan Halmén

I wrote post #500. We have 50 to go to get to 1k. We should make it special. Who do you think earns the honour?

Arvidsson

You can pet a robot dog and throw sticks for it to fetch in Valve's The Lab demo. But I agree it's a bit pricey at the moment to get into, especially if your computer is not up to par and you need to upgrade that as well.

I played around with a game prototype I had made in Unity from before, where you can drive around different vehicles in a small city. In an hour I had VR implemented in the game and could walk around these pretty massive buildings, and drive around in a vehicle. It was easier to cope with the locomotion when sitting down on the floor when driving though :)

Eric Johnson

I'm a bit ignorant on the happenings of VR, to be honest. Can you even move around freely in VR? I've seen a few VR demos on YouTube, and in most of them you just point where you'd like to move, and then it teleports you there. That is not my idea of fun movement. I've seen others where you can move around freely though. I'm not sure which VR "solution" offered what though.

I've also heard that many people become sick due to the disassociation from their VR movements and real-life movements. I wonder how that will be tackled in the long run.

Finally, I read an article a few months prior about people contracting eye herpes from VR demos. That's enough to steer me clear of trying any demos. :o

[EDIT]
Here is a link to an article talking about contracting ocular herpes from VR headsets.

Also, doesn't it seem silly for companies and individuals to make non-first-person games for VR? Third-person games or 2D games, for example, seem totally pointless on VR, because instead of experiencing the game from the eyes of one of the characters, you suddenly become just a floating camera (which might work well for "god games").

Arvidsson

I'm a bit ignorant on the happenings of VR, to be honest. Can you even move around freely in VR? I've seen a few VR demos on YouTube, and in most of them you just point where you'd like to move, and then it teleports you there. That is not my idea of fun movement. I've seen others where you can move around freely though. I'm not sure which VR "solution" offered what though.

Depends on the game implementation. Both Oculus and Vive supports teleportation, locomotion and everything inbetween. And both have room scale, so you can move your body within the area you set up in your room and it will translate into the game.

Quote:

I've also heard that many people become sick due to the disassociation from their VR movements and real-life movements. I wonder how that will be tackled in the long run.

Yeah, it depends on how easy you get seasick for example. You often need to get your "sea legs" when using locomotion, so the more you play the less affected you get.

Quote:

Finally, I read an article a few months prior about people contracting eye herpes from VR demos. That's enough to steer me clear of trying any demos.

Hehe, I have never heard of that. If you're really worried, don't let anyone else use your gear then.

Quote:

Also, doesn't it seem silly for companies and individuals to make non-first-person games for VR? Third-person games or 2D games, for example, seem totally pointless on VR, because instead of experiencing the game from the eyes of one of the characters, you suddenly become just a floating camera (which might work well for "god games").

Yes, some game types don't translate well. But VR is also an opportunity to invent new genres and game types I think. And nothing beats the immersion, so even if you're just a camera looking down on a playfield, say a god game where you can control minions - the physics of it brings so much more to the gameplay and enjoyment, like holding an item in your hand and it translates and rotates with your every hand movement. It's VERY cool.

Gideon Weems

... even if you're just a camera looking down on a playfield, say a god game where you can control minions - the physics of it brings so much more to the gameplay and enjoyment...

I want to try this. Looking around in 1:1 first-person space is one thing, but head-tracked camera movement applied to top-down camera angles is entirely different. The former brings new complications to the table, but the latter would be an improvement in every regard (provided the player has a working neck).

I imagine a virtual tabletop would make this an intuitive interface, like Warhammer but with living, breathing pieces.

Johan Halmén

I just bought a cardboard VR set for 9.90 €. What a funny gadget.

jmasterx

We are number one

But it's BamBam on drums and Dr. Leverton on vocals

Rodolfo Lam

Come on people, don't let this die unless it gets to at least 1K posts. 43 to go.

I can feel Matthew is waiting for post 999 to happen so he can post something hilarious as post 1000.

bamccaig

ML is more likely to close the thread at 998. :P That's right, I said it. >:(

In any case, I agree, do not let it die now. This thread better be around for my grandchildren.

Eric Johnson

I made popcorn on the stove tonight. But I didn't use enough oil, so some of the it burned. :'(

DanielH

Burnt popcorn is a horrible smell.

Eric Johnson

Indeed. The scent lingers for hours.

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

ML is more likely to close the thread at 998. :P That's right, I said it. >:(

Shh! Don't give him any ideas!

Chalk another one up! Raaaagh!

Mark Oates

Posting for prosperity!

Bruce Perry

Posing our posteriors?

I uploaded a piano concerto :)

Eric Johnson

Posteriors? Now that's a topic I can really get behind. ;)

Derezo

I made popcorn on the stove tonight. But I didn't use enough oil, so some of the it burned. :'(

I once made popcorn using the grease left over from frying a pound of bacon.

Don't do that.

Bruce Perry
Quote:

Don't do that.

8a2a7d58e5e5dd67edfdf2ec69f301f901255e0e.jpg {"name":"S-and-T-07.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/6\/c6bf8a0f6bb662a8a1b0fc474c82ada9.jpg","w":1001,"h":766,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/6\/c6bf8a0f6bb662a8a1b0fc474c82ada9"}S-and-T-07.jpg

Is it just me that sees the similarity? :)

Character comes from this show:

video

bamccaig

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Valentine's Day

No, actually, my finacee caught a bad case of what the ER doctor figured is the flu. We skipped out on our plans, and had a rough rest of the week. We're both still fighting it with no end in sight. I can't even drink alcohol! Aside from trying to keep our fevers in check, the beer doesn't taste right and I can't drink it down fast enough. :'(

Neuton Mouse

Is my thread in depot locked? I press "Post Reply" and nothing happens, page refreshes, unlikely here in this topic...

Or it's anti double posting security feature?

Bruce Perry

Your thread is open :) Here's a locked thread for comparison.

You're right, you can't double-post, because we abused it decades ago (note that the rapid-fire posts in that thread became reordered in a database import so you're not seeing the original order). What you can do is edit your post and then click 'Send to Top' if you want to. :)

(See, it paid off that we kept this thread open, didn't it 8-) )

Neuton Mouse

Thanks Bruce Perry. All clear now.

Yep, paid off. This topic feels like this is some sort of ancient cavemen campfire that everyone keeps for centuries.

Got my share of fire today :)

Bruce Perry

There were 972 replies before I posted, so this is reply 973, post 974. After this, there are 26 to go. That's as many as there are letters in the alphabet. Perhaps a game can be derived from that observation? :)

Chris Katko

(A)bsolutely. I'm doing my part.

[edit] Looking through that thread. Man, we sure talked like teenagers... then again I was like... 15. So many people I miss...

MiquelFire

(B)ut are we going to be able to keep this going without the thread locking up on us?

Elias

(C)ould get problematic once we reach X now. Not many words start with it.

bamccaig

(D)rinking again. Finally feeling a bit better... Still seem to have a cough. At least my body still seems to be attacking something. Have to go back to work tomorrow... :(

Eric Johnson

(E)ric is my name. 8-) It was like this was meant to be. My whole life has lead to this post.

Bruce Perry

(F)uck I knew that would happen! [(E)lias, the trick is to make sure that just before we get to X, we have linked to an article by or about a person of a suitably confusing gender... *shudder*]

bamccaig

(G)ood thing nobody saw it though!

Eric Johnson

[H]ow many genders are there again, Bruce? ???

Gideon Weems

[I]nfinite.

bamccaig

{J}ust stick to a bracketing scheme, will ya?

Eric Johnson

<K>londike bar... what would you do for one? ;)

bamccaig

/L/ick it, but only if it asked politely.

MiquelFire

!M!y god this is going out of control!

Arvidsson

No, this is completely normal.

Gideon Weems

Only I get to have Z. You guys agree, right?

Niunio

(P)lease don't be sad if I answer "not" but it is what I should do.

Elias said:

(C)ould get problematic once we reach X now. Not many words start with it.

I have a perfect sentence for that message. :)

Eric Johnson

~Q~uickly, let's wrap this up before I have to go to work.

bamccaig

`R`ap this up, you say?

Chris Katko

(S)uppose we just kept going forever until Matthew's hard drive filled up?

Niunio

(T)hat's the idea. ;D

Eric Johnson

{U}nlikely to happen in this thread, but we can certainly try. ;)

MiquelFire

|V|ery likely we'll just hurt his wallet in the long run. I think the site is on AWS now a days.

Arvidsson

*W*hen will this madness end?

bamccaig

"X" marks the treasure, or so the saying goes, but what marks the end of madness?

MiquelFire

'Y'ay! We're almost done with this game!

Eric Johnson

{Z}elda: Breath of the Wild looks like fun. 8-)

Edit
So do we go to "ZA" from here? :P

bamccaig

South Africa sounds like a rather intriguing place to visit, but I think I'll have to pass. I can't afford it... :(

Eric Johnson

The next best thing to visiting South Africa would be to buy allegro.za. We gotta increase Allegro's global reach, people!

Edit
Oops... That makes 1000 replies. Anything broken? ???

Chris Katko

1001?

Perhaps it'll spin over at 1024.

Eric Johnson

Allegro.cc done broke. (I totally didn't edit the CSS...) :o

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Mark Oates

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^ Us after all these years of hard work on this thread. >:(

It shows that despite all the failed Monday projects, we can come through on something! >:(

Arvidsson

Anyone say Monday project? I'm in!

Elias

But mere massive multiplayer is so outdated, let's do something that adds VR and AR this time!

Gideon Weems

I'm not playing unless I have to wear a headset.

Arvidsson

What about an utility toolkit library for game development which would be the basis for an editor à la Unity/Ue4/GameMaker where multiple scripting languages are integrated (lua, python, whatever people like) which supports different levels of expertise - from visual programming for newbies to bare-metal coding where the editor would only really help with project organisation and creating builds for all the platforms we want to support.

I think if we all put our minds to it, this could be done in a monday or two. Everything is built using Allegro ofc.

Chris Katko

What if I told you... the forum... was the game?

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bamccaig

The drinking game.

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Eric Johnson

Is the objective of the drinking game to become the most drunk or the least drunk?

DanielH

Whomever can drink the most without passing out (or spewing)

Bruce Perry

DanielH, do you think it's possible to get spanners shaped like your avatar?

Chris Katko

Okay, let's do this.

video

Bruce Perry

If you got through the cartoon version, try the live action version :)

video

Chris Katko

Wow, that one takes the disgusting cake...

video

Sandlot.

[edit] Ahaha I just remembered Stand By Me as well.

video

Bruce Perry

Love 'em :)

Then there's always Mr Creosote:

video

Onewing

I wanted to reply to a thread with zero replies, but it was locked.
Ironically, the thread complaining about thread locks was also locked, so I couldn't add my complaint there.

Even more ironically, the thread requesting the removal of thread locking has yet to lock, thus proving that thread locking is still valid and that threads simply have to be interesting enough for them to persist on the a.cc forums.

And now, a haiku:
All we are is dust
In the wind, so too do threads
Lock ever too soon

Mark Oates

Oh BTW, Bitcoin has just reached a new all-time-high:

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That was earlier, too, now it's at 1.211 :o

bamccaig

I wish I had bitcoins, but I don't. I have no idea what 1.211 means. Is that thousands of USD?! Or just 1.211 USD? I've never found a marketplace that I was able to get into, and trusted. The thought of putting too much investment in the cloud is also concerning since I don't have a very thorough backup process and I could see losing the entire wallet due to hardware failure or luser error.

Of course, the off-topic boards have always been the most lively hang out spot for the community. Turns out a lot of us don't spend much time programming games. Especially now. Which is probably OK. I think there's value in the community that has formed, even what's left of it. A lot of the newbie questions have been beaten to death. What I do find interesting is that there does seem to be quite a few Allegro 5 questions, but there's relatively few people with the expertise to answer them i.e., boards can't be active with on-topic posts because few people have that knowledge. Arguably, it's Allegro 5 that killed this forum, regardless of its technical merits. I think it has seen increased adoption though so I think it's a slowly recovering crash instead of an extinction.

It's also worth noting that this thread has survived largely due to the inactivity of the boards and moderators. If this was a thriving place and moderators were on alert this thread probably would have been locked ages ago.

Mark Oates

1000 mBTC = 1 Bitcoin

1 Bitcoin = $1,200 USD

Johan Halmén

Anyone here own bitcoins? If I were offered one bitcoin for something, what would I have to pay to receive and own it? Some registration fee?

Btw, only 3 posts to 1024.

bamccaig

Bitcoins are just a virtual currency. You'd trade for them, either with money or whatever commodity that the trader wanted (virtual or real, money or material). If you were "offered" a bitcoin you would likely already know what you owed for it: whatever product or service was requested. In any case, the idea of the system is that it's peer-to-peer. You generate a "wallet" using cryptographic algorithms in the software and the network tracks transactions to and from that wallet using peer-to-peer based cryptographic operations. The idea being that only the holder of a "wallet's" cryptographic secrets can make transactions for that wallet, and the validity of any transaction is verified by the network of peers (to keep everybody honest). There's no registration fee because nobody owns it.

However, the hard thing is getting involved at all. Bitcoins started out as a rare commodity awarded to those that could answer complicated mathematical problems. The only way to solve them was "mining" which meant lots of computer horsepower working to beat the next guy to the answer. That's just the system devised to initialize the market more or less.

The only other way to acquire bitcoins other than mining is to buy or trade them with people that already have them. Therein lies the problem. Finding a safe way to make the trade, while gambling on the value of the virtual currency itself whose so called value is subject to market influences not entirely predictable. Various "hubs" try to operate as a so-called "bank" which pretty much just means they're willing to trade bitcoins for real world currency. Of course, due to the nature of bitcoins themselves, you're really at their mercy. Essentially, you hand them real world money, and then they're supposed to send you bitcoins via a computer transaction that no government or bank can police. You can imagine how this can go wrong.

As with most investments there's nothing inherently safe about bitcoins.

Chris Katko

I wish I had some money last year to buy AMD stock at a mere <$2.00. Yesterday it was over $14/share.

Johan Halmén

This is post # 0b10000000000.

DanielH

DanielH, do you think it's possible to get spanners shaped like your avatar?

Possibly. Might have some copyright issues. This is one of the lions from the 80's cartoon Voltron.

Bruce Perry

Johan, is it Post # 0b1 kenobi?

Eric Johnson

¿uǝʞoɹq buıɥʇʎuɐ sı 'os

Gideon Weems

I wish I had some money last year to buy AMD stock at a mere <$2.00. Yesterday it was over $14/share.

You know, I wrote off AMD on account of poor performance of their graphics hardware department (business-wise, relative to Nvidia). I practically forgot they also competed with Intel.

Chris Katko

I never buy AMD / ATI video cards. Never had good luck with them. The price point and program compatibility tends to be better with nVidia.

But I'm all about some AMD CPUs!

Bruce Perry

I just fitted one of these to our thread gate, using supplies ordered yesterday and received today, a Sunday, from Amazon (it's amazing that that's possible). Now we can come and go that way with our bicycles and leave the thread gate locked without having to go through the house again :)

Sorry, I'm too lazy to go out again and take a photo :P

Chris Katko

That's cool.

Back in engineering college, some kids took a deadbolt and added a car locking mechanism so they could have keyless entry to their dorm rooms. ;)

bamccaig

Apparently I'm bad at math. You're supposed to replace your motorcycle helmet approximately every 5 years (I've heard) because the protective layers degrade over time and the helmet is less effective. I thought that I had been riding for 5 years, but upon closer scrutiny from Miranda it has only been 4 seasons. In any case, the other night I got drunk and ordered a helmet for $300 USD. My original helmet was about $200 CAD, but I sought better protection given my added knowledge. My "upgrade", if I decide to keep it, will be Snell 2010 certified, whereas my original helmet was merely DOT. That's the major difference.

I'm guessing that it will be D-loop instead of the clicky-ratchet fastener on my Joe Rocket helmet. That gives me slight pause because I imagine it will be difficult to do with gloves on, and on probably 10 or more occasions I've ridden off while forgetting to do my helmet up so it'll be even more of an adventure pulling over and taking gloves off to fasten it, but I imagine it's worth the added safety. Additionally, there is no retractable Sun visor, which seems consistent with Snell helmets so I assume it has a lot to do with the safety again. Nevertheless, it was certainly convenient to be able to swap between a darkened visor and clear visor while on the move. I'm concerned how that will affect me. I distinctly remember moving between heavily shadowed and heavily lighted spots back and forth on the same road and being able to transition on the move, but being practically blind for the moments in between. I can only assume that if I'm blind then the 5000 lb vehicle behind me probably also has a blind driver so pulling off of the road, if I can find it, is probably not the best idea.

In any case, this was my compromise:

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/scorpion-exo-r2000-fortis-helmet

I stayed consistent and bought it in white/black. It looks decently bright to attract attention. Immediately when I told Miranda she said she could use the other one! Turns out, maybe true, but assuming they fit, and I don't think my other one does, I'd insist on her wearing the new one if we do partner up. Even with the helmet she is still missing a lot of expensive riding gear, and I still have gloves and pants to replace for myself. :-/ Riding a bike is so rewarding, but also so expensive...

Chris Katko

I have never in my life heard "helmets degrade over time."

Degrade from what? The sun? That'd be the paint.

There are so many layers to a helmet, the only layer affected would be the outermost. (Aside from padding but that's from usage.)

There "may" be truth to that but that sounds insane and retarded. Who designs a helmet THAT FAILS? What if your seatbelt failed after a few years? What if your airbags failed? Why doesn't your leather coat fail? Your boots?

And I'm not talking about wear from usage. But wear from time? The only time wear I've ever seen is oxidation and UV damage. (ala your tires on your car crack if left in the sun for years.)

But helmets? The only helmets I even have are over 15 years old. My Dad drove for decades on the "replace when you crash" policy, since helmets (like your car body) are built to collapse on impact to help absorb the energy instead of sending it into your brain bucket. And even then you only need to replace from significant impacts. (Minor impacts aren't going to trigger a breakdown. Bumping your head on the door frame as you walk in the house doesn't cause an explosion.)

Don't get me wrong. If you've got money to spare, safety is a pretty damn good investment.

bamccaig

You're probably somewhat correct in that the helmet won't magically fail in 5 years. However, it's not a complete myth according to Snell: http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aWhyReplace.

Quote:

The five-year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production can affect liner materials. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five-year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five-year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy.

In general, while you can't know for certain that a helmet has degraded sufficiently to fail in 5 years, you also can't know for certain (without testing it, which is probably going to cost about the same as a replacement) that it hasn't. As you say, safety is a pretty damn good investment. It can be damn scary to come to grips with how vulnerable you are on a motorcycle. Over the few years I have ridden I have come close to quitting because of it. It's certainly a bit of peace of mind to imagine that your head is somehow relatively safe in the event of an accident. The thought that your helmet might not be working at peak efficiency is certainly cause for concern, especially over time. Last year I was even feeling nervous about it, which now I can't imagine why if that was only actually 3 years old. I digress. I think that motorcycling is also tailed by many myths so it's worth considering that this is just one of those. But again, $150 - 500 every 5 years is probably not an unreasonable precaution.

Chris Katko

For a serious rider, yeah, I'd definitely err on the side of caution.

My bike has been a "a project" for 99% of it's life and "drivable" for like 1%, so I'm more of a "it's a beautiful day, let's drive through the mountains" kind of guy than a "let's drive to work even when it's hailing and there's rush hour traffic trying to murder you." Especially as I've gotten older.

I sometimes wish I grew up in the 70's so I could experience practically EVERYONE owning a bike. During their peak popularity, motorcycle culture was really big, but it was also much safer. Why? Because people were used to seeing motorcycles on the road so they looked out for them, whereas now bicycles and motorcycles are so rare you have to be half-suicidal to ride them around road traffic.

Even if you're looking out for riders, they can easily be missed in your A-pillar or blind spot. But since people are even MORE distracted with their phones these days, it's suicide-city. Hell, I had a dumb !@$!@ stop a stop sign, and then proceed to NOT LOOK, and then proceed to drive forward t-boning my car. (A great feeling staring up at a SUV radiator sucking in air right next to my face.) She said, "I didn't even see you!" Yeah, sure. She didn't "see" a car that looked like a police car. (Of all cars, you'd pay the most attention to a cop, right?)

If you can't "see" a cop car, then you sure as hell aren't going to see a motorcycle.

Sidenote: I don't know how it is for you ultra-northerners, but almost every time I've been hit by a car down here in Tennessee, they didn't have insurance, a driver's license, OWN the car "it's my brother's car.", and just so happened to be an illegal immigrant.

And that may sound like some not-so-clever jab at immigration but it's not. It's actually my experience.

bamccaig

It may be true that motorcycle awareness was higher in the 70's, but [citation needed] that it was safer. Insert: Not only was the quality of gear less, but the performance of the bikes was lesser too (though there are still plenty of boats available if you're into that sort of thing)!

As for personal experiences, I have never been in an accident of any kind (knock on wood?), and have actually had relatively few close calls on my bike as well as cars. Nevertheless, the close calls on a bike are far more terrifying. And yes, phones are a major cause for concern...

Had a guy in a pickup truck blow through a 4-way stop a fraction of a second in front of me after I had already stopped and started. Probably the only thing that saved me was that my eyes happened to scan up the road as I was start off and I realized he wasn't slowing down and let off. Up here, I think it's possible to stay relatively safe, but you do need to be pro-active about it and drive defensively. It's not very hip, but neither are broken bones and skin grafts. :P

Chris Katko
bamccaig said:

Probably the only thing that saved me was that my eyes happened to scan up the road as I was start off and I realized he wasn't slowing down and let off. Up here, I think it's possible to stay relatively safe, but you do need to be pro-active about it and drive defensively. It's not very hip, but neither are broken bones and skin grafts. :P

I know right? I actually drive the same way when I'm in a car. Driving a 5-speed really focuses you to to be a "think ahead" driver because you have to understand the situation BEFORE you get there so you can keep the gear in the right place for your needs. So I'm always scanning the horizon.

I really want to rig up a Gaze Tracker, a pair of cameras with the right math transformations so you can translate between eyes, and what the eyes are looking at. I want to compare myself, and other drivers, as well as with distractions. I also want to experiment with my dogs with it.

Here's a great example of eye tracking being used for... a movie. Helping explain what people are doing when in a scene, and how their eyes begin to wander as the begin to subconsciously get bored.

https://vimeo.com/19788132

bamccaig

My helmet has arrived. :-* It's pretty nice. Some true upgrades over my original helmet which I bought before I knew anything about the sport or gear. I think it will take some serious practice getting used to doing and undoing the double D-rings. My first helmet had a simple clicky quick-release system, but I think the double D-ring system is probably also a lot safer. It will also take some planning to work out which visor to use. My original helmet had a retractable Sun visor that could be dropped down while riding. Now I've got two separate visors that need to be swapped while off the bike (and obviously stored somewhere if you travel with it).

Mark Oates

lo1 this thread is like our own quiet peaceful protest :P

Chris Katko

3... 2... 1...

I voted for Trump.

Eric Johnson

I voted for Trump.

Me too. Is America "great again"™ yet?

bamccaig

I would have, but they wouldn't let me. >:(

I'm not saying Trump is a good candidate, but Hillary is worse.

We all need to work on fixing our political systems so instead of picking the lesser evil of the elite, we can pick the best person for the job.

Eric Johnson

I agree. I hope Trump does well by the American people and makes advances to clean up political corruption. One can only hope...

Also:

bamccaig said:

I would have, but they wouldn't let me. >:(

Why wouldn't they let you?

bamccaig

Something about, "you're not from here!"

Also I don't think there's much hope left for him to do a good job. I haven't been paying much attention, but what I've heard so far has been pretty bad.

Aaron Bolyard
  • Trump lies five ways to Monday about everything (important and unimportant).

  • Trump did not give up ownership his businesses and continues to financially benefit from them. (For crying out loud, Jimmy Carter relinquished his *peanut farm* and then was investigated for it).

  • Trump's anti-Muslim ban is unconstitutional.

  • Trump removed the Joint Chief of Staffs and Director of National Intelligence from resident positions in the Principals Committee, while having the grossly underqualified Bannon have a permanent seat.

  • Trump has removed protections for transgender students being able to use the bathroom of their gender in schools.

  • Betsy Devos has no experience in education, yet is chosen and confirmed to lead the Department of Education. She clearly is for privatizations and has a vendetta against public schools. (I actually listened to her confirmation hearing. It's very clear. Did any of you?)

  • Jeff Sessions has recused himself from investigations into Trump's campaign; he lied under oath about Russian contacts; and he has a force against civil rights during his political career. (Again, I listened to his his confirmation hearing and followed up on claims made by the Senators questioning him. He is not an 'egalitarian', as his fellows claimed.)

  • Michael Flynn had to resign because of his Russian connections during the campaign.

  • Rex Tillerson is incredibly supportive of Russia; he is against sanctions and has lobbied for Russian interests in past. (Actually listened to the confirmation hearing, again).

These are off the top of my head.

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

Something about, "you're not from here!"

Ah, my bad. I didn't know you lived in Canada. Is it true that they sell milk in bags there? :o

Trump's anti-Muslim ban is unconstitutional.

How so?

Quote:

Trump has removed protections for transgender students being able to use the bathroom of their gender in schools.

That should be a state issue, in my opinion.

Quote:

Betsy Devos has no experience in education, yet is chosen and confirmed to lead the Department of Education. She clearly is for privatizations and has a vendetta against public schools. (I actually listened to her confirmation hearing. It's very clear. Did any of you?)

I agree with you there.

bamccaig

  • Trump has removed protections for transgender students being able to use the bathroom of their gender in schools.

Which one? This I don't think begs mentioning since it's not necessarily bad.

I also don't think having "Russian" ties or being generally supportive of cooperation with Russia is in itself a bad thing. Sounds like a good thing to me. Of course, bad things could be done with it.

I think it's already been mentioned, but Trump's election is the counter-assault in response to extremist social justice warriors that are trying to make the world cater to the whims of professional victims and mentally ill people. Hillary Clinton might as well have been the Queen of the SJWs.

Append:

Is it true that they sell milk in bags there? :o

Yes! That's all I knew growing up!

Samuel Henderson

Trump's anti-Muslim ban is unconstitutional.

That's some anti-Muslim ban... It has no effect on the other 87% of Muslims not from those 7 countries!

Quote:

Trump has removed protections for transgender students being able to use the bathroom of their gender in schools.

In reality all he's done is said that the Federal Government will no longer be providing guidance on the issue and will instead defer the power back to states... which is absolutely where it needs to be.

Quote:

Jeff Sessions has recused himself from investigations into Trump's campaign; he lied under oath about Russian contacts; and he has a force against civil rights during his political career. (Again, I listened to his his confirmation hearing and followed up on claims made by the Senators questioning him. He is not an 'egalitarian', as his fellows claimed.)

I listened to his confirmation hearing too! I thought it was quite obvious that Sen. Franken's question was specific to Sessions being in contact with the Russians in his capacity as a surrogate on the Trump campaign. The fact that he met with the Russian ambassador twice in his capacity as a Senator is not really surprising. I think one of those times he actually met twenty or so ambassadors at once, one of whom was the Russian ambassador. I suppose his answer could have been better had he qualified it with a statement that he had no contact with the ambassador as a Trump surrogate... but oh well. I don't think he's done anything criminal in this situation so he'll probably not be forced out.

Quote:

Michael Flynn had to resign because of his Russian connections during the campaign.

Well, actually, he had to resign because he lied about his contact with the Russian ambassador to Mike Pence, who then went and repeated the lie to the American public. If he had been honest and said "Yeah, Kislyak and I did discuss Pres. Obama's sanctions." then he would still be in office today.

I either agree with your other points or don't know enough about the situation to comment.

That being said, here's a couple more points that I disagree with Trump on:

  • He won't release his tax returns

  • He kicked CNN, the NY Times, and a bunch of other news orgs out of the press pool

  • He's upping the military budget by $54bn

bamccaig said:

I would have, but they wouldn't let me.
...
Something about, "you're not from here!"

Pfft... that didn't stop me 8-)

Bruce Perry
bamccaig said:

We all need to work on fixing our political systems so instead of picking the lesser evil of the elite, we can pick the best person for the job.

Also worth considering: proportional representation. In the simple case where we have two candidates and about half the population voting for each, they work together on an equal footing. In reality you'd have many more candidates and many more places.

Aaron, welcome back! But why get involved in politics again? You know this community will never agree on these things ;)

I have a question for you. What do you make of Reuters? They claim to try to report everything objectively, even going so far as to avoid referring to people as 'terrorists' since one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. I'm naturally desperate for a news source that I can really trust.

Here's one glowing endorsement for Reuters (you can choose whether to watch it, I don't mind at all):

video

TL;DR: Reuters used an accurate headline of "Oregon mass shooting survivor posts account of blood, pain and healing", while many other outlets made "Shooter acted 'like he was playing a video game' " the focus of their headlines, when it was just a side-comment to describe the shooter's nonchalance.

Aaron Bolyard

Aaron, welcome back! But why get involved in politics again? You know this community will never agree on these things

I wanted to post about a bug I fixed in my project, but figured it wouldn't be as fun as kicking a hornet's nest. (I jest.) I only visit because I want to make a patch to update Allegro 5's OpenGL bindings.

Reuters is good. I'm subscribed to BBC, NPR, Al Jazeera, and Reuters in my newsreader. BBC is pretty good neutral world news source, NPR and Reuters are the same but also provides more coverage of America, and Al Jazeera offers a more critical view of American policy in the Middle East but is otherwise generally balanced.

Chris Katko

Trump may be President, and I know that pisses off liberals, but hey, at least you didn't spend the last two hours watching Alien vs Predator: Requiem.

That might be the worst movie I've ever watched... ever.

I may actually be dying now. I can feel my immune system shutting down because I've lost the will to continue living knowing that AvP:R exists.

Bruce Perry

What you want is the Soviet regime. They policed creativity and might not have allowed AvP:R to exist. They did it badly though: anyone can tell that Shostakovich's music tells the true story there :)

I'm not sure how I feel about the BBC. Of course they're a large organisation with many different people with different personalities, as evidenced by on the one hand: outright illegally racist recruitment policies (they publicly exclude white people from consideration), and on the other hand: the series 'Revolting', where they made fun of Islamic State and triggered a few people. I do find it interesting that they were one of the outlets excluded from that meeting - it suggests that at the very least they have been trying to make Trump look worse than he is. Reuters were allowed in.

GullRaDriel

Enough Trumpism ^^

Bruce Perry

Good luck stopping people talking about Trump.

Yesterday I learnt two new pieces of German:

1. "Trump ist ein Trampel."
2. "Jedes Böhnchen gibt ein Tönchen."

Here are the translations:

1. "Trump is a plonker."

2. "Beans, beans, they're good for your heart.
The more you eat, the more you Trump."

;D

Chris Katko

Trump is so polarizing you can just say his name and people can't but help bring up a point or story. I kind of like it. Feels like the Bush days where people called him the devil. Which is freaking HILARIOUS because now the liberal media... LIKES BUSH!?!? And shows him hanging with Michelle Obama, and quote him about how Trump sucks. They literally called Bush The Devil, and now they quote him and hang out with him.

It just goes to show how empty the MSM's words and accusations are. There's really no surprise that they're just a propoganda wing for big corporations (remember when liberals were AGAINST billion dollar multinational corporations like walmart killing off the mom-and-pop stores?) Now they're all about Starbucks. Money money money.

Aaron Bolyard

Controversial opinion: as a leftist (the term 'liberal' has connotation with free markets), mom & pop shops are no better, and due to the way regulations work, possibly worse than Wal-Mart in some respects (for employees, environment, etc). There is no such thing as an ethical corporation while the value of our labor is not fully, fairly, and equally compensated.

Non-controversial opinion: Behavior trees are amazing. I've been working on an AI framework built on behavior trees and it's wonderful. The AI framework is a component of a greater system and communicates asynchronously with the other bits over a custom messaging protocol. I use coroutines to yield executing nodes while waiting on results and it Just Works (tm). I'm working on a scheduling system, since I don't want the behavior trees to be too nested.

The agent would be able to set "I want to kill 50 demons" as its task. It will perform prerequisite tasks (obtain armor and weapons, obtain food, go to demon place), complete task properly (obtain more food, repair armor and weapons, etc), and then decide on another. By creating larger 'goal' that have other goal tasks as prerequisites, I could have the agent execute complex and seemingly spontaneous actions reliably and without any needless complexity.

Polybios

@Bruce Perry. Thank you for the English translations. ;)

I'm very curious how people will evaluate Trump's presidency in 4 years. Personally, I doubt the "greatness" will manifest itself, but it'd be a nice twist if it did.
USA's international reputation seems to have suffered already, but US people generally don't seem to care.

Bruce Perry

I've seen behavioUr trees implemented poorly. I improved the implementation and then saw them constructed poorly. Next I made a new implementation where the tree itself was constructed inline as code (an awesome system with lambdas), and then the official AI programmer recruited to take over from me while I moved on to other stuff, threw it all out and I have no idea what he did next. Finally the project got axed and everyone got made redundant. So, for me, they're controversial 8-) ;D

Meanwhile, at a university in Germany, I found a flyer about how Star Trek might be a feminist utopia. I immediately thought 'nope', and I couldn't help but notice the long list of trendy taboos (racism, antisemitism, etc.) in the last paragraph, but I have yet to decipher it all and work out why those taboos are mentioned. The event was this evening and will be taking place right now... :o

[EDIT]
Polybios: it didn't occur to me that someone might actually use my post as learning material :) So, here's the version I learnt at school, in full:

Beans, beans, they're good for your heart;
The more you eat, the more you fart.
The more you fart, the better you feel,
So let's have beans with every meal.

Here's the version I heard on The Simpsons, which doesn't suffer from the forced rhyme:

Beans, beans, the musical fruit:
The more you eat, the more you toot.

Aaron Bolyard

I made browned-butter chocolate chip cookies today and two loaves of a chocolate coffee bread. Stuck one loaf in the freezer. I toast a slice with breakfast.

The problem with snacks is I don't have to buy them--I can make them. So simply "not buying junk food" doesn't work. But luckily I have some bit of self control when it comes to eating; a pan of brownies lasts a week between my brother and me, for example. That's only like 150 calories/day extra, which is easy enough to manage.

(Sneaky bump.)

Mark Oates

OMG Guys last post was 3 days ago we're slipping!! :o

MiquelFire

We need to give Matt a false sense of security with this thread once in a while.

Chris Katko

What are some great tools people use for doing stuff?

Eric Johnson

The hammer is a pretty slick tool.

Chris Katko

Impact hammer drivers are pretty cool too.

I'm not talking about the powered ones. I'm talking about the ones you hit with a hammer, that turn on impact.

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Super useful, especially around motorcycles.

Eric Johnson

I didn't know there were "non-powered" ones! :o

Anyway, the fork is my favorite tool. ;D

Elias

Most important tool ever. Often enough I did not have one with me and had to ruin my keys or a fork or a table instead...

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Eric Johnson

What the... you don't need that "tool"! God gave you teeth for a reason, Elias. Use them. >:(

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Gideon Weems

I would marry my angle grinder, if it would accept me for the man I am.

Bruce Perry

My mum bought me one of these, but I have no use for it - I don't drink and will never want to host alcohol consumption. ::)

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bamccaig

You just need to summon your inner hacker/MacGuyver!

Eric Johnson

They rebooted that show. No Richard Dean Anderson though.

DanielH

The old ones are on Netflix. Watched 3 or 4 episodes and realized there was so much cheese in those things.

Eric Johnson

The cheese was half the fun! ;D

Chris Katko

NEXT WEEK. NEW DAVE CHAPPELLE on NETFLIX.

WOoo

Johan Halmén

A tiny crowbar. It's amazing how it fits in the smallest places and allows me to insert a heavier crowbar and finally demount things in my old house without destroying stuff very much.

DanielH

Johan, years of research should have revealed that it is a red (x button) not a (red x) button. ;D

Reminds me of those stupid Jaden Smith memes.

"When you clean out a vacuum cleaner, you become the vacuum cleaner"

Johan Halmén

And when I get a divorce, my wife becomes a vacuum cleaner.

Chris Katko

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Bruce Perry

Isn't Peter Griffin a cartoon character?

Chris Katko

He is?

Eric Johnson

Aren't we all cartoon characters every now and again? :-[

Gideon Weems

I call Goku.

Eric Johnson

Adult Goku or kid Goku? I favor kid Goku, as I enjoy Dragon Ball over Dragon Ball Z.

Aaron Bolyard

In Lua, setmetatable returns the table, so you can do something like this:

t = setmetatable({}, metatable)

Which is less verbose than this:

t = {}
setmetatable(t, metatable)

Similarly, table.remove returns the removed entry, so you can do this:

return table.remove(stack, #stack)

Instead of this:

result = stack[#stack]
table.remove(stack, #stack)
return result

But table.insert doesn't return the inserted entry, which is annoying. So I can't do this:

return table.insert(stack, { foo: 1, bar: "baz" })

Instead, I have to do this:

t = { foo: 1, bar: "baz" }
table.insert(stack, t)
return t

Which seems inconsistent.

bamccaig

I don't think it is. In the former cases the return value was something that you didn't necessary have already. You had a metatable and an index, but not the table and value, respectively. Whereas with the insert, you already have the value that you're inserting.

Would this work:

return table.insert(stack, { foo: 1, bar: "baz" }), stack[#stack]

I think it might. In any case, while it's convenient to have clever shortcuts to things, they often can be difficult to understand at a glance which can result in more bugs. In actuality, splitting things up makes them much easier to understand. And it's not that much more to type. It's also easier to debug or extend.

For example, it's not exactly obvious what 'setmetatable' would return. Why not the metatable? Or maybe the previous metatable? You have to memorize the API to know that it returns the table itself. And if you forget that you could end up with some obscure, misbehaving code that doesn't stand out.

Aaron Bolyard

I don't have a reference to the values because it's passed directly to table.insert without being stored in a local variable prior.

I really don't think the concise examples are any less readable than the verbose ones. It's not like I'm cramming 100 operations in a single line. I've never had problems reading Lua code formatted as such before.

DanielH

Not even spring yet and we hit 93°F today (33.9°C). They also predict his weekend will be warmer.

Eric Johnson

I hope the heat and humidity are low tomorrow. I live in Louisiana and have to drive into Mississippi tomorrow in a car without air conditioning. :(

Bruce Perry

Our weather here in the UK has been very windy. I'm a little windswept, short and stout.

Gideon Weems
My brain said:

I'm a little C pot, short and stdout.

I favor kid Goku, as I enjoy Dragon Ball over Dragon Ball Z.

Interesting, as I mostly hear the opposite. Did you experience Dragon Ball first?

Eric Johnson

Interesting, as I mostly hear the opposite. Did you experience Dragon Ball first?

I don't remember exactly. I saw them both pretty close to one another, so it's all a blur. But I resonated more with Dragon Ball and its quirkiness more so than the action of Z. If I were to go back and re-watch one of them, it'd be Dragon Ball.

Bruce Perry

Gideon, I like your brain :)

BRAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIN

bamccaig

HIS EYES ARE UP... Oh, no, that's right. His eyes are right there. Carry on.

Bruce Perry

bambams \ó/

Gideon Weems
Bruce Perry

What's that from?

And how does your brain strike for this one: i_ò/

jmasterx

You guys were so busy fussing over the 1000th reply, you completely forgot about the 1024th post >:(

bamccaig

McLuserSaus. >:( There's always 1048576.

Gideon Weems
Bruce Perry

It was supposed to be this :)

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Arvidsson

Is it friday?

bamccaig

Probably depends where in the world you are. It is for me (unfortunately). That means I should have been sleeping hours ago, and I should go to sleep now, but I really don't feel like it.

Gideon Weems

It was supposed to be this :)

Argh! I should have taken the challenge more seriously. Bravo.

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How about this one?

Bruce Perry

Embarrassingly, I have no idea - but if I squint, I can see boobies and a Santa Claus beard, so it has my interest piqued :)

Eric Johnson

I don't really see much of anything there. Am I... going blind? 8-) (<- blind guy glasses)

Arvidsson

This certainly feels like a monday.

Bruce Perry

No it doesn't.

Chris Katko
Niunio

A lot of time without a message. It is not good.

GullRaDriel

Is it trying to lock itself ? 8-)

Chris Katko

THE THREAD HAS BECOME INFECTED WITH PROGRANISMS.

IT HAS BECOME SENTIENT.

ALL OTHER THREADS ARE YOURS.

LEAVE THIS THREAD.

ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE.

MiquelFire

I got stuck here, so I don't have to worry about landing. But I can't leave...

Chris Katko

Have you been...SHIP WRECKED, 14 BILLION LIGHTYEARS FROM EARTH?

video

Come to think of it, this predates System Shock 1... by three years.

Johan Halmén

"It would take me light years to finish..."
"Hold on! Now you're using a length unit to measure time!"
"Time, space, what's the difference..."

Chris Katko

I guess I could have posted the gameplay video showing that it's like System Shock 1...

video

Gideon Weems
bamccaig

:D

amarillion

Are we all following the easter hack logs?

Gideon Weems

;D

I am now. I like the art style of Eric's bomb game.

Chris Katko

Neat!

I'm not working on the competition but I am working on my game here and there. Last few days I've been implementing an inventory system with hand-coded mouse support. Click, drag-and-drop, and right-click. Right-click broke somehow recently but I'm not worried about it right now.

I've never written a dialog system / mouse GUI before, so it's interesting to do something different.

Eric Johnson

I am now. I like the art style of Eric's bomb game.

:D I passed off my lack of tangible art skills under the guise of it being a unique "art style" instead. I'm glad it paid off. :P

Just a few more days left now! I'm really hoping to finish by the 15th.

Bruce Perry

Ahhhhh. Nice long Easter weekend. I need it. :)

I looked through the EasterHack screenshots. Yay! <3

Eric Johnson

Happy Easter, everyone! :)

GullRaDriel

Happy Easter Eric ! :D

bamccaig

Happy Easter. I'm sorry it's over. But I got to see most of the people that matter most, and got a good long talk with my mom out of it. :) Alas, now I have to try to get to bed at a decent hour so I can wake up and be rested for work tomorrow. :-/

Onewing

Happy National High Five Day!

Eric Johnson

And a happy "self high five" day to lonely people! :D

Bruce Perry

If you're lonely and you know it, clap your hands?

taron 

High five day coincides with Hitler's birthday?

Eric Johnson

That and it's marijuana day! :o The two together make for a REALLY high five. ;)

bamccaig

:D :D :D :D

Bruce Perry

Marijuana fans - can you find a way to enjoy it without filling the air with it? It's a bugbear of mine (along with cigarettes)...

Today's random tip: pay $22 a year to IMSLP and you get access to Naxos's classical music streaming (desktop and mobile), which is wonderful. My latest discovery on there is Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance. <3

Aaron Bolyard

I made a debugger for my behavior tree library.

I'm proud of it. Was very easy to integrate, since the process method of each behavior tree node is wrapped in coroutine that yields when working, I was trivially able to insert a debug hook and yield until resume without breaking anything. Even nodes that normally don't yield just work.

It also handles remapping line numbers between MoonScript and Lua, which is nice.

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Not the prettiest thing, but it seems to do the job just fine.

But damn, writing the GUI code is the most boring thing I've done in weeks. I hate two types of programming: GUI and web development.

Gideon Weems

I hate two types of programming: GUI and web development.

I share similar sentiments but do have high hopes for nuklear and Pyramid.

Marijuana fans - can you find a way to enjoy it without filling the air with it?

I share similar sentiments but do have high friends.

bamccaig

GUI programming is frustrating because it's so much work for very little results. It's a lot of work to make a bad interface. A good interface is like impractical time investment.

Web programming is similar, but not nearly as bad. The hard part about Web programming is browser compatibility. The key there is doing everything server-side and avoiding JavaScript, which is the main culprit for incompatibility. There are stable and well supported libraries to provide a little bit of client-side convenience without breaking anyone's user experience.

There are definite advantages to Web development. I don't think many of us see it as their dream job, but it's a pretty reliable revenue stream. Most clients won't accept console programs, and GUIs are more expensive than Web is. And GUIs can suffer the same compatibility issues depending on supported platforms.

As for marijuana, I don't particularly hate the smell from a distance. I have a neighbour (or two?) that smoke it, presumably by prescription, and it doesn't really bother me to smell it occasionally. If it was 24/7 it might be different. Certainly it's more offputting when the guy sitting next to you in the office wreaks of it. :( I probably would be more tolerant if they shared! :(

Eric Johnson

I find it interesting to hear people's thoughts of Web development. I got into coding because of Web development, so the Web is my first love, I guess.

Compatibility issues were certainly rampant 10 years ago, but it has much improved these past few years. Especially with browsers that auto-update, compatibility is not as bad as it once was. The top modern browsers all support most of the same technologies. HTML5 is pretty much implemented across the board now, as is CSS3 (with a few subtle exceptions). As for JavaScript, that has gotten a lot better, too. I used to stay away from JavaScript for the most part because it was slow and inconsistent (mostly with IE--damn you, IE!), but it is not bad these days. I actually recently got back into JavaScript, and I really like how it has improved. It is pretty quick these days (though it likely will never be as fast as native code for obvious reasons), and compatibility is pretty good. It is really only with the experimental or newly drafted APIs where you will run into issue. And mobile JavaScript has much improved in the past few years, too. In short, I like JavaScript now.

As for back-end stuff, that is a breeze and really always has been (in my opinion). PHP and MySQL is pretty available virtually everywhere, and the stuff just works. PHP has its flaws, but it gets the job done. I have done a lot of work with PHP and enjoy it. You can even write back-end code in JavaScript now with Node.js. :o

But anyway, I agree with GUI programming. I try my hand at it every now and again, and each time I leave mostly empty-handed and frustrated. As you said, bamccaig, it is a lot of work for very little. Such little return on investment. I prefer CLI anyway, which is one of the things that attracted me to Linux. The command line is often faster, lighter, and more convenient than GUI. However, I prefer browsing the Web and checking my emails in a GUI setting.

bamccaig

However, I prefer browsing the Web and checking my emails in a GUI setting.

The way I look at it is this: if the data involves graphics then a GUI is often desirable, albeit, it can still be a GUI designed for heavy keyboard use. The Web is a good candidate for a GUI. You can browse the Web in text, and good Web sites work fine in text, but graphics heavy sites are useless in text, and most poorly designed sites are too. A GUI just makes things easier in the modern Web.

Email, on the other hand, I actually prefer in text. Most email content is text, at least worthwhile content. Most of the graphics are just tracking beacons, or at best useless noise. Mutt, my preferred client, actually tends to do various things better too. It has better thread grouping than any GUI I've seen, it produces better outputs that are more accessible than most GUI and Web clients, and it supports things like PGP easily. If you haven't used a text client for mail give it a whirl. You might like it. It helps immensely if you have a good text-based text editor too.

Eric Johnson

Does Mutt easily handle sending / downloading attachments? I use attachments quite frequently.

bamccaig

Relatively easily. After you've composed the message in your editor and quit your editor you are returned to Mutt to view the metadata of the message. As I recall, you type 'a' to add an attachment and then have to type in the path. Or you can press '?' or tab to access a sort of text based file manager to browse for one. Mutt has been around for decades and was probably written, patched, used, and maintained by some of the godfathers of the Internet. It likely handles mail standards more correctly than most user agents. :)

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(Note the prompt at the bottom of the first screenshot, that's after typing 'a')

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Append:

Downloading them is relatively easily. I believe you type 'v' to view attached files and then select one as you would expect. If it's plain text or something that Mutt has been configured to know how to open it will just open normally in a view pane of Mutt (or run an external program as configured). Otherwise, you can indeed save it to a file so you can open it externally. I honestly don't deal with many attachments though so I'm not an attachment wizard. :)

Eric Johnson

Interesting. I think I'll give Mutt a try then.

Gideon Weems

If you are serious about trying out mutt, I must warn you that its configuration has been known to take lifetimes.

Regarding attachments: You can also add "Attach: /home/alex/reticulating_splines.wav" to the email header (if edit_headers is set). A file manager key binding for prepending "Attach: " to a path and copying the result to the system clipboard makes this very fast. Now that I think about it, a file manager could even have a binding that automatically places an "Attach: " string in a new email...

Eric Johnson

Thanks for the warning. I'll try it out tomorrow sometime. For now I'll sleep.

Also...

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I got your nose! Now pay up, or you'll never smell again! >:( ;)

bamccaig

With both Mutt and Vim, I suggest you don't spend decades trying to figure out your ideal first config. Instead, Google for some examples and base your rc file on those. Look around for the things you want from a default config, but generally look for a beginner friendly config. Just get using the software and once you're comfortable you can worry about making it work the way you want it to.

Bruce Perry

Eric - apparently, the gesture you posted is the Greek equivalent of a middle finger :)

Gideon Weems

Oh noes!

Eric Johnson

Eric - apparently, the gesture you posted is the Greek equivalent of a middle finger :)

So it means "?!#@ you, I got your nose!" then, right? :D

Eric Johnson

bamccaig is a beautiful person. :-*

bamccaig

Whoa, whoa, take it down a notch. This is no reason to double post!

Eric Johnson

What the...? That's weird. I didn't even think that was possible. :o

I clicked the "Add Reply" button, but it didn't do anything the first time, so I clicked it again. My bad. :-X

Edit: I edited the duplicate post so it's not a duplicate anymore. ;)

bamccaig

:D

It's not supposed to be possible, but obviously the double-post guards aren't perfect.

Eric Johnson

So I tried out Mutt. Its simplicity in use is nice. Though I imagine its mastery is a whole other story. I'm not sure I'll use it as my main mail client though, because attachments seem a bit tedious, and it's just text (I often receive emails with images that I care to see). I'm just not too sure about it just yet.

bamccaig

It's not a club. If it fits your needs use it. :) It does fit my personal needs, but honestly I keep my business needs separate. I mostly use Mutt for free software mailing lists and that sort thing. I gained the knowledge of how to cryptographically sign and encrypt messages, and that in itself is useful, albeit in today's world marginally. And smart mailing list messages are so much nicer that way.

Obviously, the average colleague does not write messages that are consistent with that. I get it. When it comes to replying to company mail I top post because I honestly don't think my colleagues would notice an interleaved message, even if I spelled it out in a heading every goddamn time.

Attachments might be somewhat painful, but I think they always are. As a side note, it's free software so if you can make it better do so. Nobody will complain. You can always submit a patch to the mailing list if you figure out a better way to do it.

Bruce Perry

It is the complementary gesture. A 'bird', upon encountering a 'nose', might be taken by an irresistible desire to hold hands. :)

P.S. I bet Mutt doesn't support drag and drop of attachments ;)

Eric Johnson

A 'bird', upon encountering a 'nose', might be taken by an irresistible desire to hold hands. :)

Hold my hands, friend. >:(

Bruce Perry

Do you need to hold my hand
And have me help you understand,
Or shall I hold up both my hands
And say I did not understand
Your ask which seemed quite out of hand
For me to deign to hold your hand?

(I recently discovered Gilbert and Sullivan)

Chris Katko

My new favorite song!

Quote:

This world of ours is full of choice
But must I choose between only John or Joyce?
Are my options only hard or moist?
My vagina has its own voice
Not vocal cords, a metaphorical voice
Sometimes I do a voice for my vagina
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who does that
'Cause my sex junk is so oh, oh, oh
Much more than either or, or, or
Power bottom or power top
Versatile love may have some butt stuff
It's evolution, ain't nothing new
There's nothing taboo about a sex stew
Just add salt or Gerard Depardieu
French treasure
'Cause my sex junk is so oh, oh, oh
Much more than either or, or, or
If they're alive I'll date 'em
Channing or Jenna Tatum
I'm down for anything
Don't box in my box
Give someone new a handy
Then give yourself props
(Male voice: Oh you think you're so smart, did you learn gay in college?)
Chill with all of that while I drop some knowledge
Sexuality's a spectrum
Everyone is on it
Even you might like it if you sit up on it
Drag queen, drag king, just do what feels right
You're tall pansexual, flirty wood sprite
Who enjoys a fleshlight in the cold moonlight?
(Male voice: With a sad clown Skyping via satellite?)
Damn skippy, home slice,
Sing it with me all night
Sex how you want it, it's your goddamn right
'Cause my sex junk is so oh, oh, oh
Much more than either or, or, or
Get off your soapbox
Get off your soapbox
My sex junk's better than bagels with lox
With lots of schmear

I didn't write that. That's an actual song someone put down on paper and told someone to sing.

Eric Johnson

And they said the "slippery slope" didn't exist! :o

Anyway, I had to search what "schmear" meant...

According to Wordnik:

Quote:

schmear
n. A spread that goes on a bagel
n. A batch of things that go together
n. An aggregate

Bruce Perry

If it wasn't clear, I was genuinely asking if you needed me to explain more clearly or if you had some other meaning with "Hold my hands, friend"...? :)

Eric Johnson

No further explanation needed, thanks. I was just being silly with "Hold my hands, friend" anyway. :P

Bruce Perry

That's a relief :)

I hit the mother lode today - educational, trippy and hot :)

video

Eric Johnson

What a strange, yet mesmerizing, animation style.

Bruce Perry

:)

Incidentally did you know that given only the rules for attraction and repulsion of stationary electric charges, the magnetic forces between moving charges emerge purely as a consequence of relativistic distortion of spacetime, because the relative motion causes the charged particles to appear more or less spread out? It was one of the biggest mind blows I found on YouTube :)

video

bamccaig

Science is hard. Having chosen a field in technology I find it overwhelming to even attempt to learn even the most basic scientific ideas beyond the high school level. Even within technology which is more of a macro level or 12 above the science there's simply too much to possibly ever grasp. It really puts into perspective that as much as we collectively know about the universe, each of us knows a relatively limited set of things, and most things are beyond the grasp of a lifetime. It can be rather philosophical if you let it. And rather frightening if you let it.

Append:

That is, the bit about magnetism above (and the circular reference video that follows, damn it all OP) makes some pretty decent sense, but it's already building on top of ideas that are too complex to explain in the video. And even this bit of knowledge will likely escape from my brain as more pressing issues relevant to today take their spot in relative memory. Ask me to explain magnetism on this scale in a year or 5 and I probably wouldn't have a clue without Googling, and I'd be lucky to find such a digestible source at the time.

Bruce Perry

You know your limitations - that enables you to push against them and achieve more :)

Are you damning Amarillion because I posted a video?

Eric Johnson

"Amarillion" makes me think of "armadillo".

Bruce Perry

Me too - I even had lines in my game Aliens on Fire along these lines:

[You] "Amarillion made me do it!"
[The aliens who speak Japanese because why not {THAT'S RACIST!}] "Arumadiro? ..."

Also, happy 100th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings :) (This is Reply No. 1166.)

Eric Johnson

Pretty sure that'd be アルマジロ (arumajiro). ;)

Don't armadillos carry leprosy? We'd better steer clear of Amarillion then...

Bruce Perry

You can write 'di' as ディ. In the game it was ローマ字 (our letters). It's quite possible I chose to write it as Arumajiro though, I can't remember :)

Eric Johnson

I hate ローマ字 with a burning passion. >:( No joke.

You are correct about 「ディ」 though. But that'd be a really unusual spelling. I think the two "accepted" ones are 「アルマジロ」 and 「アーマジロ」. But it doesn't matter in the end.

Bruce Perry

I looked it up - I wrote it as "Arumadiro".

Also, just looking at what I achieved - I had such awesome braaaaiiin stamina back then. I wish I still had it :) On my boss's advice I bought a book on 'hacking' your physiology to give your brain the best possible chance at being awesome, and it seems to have quite a lot of good things mixed in with a few bits of quack medicine the guy fell for (EZ Water for example). I think what I really paid for was the work involved in pulling together and focusing a lot of good health advice with a focus on brain performance. So, we'll see. The pizza I just ate most of won't have helped though. </self-engrossedness>

Eric Johnson

Let us know how it pans out for you. I'm trying a different approach: hating yourself to the point where you're forced to make a change for the better. "I'll improve, damn it!" :(

Also, what kind of pizza? I had combination pizza this evening. :D

Derezo

Also, just looking at what I achieved - I had such awesome braaaaiiin stamina back then.

I use to look back at my old programming and think, "How did I figure all of this out so easily back then and put it together so quickly, and now it takes me forever to create anything meaningful?".

More recently I finally created a really cool system that generates thousands of web based forms that mimic our desktop application system resources. It impressed everyone at work and I felt like my rate of brain decay was not as bad as I had feared, and I may still be of value. ;)

bamccaig

video

I am now about 3/4 into my 30th year alive. In the last year I've gotten a beer belly which until now I was incapable of getting (I blame that on my finaceé since she makes me eat food daily), and I don't feel as capable when driving. Some of the latter is probably just maturity and knowing more of my limits, but I worry some of it is also losing my touch. I wonder if working from home contributes to that since I drive much less often now. I haven't even gotten my motorcycle out of storage yet. I still feel pretty good about myself as a programmer, but I've also come to terms with certain limitations in my capacity. I guess the future holds whether I bust out of those limitations. In any case, given the peers I work with I still feel pretty good about myself. I just wish I had the missing pieces to make the big bucks.

Bruce Perry

Oh bambams, that video was hilarious - I love the juxtaposition of such chaos with the well-ordered music :)

The pizza was a Goodfella's pepperoni one, bought frozen at the supermarket. There's a cheese one waiting in the freezer for the next time I feel like letting go :)

So, here are some changes I've started making:

  • I generally never ate butter because I never appreciated the taste and bought into the war on fat which is now believed to have been very harmful (allegedly the sugar industry bribed some academics into downplaying its well-known dangers, leading to that war). The guy recommends butter since it contains good fats, so it can't hurt to give it a try. Actually he's more specific - grass-fed butter - but I have some of Lore's butter to finish off first, and I don't know what kind that was.

  • He also recommended putting butter on broccoli, on the grounds that the presence of that fat helps the body to make use of some good nutrients in the broccoli, so I tried that. It was tasty, certainly.

  • I'm limiting my intake of things like milk chocolate and fruit juice. I've bought some spring water and intend to keep that stocked up at all times, since it's more tasty than tap water, and it'll be easier to drink enough water if the water is tasty.

Here are some things I'm not going to do, at least for now (in some cases ever):

  • He claims milk is bad for you - the fat is good but the protein and lactose aren't (which is why he recommends butter, which only has the fat). For the time being, I'm not going to avoid milk and cheese - it would be too much of a shock to the system, and it wouldn't be sustainable.

  • He recommends coffee (only in the morning, and not for the caffeine but for other reasons). When I was a kid, it was made painfully obvious to me that tea, coffee and alcohol are grown-ups' drinks and will not be offered to me. I was happy with that (they didn't seem tempting anyway) and ended up thinking of them as at odds with who I am. The thought of me starting to drink coffee offends me. On the plus side, he does recommend dark chocolate.

  • He says anything grain-fed, or made from grains, is at risk of being mouldy. That more or less rules cereal out entirely and forces you to be paranoid about ingredient lists. He also has all sorts of other claims that force you to be paranoid about ingredient lists. I think it's unsustainable to think that way.

bambams, in your position I'd try and find a way to live without the alcohol, or at least with a lot less. I think it's probably your main self-destructive tendency (the same way sugary binges are mine). Of course, whatever you change, it has to be sustainable - so the challenge isn't to find the willpower not to drink, but rather to find something that just makes you feel so satisfied with things that you no longer want to drink. But I've never been into alcohol (see above) so I honestly don't know what the desire to get drunk feels like, nor what could serve to replace it, nor how good Google would be at answering that question correctly.

Derezo, I have no idea what you do to destroy yourself, but there's probably something :)

I spent some of today playing with Windows Presentation Foundation. Now that's a nice system, at first sight :) I think it's too early to say whether what I'm doing is helping me - my eyes felt a bit tired most of the day, and maybe I'll crash tomorrow. ;)

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

I just wish I had the missing pieces to make the big bucks.

The biggest missing piece tends to be dumb luck.

Bruce Perry

From observing our CEO, I can tell you that's not true. There's a definite mindset and set of skills that leads to success with huge amounts of money, and I also lack those. Luckily he finds me useful for other reasons though :)

bamccaig

I attempted to find a non-explicit image of homosexual-sexual activity to post here implying the reasons, but I failed to find a good one and probably gave Google the wrong impression about me in the process. I hope you're happy. :(

Eric Johnson

Enjoy the targeted ads. ;D

Bump.

You guys like Sokoban? I've been hooked on it the past few days.

Johan Halmén

Sudoku here. It comes and goes.

Chris Katko

Oh my gosh... this thread is still going...

bamccaig

It will be 2 years in September. :D This must be some kind of record for A.cc (moderators would normally have closed it by now!).

Eric Johnson

Who are the mods anyway?

bamccaig

These days I'm not sure there's anyone left other than ML himself.

Eric Johnson

He's not a mod though; he's The Creator. :o

Johan Halmén

Do you believe there's a Matthew Leverton, who has created this site, or has it just evolved from some meaningless junk of bits and bytes?

Edgar Reynaldo

If the source code to allegro.cc ever got leaked, Matthew would have to reabsorb it like Flynn did with Clu in a giant explosion.

GullRaDriel

I believe in THE Matthew Leverton ^^

Chris Katko

I believe Matthew evolved from primordial Progranisms.

Bruce Perry

Serif fonts <3

I installed StyleBot in my Chrome so that I could make sites like Wikipedia and MSDN appear in a serif font. It makes the sites speak to me so much more and brightens my day.

bamccaig

This site always existed. It was simply inaccessible until Matthew discoveredit by reciting the right incantation. It's not fully uncovered of course, as the incantation he has composed isn't perfect, but it seems he has lost interest in discovering the rest. :-[

Serif fonts <3

I installed StyleBot in my Chrome so that I could make sites like Wikipedia and MSDN appear in a serif font. It makes the sites speak to me so much more and brightens my day.

wat

Johan Halmén

So there's at least some kind of intelligent design involved?

Gideon Weems

Everybody with a member number less than 4,000 should be a mod. This is no arbitrary number. Countless studies have shown that the first 4,000 members of any organization or community are its most senior.

From observing our CEO, I can tell you that's not true. There's a definite mindset and set of skills that leads to success with huge amounts of money, and I also lack those.

It sounds like you've found a good leader. You may want to stick with him.

Neil Roy

Everybody knows the flying spaghetti coder created this site.

Eric Johnson

The flying spaghetti coder pays my source code a visit whenever I code. :(

You guys aren't posting often enough. :'(

bamccaig

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Bruce Perry

I just participated in four days of solid rehearsals, morning, afternoon and evening, culminating in a concert. It was the best orchestra I've ever played in, and it was exhausting but wonderful. Shame it was all in German :)

Four days without a post? I have an excuse. What's your excuse? ;)

bamccaig

I posted last, and went out to camp. >:(

Chris Katko

My. God.

Bruce Perry

bambams, presumably you got temporarily evicted by your own 'dishwasher' for posting that? ;)

Katko, your god is the reason you didn't post?

Eric Johnson

Four days without a post? I have an excuse. What's your excuse? ;)

I've been lazy busy working on stuff.

bamccaig

bambams, presumably you got temporarily evicted by your own 'dishwasher' for posting that? ;)

Actually, I think she's the one that found it on Facebook and I asked told her to send it to me! :D >:(

MiquelFire

Sure, told.

Bruce Perry

And then she still sent you camping for it ;D

Polybios

Haha, I totally wondered where the dishwasher was supposed to be and didn't get it until I read your comment, Bruce. :-X

GullRaDriel

Bump. TINS IS COMING ! Ok, not so soon.

8-)

Polybios

Trump withdraws US from Paris climate agreement. He's having a run lately.

Eric Johnson
Polybios said:

Trump withdraws US from Paris climate agreement.

Good.

Polybios

Syria and Nicaragua were not so great last time I checked. :)

Bruce Perry

Eric, what good will come of it?

Trump will be Trump. The big question has to be, is it time to reform some broken voting systems?

Edgar Reynaldo

ROFLMAO - It's not the voting system that's borked, it's the voters.

Eric Johnson

Eric, what good will come of it?

The U.S. will save a few trillion dollars that it would otherwise spend on the Paris deal.

MiquelFire

It's not the voting system that's borked, it's the voters.

Yep.

MiquelFire

It's not the voting system that's borked, it's the voters.

Yep.

bamccaig

The U.S. will save a few trillion dollars that it would otherwise spend on the Paris deal.

1. The US was never going to actually follow through.
2. A few trillion dollars is nothing compared to what it owes, or what it spends on less important things in a year. (But even if they didn't pull out, they wouldn't have actually met their goals, and would have spent a fraction of that trillion dollars you propose)
3. Climate change is a real thing that we're already seeing impact some of our lives, and it's probably only going to get worse.
4. Imagine what your grandchildren will have to look forward to if we do nothing to stabilize it.

Trump is certainly an ignorant fool, but I'm not sure Clinton would have done this any differently so there's that. The voting system is broken, but the voters are broken too. All by design.

GullRaDriel

cavfefe.

Niunio
bamccaig said:

Trump is certainly an ignorant fool, but I'm not sure Clinton would have done this any differently so there's that. The voting system is broken, but the voters are broken too. All by design.

cavfefe

Indeed. :(

Bruce Perry

Mainly I meant that you shouldn't have had to choose between Hillary and Trump.

I also included the UK voting system in my comment, since here you vote via FPTP (problem #1) for a local representative, and then the regions contribute their representatives again via FPTP (problem #2) to create a national government which serves a purpose other than local representation (problem #3).

bamccaig

Canada's system is also based on FPTP. And we are trying to get it changed to proportional representation. The current government naturally promised to do this during the election campaign, but once they got majority power they just decided not to change it. Funny that.

Chris Katko

Anyone play any good games?

- Streets of Rogue is cool but only has a few hours of gameplay yet in alpha. So while it feels like a brand new experience, that experience has limited depth until they add more content.

- I got to the last level of Dune 2, beat GDI campaign in C&C, and am near the last level of the NOD campaign. Gonna hit Red Alert next. I'm going to put together a Game Mechanic History YouTube video using my notes and recordings of the playthroughs.

- Kerbal Space Program. GOT BOUGHT BY TAKE TWO INTERACTIVE which means, enjoy your $4.00 DLC rocket engines. Supposedly the original devs all already quit the team (8 before, and the original creator in 2016) which I didn't know. So all the "new team" (before Take-Two bought it) was just a bunch of "maintainers" instead of the original passionate devs. But lots of that is hearsay. Take-Two is also the owners of GTA which... gave legal take-down notices to multiplayer mod creators for GTA. (Multi-theft Auto). They made a single player game a multiplayer one... so Take-Two performed a takedown. And what other game also has single-player only with a multiplayer mod... oh yeah... Kerbal Space Program.

While I don't follow them much, Microsoft bought Minecraft and it hasn't completely exploded (and they made a C++ rewrite of the game but it doesn't support the same mod API... ugh...). I haven't played in years though so I couldn't tell you from experience whether Microsoft ruined/saved/maintained-the-status-quo.

I think there was another indie game that got bought that was "okay" but I can't remember.

On the other hand... Oculus Rift + Facebook = A dead project with a walled-garden that would make Steve Jobs/Apple go "Holy shit, that's a closed system". (Meanwhile, I keep seeing non-stop innovation of games using the HTC Vive. Too expensive for me, but still.)

---

One thing I'm really surprised at is that OpenRA hasn't been taken down. You don't even have to own the original games to play it! My guess here, is that they're using freely available "demo game" data which is why you need the games to play Aftermath/Counterstrike/etc expansion packs. And they haven't added FMV's yet (IIRC) which would need the original disks.

But you can play campaign maps that were (hand made, but) based on those in the full game... so... where's the legal standard there?

And even if a demo is freely available, that's not a license to use the content however you want. I can't just download the demo of a game, rip the textures out, and use them in my game.

[edit]

Quote:

Since Electronic Arts have released both C&C and RA as freeware, we mirror stripped-down versions of the game's assets separately.

Okay, well that explains why they can do it, but OpenTTD and OpenRTC2 both require an original game installation on the computer.

Eric Johnson

While I don't follow them much, Microsoft bought Minecraft and it hasn't completely exploded (and they made a C++ rewrite of the game but it doesn't support the same mod API... ugh...). I haven't played in years though so I couldn't tell you from experience whether Microsoft ruined/saved/maintained-the-status-quo.

I hopped on the Minecraft bandwagon about a year after its launch, so I had the pleasure of seeing it grow out of beta into a full release and then be purchased by Microsoft. Thankfully, the buy-out hasn't resulted in any negative changes on PC. On consoles, they've been monetizing themed texture and map packs, but aside from that, I can't think of any major changes to the game or the business model.

I haven't heard of it being rewritten in C++ though. Where did you hear that? Knowing Microsoft, I'm surprised they didn't rewrite it in C#.

As for VR, that's a fad--an expensive one. I hope the technology and affordability improves, but it'll take time. Maybe in 10 years it'll be worth checking out.

But anyway, I recently started playing Sonic Generations again. I was a big Sonic fan as a kid, but the series was poorly managed and so quality dipped as a result. I'm just getting back into the games and am surprised to find a few really good ones. Generations in particular is surprisingly good; it has nice graphics and sounds, pays homage to past Sonic games, and has great levels. I'm looking forward to Sonic Forces (which is basically Sonic Generations 2) being as good as Generations.

Chris Katko

I just I just found out about it recently. They either did it for mobile, or for consoles so they wouldn't need the Java runtime anymore. Perhaps it reduced power consumption as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/3c615w/mojang_announces_c_version_of_minecraft_for/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/minecrafts-new-education-edition-written-in-c-will-outrun-the-java-version/

Here's a comparison video (don't have audio right now so I can't confirm it's usefulness):

video

Speaking of Sonic. Get Sonic All Star Racing Transformed. It's worth every penny. It's got a CO OP career mode and there are like... 200 different rounds. There are much less tracks, but still plenty. And then there are game modes on those tracks like normal racing, racing without powerups, racing a ghost, FIGHTING A BOSS by keeping up with it and shooting it enough times while dodging it's shots (Starfox boss meets racing.) It's a SUPER fun game to play every night with your wife or girlfriend. And it's 4-player co-op. You can even GIVE your powerups to other players in co-op mode. So if the leader is doing all the work, and the second player is like 6th place, the second player can give the first his/her powerup to help the leader win.

Eric Johnson

Here's a comparison video (don't have audio right now so I can't confirm it's usefulness):

Interesting video. I did a few quick searches and it seems that the C++ version is essentially just a port of the "Pocket Edition" of the game, so it is missing many of the features from the Java version. Still neat though.

Quote:

Speaking of Sonic. Get Sonic All Star Racing Transformed.

Already got it. 8-) I have both "Sonic and SEGA All Stars Racing" and "Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed". The latter sadly does not have Billy Hatcher as a player. :'(

MiquelFire

I find it funny the comparison video the person's computer can barely run the Java version without it getting noticeably slow.

Gideon Weems

The other day, I found myself perusing the Android development section of my local library. Every book on the shelf had the same Chapter One: "Java." It left the impression that non-Java Android development does not exist.

LennyLen

My cat just farted and it smells real bad. In honour of the occasion, here is a photo of her:

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Gideon Weems

... This thread has reached its peak, folks.

bamccaig

We have a litter box on either end of our apartment, and one of them is against a wall adjacent to where the computer desk is setup. Unfortunately, when we open the patio door which is on the other side of the computer desk, the difference in air pressure draws the odors out of the litter box right across my nose... Takes a few minutes for the pressure to equalize and for the air to stop moving... A cat fart, I cannot imagine, being large enough to consume much of a room.

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It's like when my finacée farts. She thinks it's so bad, but really it's like mildly unpleasant for like 1/2 a second in the immediate spot. I drink a lot of beer and consume negligible water. Apparently the beer can cause bacteria to build up in your intestines, which when combined with newly consumed food stuffs produce a lot of gas. When I fart the room is uninhabitable for like 30 minutes. :'(

Bruce Perry

Switch to water. You'll live longer :)

And no wonder the cat fart smells bad, considering what she's been drinking ;)

Chris Katko

Anyone have experience with rabbits? I bought one for $6 at a flea market... problem is, the damn thing is so afraid of me. I'm the sole thing that's feeding it... you'd think it'd put two and two together that I'm not trying TO EAT IT.

I let it run around the room and it loves it. But it runs away from people. Problem is, I have to keep it from eating cables, and I have to put it away eventually. Well, it freaks the hell out when I have to "catch" it. It practically has a panic attack and the more it fights me holding it, the more scared it gets. I'd wall off this area behind the couch with my LAN cables and getting to that spot became her new all-consuming life's mission. So after like 8+ times of me "fixing" the blocking cardboard/stuff and her finding a way through--like a Raptor never testing the same spot of the fence twice--she's now terrified. Like... if she actually makes it back there, she begins to GET scared (without me even being there!) and starts "thumping" her foot. And thumping, I've read, translates to "you've caused great offense to me." But if I'm not even there, it must mean, I'm worried/upset. It's to the point that if I pick her up and put her in my arms, she immediately gets "sad"/"upset" with her ears going down. Petting her does nothing... she's so afraid the petting must seem like taunting or some other form of aggression.

If I try to put her on top of her cage and keep her from running away (like in a 2x3" spot so I can interact with her), she gets pissed that she can't adventure and--both worryingly, and somewhat comically--has a little temper tantrum. She won't bite me (although we've had a few test nibbles here and there) but she'll bite the crap out of the towel on top of her cage. I thought she was trying to get into the cage but I realized it's really a temper tantrum out of frustration. She'll nibble it angerily, biting it, pulling it out, quickly. And if I give her her food bowel, she tries to pick it up and toss it angerily. (ahah) And if I give her a toy in front of her face, she likewise picks it up and tosses it out of the way and then just stares at me.

At first, I had her cage on a table and would open it and let her climb down onto a lower table and then to the floor. So I realized it be better if her cage was on the floor and she could just go back in if she got scared. Problem is... she doesn't want to. If she gets scared, she'll go to other spots in the house... rarely does she go to her cage. So once again, I'm "the bad guy" who has to put her in her cage.

I have never worked this hard to try and get a stupid pet to realize and accept my affection. "WHY WON'T YOU LET ME LOVE YOU?!" Dogs are a 1000 times better. All you have to do is feed them and give them some affection and they'll literally die to protect you. Even my damn childhood hamsters were smart enough to understand "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." and that climbing on your hand = "sweet ass adventure time."

bamccaig

Well most people that do eat domestic rabbits do feed them first... I think that rabbit has every reason to fear you. :D Rabbits are pretty low on the food chain. You won't get one to NOT run away from potential predators until you completely train the instinct out of it. Every instinct in his brain and body says to run.

Reminds me of my cat though. My cat is very wild. He's the opposite though: predator. He should be afraid of me, but isn't. On the contrary, he's happy to attack me! Consider yourself relatively lucky (as opposed to literally Lucky, my psycho cat).

Cats are stupid. For real. Cat lovers would never admit this, but they're dumb as Hell. I imagine rabbits aren't any better off. There's only so much you can do. Ultimately, you have to accept that you have a bag of rocks for a pet. It operates 90% on instinct and has a limited capacity for learning and training.

Should have got a dog... :(

Chris Katko
Quote:

Should have got a dog... :(

I've got two. And they rule. The older one doesn't need a leash at all and was trained as a service dog for awhile.

Gideon Weems

The older one doesn't need a leash at all and was trained as a service dog for awhile.

Did the older dog help in the younger dog's upbringing by being a good example? I have often wondered to what extent house pets bestow customs to their younger generations.

bamccaig

People are probably more responsible for animal behavior than other animals. After all, many households have a mix of good pets and bad pets. Generally, the truly bad behavior (at least among dogs) can be traced back to the humans. That said, having a cat has made me question whether the same can be said for other pets. Whereas I think dogs can understand you to some extent, and you can train them to behave as you want them to, it seems cats (and I'd imagine rabbits) are incapable of that level of understanding.

Every day with my cat is an "adventure". I close him off in the bedroom when I'm working from home because if I don't he's constantly climbing over my computer and the like. Similarly, if he's getting into trouble repeatedly and exceeds my patience then I isolate him by locking him out on the balcony or in the bedroom. On the flip side, we can leave him home alone all weekend and he doesn't seem to cause any significant chaos. It seems he's mostly only getting into trouble when we're around (but then it seems he sleeps most of the time we're gone so that he's energized to fuck with us when we come back).

All that said, I think that dogs definitely do set an example for other dogs, and can help with controlling and guiding behavior. Ultimately, the people will still have a more significant impact than the other dogs so if the people are encouraging misbehavior there's nothing the other dogs will be able to do to help.

Chris Katko

Did the older dog help in the younger dog's upbringing by being a good example?

Yes. However, you can have another problem which we ran into. Because the second dog was so much younger, she basically "imprinted" on our older dog more than she did us at first. She could understand the dog, so she didn't try as hard to understand us. Where ever the older dog goes, the younger one follows and has to lay next to her. It's cute but also been more difficult to train her. She doesn't "trust" us as much. Whereas the other one, will do anything I tell her because she knows I'm looking out for her. So I can much more easily overcome any fears that pop up through trust. The younger dog, has random things she gets scared of, and it's much harder to "break" her fear of it. Her fear wins out over her trust of us. So clipping her nails is a big ordeal.

She also might have been abused at some point since they found her on the side of the road, and she had patches of fur that were missing. Just feeding her good food brought her fur back within a couple months. Poor doggy.

[edit] !$@!@@!%%@!!%@ I wrote like 3 pages of stuff and due to some internet connection crap I lost it all. Fuck it.

LennyLen
bamccaig said:

It seems he's mostly only getting into trouble when we're around (but then it seems he sleeps most of the time we're gone so that he's energized to fuck with us when we come back).

It's because he can see that you're not paying attention to him. First rule of cat.

edit:

This is where my cat is right now. When I feel her getting restless, I pat her for a minute or so, and she's good to go for another 10-15 minutes.

{"name":"3JPCLSCDimKP5MmRYVRoXXhpLmHJMjvi2JzXzGPSlbmZ3nUCfUMQlwimhxXGK0AkfpgjZZEl4AKqFzWd-ODxeBjH5NAPMLfsVacBPzRKoHmmGSaRycmejrpxYkdbrZrAq5LeaJKQSRxIQ0jJwpMVXaopsZw0jk7MmlBJk06LgzOfEoSUhMmSwIB0zGqSImeTHb0j2SZHJZEm5gM5vr1fSQHqICw3nZd4Bx64Ky49nqmzCMv5WFGaCuncrank69f","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/f\/4f016ba52b16f62567499d354ba5dd2d.jpg","w":1689,"h":950,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/f\/4f016ba52b16f62567499d354ba5dd2d"}3JPCLSCDimKP5MmRYVRoXXhpLmHJMjvi2JzXzGPSlbmZ3nUCfUMQlwimhxXGK0AkfpgjZZEl4AKqFzWd-ODxeBjH5NAPMLfsVacBPzRKoHmmGSaRycmejrpxYkdbrZrAq5LeaJKQSRxIQ0jJwpMVXaopsZw0jk7MmlBJk06LgzOfEoSUhMmSwIB0zGqSImeTHb0j2SZHJZEm5gM5vr1fSQHqICw3nZd4Bx64Ky49nqmzCMv5WFGaCuncrank69f

Gideon Weems

Because the second dog was so much younger, she basically "imprinted" on our older dog more than she did us at first. She could understand the dog, so she didn't try as hard to understand us.

Ahh, that possibility hadn't occurred to me. I guess I figured dogs would automatically place the bulk of their dedication to the hand that feeds them... I understand where she's coming from, though. If I found myself on an alien world with an older human and two, strange lifeforms curating our environment, I'd look toward the other human for guidance.

Bruce Perry

amarillion is your resident rabbit expert :)

amarillion

Ooh yes, I do know a thing or two about rabbits...

Not all rabbits like to be touched by humans. Sometimes, if they are well trained from very young they might get used to it. But it's not a natural state. Being prey animals, they are naturally afraid of bigger animals (unlike cats who take a more indifferent approach to the world around them). They don't see petting as a sign of affection, more like a big predator that is toying with its food (the food being the rabbit).

(edit: if you want to spend the time, you can train them a little bit. Make a pen, and sit in it with the rabbit. Wait, be patient, don't grab it but let it come to you. You might have to try daily for several days but eventually it will get less afraid of you. Be patient. Be the bunny whisperer. You will probably never get to the point that it will like being picked up.)

And yes, chasing a rabbit and trying to grab it is the best way to get it to run away :) When they're afraid they like to seek shelter, in corners, under the couch. Exactly where they are hard to catch. Be patient and lure them with food. And block the most sheltered areas.

And rabbits eat everything. Chairs, cables, skirting boards, plants, wallpaper. Keeping rabbits is rather expensive if you take the cost of new furniture into account.

We own two rabbits for about four years now. They're not really very well trained in being touched and being picked up. They are very good at being cute, so that makes up for it I guess. They are house-trained, they have a 2m x 3m area where they can walk freely, and once in a while we let them roam in the house (but only under supervision, we're trying to keep our current set of furniture).

If our rabbits go where they shouldn't, I find the best way is to distract them. Give them something they are allowed to chew on, cardboard cereal boxes or cardboard wrapping material. Or just some twigs. I once bought rolls of willow twigs, intended as border liners for your garden, from the pound store. Endless bunny fun. The more things they have around that they are allowed to chew on, the less likely they chew on something that is important to you.

Point of interest. The Dutch word for rodent is 'knaagdieren', which translates to 'gnawing animals'.

{"name":"610926","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/f\/1f9758872c1fe0c77f0e8767d90dc94e.jpg","w":1125,"h":2000,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/f\/1f9758872c1fe0c77f0e8767d90dc94e"}610926

Bruce Perry

Here's another bunny wabbit. This one's decidedly less cute though.

video

Eric Johnson

My family used to raise rabbits for food about 10 years ago... A couple of them became pets though, as my mom and sister found them to be cute. :P

Bruce Perry

Almost relevant, with some imagination (skip to 22:30):

video

Aaron Bolyard

I'm ecstatic!

I've been developing a library to construct a minimum-set-of-dependencies to properly reconstruct any OpenGL draw call, or sequence of OpenGL draw calls. In other words, it would be able to execute any OpenGL draw call and create all the dependent resources/state changes that were active at the time.

I tested it on RuneScape. RuneScape renders item icons from models, and then copies them into a the GUI texture atlas. Here's what a cropped portion of the texture atlas looks like:

{"name":"610933","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/9\/59876b141e570a0ec30132b5b5cbebf8.png","w":1024,"h":1024,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/9\/59876b141e570a0ec30132b5b5cbebf8"}610933

(The annotations are the item icons I'm talking about).

Now, it seems my library correctly identified all dependent calls to reconstruct that texture at the end of frame 1900!

Here's an excerpt where it identified some dependent shaders:

frame 1900:
	texture 26:
		call 914: glActiveTexture
		call 1610: glDrawBuffer
		call 1611: glReadBuffer
		call 1964: glShaderSource
		call 1965: glCompileShader
		call 2135: glShaderSource
		call 2136: glCompileShader
		call 2139: glCreateProgram
		call 2144: glBindAttribLocation
		call 2145: glBindAttribLocation

And where it presumably drew an item icon:

call 436528: glBindFramebufferEXT
		call 436529: glClearColor
		call 436530: glClear
		call 436534: glBlendFuncSeparate
		call 436535: glBlendEquationSeparate
		call 436546: glViewport
		call 436550: glDisable
		call 436551: glDisable
		call 436552: glColorMask
		call 436553: glUseProgram
		call 436556: glUniform1f
		call 436559: glUniform1f
		call 436564: glUniform1i
		call 436568: glUniform4fv
		call 436571: glUniform1f
		call 436574: glUniform1f
		call 436577: glUniformMatrix4fv
		call 436579: glDrawRangeElements
		call 436582: glBlendFuncSeparate
		call 436583: glBlendEquationSeparate
		call 436586: glDisable
		call 436587: glDisable
		call 436588: glColorMask
		call 436589: glDisable
		call 436590: glDepthMask
		call 436591: glDepthFunc
		call 436592: glDisable
		call 436620: glUseProgram
		call 436621: glBindVertexArray
		call 436623: glEnableVertexAttribArray
		call 436624: glVertexAttribPointer
		call 436625: glEnableVertexAttribArray
		call 436626: glVertexAttribPointer
		call 436627: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436628: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436629: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436630: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436631: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436632: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436633: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436634: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436635: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436636: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436637: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436638: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436639: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436640: glDisableVertexAttribArray
		call 436641: glBindFramebufferEXT
		call 436645: glUniform4fv
		call 436647: glUniform1i
		call 436649: glUniform1i
		call 436650: glDrawArrays
		call 436655: glUniform4fv
		call 436657: glUniform1i
		call 436659: glBindFramebufferEXT
		call 436663: glUniform1i
		call 436664: glDrawArrays
		call 436669: glDisable
		call 436670: glEnable
		call 436671: glBlendFuncSeparate
		call 436672: glBlendEquationSeparate
		call 436673: glColorMask
		call 436675: glViewport
		call 436677: glCopyImageSubData

In total it took about 2,000 calls that resulted in the texture!

Now I've got to write a program to replay the calls!

Chris Katko

Awesome work!

Gideon Weems

So it's basically like the resource tracker/extractor feature sometimes found in advanced emulators but with anything that uses OpenGL? If so, that is the coolest thing I've heard all week.

Also, now I'm wondering how bunnies express happiness, when they seem to be such worrywarts.

Chris Katko

They twitch, bounce, and bolt around the room!

video

amarillion

Indeed, it's called a Binky, and it's a sign of happiness.

You should try my game Happy Usagi, the point of the game is to make them do a binky :)

Speaking of which, tomorrow I'm presenting this game at the Amsterdam Indie Game Show & Tell Meetup! I'll be pitching TINS and allegro as well.

Gideon Weems

Haha, that's cute (even the name). I'll check out your game.

Good luck with the presentation!

Chris Katko

Is... is 50 the maximum pages and we're just making one long super page?

MiquelFire

50? If you talking about this topic, I'm only on page 13.

Wow, I just noticed I haven't found a quote to replace my Windows 8 quote in my sig...

Johan Halmén

I'm on page 13, too.

LennyLen

While viewed as one page, the source code for this thread is currently at 39425 lines.

Chris Katko

In a thousand years, scholars will read this thread as a transcript of society.

Johan Halmén

The mascot of the Republican party is the Covfefant.

Chris Katko

The mascot of my party is the Wanamingo.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Wanamingo

Rodolfo Lam

I can't believe this post is still active... Talk about irony ;D

Eric Johnson

I want this thread's URL on my epitaph when I die... It'll probably live longer than I will. :P

Elias

I doubt it. Could probably do some statistical analysis on how often it almost died and calculate the expected remaining lifetime from that :)

MiquelFire

I think as long as two people are around to post and keep track of things, it should live for a good while.

bamccaig

It's starting to look like Detroit around here. It's falling apart, there's nobody maintaining it, and most people have left. Those that remain love it, but also have nowhere else to go. :'( :D

Eric Johnson
Elias said:

I doubt it. Could probably do some statistical analysis on how often it almost died and calculate the expected remaining lifetime from that :)

Maybe I'll die today though. :-/

Edgar Reynaldo

I wish this thread would go the way of the dodo like the wm thread in my program. >:(

But really, there's nothing you can do about it. This thread is going to live forever. Until the day allegro.cc closes its doors. Because someone is going to keep posting, like I just did, even though that just means it's going to live even longer. :P

bamccaig

This thread is supposed to live forever. >:(

MiquelFire
bamccaig said:

It's starting to look like Detroit around here. It's falling apart, there's nobody maintaining it, and most people have left. Those that remain love it, but also have nowhere else to go.

Recently Detroit got some new light rail train along Woodward in it's Downtown area. So it's not completely bad yet.

For the Metro area, there was a proposal on some election (maybe the one that caused Trump... meh) and for some reason, people out right rejected expansion of that train system. Had it pass, it would have been able to cover the tri county area that people around here consider as part of Detroit to have a light rail system. But since it was rejected at the polls, the 3 miles that we have now is all we get (and it's been running for less than a month now BTW)

Stuff like this is why you kinda need to own a car around here.

GullRaDriel

I'm tired. A luck the week end is near >:(

Polybios

Well, the thread has lived long enough for today's Brexit referendum anniversary!

Bruce Perry

Boo! :P

Gideon Weems

Not even the dragon balls last forever.

amarillion

How was the indie game show & tell, did you ask? Well, I wrote about it on my blog:

https://blog.helixsoft.nl/121/implicit-tutorials-notes-from-indie-game-show-tell/

bamccaig

I've been helping a friend move for the past couple of weeks... Slowly move. Every few days my feet are killing me and once in a blue moon my whole body aches... Should be almost over. Our last day of helping should be tomorrow anyway.

MiquelFire

I was so out of it, I thought yesterday was today, and took out my trash can. Brought it back in so it wouldn't be sitting out all day. Hopefully I'll remember to take it out tonight.

Elias

If we leave trash out racoons (or groundhogs or opossums, all three of those are plenty in Columbus and I have a hard time telling them apart) will tear it up and distribute all over the yard :/

MiquelFire

I have a can, so they can't get to it.

bamccaig

Around here it would be more likely to be a black bear. >:(

Eric Johnson

So I recently visited my grandmother in California. While I was there, I wanted to eat at my favorite Mongolian BBQ joint, but it was out of business. :( That's what you get for being gone for four years, I guess... But I found another Mongolian BBQ place that was pretty good. Not as good as the other, but still good. ;D

MiquelFire

There's a place here that sells really good ribs, but for whatever reason, it was bought out, and is now closed. At some point (since I didn't know about this) I thought it may have been closed for remodeling, and when I asked my dad about, he told me about it being bought out.

As far a remodeling, the Taco Bell near my house, however they did it freaked me out, because it took a week or two to tear it down, but it seems as though it took one night to build back up.

Bruce Perry

Perhaps the old one had asbestos in it and they had to use special procedures to keep its dust out of the air?

Elias said 'yard' - he is officially an American now :'(

[EDIT]
So, how about the incident at VidCon then ;D

Arvidsson

Yes can we please discuss feminism a bit?

Bruce Perry

We don't have to - but we need to talk about something :)

bamccaig

This is the first I've heard of [the incident(s) at] VidCon. :o I am in the process of trying to find unbiased accounts (what I've read so far looks bad for Anita, and also VidCon organizers and the media for backing her up in this matter; and that's even by reading supportive media...). I imagine sooner or later I'll come across the videos of the opposing side, but I seem to already know what happened. It sounds like she attacked them and somehow cried harassment, simply because her critics had the audacity to show up in the front rows of one of her talks. And somehow the media and organizers took her side.

Chris Katko

It doesn't just SEEM like she did. She did. It's on video.

- Sargon sits in audience because he's interested in what his opponents think.

- A DIFFERENT PERSON asks a question for the panel, "Do you actually believe all the things you say?"

- Anita snaps and calls Sargon (a person in the audience) "human garbage" and a "shithead"

- Vidcon rules clearly dictate Anita violated their policy against harassment and intimidation. She had a microphone. He didn't. He couldn't even defend himself.

- Vidcon was going to reprimand her. Then "people" told them that there is "history" and she was merely "Defending herself against a history of harassment."

- Vidcon reverses and will not ban her from the conference.

- 99% of YouTubers (the audience) can clearly see how there is a "rules for you, none for me." when you have institutional power. That is, someone powerful wants you to be given special treatment.

Gideon Weems

"VidCon" sounds so much cooler than it really is.

Amarillion's article has a good point about dumbing down gameplay mechanic introduction--like if a blue power-up yields 1 point but a red yields 2, how do you tell the player? This is a simplified example, but it's not hard to imagine even slightly more complicated mechanics going over the heads of most people. If I were to add something to the discussion, I would say not to worry too much--because at the end of the day, all that matters is whether or not players have fun, not whether or not they understand what's going on. (Besides, the latter comes with time regardless.)

Eric Johnson

all that matters is whether or not players have fun, not whether or not they understand what's going on.

I agree with this statement, though I would argue that making sure the player knows what's going on from the start can help avoid confusion down the line, especially if the confusion is related to a game's story.

amarillion

I think 'implicit tutorials' are a neat concept, but they can be overdone.

I think part of the problem is that 'implicit tutorials' is one of the few concepts in game design that are clearly understandable and not subjective. It's something that can be explained to beginning game designers, and they go 'Wow, this is really neat, I can do that too'. And they learn about how Miyamoto, the greatest game designer alive, used this in Super Mario Bros, World 1-1. And now suddenly game design becomes all about implicit tutorials. Like there is nothing else! Of course there are other things, but they are much vaguer, much harder to explain and more subjective.

In my article I highlight the problem with Usagi, where a certain mechanic is not easy to figure out. But you know what: in play testing, players were clearly having fun, whether they understood it or not. So yes, I could explain better. But it's not the end of the world either.

Eric Johnson

Miyamoto, the greatest game designer alive

I wouldn't go that far. He's the one who fucked up the Paper Mario series, after all. >:(

Edit
I like his work on the Pikmin series. 8-) I'm just a bit salty about his involvement in Paper Mario and the direction the series has taken in recent years. :-/

MiquelFire

Wasn't Portal basically a tutorial? At least the first half of it.

Edgar Reynaldo

Nobody reads manuals anymore because nobody writes manuals anymore... :/

Chris Katko

I miss amazing manuals like MechWarrior 2 and Fallout 1/2.

Edgar Reynaldo

Who wants to read a stinking PDF with bad links anyway?

Bruce Perry

the greatest game designer alive

At the moment, probably Jonathan Blow?

Chris Katko

Warren Specter (System Shock 1, and Deux Ex) and Tim Caine (Fallout) aren't dead yet. So I have no idea how one can claim greatest developer titles.

Peter Molyneux (if only he'd get his head out of the clouds and FINISH a game...)

I'm sure I could think of more if pressed. Obviously, Miyamoto has got to be one of the top ones of all time. But I would be hard pressed to "rank" them with respect to each other--as opposed to merely listing them.

On a somewhat related note (since these people are all [wo]men of great vision and creativity) I know people say "ideas are dime a dozen, the only difference is the effort people put into making those ideas a reality." But I think that might be bullcrap. "Good ideas" are dime a dozen. GREAT IDEAS are super rare and worth paying for and patenting. That's the reason we have patients and that's the reason Hollywood pays out-the-butt to buy scripts and IP rights to successful books. If they could generate talent and great IP's "in-house" they would.

Bruce Perry

You would be a patient too if you were paying out-the-butt :)

Eric Johnson

Have any of you bought anything good from Steam's summer sale? I just picked up Cave Story+, a fun action platformer. I played the game on Wii last year and liked it a lot. I expect I'll like it even more now on PC.

By the way, I'm giving away a bunch of Steam keys to games I don't want. I made a thread about it here.

Chris Katko

I bought tons of GOG games during Summer sale. Steam? Literally nothing this sale. Nothing I saw was really that cheap or interesting.

I did get gifted Player Unknown's Battlegrounds and it's hard as !@$!@$@! but super fun. Like, we play it every day.

Eric Johnson

Which games did you get on GOG during the sale? And that's a battle royale multiplayer kind of game, right? Does it not feel repetitive after a while?

bamccaig

Player Unknown's Battlegrounds is a survival horror or something that plays out like molasses. I watched a guy playing it on Twitch a while back wondering what it was, and was wondering when the action would happen. I watched for like 40 minutes or an hour and literally nothing happened. I don't have that kind of time, but for people that do I'm sure it's fun.

I personally have not found any games on sale on Steam that are cheap enough for me to invest lately. I try to only buy the ones that I know I'll actually play. I haven't seen any really cheap ones, and the few that I wanted were too expensive.

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

I try to only buy the ones that I know I'll actually play.

I feel that. There are literally dozens of games sitting in my library that I got from bundles that have never been touched. I recently went through my library deciding which games to keep and which ones to toss. In total, I permanently removed 29 games and some DLC.

Here's most of what got axed:

  • Switch Galaxy Ultra

  • Vangers

  • Arcade Game Series: Pac-Man

  • Arcade Game Series: Dig Dug

  • Arcade Game Series: Galaga

  • OutDrive

  • Savage Lands

  • ACE COMBAT™ ASSAULT HORIZON Enhanced Edition

  • Tropico 4

  • X-COM: UFO Defense

  • Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade

  • Super Hexagon

  • Duke Nukem Forever

  • Super Meat Boy

  • Tharsis

  • BioShock

  • BioShock Remastered

  • Life is Strange

  • Monster Truck Destruction

  • Starpoint Gemini 2

  • Space Engineers

  • DiRT Showdown

  • Saints Row 2

  • PAYDAY 2

  • Attractio

  • Depression Quest

  • Unturned

  • LIMBO

While most were cut because they simply didn't interest me, some did so because they were genuinely bad. Regardless, I feel better now that I've cleaned up my library a bit. :P

Edit
In addition to Cave Story, I also picked up Kero Blaster. It's made by the same guy, so I'm sure it'll be fun. ;D

bamccaig

How did you remove them? The best I can find is how to hide them.

Eric Johnson

You can remove a game from within the "Support" area.

Support > Games, Software, etc. > "Some Game" > I want to permanently remove this game from my account > Ok, remove the listed games from my account permanently

It's permanent though, so be careful.

Edit
If you try to remove games you got in a package/bundle, Steam may have you remove everything from said package/bundle instead of the individual item, which sucks. Like I wanted to remove Sonic CD (I like classic Sonic, but Sonic CD has piss poor level design, IMO), but Steam said I could only do that if I also got rid of 4 other games that I bought together. Guess I'll hang onto Sonic CD for now... :-/

Bump
So who do you think will be the first human to be tossed into the sun?

Onewing

So who do you think will be the first human to be tossed into the sun?

Elon Musk. His advancements in technology will be used against him when the growing right-wing conservatives catch wind of his doings.

Chris Katko

I can't tell if that's a troll or serious post. :o

Bruce Perry

Yay Chris! You got reply number 1300 :)

Eric Johnson
Onewing said:

Elon Musk. His advancements in technology will be used against him when the growing right-wing conservatives catch wind of his doings.

Not sure about that last part, but it makes sense that Elon Musk would be the first to be tossed into the sun. Too bad he'll burn up well before he gets there though. Humankind may never truly step foot on the sun. :-/

bamccaig

I'm not sure it makes sense to "step foot on extremely hot gases". :-/ You can't step on what won't hold weight. Even if a solid substance could somehow withstand the heat it would pass right through the "surface" of the Sun drawn by the gravity at the core (or so we can speculate).

Eric Johnson

That settles it: we need to turn the sun into a solid by freezing it.

Neil Roy

Thought I should post something in here so... here's my post...

{"name":"610963","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/2\/027522384630d2525c48827f12486e3f.jpg","w":1600,"h":1066,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/2\/027522384630d2525c48827f12486e3f"}610963

Eric Johnson

That's a nice-looking post! :o

MiquelFire

Very nice post.

Neil Roy

This is a long thread...

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Eric Johnson

I'm genuinely curious to see how many more puns you can make. :P

Neil Roy
Quote:

I genuinely curious to see how many more puns you can make. :P

Now that you have said that I am stuck for new ideas. :-/

But I did find a great image of a real life end boss fight that made me laugh out loud! ;D

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Eric Johnson

Sorry for ruining your pun streak. :( That's a pretty cool image. :o

Edit
So Neil, I'm curious: do you ever worry about receiving a cease and desist order on your Deluxe Pacman games?

Neil Roy

So Neil, I'm curious: do you ever worry about receiving a cease and desist order on your Deluxe Pacman games?

Nope! Edgar Vigdal (may he Rest in peace :'( ) had no problems. And I had no problems since I started with the PC versions in the 1990s.

I'm actually a little surprised Edgar didn't get any legal problems as the name of his game was a little sketchy... his was "Deluxe Pac-Man" for the Amiga, mine has always been "Deluxe Pacman". There is a difference. Namco registered "Pac-Man" with the dash. They never registered "Pacman", in fact, there is a hat maker in South Korea named "Pacman". So, yeah, I checked. :) I don't use anything of theirs. My Pacman character looks different than theirs if you look closely (mine has eyes, their original one did not). My ghosts are different, they have noses and the animation is different. My level layout is totally different than theirs and I have multiple levels, the original only ever had one. Moving a man through a maze is not exactly an original idea. But... if push came to shove, I would just rename it or stop making it all together (not that I work on it much anymore anyhow)... or I would fight them over it as I am not exactly a pushover, I am known for putting up a fight and pushing back when it comes to my rights. :)

I also feel all the clones is what has kept the game alive. Probably helps with sales on console versions I would imagine <shrug>.

I do have a huge number of downloads of my Deluxe Pacman 1 game. It even surprised me. We're talking in the millions worldwide... if only I had $1 for each download <sigh>. Mainly Spanish speaking nations it seems and a lot of the nations in South America, so there's a market for games like that there. If I knew their language I would be tempted to add it to the game.

I even had a download of it in Saudi Arabia and in some nation next to Libya (I forget the name) which surprised me.

Eric Johnson

It's good to hear you haven't had any legal problems. :) What are the differences between Deluxe Pacman 1 and 2, and how long has 2 been out compared to 1?

Edit
By the way, I just fired up Deluxe Pacman 2 on my laptop and I think I've encountered a bug. If I go into options and enable suicide speed, play a round, return to the main menu and uncheck suicide speed and play again, suicide speed is still applied to the game. Only after exiting and executing the program again does suicide speed go away.

Neil Roy

By the way, I just fired up Deluxe Pacman 2 on my laptop and I think I've encountered a bug. If I go into options and enable suicide speed, play a round, return to the main menu and uncheck suicide speed and play again, suicide speed is still applied to the game. Only after exiting and executing the program again does suicide speed go away.

Okay, you're no longer allowed to play it. ;)

I never play in that mode as it was requested by someone so that would explain how I never caught it. I'll check that, then curse you for making me work on it again! ;)

As for the age difference... I started DP1 in the 1990s, I think around 1996 for DOS and upgraded it as time went by. Originally it was 320x200 I think, something like that with VGA graphics and I think Allegro 2? Been a while. Eventually I moved it to Windows and 800x600. Around 2009 I started to think about a new version with new features, new graphics, new resolution and slightly larger level layout with custom start positions etc... etc... I thought about it a while, made some designs and then shelved it until around 2012 when I started work on it again with Allegro 5. I basically was learning Allegro 5 while I programmed it, so that was a task. I think it was 2015 when I finally released a demo of it and then the full version.

There's a programming journal that comes with it. There's one with both games where I have log entries when I worked on it, some of my frustrations etc... it's actually VERY lengthy, if you're curious. Both games have one installed and can be accessed from the start menu folder (or in the game install folder itself). Both also have a level editor with them.

Oh, what DP2 has that DP1 does not, DP2 has an energy bar you can use for temporary speed, you gain energy as you eat (see HELP menu), press CTRL to use it. DP2 can change from fullscreen to window on the fly thanks to Allegro 5, DP1 you have to restart. DP2 you can set the ghost start positions, it has teleports, the levels are slightly larger, has new graphics etc...

Eric Johnson

Thanks for the history lesson. :) I find it incredible that your project has been around for nearly as long as I've been alive (I was born in 1995). :o Sorry to make you work on your game again. I've got a few bucks I can spare, so maybe I'll make a donation to boost your bug-squashing prowess. ;)

Neil Roy said:

There's a programming journal that comes with it.

Just saw it... whoa--it's pretty long! I often enjoy reading the development logs featured in various game jams, so I'm sure I'll get a kick out of reading your journal entries all the same.

I'll have to check out all that DP2 has to offer. So far I've enjoyed playing a few of the levels. You've done a really good job with it. I especially like how smooth everything feels. Keep up the good work! ;D

bamccaig

As a side note, I just tried DP2 in Wine on Ubuntu and it worked pretty much flawlessly. I think there might have been a bit of a skew to some of the fonts/text on the score board, but that was about it. I only played one level, mind you. You may want to test this for yourself and document it on your Web site.

Neil Roy

Never tried it on Linux, though I did allow someone to compile it for Linus years ago. I should make an effort to port it. Shouldn't be difficult. I may add a note about that though, thanks.

The last DOS version I compiled for DP1 is on my website. I managed to get it to run on my tablet with DOSBOX which was kind of kewl, though really clunky.

Edit: Just tested the suicide speed problem and that is indeed a bug. Strange.

Eric Johnson

I'm also playing it on Linux (Ubuntu) using Wine, and it runs flawlessly as far as I can tell.

Neil Roy

I just fixed that suicide bug now and will upload a new version in a while. I'll probably create 10 more levels for the game first as is my new custom.

There is a level editor with the game as well, it's super easy to use, just click and drag your mouse to "draw" lines. You can also create your own custom line sets and even insert a small image at the start of your level with whatever you want on it (someone requested these things).

Edit: I uploaded a new version with that bug fixed and 45 levels instead of 40.

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Edit: I uploaded a new version with that bug fixed and 45 levels instead of 40.

I tested it just now and sure enough, the bug's no more! I don't know if it's gone through yet, but I sent a few bucks your way for your efforts. Thanks for fixing it! ;D

Neil Roy

Thanks for that. Though it wasn't necessary, I always fix bugs as soon as they are reported. :)

Edit: Updated the credits screen with your name in it (uploaded it, same version).

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Thanks for that. Though it wasn't necessary, I always fix bugs as soon as they are reported. :)

Necessary or not, you're good for it. :) I got my high score up to 1.5 million today. Is there an all-time high score that you know of?

Neil Roy

Necessary or not, you're good for it. :) I got my high score up to 1.5 million today. Is there an all-time high score that you know of?

Not really, unless you count the... I think 8 million my wife got one time, but that was before I nerfed the bonus points on DP1 anyhow. Your score sounds pretty amazing. I'm not sure I have gotten that high. But then I have rarely tried. I tend to suck at my own games. :)

Eric Johnson

So I just spent 53 minutes recording my play session only to discover that I had my recording software configured incorrectly. :-/ Oh well, I got a new high score either way: 3,393,200! :D

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Neil Roy said:

I think 8 million my wife got one time

That's pretty high. I'll try to beat that. :P

Edit
Anyone want some more Steam keys?
7 Grand Steps: What Ancients Begat -> 0EQ0Q-6MXZR-JIJMQ
AI War: Fleet Command -> 6BNPT-9J2GF-80LZ7
Ellipsis -> R8RWF-JYI93-WJT3Q

Neil Roy

Edit
Anyone want some more Steam keys?
7 Grand Steps: What Ancients Begat -> 0EQ0Q-6MXZR-JIJMQ
AI War: Fleet Command -> 6BNPT-9J2GF-80LZ7
Ellipsis -> R8RWF-JYI93-WJT3Q

They are all taken. :-[

Chris Katko

So I just spent 53 minutes recording my play session only to discover that I had my recording software configured incorrectly.

As someone who's started recording gaming. I FEEL YOUR PAIN. So many times I found out the stream setting was wrong, or the SSD filled up, or the volume of the game OR my mic wasn't balanced. Or the recording software wasn't recording the video or audio correctly and I'm stuck with a black screen with audio for my whole speedrun.

I've adapted to mostly eliminate those. One of the best things is having OBS run on a separate monitor so you can always watch the status.

[edit]

PUB freakin' rules:

video

Eric Johnson
Quote:

They are all taken. :-[

Better luck next time. I cross-posted the keys on Twitter, so no surprise they went quickly.

@Chris: What are you using to record with?

Chris Katko

Open Broadcaster Software

I play in 4K but my computer can only record at 1080p without killing my frames. Also, I have to play in low detail mode. But the 4K means I get WAY better view at distances.

Neil Roy

NVidia's new share program works well for recording videos and game play. Has an option to display your image in a smaller insert etc. If you have the drivers installed on Windows, just press ALT+Z.

Eric Johnson

Open Broadcaster Software

I'll have to check that out. Also, how does PUBG compare to other battle royale-themed games? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I've seen a few others on Steam.

Neil Roy said:

NVidia's new share program works well for recording videos and game play.

Yeah, I recorded some footage of emulating GameCube games with Dolphin using that, and it worked surprisingly well (no dropped frames or anything bad that I could tell).

bamccaig

PUBG does look good, but for $40 and Windows-only I think I'll just add it to my wishlist and keep an eye on the price. I've also been screwed a few times by "Alpha" sales where when the real game comes out I suddenly have to pay again. Not sure if that happens on Steam, but it's fucking crooked.

I'm also worried that without having a good mic and being very sociable that it'll be a very lonely, boring, and hopeless match. Most of the fun seems to be panicking with and/or berating/praising friends. Not sure how much text chat is used in game (if even possible).

Chris Katko

It's $30, not 40. The devs said there are no plans for sales, especially since they've already sold over 2 million copies. It's already the #1 most popular game selling game on Steam and #2-#3 in concurrent players.

No text chat. We use our own voice chat on Discord, but PUB does have voice built-in.

There's a lot of panic in the game. The guy who made it has been perfecting the idea for awhile and this is his 3rd game doing it.

100 people. Start in a plane. Plane has a random line direction over the map. You jump out and parachute (as 100 other people do!), but first pick the best possible location. Do you want to get great loot? Then you'll have to fight tons of other people early on. Alternatively, you can try and get far away from the plane and loot the scraps so you can get a reasonable weapon loadout.

Every few minutes a circle of blue wall closes in. If you're outside wall, you get hurt. The more times the circle shrunk, the harder it hurts. You can med up and survive the first one or two. But if you don't get ahead of it, you'll soon play a losing match of "run away from the wall."

Vehicles are great for moving fast. But they're LOUD AS HELL in a game where half the battle is knowing when NOT to shoot. You DON'T want everyone to know where you are. Some vehicles carry only 2 people, some 4. Some are slower. Some have 4-wheel drive and provide varying levels of bullet protection.

You can take a vehicle and go only to the next circle end. Or, you can head to the center.

Once the blue wall finishes shrinking to the next iteration to the next "white circle" on the map, a ticker starts again (2 mins, then 1 mins, then 45 seconds, etc) a new "white circle" (where the new safe zone is) pops up, and the blue wall will begin shrinking again.

So there's all kinds of strategy "Do I vehicle it? If I can even find a vehicle..." verses proning slowly across fields, or crouch running along the hill line and then cutting down through some cover.

Each match lasts less than 20 minutes max, and if you die you can immediately start a new one (which takes 2-3 minutes to load). And the game... it's stressful and intense almost the entire way. You don't have any time to take your headphones off (<--really recommended! Sound is very important for spotting bullet directions and hearing footsteps.) to take a phone call or let the dogs out.

The likelyhood of winning is almost zero. I've won less than 5 matches in >50 hours. But it's not about "winning." A win, being the last person alive (or last duo or squad of 4 alive), is like winning the lottery. Just getting to the last 10 people alive is a huge achievement. So it's not so much about "winning" but about getting better and further than before.

I strongly recommend playing with friends though. Without that, the game would feel like such a painful slog that most people will become discouraged and frustrated. Playing solo is fun at times, but playing with friends is where it's at in this game. Otherwise, you play 10 minutes, let your guard down for a split second, turn a corner and find someone shotgun you to the face and your round is over.

Weapons are balanced well too. It's always a cost-benefit risk to "scavenging enough stuff" before the blue wall comes, AND, "what if I encounter enemies in that block of buildings and die?" But even the crappiest weapons are still enough to kill most end-game people if you're careful enough.

Go and check the (few) NEGATIVE reviews on Steam. They all still say "Great game. Except X."

MiquelFire

Normally alpha purchases on Steam doesn't mean having to pay again. With Steam, it's more like pre-ordering a game, but you get alpha/beta access until the game is complete.

bamccaig

Well fuck it, I decided to buy it since I happen to have a surprise "vacation" day today. I can't even play it on my desktop (not only because of Linux, but also because of graphics). However, I have my work laptop often enough and it should be able to handle it, at least on low settings... In 20 minutes I can give it a try and see if I wasted CAD$37.

Neil Roy

Chris; I watched some of video, the one person sounded like a girl almost when that grenade came in! ;D

bamccaig

It's fun, but yeah, it's hard to manage time and resources without getting left behind. You either die because you're closed out of the play area, or you die because you walked into a trap trying to stay in it. I did manage about 3 kills this last game, but still died at like 39/95.

Append:

Made it to 7/95 this time! Only one kill. Finally I got killed by a sniper watching the tight circle I was trying to get to...

Neil Roy

I watched a video of someone playing that game where they got #1. They only did like, 5 kills. They only won because they stayed away from people and didn't fight until they had to, by which time there were only a few left. I think that sort of play style will grow old really fast. I know I would get annoyed if I was consistently getting high kill counts but losing out to people who run and hide then snipe you at the last moment.

bamccaig

I don't think anybody gets high kill counts. It just isn't that kind of game. It seems to actually simulate bullet drop so even just shooting is non-trivial unless you're standing right next to the guy. Even then, it's harder than you may think to hit him before he hits you! It really is that kind of game: avoid confrontations until you have to. That's still no guarantee of success though. It probably helps a lot if you have friends. If you're playing solo like I am then you're guaranteed to be forced into a tiny circle with about 10-20 guys that want to kill you to survive themselves. Good luck.

The most frustrating part is that for some reason my gun often goes off accidentally. I don't know if that's part of the game, or I'm hitting a key combination by mistake, but it's incredibly frustrating. You're trying to be stealthy, and all of the sudden KAPOW! A big ass rifle goes off. I wonder where you are. ;) It just got me killed at position 16 because I was approaching a tight circle near the end of the game and my rifle went off. A guy must have been nearby and killed me when he heard my shot. :(

I really wish that you could spectate after you die though. You've invested so much in this game. It would be nice to see how it ends (what happens to the asshole that shot you).

Append:

I guess Neil got post number 1337! Congrats! Technically I guess I did if you count the OP.

Neil Roy
bamccaig said:

You're trying to be stealthy, and all of the KAPOW!

This made me L.O.L. I could almost picture it. ;D

Eric Johnson

Do any of you know where the bitmap font used in al_create_builtin_font originates? Did one of the devs custom make it, or was is it from a font somewhere in the wild? I'd love to have it in as a TTF file.

Edit
If it doesn't exist in TTF form, I can make one.

Edit Edit
I turned it into a TTF file using fontstruct.com. I've attached it to this post if anyone wants it.

MiquelFire

@bam

I think if you're part of a squad, you can spectate your teammates when you died at least.

Neil Roy

Do any of you know where the bitmap font used in al_create_builtin_font originates? Did one of the devs custom make it, or was is it from a font somewhere in the wild? I'd love to have it in as a TTF file.

I'm pretty sure that is built in. I remember the conversation many moons ago about putting one in.

Edit:

Quote:

I turned it into a TTF file using fontstruct.com [fontstruct.com]. I've attached it to this post if anyone wants it.

Thanks, grabbed it. It would make a nice console font for input. There are freefonts out there too in TTF format that are royalty free, no legal ramifications attached to using them. http://www.fontspace.com/gnu-freefont

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

I'm pretty sure that is built in. I remember the conversation many moons ago about putting one in.

I know it's built in, but where did it come from originally? Was it copied from a pre-existing font, or was it custom-made for Allegro?

Thanks for the link to free fonts. I wanted the built-in one in particular because I'm porting my TINS 2016 game to JavaScript and needed a TTF version of the built-in font.

Neil Roy

If it is built in, you can guarantee it is totally free.

Eric Johnson

If it has the Neil Roy guarantee on it, then it must be true. ;D

Chris Katko
bamccaig said:

I really wish that you could spectate after you die though. You've invested so much in this game. It would be nice to see how it ends (what happens to the that shot you).

You can spectate in team matches. I would love a kill cam so you can tell the last 5 seconds that led up to your death so you learn from your mistake.

Elias

https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/608325/930902#target

IBM's CGA graphics card released in 1981 came with this exact font hard-coded into its ROM - so I would guess IBM owns the copyright.

Chris Katko

There are tons of lookalike BIOS fonts that are FOSS. Just google for them if you need them.

bamccaig

Wait, does that mean Allegro is violating copyright law? :-/

Neil Roy

I am pretty certain the built in font was created from scratch. If it looks similar it is because it is the English language which nobody, not even IBM, owns a copyright on.

I doubt very much this was copied from anywhere.

bamccaig

I played a little bit too much last night I think. When I was trying to squeeze in 6 or so hours of sleep before work this morning I could see the game playing out in my imagination not by choice. You always know you "overdid" it when that happens.

Elias

I'm pretty sure Shawn mentions somewhere he copied the font from his PC's BIOS. It also is pixel-by-pixel identical so is very likely to be the case. (According to the post above, I did not double check).

However a quick Google reveals that in the US typefaces like this were not copyrightable so it is unlikely IBM obtained one. Their actual font "Courier" for example was never copyrighted. The 8x8 BIOS font might have been auto-created by someone simply scaling down a font like that and touching up afterwards... probably was a job of half an hour :P

Neil Roy

Personally, I tire of worrying about copyrights. I just do what I wish for the most part. If someone wants to sue me, go for it. Can't get blood out of a stone. :)

Eric Johnson

Today I rewrote my TINS 2016 entry in JavaScript to be playable on the Web. It's a near one-to-one remake, but with a few small tweaks and additions.

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You can play it in your browser here. I also wrote a small blog post about it here.

I plan on rewriting all of my games in JavaScript soon. I like the convenience of the Web. :)

Edit
Forgot to mention that the code and assets are all freely available on GitHub. ;)

Neil Roy

How do you like Javascript? I looked into it and was intrigued but I don't know if I have the enthusiasm to remake anything of mine with it.

Eric Johnson

JavaScript is currently my favorite language. I enjoy how flexible it is to write programs with it, and I like the convenience of being able to very easily share my creations with others (as opposed to making binaries of programs in other languages). It has its limitations though, primarily in speed. It can't match the speeds of C and the likes, but that's to be expected from an interpreted language. Still, it's pretty fast, and it continues to get faster with time.

As far as writing games in JavaScript goes, it's not difficult, but it is a little different. I'm using the canvas API, but I've abstracted it with my own little game-making library called "Momo". It's only for 2D stuff though. For 3D you'd have to look into WebGL.

Chris Katko

bam (and anyone else): PM me for my steam id / discord if you want to play with us.

Personally, I've been loving the D language. It's C++ but refactored from the ground up to focus on productivity. The compile time function evaluation and meta programming is worlds of power and simplicity. All the "flaws" of D are slowly but surely dealt with--including the "evil" garbage collection which they're working out of the language for those who don't want it in the stdlib.

Javascript's "everything is a float" is very scary. O_O But I do love being able to hit refresh in a browser and just magically see your new code. And since it's JS, everyone is "Already online".

Eric Johnson

Javascript's "everything is a float" is very scary.

Yeah, that's screwed me up a few times. You can treat a number as an int using parseInt() though. But despite its flaws, what I love most about JavaScript is that changes are immediately available upon refreshing the page. It's just so convenient.

Quote:

Personally, I've been loving the D language.

I'll have to check it out. I've heard a few people rave about it, after all.

bamccaig

As a side note, if you use the bitwise-or (`|`) operator in JavaScript the runtime will convert your operands to integers since it only works on integers. If you bitwise-or a variable with 0 you will get the variable as a native integer (i.e., any decimal part will be truncated, non-numbers will be zero). That is part of the asm.js spec IIRC to define an integer number, but I'm not overly up on how it affects performance.

In any case, once you learn how to process your types dynamically it really isn't a problem. I rarely even think about types anymore in JavaScript (I usually just know). In fact, I was screwing around with a short script just yesterday and couldn't remember what window.location was because it's rarely useful. When my script wouldn't work I just guessed that wrapping window.location in new String() would probably get the types sorted out and fix my code. Sure enough...

For the most part, just be sure to define your own data in the types that you want and don't mix types unnecessarily and you'll be fine.

@Eric, you appear to be using some new fangled JavaScript syntax. Is that well supported yet? I fucking love the shorter lambdas.

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

@Eric, you appear to be using some new fangled JavaScript syntax. Is that well supported yet? I fucking love the shorter lambdas.

Yep, it's supported. It's from ECMAScript 2015.

As for the bitwise operator, I know about it but don't use it. My thinking is that it's slower than using parseInt(). I'll have to run some benchmarks though.

Edit
Apparently bitwise is the fastest.

bamccaig

According to this parseInt is significantly slower. There are various operators that are fast to convert strings to integers, but it seems the fastest in Firefox and Chrome is actually a bitshift. The only flaw with that benchmark is that it doesn't show the results to confirm the same output. But I'm pretty sure (after removing addition because JS always sees that as concatenation if one operand is a string). >:(

Eric Johnson

I was mostly curious about converting a float to an integer, not a string, but that's still good to know. I'll stick with using bitwise operators from now on.

Neil Roy
Quote:

Apparently [jsperf.com] bitwise is the fastest.

Wow! Chrome is horribly slow at these! Like, 86K/sec for Chrome verses over 2M/sec for Firefox! That's quite the discrepancy! Interesting tests. Having to do this sort of thing makes me question the language big time though.

bamccaig

It's no different than things you have to do in C or C++ to get the most speed out of them. You can write most code without thinking too hard about it, but when performance counts you have to start learning the intricacies of the platform to design the fastest program possible. I wouldn't let that scare you off. The dynamic and memory managed nature might offer you a great boost in productivity once you get the hang of the language.

Eric Johnson

Performance differs between JavaScript engines depending on what you're doing. Chrome uses V8 and Firefox uses SpiderMonkey. Firefox may be faster at converting floats to ints, but Chrome is faster in other areas. Take this regex vs substring benchmark for example; I get 835,255 ops/sec for regex in Chrome, but only 254,962 in Firefox.

General performance isn't really an issue between JavaScript engines though. They're all pretty quick these days, but like you can see here, some are faster than others in certain areas, but it doesn't matter much in practice.

bamccaig

Of course, one option to deal with that for programs that must be blazing fast would be to generate JavaScript for each browser on the server and return the browser-optimized code when the page is requested. That's far too much trouble to be worthwhile for 99.999% of cases, but if you were trying to host a fancy game or something it might make sense. There are already several languages that can be compiled down to JavaScript. Actually, it might even be possible to write your programs in C and have that converted to JavaScript. It just might be fun to get it all setup so that you can do graphics and sound. It has been done before I think.

Eric Johnson

I'm content continuing to use vanilla JavaScript. I was just giving an example of the performance differences between engines is all.

So something interesting I encountered today: Opera doesn't like MP3 files. Ever since Opera moved to WebKit, it dropped baked-in support for playing MP3 files. It can still play MP3 files if the OS as a whole has the appropriate codecs installed though. My game, Mori, uses MP3 files, which aren't being playing in Opera. So now I'm going to try to make OGG sounds for Opera to use.

bamccaig

I suspect that FLOSS browsers in *nix would also have spotty support for mp3 files so I think offering both is the way to go.

Eric Johnson

Yeah. I added both and now Opera plays nicely.

Neil Roy

OGG is a much better choice. Higher quality and smaller filesize, plus you will usually see support as there are no legal issues with using it. That is probably why there is no support in that case. My Deluxe Pacman 2 game uses OGG files for sound effects and music. EVen at the lowest quality settings for OGG, I find there is very little perceptible difference in quality, but a huge difference in file size.

Audacity is nice for converting (and editing of course) and FREAC is also very nice for converting.

Eric Johnson

I agree that OGG is the better choice. MP3 has better cross-browser support last I checked though. And I use Audacity for all my audio needs. :)

Edit
So I've encountered a strange audio bug in my game in Firefox. Samples don't play again until they've ended from the last time they were played. Gotta fix that...

Edit #2
I fixed it by re-loading the sound if it's already being played. Previously I was pausing it and resetting its seek to the beginning whether or not is was being played. This works in Chrome, Firefox, and Opera (I'm on Linux, so I can't test Safari or Edge).

bamccaig

I was leaning more towards Emscripten for Neil since he prefers C. To be fair, I think that JavaScript could be much more productive once you get over the learning curve, but it's still a neat concept to write C and compile that to something that will run in the browser. That said, I've tried now on two Linux boxes to install it and failed both times. I'm not sure how well maintained it is. If there are Windows binaries I imagine those will just work. The project definitely needs to improve its Linux support.

Arthur Kalliokoski

This page is taking way too long to load now. Every time I look at it I think my computer has locked up.

bamccaig

I set my paging to 100 for these threads. :)

Neil Roy

I don't know what mine is set to, probably 100 as well. This is page 14 for me.

Eric Johnson

I have mine set to 25 posts per page. This is page 56 for me. I originally had it set to show all posts on a single page, but that became too slow to endure.

Neil Roy

ALL in one page?! That's nuts. ;D... but, this loads just nicely the way I have it at 100 per page with no delays.

Edit: Just found this! It's an accurate guide! ;D
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Eric Johnson

What do you guys think about BioShock? I played some of the first one several years ago but didn't like it. I later played some of the remastered version but wasn't able to get into that one either.

The game is often praised for its story, but I can't play it for its story, because the story was spoiled for me years ago. I find the minute-to-minute game-play to be boring, as all you're doing is moving from point A to point B in dimly lit areas, sometimes engaging in clunky shooting.

But anyway, I saw a video of BioShock Infinite today and wow--it's visually stunning, and I know nothing of its story. Do you think it's worth picking up?

bamccaig

I think that I watched some videos when the first one came out and came to the same conclusion: it looked like garbage. I never bought it or played it.

Chris Katko

Bioshock is a crappy crappy remake of System Shock 2 (they even have the same plot twists), except they ripped out ALL of the mature features like having to manage your inventory, having to KNOW where you're going without some magical glowing arrow telling you where to go and what button to push. Complete piss. I bought it thinking it would be a SUCCESSOR to System Shock 2 (due to the marketing saying it was) but it was the opposite.

Bioshock 2 didn't really add much. Bioshock: Infinite is different but still feels like more of the same. "Oh no, everyone is proper and prim--except we have HUGE AMOUNTS OF GORE! That's what people want!" Meh.

I've literally beat System Shock 2 probably 6 times now. And started it, dozens. It's one of the most replayable games. You really feel like you're STARVING for ammo. STARVING for nanites to repair your weapons. You start off with almost nothing and end up feeling like you have even less.

Deus Ex is a great game to replay every few years. (There's a joke phenominom where any time someone mentions DX, everyone who hears it goes... "oh crap," and reinstalls and plays it again.)

Thief 1 and 2 are brilliant as well. No matter HOW much loot you get, you NEVER feel safe. You are fragile. And the only thing that keeps you alive... is your skill. And once you realize halfway through the game that you're not dying simply because... you're awesome... it's the most rewarding feeling ever. It's an accomplishment the game didn't GIVE you (like a participation trophy), it's an accomplishment that you TOOK from the game.

[edit] If you want an almost successor to Thief, try Dishonored 1 (ONE, ONE AND ONLY ONE. DEAR GOD.). (D2 was a complete disaster release on PC.) Dishonored is not Thief... in fact, I almost think it's wrong to even compare it (though many people recommended D1 because "it's like thief.") Dishonored is really good because of the story, and feeling like a mage-thief or some kind of sneaky super-hero that can rip people's faces off at whim. There are linear levels (which T1/2 don't have!), and worst of all, you stop feeling weak as you get more magic skills. You can literally kill everyone, or sneak through the game. Except... even WORSE? The more people you kill, the more likely you are to get a "Bad ending." In a game... that gives you nothing but tools to kill people. It's completely retarded to penalize the player for using all the features that are supposed to make it fun. HOWEVER, if you can forgive that, it's a fun experience all the way through. You can play the game "twice" doing a kill run first, and a sneak run once you're more skilled at it.

Bruce Perry

I still have it set to load threads entirely on one page. Maybe it would make sense to change it at some point. :)

Eric Johnson

@Chris: I looked into playing System Shock 1 and 2 before, but they are so visually and mechanically antiquated at this point that I fear my time with them would not be enjoyable. Also, Dishonored is just a few bucks on Steam... maybe I'll pick it up.

Chris Katko

System Shock 1 is pretty dated. System Shock 2 is a different game by a different company and one of the best games ever made. You can get a high-res texture upgrade (DON'T get the MODEL update because they look different) and it's still pretty enjoyable.

But depending on how young you are, it may be too old to appreciate without your brain spending time "getting used to" the way things used to be.

Deus Ex can also have an HD texture pack, and there's a ~DirectX10 mod that adds better lighting and shaders.

Thief 1 and 2 also have a modern DirectX/OpenGL port (I think they're included in the GOG versions by default now since they help support 64-bit platforms.)

Eric Johnson

I lied. I only ever saw System Shock 1 before decided it was a "no" from me... But I just looked at System Shock 2 and it doesn't look bad. I don't mind old 2D games in the least, but old 3D games are often really ugly and clunky. I got into 3D gaming around the end of the N64 though, so I'm not too unfamiliar with "chunky" models. So I'll add it to the wishlist.

Chris Katko

Old 3D games are often really ugly and clunky.

YES. A THOUSAND TIMES YES.

1st gen 3-D was almost unbearable for me. As an adult, I can't tell what a (real) N64 is supposed to be. Just one gigantic, blurred, NTSC mess. Playstation 1 didn't even have PERSPECTIVE CORRECT TEXTURING. (N64 did.)

I remember going from beautiful games like Secret of Mana, Earthbound (in a minimalist sense), and Chrono Trigger. And then we go from that to 3d-pixel-vomit.'

PC games faired much better since you could run at 2x-4x the resolution of consoles at the START of 3D gaming. But yeah, "1st gen" 3d accelerator games were still really rough on the eyes. (Well, SS1 predates 3d accelerators.)

But there are lots of games on GOG I still can't even get myself to try because they look so bad. Meanwhile, Fallout 1/2, Diablo 1/2, Arcanum, Baldars Gate, are all gorgeous. (~same era).

Half Life 1 (I think it's better than the 2nd, though I've never managed--through boredom--to finish HL2.) is worth playing. The story and humor is amazing

Duke Nukem 3D has hands-down, some of the best level designs of any game ever made.

Fun side trivia: Thief 1 and 2, which have amazing level design, got their map inspiration from Goldeneye 64. They were inspired by the 'complete objectives in any order' and how the levels were very open-ended with rarely any forced routes. Thief 1/2 levels were actually made first, as living places, and THEN, the scripting, enemies, etc were added. Also, Goldeneye 64 had that weird 'hold R to go into aim' mode thing, and it was actually inspired by... Virtual Cop. And if you think about it, it looks EXACTLY like Virtual Cop. The cursor and all.

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Indeterminatus

Is it too late to claim that this thread locks way too late?

jmasterx

Is it too late to claim that this thread locks way too late?

Too soon.

Gideon Weems

Is it too late to say that Goldeneye was the best game Rare ever made? Man, I've gotta go back and play that one...

Chris Katko

Conkers Bad Fur Day is a damn close second. They also made Banjo and Kazooie 1 and 2, and DIDDY KONG RACING.

p.s. WTF happened to Rare? I guess they were bought out by Microsoft and then basically just... committed IP suicide? Because they went from "omg greatest company ever, rivalling NINTENDO in terms of character IP" to "made Perfect Dark Zero for Xbox (meh)" to "never heard from again."

Neil Roy

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Eric Johnson

I encountered a strange bug in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion today. I jumped in water as I returned to land, and the result was my character floating in the air motionless, almost like its wading in water animation was stuck.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fczt_lyGzw0

Edit
Here's the same thing but in another area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nEXk90eHyI

Another Edit
So I realized it's not the swimming animation that gets stuck, it's just the jumping animation. If I bash the jump button repeatedly as I approach the shore from any body of water, I can consistently get the glitch.

Here's a video where I try to get the glitch again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT4_sRXqNh8

LennyLen

p.s. WTF happened to Rare? I guess they were bought out by Microsoft and then basically just... committed IP suicide? Because they went from "omg greatest company ever, rivalling NINTENDO in terms of character IP" to "made Perfect Dark Zero for Xbox (meh)" to "never heard from again."

Most of them got back together and formed Playtonic games. Recently, they released their first game - Yooka-Laylee - after a very successful Kickstarter campaign to get it funded. It's a great game too.

Chris Katko

I backed the Kickstarter. I haven't played it yet because I'm saving it for a time when I can dedicate a good block of time to absorbing / binging it.

However, Playtronic is a fraction of the developers of Rare. Basically, the key guys for Banjo and Kazooie. That's it. What about all the other great games they made (and their teams)?

Gideon Weems

Bugs in the Elder Scrolls series? Inconceivable! (Nice video, by the way.)

Conkers Bad Fur Day is a damn close second.

Amen. Those two games are masterpieces. The Banjo series was nice but felt more like a collect-a-thon, DK64 but with more generic characters... Rare was always a copycat when it came to character design, though: Battletoads, Banjo & Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini... They are all rip-offs (or just plain generic). Conker parodied this, however, and that propelled him to greater heights. Then, there's Mr Pants. All the rest are forgettable, really.

LennyLen

However, Playtronic is a fraction of the developers of Rare. Basically, the key guys for Banjo and Kazooie.

I probably should have said most of the BK team.

Chris Katko
Eric Johnson

Bugs in the Elder Scrolls series? Inconceivable!

Big surprise, right? :P I thought the glitch was neat was all. ;)

@Chris: Is that an N64 game?! :o It looks great! I'm surprised to see an N64 game with voice acting (beyond grunts and short soundbytes)... and cursing. :o

Neil Roy

I was digging through some old files and came upon the original Speedhack entries from 1999. It's hard to believe it's been so long now, almost 18 years!

Attached is the source code for the original entries if you're curious.

Eric Johnson

This gave me a good chuckle (from speed/29.txt): ;D

Neil of '99 said:

The competition rules state that I must "include the number '29' somewhere
in the program" (to commemorate it being Arron's birthday). But
unfortunately, although the number 29 is certainly a very fine thing to have
as the age for an Arron, it didn't strike me as a particularly useful or
numerologically significant thing to build into a computer game.

However, since the rules do not specify which number base they are talking
about, it occurs to me that this could just as well be a reference to the
hexadecimal value 0x29, which is decimal 41. Admittedly, this number has
nothing to do with the age of the Arron, or at least won't do for another
dozen dozens of quartets of weeks, but the rules never actually spell out
that they are talking about the particular 29 which happens to be his
current age (they strongly imply that, but I decided to look the other way
and miss this hint :-)

Now, 0x29, when mapped onto the ASCII character set, refers to the closing
bracket character, ')'. So in order to comply with the competition rules, I
have included several of these symbols in my program. In fact, as reported
by the command:

sed -e "s/[^)]//g" *.[ch] | tr -d "\n" | wc -c

there are currently no less than ONE THOUSAND AND EIGHTY TWO unique
occurrences of a twenty nine in this game! This figure is likely to have
increased even further by the time you get hold of the code, since I haven't
quite finished writing it yet. And there are four more just in this text
file, so if you included the documentation in the above search command, that
would get you up to a total of 1086 different ')' characters! (and since I
just typed another there, that makes it 1087 (and having opened a bracket to
interject this, I'm going to have to close it, which makes 1088 (and now
that I've opened a nested bracket, we are up to 1089 or something, I'm
losing count here))) (btw. I hope I got the right number of closes there).

I'm tempted to say that this is all a joke :-) except that by doing so, I've
just bumped up the count one more...

Edit
You may be interested to learn that sed -e "s/[^)]//g" *.[ch] | tr -d "\n" | wc -c returns "1221" for me. :)

Johan Halmén

0x29 is not twentynine, it's two-nine. The ty in twentynine refers to decimal numbers.

Neil Roy

0x29 is not twentynine, it's two-nine. The ty in twentynine refers to decimal numbers.

Good point! It's 2 times 16 + 9. 2 times 16 is not twenty, it's 32.

Eric Johnson

Which browser(s) are you guys using? I recently dropped Vivaldi for Chrome again. Vivaldi has a few quirks when it comes to how JavaScript events prevent defaults from firing (like how CTRL+S in Google Docs saves the document in Chrome, but triggers a "save full page" in Vivaldi; or how right-click events don't fire correctly at all in Vivaldi).

Neil Roy

Which browser(s) are you guys using?

Still using Firefox myself, current version I have: "54.0.1 (64-bit)". Works well, always has for me.

Bruce Perry
Neil Roy said:

2 times 16 is not twenty, it's 32.

Or maybe it's 2C, which equals 10 × 2 + C which equals d/d2 5·2².

Which browser(s) are you guys using?

Chrome :) Also, is that an onigiri holding a club?

Eric Johnson

Also, is that an onigiri holding a club?

No, it's the player character from my game, Mori. It's 8x8 pixels total (but obviously blown up here), so there's not much detail; it's supposed to be a blue blob with an eyepatch though.

MiquelFire

Mainly use Firefox here.

bamccaig

I prefer to use Pentadactyl on Firefox, but because of the breaking changes to the extension API over the past few years it's barely functional anymore and its developers are struggling to maintain it. I still barely hold onto Firefox for personal use, but I use predominantly Chrome for work because it tends to be more reliable for development. It's also my go-to if I need the browser to just work without fighting with script and cookie allowance. The truth is that none of the modern browsers are very good.

LennyLen

Which browser(s) are you guys using?

I'm not. I just stick my finger in the ethernet socket and render the page directly to the optical centre of my brain.

jmasterx

Chrome

Gideon Weems
Quote:

Chrome

LennyLen uses Cranium Chromium.

Eric Johnson
LennyLen said:

I'm not. I just stick my finger in the ethernet socket and render the page directly to the optical centre of my brain.

How unfortunate it must be when you encounter pop ups. :(

LennyLen

How unfortunate it must be when you encounter pop ups.

My arm has embedded adblocking technology.

Edgar Reynaldo

Don't worry. Whenever a new member joins, we secretly implant a microchip into their bodies. We know their every move. Been having alien abduction dreams lately Eric?

jmasterx

Don't worry. Whenever a new member joins, we secretly implant a microchip into their bodies. We know their every move.

Powered by the Allegro 5 MindControl Addon

jmasterx

Don't worry. Whenever a new member joins, we secretly implant a microchip into their bodies. We know their every move.

Powered by the Allegro 5 Mind Control Addon >:(

Edgar Reynaldo

Ah. I see you've mastered the skill of double posting as well as mind control.

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Eric Johnson

I accidentally double posted once before. I actually tried to deliberately do it again today, but it didn't work. :(

Been having alien abduction dreams lately Eric?

Yeah, it's pretty weird though. Like, I'm totally naked in the dream. It's the one where I go around abducting aliens, looking for the best ones to probe. Most of them have dried-up anuses though, so I'm looking for a real juicy one that'll hopefully do well with probing. Wish me luck! :D

Edgar Reynaldo

Belated warning on the above material. Some of this content may not be suitable for children...

Eric Johnson

Like last night, I caught one that had "rEyNaLdO eDgAr" written on its forehead. It must be from some alien language, because I didn't recognize it. Anyway, it was pretty juicy, so I ran after it. Once I caught it, it started screeching something about an "eagle goo-ee". Like, what the heck is a "goo-ee"? ??? Anyway, it was totally lathered in butter for some reason, so it got away. :-/

Edgar Reynaldo

Well at least your name isn't

Dick (Richard) Johnson

. That was the name of my Rhetoric professor. We said it was his pron name.

Anyway, it was totally lathered in butter for some reason, so it got away.

Yep. That's right.

Eric Johnson

That was the name of my Rhetoric professor. We said it was his pron name.

I wonder where the trend of over-the-top stage names originated...

My grandmother once bought my dad a shirt that read, "I have a big Johnson." She innocently believed it meant "I have a big family, and my last name is 'Johnson'." ::)

Bruce Perry

Ah. I see you've mastered the skill of double posting as well as mind control.

Who else wanted to expand the nested screenshot recursively?

Eric Johnson

So I started porting my KrampusHack 2016 game, Kitten Kerfuffle, to JavaScript today. Here's what it looks like in its current, broken state. :P

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Chris Katko

Still looks cool. 8-)

Eric Johnson
Quote:

Still looks cool. 8-)

Glad you think so. I fixed the terrain generation, but now all of the kittens spawn in the same area, which shouldn't be happening...

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By the way, you should change "www.Katko.us" to "http://www.Katko.us" on your profile page, because currently clicking on the link navigates to "https://www.allegro.cc/members/www.Katko.us" (although the link seems dead either way). :P

Chris Katko

I've been meaning to get the site back up. Once I got a job I was like, "Meh, I don't need to pay the monthly charges."

Eric Johnson

What'd you have on your Web site anyway? I checked the Wayback Machine, but most of the links are incomplete.

Chris Katko

Probably nothing useful to most people. Lists and examples of my hardware and software projects. Resume. Stuff like that.

As soon as I got the site up and running I was like, "Wait a minute... I don't have any CONTENT worth sharing!"

Eric Johnson

Probably nothing useful to most people. Lists and examples of my hardware and software projects.

I must not be most people then, because I usually get a kick out of seeing people's projects. I especially like blogs, because they can be a bit more personal than static Web pages. It's always cool, I think, when I stumble across a blog that hasn't been touched in 5+ years, yet it's still online... it's like I've opened a time capsule or something.

Hey... you should start a blog so I have something interesting to read. ;)

Edit
A few people had issues with locating kittens in the original release of Kitten Kerfuffle, so I've decided to add a "compass" pointing to the nearest one, instead of just using text (I may drop the text indicator altogether).

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Edit #2

The rewrite is complete. You can play the game here and can read a quick post about it here.

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Neil Roy

It's true! ;D

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Chris Katko

I must not be most people then, because I usually get a kick out of seeing people's projects.

You might like this one then!

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I spent two days playing around in my free time and figured out how to combine Javascript+ChartJS, Python, and SQLite, and host a website that allows me to remotely view my laptop's (<-ahah) current available memory.

The plan is to add asynchronous data refreshing, as well as a variety of system resource captures. I imagine something like that already exists but who cares, I'd rather spend 4-6 hours LEARNING Python and Javascript then learning how to setup someone's tool.

Eric Johnson

Wow! That's pretty impressive, Chris! Do you plan on doing anything with this and its data after getting asynchronous refreshes to work, or is it all just for fun?

Speaking of "fun", I see you have Algodoo in your bookmarks there. That's what ultimately became of Phun, right? I remember playing with Phun roughly 8 or 9 years ago.

Edit
I went to reply to This Place Just Doesn't Die, but it was locked! :o I thought for sure it would become the next long-running thread and endure the test of time... :'(

Chris Katko

Wow! That's pretty impressive, Chris! Do you plan on doing anything with this and its data after getting asynchronous refreshes to work, or is it all just for fun?

Thanks!

I'm not sure what I'm doing with it yet but I've always loved graphs and data. I could, for example, have my main computer upload those stats, and then have a remote computer watch my voltages, RAM/CPU statistics, etc.

Neil Roy

You could turn that into a side scroller game, with a helicopter rescuing people from burning buildings... use the code to generate that graph to generate a city. ;D

Chris Katko

That's actually freakin brilliant. Have a silly "helicopter rescue" game into the javascript.

[edit]

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Just added CPU temps, and only took me ~30 minutes. So far so good. :)

Gideon Weems
Neil Roy said:

You could turn that into a side scroller game, with a helicopter rescuing people from burning buildings... use the code to generate that graph to generate a city.

This idea is spectacular.

So... whattya think happens when there are no topics in Off-Topic?

Eric Johnson

So... whattya think happens when there are no topics in Off-Topic?

In 40 years, when Allegro is no more, and everyone has moved from C and C++ to something called "*^Q" ("star carrot queue"), this thread will be going strong with more than a million replies. Nothing else will be here aside from this thread. We're it, man. We're the future!

Neil Roy

In 40 years I will be 92, shaking my cane and yelling at the young whipper-snappers about programming in a REAL language like pure C... like we did in my day! ;)

Eric Johnson

You know, there are probably some really old folks who yell at programmers nowadays for using compilers and high-level languages, because "back in my day, we wrote REAL software in binary or later on using punch cards!" :P

Neil Roy

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DanielH

How about running Turbo Pascal off one 5 1/4" floppy mainly because we didn't have a hard drive.

8086/8088 PC
512kb memory
2 x 5 1/4" floppy (I think only 640kb each)
Hercules graphics card
Green monochrome CRT

Eric Johnson

Speaking of floppy disks... I knew an old lady a few years back who was preparing to move across the country. She had a Windows 95 machine, which is where she claimed to keep all of her banking information, recipes, and writings. The machine was ancient. I was surprised it had lasted so long. She asked me if I thought her files would survive the cross-country trip, or if she should try backing things up. I said it should be O.K. I'm not even sure how you would backup files on such an old computer. It didn't even have USB ports. I never heard whether or not it survived the trip.

Anyway, are any of you Sonic fans? It dawned on me that I had never finished any of the 2D games... until today. Today I finished Sonic the Hedgehog 1 and 2, and I'm working now on completing Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I plan on getting Sonic Mania sometime in the next couple of weeks. So far, reviews for the game are pretty good.

bamccaig

I'm not even sure how you would backup files on such an old computer. It didn't even have USB ports.

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A Windows 95 machine probably would have had floppy disks for backup (hopefully it's not a LOT of data).

In theory, a network solution might work too, but since speeds were so poor in those days I'm not sure that would have been built into the OS at the time. You could probably boot a Linux distro that would be able to do it though if you failed to find Windows 95 compatible software.

You could probably just hook up a slave drive too though (if you could find another PATA disk small enough) and use that as a backup. Or else just remove the hard drive from the ancient PC and hook it up to a modern PC (you should be able to find a PATA to SATA adapter for the hard drive if your machine doesn't support the connection natively, and there are kits you can buy for that if it matters).

Other than that, I'm not sure what else you could use for backup... :-/ I don't imagine CD-R drivers would have been available at the time, but perhaps they are available now? Windows 95 definitely supported CD-ROMs though.

MiquelFire

Actually, Windows 95 OSR2 supported CD-ROMs. The normal retail version didn't even have the CD player.

Eric Johnson

Allow me to rephrase: I'm not sure how to easily backup data from such a machine and transfer it to a more modern one. My first thought was over a network, but she didn't have an Internet connection. She used the computer to manually keep track of bills and stuff she received in the mail, as well as recipes, poems, short stories, etc, but nothing from the Internet. And I didn't/don't have a floppy disk reader, and her computer didn't have a CD reader, as I recall. So it was pretty limited in what she could do with the data. I suppose she could have backed things up to her own floppy disks, but I'm not sure she had any extras. To be honest, I didn't really want to get involved, because if data became lost along the way, or something didn't go as she expected, she would've blamed me. :P

bamccaig

Allow me to rephrase: I'm not sure how to easily backup data from such a machine and transfer it to a more modern one. My first thought was over a network, but she didn't have an Internet connection.

Apparently Ethernet cards were available for [some?] Win95 machines so it should be possible to network with another machine without any Internet connection. The ancient machine would have to have an Ethernet card and you'd probably need a cross-over cable, and I'm not sure what software wizardry.

To be honest, I didn't really want to get involved, because if data became lost along the way, or something didn't go as she expected, she would've blamed me. :P

I concur. I generally avoid getting involved in any kind of technical support work for family, friends, acquaintances, strangers, etc., because it'll at best end break even for you and at worst cost you reputation points or a lot of trouble or money or who knows what else.

My parents and finacée often try to offer up my services for acquaintances that need technical support, but I'm usually pretty quick to remind them that I'm a programmer, not technical support, and I can do my best if I'm willing, but a solution is not guaranteed and I'm not going to spend much time trying unless I'm being paid well to do it (and of course usually you're working for free, or $20, or a couple of drinks, in such cases). And if you're going to pay real money anyway you might as well hire somebody that does it for a living and has experiences I don't have.

Gideon Weems
bamccaig said:

I generally avoid getting involved in any kind of technical support work for family, friends, acquaintances, strangers, etc., because it'll at best end break even for you...

Fixing someone's computer is a good way to score a date.

Chris Katko

Peter Hull's avatar is ANIMATED?!

IT BLINKED AT ME.

:o

Eric Johnson

Fixing someone's computer is a good way to score a date.

That might just work... Time to find some hot chicks to try it on. ;D

Peter Hull's avatar is ANIMATED?!

You didn't notice before now?

bamccaig

I feel like that avatar has been on this message board longer than I have. :P

Chris Katko

Maybe I forgot about it. But I never normally just leave a window open on A.CC and just sit there.

It was on my laptop and out of the corner of my eye my brain is like "something moved on A.CC?!"

[edit] Post 1451!

Neil Roy

I used to back things up just by saving them to a second set of floppies in my DOS and Amiga days. I still have many of my Amiga floppies and DOS floppies, though the DOS stuff I eventually transferred to CDs which I still have. I can no longer read the DOS or Amiga floppies sadly.

I want to buy a floppy disk drive again so I can read them. And someday, maybe buy an actual Amiga again. Wish I still had my A500, it was my favourite.

Johan Halmén's avatar blinks. I always got a kick out of that.

Chris Katko

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Added CPU and load averages. Chart JS is pretty cool. The graph is interactive. You can click any of the datasets on the legend and it'll disable them.

I think I'm going to make a common interface so you basically just write a Python script that implements that (dead simple) interface and you can call whatever you want to get the actual statistics, and as long as you report them back using the standard interface, the main program doesn't care.

Bruce Perry
bamccaig said:

I feel like that avatar has been on this message board longer than I have. :P

Yes, I think it has :)

Chris, your helicopter game needs more kittens :)

Peter Hull
bamccaig said:

A Windows 95 machine probably would have had floppy disks for backup (hopefully it's not a LOT of data).

Zip Drives, dude!

bamccaig said:

I feel like that avatar has been on this message board longer than I have. :P

It's the only one I've ever had apart from a brief interlude.

Neil Roy said:

In 40 years I will be 92, shaking my cane and yelling at the young whipper-snappers about programming in a REAL language like pure C... like we did in my day! ;)

To be fair, you do that now ;)

Cheers, all!

Johan Halmén

I think the "This Place Just Doesn't Die" thread died too soon.

Neil Roy
Quote:

To be fair, you do that now ;)

True, gotta practise for when I get older. ;)

Eric Johnson

So how do you guys pronounce "Reese's" as in "Reese's Peanut Butter Cups"? I've always pronounced it like "ree sez", but folks here in Louisiana all say it like "ree seas".

Gideon Weems

REE-sez. While you're down there, ask the folks of Louisiana the name of that winged insect that lights up at night as part of its mating ritual.

I think the "This Place Just Doesn't Die" thread died too soon.

For a while, I thought it was going to systemd this thread. I'll go ahead and play the song.

Eric Johnson

While you're down there, ask the folks of Louisiana the name of that winged insect that lights up at night as part of its mating ritual.

I spent most of my life in California, but my mom was born and raised in the south, so I knew them as both lightning bugs and fireflies as a kid. I think most would call them lightning bugs here though, whereas they'd mostly be known as fireflies everywhere else. I'll have to ask around to be sure though.

Neil Roy

Always called them "Fireflies" up north here in Canada.

And it's Ree-sez.

Eric Johnson

@Neil: How do you pronounce "about"? I've heard some Canadians pronounce it like "aboot".

bamccaig

Zip Drives, dude!

I think I must have been too young (or poor?) for those. They don't ring any bells. Manufacturing defects aside, they do sound pretty cool for their day.

Append:

Canada is a big place, similar to the USA, so we don't all speak the same. Accents on the West and East coast are more prominent (and different) than in the middle provinces (at least to me), and Quebec (and predominantly French communities in other provinces) can have a thick accent from their French-Canadian influences.

media player

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

Canada is a big place, similar to the USA, so we don't all speak the same.

Okay, but can you say "shimmi shoomi bimmi boomi laba smiddi smooda boo" fourteen times slow?

Neil Roy

@Neil: How do you pronounce "about"? I've heard some Canadians pronounce it like "aboot".

"about". On the east coast you will hear something more like "aboot" though in provinces like Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick.

Quebec is mostly French (well, when you get outside of Montreal anyhow). I don't think the west coast is much different as far as how they pronounce words compared to the rest of the nation. The main differences are Quebec and east of it and of course, in the Inuit communities to the far north.

Also, Quebec French is different from that you hear in France. It's the same difference between American and Canadian English and British English. My father is French and lives in southern Quebec. Very friendly people there.

jmasterx

Yes, we are a friendly bunch in Quebec!

Neil Roy

;D

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The following video is a news story about a black man who befriended KKK members and actually, over time, caused 25 of them to leave the KKK, and when they did, they gave him their robes. Amazing story about how you stop the hate with friendship, rather than more hate. This is a great man as far as I am concerned.

This is a link to a Facebook page video... well worth watching, especially with all the hate lately, this is inspiring.

https://www.facebook.com/cbnnews/videos/10159521469970393/

Edgar Reynaldo

L0L WHUT? Someone was talking about Russia? I'm lost.

And besides I needed a reason to post and this thread doesn't have enough replies yet.

This thread is just not epic enough yet. When it reaches 9000 then we'll at least have status with DragonBallZ. It's over 9000!!!!!!111111

How many different subjects have we discussed? Didn't we have some kind of holy war earlier, or was that another thread? I can't remember. Anyway it's Friday night and I don't want to go to bed so somebody reply, or I'll have to go bother people on IRC. :/

Eric Johnson

Anyway it's Friday night and I don't want to go to bed so somebody reply, or I'll have to go bother people on IRC. :/

Hey, I'm somebody! :D I found an old HP Mini laptop in the trash today (don't ask why I was digging through the trash). It was beat-up pretty badly; the hinges were busted, the hard drive is totally obliterated, and there's no battery. I disassembled it and scrapped it for the working bits (keyboard, RAM, and the display). Not sure what I'll do with any of the parts just yet, but I'll add them to my collection of computer parts for now. I also found a super old hard drive from spring of 2000. Its capacity? Only 7.5 GBs (or so says the information on the back)! :o Not sure what (if anything) is on it yet. Not even sure if it works. I'll try reading it tomorrow.

Edgar Reynaldo

I have an old 286 in my room. Someday I want to get it working, but I need a replacement monitor cuz the original went ZAP! and blew up when I tried to use it.

Also have a Pentium II sitting around that doesn't boot. It powers on then powers down. That's it. No output on the monitor. I'll have to tear it open and see if I can find something useful out.

Also have a dead laptop that won't boot - it's pretty messed up. It goes into some kind of safe mode and makes me try to repair things which takes hours and doesn't help. I'm just gonna take the old hard drive out and scrap it I think. It was really too slow. The HD must be low rpm because it was the bottleneck, even with a slow cpu. Have I mentioned how much I love my new laptop with a 256GB SSD for the Windows boot drive and a 1TB HDD for storage?

EDIT
Hey, let's chat on IRC - I'm Modulo5K on #allegro on irc.freenode.net

Eric Johnson

I think you've mentioned your love for your new laptop a few times at least. :P

Laptop hard drives usually operate at around 5400 RPMs, so I'm surprised the hard drive would be the bottleneck. Any idea how low the RPMs is on it?

Also, what do you call those repair tools used to disassemble computers and phones? They're usually some kind of plastic and look nearly identical to guitar picks. Whatever they're called, I need to get some, because using a flat-head screwdriver just doesn't cut it anymore (too many little scratches).

Edit:
It's just a "prying tool" or "spudger", I guess.

Neil Roy

Edgar, you sound like me, I have many old parts around here. I think I have a 486, I dunno, a really old board anyhow with something on it! I have a Voodoo 3-2000 video card (or is that a VD2-3000?). A complete computer that was given to me with an Intel... something... it's a duel core (I am used to AMD). I want to build a simple internet system for a friend and an older DOS computer for myself.

MiquelFire

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Are you a time traveler?

Chris Katko

I've got a Compaq "Portable" 1. Weighs like 30 lbs.

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I wanted to put a webserver on it some day. Ironically, I think the "serial -> ethernet" adapter will have a 10-100x faster processor than the server.

Eric Johnson

Are you a time traveler?

Yes. I travel forwards in time. :)

Edgar Reynaldo

Well I travel sideways in time. So there.

Eric Johnson

Well I travel sideways in time. So there.

So that explains why you crab walk everywhere...

Neil Roy

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Eric Johnson

That would explain deja vu.

Neil Roy

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Arvidsson

Has anyone played PUBG? I tried it last night and it was fun as heck!

bamccaig

I've played a few times with Chris Katko and have about 50 hours in game. It's a really fun game, but it's also extremely frustrating. Worst of all, because it's so popular and being good at this game is praised there are countless people that are using hacks with no conscience. Many popular streamers have been caught using hacks. And no, they're not really that good.

Last week or so I swore off PUBG for a few months. I'll wait and see what the developers achieve in curbing the hacking. It feels like every game I play there are hackers now, and you just have absolutely no chance against people that can see you through walls and cover in a game that is purely about being unseen and getting the drop on people. The game itself offers you little to defend yourself from hackers. You cannot spectate your killer, or even see a 10 second killcam. They've added a "report" feature to report suspected misbehavior, but since you cannot spectate you're just guessing, which probably leads to unnecessary volumes of false reports, which probably makes it that much less likely for them to identify the real hackers.

I know from Counter-Strike experience that you cannot automatically detect and ban hackers. After nearly 20 years of Counter-Strike hacks are still prevalent. Your only recourse for keeping them out of the game is giving players the tools to identify, report, and kick/ban hackers (or private servers that are always manned by trustworthy admins). CSGO doesn't suffer from too much hacking, but it still does happen often enough. They also usually don't get away with it for very long. Of course, most of them enjoy it so much they don't mind spending extra money to just set up new accounts and do it again. It'll always be a problem. I just hope that PUBG manages to improve the player experience so that it isn't so hopeless. Until then I'm back to my usual CSGO self. :)

Chris Katko

I've got ~120 hours so far. The fact it's a single map so far and still interesting says a lot about the core game mechanics. (Want action, drop in a high-action area. Want relaxed pace, drop off in the beaches. Etc)

It's very frustrating solo (100, 1 man "teams") for sure. If you die, it's often without even seeing where you got shot from. There's many more "this is B.S." deaths.

Duos (50, 2 man teams) is really fun with friends.

Squads (25, 4-man teams) is hectic but fun with friends. (I imagine with random people would still be frustrating.)

I kind of like duos best because you can kill one guy with an ambush and their group is half-strength (1 guy left) and easily finish them off. But in squads, you knock one guy out and the other three can murder you and res their guy and the second you started firing, you attracted another group into the fight. ... So now you've got ANOTHER four people, fresh on ammo and health, shooting your back.

It's really interesting how the different group sizes affect gameplay. Solo means there are 100 independant units running around the map. They're everywhere. Squad, everyone is in fewer groups. So you're less likely to see people and yet it's a heavy-duty fight.

PM me if you want into my Discord channel / want to play teams with me. I play pretty regularly.

The hacking is B.S. But I'll go days without noticing any hackers. This weekend I didn't have any problems. But the week before when I was playing with bam, it felt like there were lots of "b.s." deaths.

Arvidsson

Yeah I got tired quick of playing solo. But playing duo was an entirely different experience for me. So much fun cooperating and trying to approach situations with good tactics. I haven't experienced much hacking but then again I'm not the best FPS player (haven't played Counterstrike for 15 years or something) so I might have gotten killed by hackers but mistaken it for my own incompetence instead :)

It would be fun to play as a team sometime!

bamccaig

AllegroComp2017. 8-)

Onewing

Friendly reminder...TINS2017 is in October.

http://tins.amarillion.org/news/

Arthur Kalliokoski

whupsy!

Eric Johnson

Almost, Arthur... Almost. ;)

Edit
So last month I shared a recreation of Allegro's built-in font in TTF form, and now I've attached a WOFF version if anyone wants it. The TTF version is 16 kilobytes, while the WOFF one is just 4 kilobytes!

MiquelFire

Does Allegro 5 support WOFF files?

Eric Johnson

Does Allegro 5 support WOFF files?

Not to my knowledge, but you could write a WOFF addon if you really wanted to, I guess. You can use WOFF on the Web though.

Chris Katko

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Open_Font_Format

Quote:

WOFF is essentially OpenType or TrueType with compression and additional metadata. The goal is to support font distribution from a server to a client over a network with bandwidth constraints.

Seems like it'd be way easier to simply convert WOFF back to TTF.

You can even do it online:

https://andrewsun.com/tools/woffer-woff-font-converter/

Bruce Perry

WOFF!

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MiquelFire

FreeType had WOFF format for a few years actually, so Allegro 5 should support it. As long as the FreeType lib is not over 5 years old.

Interesting thing I saw today on the way home. Someone didn't know the reason why their car wasn't driving right and smoking was because it was on fire.

Eric Johnson

BBC News don land in Pidgin na.

I thought this was satire, but it appears to be real: BBC News is now available in broken English: https://www.bbc.com/pidgin Hilarious. ::)

bamccaig

Jesus Christ, is illiterate a protected class these days?

Chris Katko

Actually, IIRC, in some African countries it's actually the language they speak.

[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_African_Pidgin_English

You can also get a pidgin english bible. =D

http://www.pidginbible.org/Concindex.html

Quote:

1Aloha! Dis me, James, da guy dat work fo God an fo Jesus Christ, da Good Boss. I writing dis letta fo God's peopo from da twelve Jewish ohana, dat stay scatta all ova da world.

bamccaig

Fair enough, I guess in that part of the world that is how English is spoken, and we'd be speaking it wrong. I guess it's good that the BBC is publishing in that then.

Neil Roy

I emanday atthay igpay attinlay ebay upportedsay! ;D

Bruce Perry

Ewazon ouldshazon obablyprazon opstazon emandingdazon ingsthazon asedbazon onazon "amazon eelsfazon" :)

(See what I did there?)

Gideon Weems

Atwhazon isazon "amazon eelsfazon"?

Bruce Perry

"Ma feels" ;) although actually it's more likely to be written "muh feels". Translation: "my feelings".

You got reply 1500 ;D

Eric Johnson

Whoever gets the 1600th reply has to buy the rest of the thread drinks. :)

Edgar Reynaldo

To my bemusement, this thread added another page. \o\^/o/

Neil Roy

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MiquelFire

Why am not even reading it?

Eric Johnson

You might like Humble Bundle's latest bundle, Neil... ::)

Edgar Reynaldo

Gideon, get back to work

bamccaig

You might like Humble Bundle's latest bundle, Neil... ::)

You imply that I would greatly love this bundle as well, but I cannot from the bundle page determine if that is the case. Are these medias actually worthwhile, or am I going to regret purchasing them with a floppy penis? I have really no idea what "Sakura" is.

On a side note, I happened to watch/listen to this demo to see what it was, and for some reason the music reminded me of 007 (specifically, 007: The World Is Not Enough on PlayStation):

(Probably NSFW in most political climates these days)

video

I don't know what that says about me personally.

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

You imply that I would greatly love this bundle as well, but I cannot from the bundle page determine if that is the case. Are these medias actually worthwhile, or am I going to regret purchasing them with a floppy penis? I have really no idea what "Sakura" is.

Is your name "Neil"? If I wasn't clear, I directed the link towards Neil, because he posted a picture of boob-centered women, and the bundle is practically the boob bundle. :P As for "sakura", it refers to cherry blossoms (like the tree).

The "clap"-like beat of the video you shared reminds me of a soundtrack from one of the original Sonic games (2 or 3). I'll share it later if I can find it.

Here is one from Sonic 3 that has a similar clap/pop sound. I'm sure there was another one though.

Also, for $1 USD you get 7 "games"/products, so the bundle might be worth getting if you hope to resell the keys somewhere. You don't have much to lose there. :P

Edit
Here are the games' going prices on G2A ($1 tier):

HunieCam Studio = $1.55
Sakura Agent = $0.71
Sakura Fantasy = $0.30
Sakura Beach = $0.43
Sakura Beach 2 = $0.30
Sakura Angels = $0.60
Sakura Spirit = $0.94

Total: $4.83

So you could potentially spend $1 and make $4.83, or $3.83 in profit. I'm sure there are fees, but even so, if it amounts to more than $1 profit, you could then turn around and keep buying more bundles and continually selling them (assuming the prices remain the same) and keep making profit... :P Not bad if you're extremely bored.

Gideon Weems

Gideon, get back to work

Hehe, shhhh.

OK. :D

Neil Roy

Yes, and Neil likes WOMEN, not little girls... and I am not an anime fan. Plus there's just something creepy about Japanese games like that.

More boob humour for the real men out there. :P

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Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Yes, and Neil likes WOMEN, not little girls...

If you check out the wiki for the games, you'll find that the characters are actually hundreds of years old, and they only appear to be little girls. ;)

Neil Roy said:

Anyhow, my post was a joke, if you have no sense of humour, than you would do best to ignore my posts as I will not change anytime soon.

My post was a joke, too. :)

Gideon Weems

If you check out the wiki for the games, you'll find that the characters are actually hundreds of years old, and they only appear to be little girls. ;)

Gentlemen, we have found the loophole.

Bruce Perry

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[EDIT] Also:

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Edgar Reynaldo

Gentlemen, we've degenerated into boobs and ducks.

By all means, carry on. xD :D

Neil Roy

;D

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and finally, a pic of a true beauty, the only one I really lust after...

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...she also happens to be my wife. ;)

Edit: ;D, I just realized I could have posed with my wife for that pic at the top probably (except she is older than I am, she only looks 20 years younger).

Gideon Weems

Nice job, Neil!

Neil Roy

Something I created a while ago. When I seen this pic of snails, this caption came to me... ;)

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bamccaig
Neil Roy said:

...she also happens to be my wife. ;)

I call BS. I demand a picture of you together holding today's newspaper. :P

Neil Roy

L.O.L., we don't even get the newspaper. :D

Here's a pic of us from 1998, taken with a huge VHS shoulder mounted camera, hooked up to a video capture card on my DOS machine! About the time I started work on Deluxe Pacman I think.

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Or... more recently, and just her, from July of this year...

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If you look at me then and now, and her then and now, you will see why I get pissed off at her for not aging! She's older than I am and I was actually mistaken for her father. LMAO

Chris Katko

When did you become Sargon of Akkad?!

video

Neil Roy

When did you become Sargon of Akkad?!

Hey, I had that look back in 1998, so he stole it from me! Look at me now, that is him in 20 years. ;)

There also was another guy I used to get compared to back then to some character on "Home Improvement". Never watched the show myself.

Bruce Perry

When did you become Sargon of Akkad?!

ROFFLE! That moment when you think something tenuous and then someone else posts it ;D

Neil Roy

Now to bring a bit more class to this joint... this is a favourite classical tune of mine. This is often used for various commercials where it builds up the intensity over time, I really like this video as it shows them playing it... "In The Hall of the Mountain King"...

video

bamccaig

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Bump. >:(

Bruce Perry

Neil, is that Q looking over at us at the beginning?

bambams, what? They are? Why?

Eric Johnson

Would anyone like a Steam key for The Walking Dead: Season 1? I got it on Humble Bundle, but don't want it. It has to be activated before September 23rd: LHXZT-TN5XW-HZFGX.

bamccaig

bambams, what? They are? Why?

The same reason girls are obsessed with anything. Big media told them to be.

Neil Roy

There's also the "bikini bridge" which goes along nicely with the thigh gap. ;)

Neil, is that Q looking over at us at the beginning?

Q?

MiquelFire

Alright, who killed the thread again?

Eric Johnson

Alright, who killed the thread again?

1, 2, 3... not it! :-X

Neil Roy

;D;D;D
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Eric Johnson

Just imagine a newcomer popping in to see what's up and finding this shit. :-/

Neil Roy

Newcomers? Where? Couldn't read that last word, was filtered out and I forgot how to remove that. :)

You people are difficult to please. No religious beliefs, no sense of humour, yeesh!

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Newcomers? Where? Couldn't read that last word, was filtered out and I forgot how to remove that. :)

A few newcomers trickle in every now and again. The last word was a crass synonym for "poop". ;)

Neil Roy

Well I haven't seen any newcomers in here, and if they have, they need to be ashamed for not contributing for over 1600 messages! :)

Okay, time for some cleaner pics... :)

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Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Okay, time for some cleaner pics... :)

Funny. ;D But something that a lot of people miss is that there are supposed to be seven pairs of clean animals and just one pair of unclean animals. ;)

Neil Roy

You really don't laugh too much do you Eric? ;)
They're joke pics = I am not getting into a Biblical debate! Just laugh or I will return to nice boobs and cold balls pics!!! ;D

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

You really don't laugh too much do you Eric? ;)
They're joke pics = I am not getting into a Biblical debate! Just laugh or I will return to nice boobs and cold balls pics!!! ;D

I laughed! I said "Funny. ;D" didn't I? ??? I wasn't trying to start a debate! I was trying to appeal to your good side! ;)

Edgar Reynaldo

Oh my sweet Jehosaphat I'd rather debate the Bible than see your boob and ball pics. That baby cat picture borders on pedophilia. :/

Eric Johnson

Did Matthew every reply to this thread? Do threads still lock too soon? Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z! :D

bamccaig

I suggest we continue this thread with Bible themed pornography images. ???

Eric Johnson

What are you doing slacking off? Shouldn't you be working on bambot? It hasn't received an update in 2 years for crying out loud! >:(

bamccaig

Bambot is only there for moral support. Mostly mine.

Bruce Perry

Neil, Q is an all-powerful, arrogant Star Trek character. In the video you posted, the guy who looks towards us at the beginning had to my eyes a similar face and expression.

video

I think Eric was showing off his bible knowledge, not trying to ruin the jokes :)

[EDIT]
Matthew posted three times: here, here and here. I know this because I still have allegro.cc set to load the entire thread in a single page 8-)

Chris Katko

You ever notice that the Q warping effect... is the same effect as the Enterprise entering warp in the intro? I'm pretty sure that's no coincidence.

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Edgar Reynaldo

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Thread Spocks too soon.

Neil Roy

Oh my sweet Jehosaphat I'd rather debate the Bible than see your boob and ball pics. That baby cat picture borders on pedophilia. :/

It was obviously one of those moments when the baby grabbed the cat and the parents found the pose cute. You need to see the cuteness and humour in this, not your secret fantasies. :P

I think Eric was showing off his bible knowledge, not trying to ruin the jokes :)

Perhaps, you never know in this place. ;)

Quote:

Neil, Q is an all-powerful, arrogant Star Trek character. In the video you posted, the guy who looks towards us at the beginning had to my eyes a similar face and expression.

Ah, Q!!! He was my favourite character on Star Trek, played by John Delancie (sp?). Always loved him. Also liked him when he appeared on Voyager as well, hitting on Capt. Janeway.

Hmmm... lets see what I can dig up to stir things up in here some more... ;D

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bamccaig
Neil Roy said:

Ah, Q!!! He was my favourite character on Star Trek, played by John Delancie (sp?).

Q was an appreciated character for his stir of things, but I think you'd have to be mentally unstable to pick him as your favorite. :P He was a menace. He punished people without just cause. Effectively, he was your god without the "implied" justice. Effectively, little more than a criminal with superior power. If you justify his actions then you can't deny the actions of a powerful crime lord. For all intents and purposes, Q executed his actions for fun and personal enjoyment, and the only saving grace in the context of the show was Picard or Janeway pleading for his mercy. But that's a pretty disgraceful excuse for such a powerful being. Ultimately, ST:VOY demonstrated that Q was virtually clueless about the universe and even needed humanity to even keep the Q continuum intact. If anything, the entire idea of Q is the anti-thesis to any kind of "god". It was the idea that, as powerful and wise as Q thought he was (effectively, as powerful as the Christian god), he ultimately didn't know as much as he thought he did and was ultimately a chaotic force in the universe with little or no wisdom guiding it.

Neil Roy

bam... it was a TV show... only TV... not reality. But yes, DEFINITELY my favourite character, played perfectly. In many of the stories he actually helped. In the final two episodes of TNG, he actually was a huge help in a problem the captain caused.

But... IT... IS... ONLY... FICTION... it's not real... I love him, lots of laughs. John played him perfectly. My wife and I both loved all the episodes with him in it, especially on Star Trek Voyager (my favourite ST series), like when he appeared in bed with the captain. ;D

You people need to lighten up!

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Edit: as for your comments about the God I believe in, I don't see what in fuck that has to do with a damn TV show! Get a life!

Elias
bamccaig said:

Q was an appreciated character for his stir of things, but I think you'd have to be mentally unstable to pick him as your favorite.

Never thought I'd have anything in common with Neil - but he was my favorite character as well! In a way he was the driving force behind the entire show - doesn't he even appear in the very first episode?

The episode where he changes the past so Picard would not have had the accident causing him to get an artificial heart is just genius.

Edgar Reynaldo
Neil Roy said:

It was obviously one of those moments when the baby grabbed the cat and the parents found the pose cute. You need to see the cuteness and humour in this, not your secret fantasies. :P

Yes. How cute. Someone else's naked child and a caption stating he's sodomizing an animal. How cute. Sorry but I don't find naked children appealing. Dr. Spock does not approve of your depraved sense of humor.

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Neil Roy
Elias said:

Never thought I'd have anything in common with Neil - but he was my favorite character as well! In a way he was the driving force behind the entire show - doesn't he even appear in the very first episode?

Actually, you're right. Q was in the very first episode, putting the human race on trial, and the final episode that you mentioned was the conclusion to that trial if you watch it. That was the last episode(s) of the series. So you make a good point.

In any event, I take real life seriously, not fiction on TV. When I can find something on Star Trek my wife likes too, when she normally hates the show, that's a good thing! And I got her to like Voyager (the only one she likes) and Q so. I don't honestly know how anyone could not like him, John DeLancie played him perfectly with lots of laughs.

Yes. How cute. Someone else's naked child and a caption stating he's sodomizing an animal. How cute. Sorry but I don't find naked children appealing. Dr. Spock does not approve of your depraved sense of humor.

Sorry, butt, I found it funny. It was meant as humour for obvious reasons.

As for Spock... he's a fictional character. And I don't seek approval anyhow, I found it funny whether you liked it or not. Bu-bye! ;D

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Edgar Reynaldo

Well, Neil, the point is, not everyone has the same sense of humor you do. In fact I find most of what you've posted so far rather crude. In one end out the other I guess.

bamccaig

I mostly agree with Neil's humor in this thread to my surprise. That said, Q is not meant to be a likable character. He's an asshole. You grow to like him over time, as you realize he isn't going to actually destroy the crew or ship, but you still don't like him, as doesn't either captain. The actor, of course, does a wonderful job portraying him, and for that I give kudos. The character is a misguided prick.

Eric Johnson

Toys R Us is filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy in the US. I don't wanna grow up. I'm a Toys R Us kid. :(

bamccaig

Toys today are shit. There's no imagination left. They all take 8 batteries every 4 hours, and they tell you what you're playing. It's no fun. My young nephew just pulls you to his toy room and says, "I have this, and this, and this, and this, ..." He doesn't really play with any of it. It's fucking depressing. I used to ignore what the character was on an action figure and invent my own self, and play for hours... No batteries required.

Anybody ever have those matchcar town play mats as kids? Basically it was a little mat with a mini town on it with roads that fit your toy cars. Just a generic town. No branding. Mostly roads. There were all the essentials. A store, a police station, fire station, etc. Thing is, they still make these today, but now the buildings are so 3D that the buildings are 60-80% of the mat. There are just a few crappy loops around it. How the Hell is a kid supposed to imagine a story out of that? Most of the mat caters to the one part of the equation he has no avatar for: people outside of cars. And you can't go inside buildings really. That's all just imaginary. Factor in the fact that most kids are playing with iPhones and Androids at 8 months of age and have the attention span of a rock. They don't have imaginations anymore.

It's just a very sad world. No wonder toy stores are suffering. They don't sell good toys anymore.

Eric Johnson

I think the cause of the bankruptcy can be pinned on a general struggle to compete online with the likes of Amazon more than anything else.

While on the subject of toys, I remember buying a Red Power Ranger action figure when I was five. It even included a motorcycle for the figure to ride on. It was awesome. I spent so many hours making up stories with it, imagining it doing jumps and tricks off of buildings, etc. It required no batteries, which was great. I wonder whatever happened to it... Strange how things that once meant a lot to you can fade into obscurity as you age. :-/

bamccaig

Append:

When and if I have kids they won't be getting electronic toys. They'll get non-electronic toys that don't light up, make sounds, or anything like that. You have to imagine the magic. Your imagination will do way better than $70 at a toy store ever could. The real fun is in the imagination. They also won't be playing with any mobile phones, tablets, or computers until they're a little bit older. I loved playing NES when I was 4 or 5, but in hindsight I'm not sure that it encouraged the best me that I could be. Fortunately my parents limited my usage of it, though to get around their rules I'd usually wake up quietly at like 5 or 6 AM to go play.

I'm on the fence about letting my kids play video games. I don't think video games are themselves harmful, though I think in this world kids don't use their imagination enough. Similar to the toys, the games are so detailed that they kind of make it hard to imagine your own story (I remember identifying this problem even in my teen years where certain games were sort of locked down to the developer's narrative). As a child and teen I played Driver on PlayStation countless times in free-mode imagining my own story. While it would probably have been far more beneficial to just go play with friends and learn social skills, I think that playing games that don't even afford you the freedom to reinvent the story would be even worse than if you were playing games that were loosely enough structured to let you imagine your own game within them.

Insert: I should emphasize that I think that the right video games would encourage the imagination to develop and grow, but video games don't encourage social skills. That's where I am lacking, and I can't be sure if it's my nature or if it was influenced by my exposure to computers growing up from a young age. Part of me thinks that playing video games did somewhat hinder my social development, but at the same time, they also made up in some ways for what wasn't there for one reason or another. You can always introduce your kids to video games if you discover them naturally lacking social skills. :P I've noticed "social" people don't play video games the way that I do, and while I insist that they're wrong and stupid and ugly for it, I can see how it would be beneficial for my kids to have better social skills than I do, perhaps at the expense of being (brace yourself) less of a geek. :-X

Perhaps that could be inspiration to some of the game designers on these message boards. As important as immersion is for a good game, a really useful thing to achieve is a game that doesn't get in a child's way if they start to imagine their own game out of it (i.e., the game behaves in a predictable way that the child can build on, and doesn't necessarily break the immersion of their imaginary game either). Even if it's just a special free game mode like Driver had I think it's important to have.

Neil Roy
bamccaig said:

When and if I have kids they won't be getting electronic toys.

Some of my favourite toys as a child were the leggos and a mechano set, things where you are creative. I think they make the best toys for a child. Nothing electric, helps them become creative. I didn't have a lot of them though, my friends and I used to like creating our own things.

My father bought me a Radio Shack 200-n-1 electronic kits which I recall liking so much i took it to camp with me! ;D... it taught you about electronics and you built your own things with it by wiring up various components. That love of electronics is what lead to computer programming later on.

I think the best toys are ones that encourage creativity, preferably non-violent.

I like what John Romero did with his son, he taught him to program and helped his son create a video game. If my wife and I could have children (we can't) that would be one option I would pursue.

Well, Neil, the point is, not everyone has the same sense of humor you do.

I tell you what, in the interest of peace and happiness, I'll tone it down a bit. Perhaps I have been too crass. <shrug> I have a strong sense of humour though, anyone that knows me, knows I laugh a lot and love to joke around, I try not to get too serious (except about certain topics I feel strongly about of course). Anyhow... I'll put on my serious face...

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Eric Johnson

So I tried out Microsoft Edge today. It works pretty well, but it has loads of input lag when trying to play games written in JavaScript. Keyboard inputs sometimes get stuck or don't even register at all. It's abysmal. Granted, I'm using Edge 38, so maybe this is fixed in Edge 40. But holy cow, I can't believe they'd screw up something simple like event listeners. :o

Neil Roy

Woohoo! I survived September 23rd! ;D

I think I need a T-Shirt with that on it.

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Woohoo! I survived September 23rd! ;D

Still an hour to go for me. :-/

ZoriaRPG

I also agree. Some of is occasionally have things come up in life that prevents us from checking in regularly.

Why are threads locking on their own anyway? Can't thread locks be done by moderators, or by OPs?

Can someone unlock this for us, please:

https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/616990/2

I would rather respond to things [b]in that thread[/b] than start a new, pointless thread.

Edgar Reynaldo

Threads automatically lock after one week of inactivity. Two if you're in the right board(s).

Neil Roy

;D

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Edgar Reynaldo

What, there was an apocalypse and I missed it? Dang, not again.

Satan comes first kiddos. ;) Then Jesus.

Neil Roy

What, there was an apocalypse and I missed it? Dang, not again.

Yeah, there was another one for September 23rd (search Youtube). There was also one for Sept 23, 2015 if you remember that, to do with the "four blood moons", I called that a false prophecy back then and again this time. This time they were mixing astrology with the Bible which I found unbelievable.

Anyhow, seen that pic posted and I got a kick out of it. I want a T-shirt that says "I survived September 23rd... again" ;)

Polybios

I love this quote:

This is the age of protected feelings purchased at the cost of permanent infantilization.

Chris Katko

I really do feel like the public (perhaps after growing up in an age of "everyone is a winner") has become adult infants.

And the stats basically prove it. Millennials "move out", "lose their virginity" and "do drugs" all less than the previous generation. I'm all for "not doing drugs" but basically being afraid of the world--except through a computer screen--does not make a healthy long-term, fulfilling life.

Perhaps that's why they're so angry. They've thrown away everything the previous generation held sacred, and then became frustrated when there was nothing left.

Gideon Weems

That was a worthwhile read, Polybios. I was disappointed, however, when the author acknowledged journalism's unique importance in the private sector (as opposed to "trucking or food services," which tend not to influence public opinion) but immediately doused it with a couple of lame jokes. (Furthermore, I would argue that food services greatly affect public opinion regarding health matters.) The author then goes on to beseech journalists to solve the problem by performing their duties responsibly... but without having freed journalism from capitalistic influence (profitability via "high-carb, low-protein populist pap"), how is this supposed to make a difference? The author's call to arms is tantamount to asking nicely, and I can't seem to remember the last time the free market chose "asking nicely" over money.

Codification of logical debate, exercised as part of grade school curriculum, would better benefit society--codification being important, as teachers themselves often succumb to fallacy. Such a generation would have a better chance growing up with an appetite for meaningful journalism (as opposed to empty "identity politics") and might actually support meaningful journalism through capitalism, as opposed to against it in an unending, uphill battle.

Otherwise, you have to topple capitalism itself, as capitalism--by definition--follows money. Pretending it might do otherwise brings about no change and does more harm than good, like telling a cancer patient to get plenty of sleep instead of removing the tumor.

Eric Johnson

No replies in nearly three whole days? :o We're getting lazy. :-/

Chris Katko

The Orville is amazing. Episode 3 is EXACTLY like one of the best TNG episodes. Episode 4 is pretty good but more predictable.

Bruce Perry

I was supposed to be climbing Kilimanjaro now, but a slight condition has prevented me :(

On the plus side, I had occasion to fly with easyJet again, and apart from the airport being harder to get to, it's soooooo much better than Ryanair in every other way. Cuter planes, better seat material, better support, brighter and more spacious interior, better window height, better sound insulation, smoother operation, crew happy enough to socialise with each other, no stupid landing jingle... :)

Speaking of the journey to the airport, a lovely old lady at a bus stop said to another lovely old lady that it was sunny, wasn't it, and a tall, thin, confident guy with a slightly great big bushy goatee, short hair pointing upwards and sunglasses on top said it's because of global climate change, nice that people are finally noticing, and wrong that everyone is supporting all these f%&#ing governments. He was very keen to point out that he's a roofer (he was clearly very proud of this) and he noticed it too. I told him I didn't think we had a choice, did we, and asked what he would do? He paused and then told me, "To be honest, you seem a little camp, mate, to be having a conversation with me." It was a little threatening in the moment, but as soon as he was gone, it was hilarious. He definitely seemed a few tiles short of a roof to me. I've met bad roofers before too - what is it with roofers?!

Chris Katko

I would have thought two nice old ladies talking about the weather, then a guy going "It's cuz GLOBAL WARMMMIINNGNG gashghghingnggG" would have been a richard in that scenario...

Neil Roy

Blade Runner 2049 in four days, woohoo!

Chris Katko

I'm super hopeful it doesn't suck.

bamccaig

The Orville is amazing. Episode 3 is EXACTLY like one of the best TNG episodes. Episode 4 is pretty good but more predictable.

Thanks for reminding me about this! I was able to watch the first episode online last night. I was excited about this for two reasons: brand new "Star Trek" esque series that actually shows promise, and Seth MacFarlane behind it. The first episode was great, and I'm excited for more. I'm stuck watching the advertising on the stream so hopefully the network/show is getting funding from that because I want it to succeed and go on for many seasons.

VPN + location emulation in Chrome FTW.

Speaking of the journey to the airport, a lovely old lady at a bus stop said to another lovely old lady that it was sunny, wasn't it, and a tall, thin, confident guy with a slightly great big bushy goatee, short hair pointing upwards and sunglasses on top said it's because of global climate change, nice that people are finally noticing, and wrong that everyone is supporting all these f%&#ing governments. He was very keen to point out that he's a roofer (he was clearly very proud of this) and he noticed it too. I told him I didn't think we had a choice, did we, and asked what he would do? He paused and then told me, "To be honest, you seem a little camp, mate, to be having a conversation with me." It was a little threatening in the moment, but as soon as he was gone, it was hilarious. He definitely seemed a few tiles short of a roof to me. I've met bad roofers before too - what is it with roofers?!

I had to Google what "camp" means in British slang, but I'd have to agree. You do seem a little "camp". :P Though I'm not sure why that matters to have a conversation with you. ??? You should have just said you're a classical musician! :P

Gideon Weems

To be honest, you seem a little camp, mate, to be having a conversation with me.

Achievement unlocked: "Unabashed British Altercation"

Supposedly one of the world's smartest people worked as a bouncer for most of his career. That is either one notch below or above roofing, depending on who you ask. It behooves us to respect speakers and disregard irrelevant details. I agree that governments are atrocities.

bamccaig

This so called "one of the smartest people in the world" apparently dropped out of college because he thought he was smarter than his professors, and worked most of his life doing menial jobs.. As you said, mostly being a bouncer. His great achievement is an obscurely worded description of the universe which believes is both physical and "mental". Basically, he believes he can prove God exists. Sounds like a fraud to me. It would be something if other demonstrably smart people thought he was really smart, but I haven't seen any evidence of this. Seems like more of a publicity stunt, or maybe a generally smart guy let it go to his head and stuck his head up his own ass. :P

Eric Johnson

Turnip or radish? Which one's better?

bamccaig

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Edgar Reynaldo

Obviously it's turnip. Because if you're dyslexic it looks like Trump.

Bruce Perry
bamccaig said:

I had to Google what "camp" means in British slang, but I'd have to agree. You do seem a little "camp". :P

That wasn't a very nice thing to say, you know.

Chris Katko

Clearly the answer is: Trump

Eric Johnson

Who would win in a fight: Edgar Reynaldo or Chris Katko?

bamccaig

That wasn't a very nice thing to say, you know.

I'm sorry. :-/ Well I didn't mean it in the insulting way. Just that the description that I read probably fits to a degree (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Forgive me? :-*

Chris Katko

Who would win in a fight: Edgar Reynaldo or Chris Katko?

I fight dirty.

Eric Johnson

I fight dirty.

I don't know, man. My money's on Edgar. ::)

Edgar Reynaldo

All I know are killing techniques. :/ I refuse to fight.

Eric Johnson

All I know are killing techniques. :/ I refuse to fight.

It'll be a death match then.

Chris Katko

Chris 'Deathwish' Katko reporting for duty.

Heh ... duty....

Actually, I don't recall anywhere where Edgar and I said anything against each other that might spark said fight. Is this just a random celebrity battle?

Eric Johnson

Is this just a random celebrity battle?

Pretty much. :P

bamccaig

Bump because I was going to post in this thread to keep it alive, but realized that my response is perhaps too much of a "spoiler" while also being too provocative to not expect a discussion after which might spoil the spoilers.. So I'll move that to its own thread, and just bump this one. >:(

jmasterx

Guys, we totally missed this thread's 2 year anniversary on the 26th! No one even posted in this thread that day! >:(

Eric Johnson
jmasterx said:

Guys, we totally missed this thread's 2 year anniversary on the 26th! No one even posted in this thread that day! >:(

Do you know nothing about respect? We honored this thread's anniversary by having a day of silence. >:(

jmasterx

Do you know nothing about respect? We honored this thread's anniversary by having a day of silence. >:(

You're missing the whole point of this thread. We will not be silenced. We will be heard! Our thread lock policies will be put in place! We will not be silenced by the almighty Dr. Leverton! We will have our voices heard. We will rise above and end this threading nightmare once and for all. We are the rebellion. We are the only hope for change in this forum. We will not be monitored and locked like a bunch of shared resources! >:(

#UnlockAllegro

jmasterx

Do you know nothing about respect? We honored this thread's anniversary by having a day of silence. >:(

You're missing the whole point of this thread. We will not be silenced. We will be heard! Our thread lock policies will be put in place! We will not be silenced by the almighty Dr. Leverton! We will have our voices heard. We will rise above and end this threading nightmare once and for all. We are the rebellion. We are the only hope for change in this forum. We will not be monitored and locked like a bunch of shared resources! >:(

#NoMoreLocks

jmasterx

Do you know nothing about respect? We honored this thread's anniversary by having a day of silence. >:(

You're missing the whole point of this thread. We will not be silenced. We will be heard! Our thread lock policies will be put in place! We will not be silenced by the almighty Dr. Leverton! We will have our voices heard. We will rise above and end this threading nightmare once and for all. We are the rebellion. We are the only hope for change in this forum. We will not be monitored and locked like a bunch of shared resources! >:(

Chris Katko

That was a great joke. I chuckled.

Neil Roy

Seen Blade Runner 2049, 2 hours and 44mins long movie and not a boring moment in it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The trailers didn't give away the plot either, in fact, I felt they cleverly disguised it.

Chris Katko

YES. I was hoping so much it'd be good! I can't wait now!

Onewing

I'm hearing good things about Blade Runner too. I haven't seen the first one. Should I do that first?

Chris Katko

It's amazing. I'd definitely watch it. And it's the same character from the original, so it's gonna be pretty helpful to see the original first.

Eric Johnson

Nice double post there, jmasterx. ;)

Edgar Reynaldo

Wow Eric. ::)

You pissed him off so much he triple posted. 8-)

Eric Johnson
Edgar Reynaldo said:

Wow Eric. ::)

You pissed him off so much he triple posted. 8-)

Oh man, I didn't even notice the third one. :o I'm a terrible person. :-/

Neil Roy

I think you could probably get away with watching this one without knowing the original. There's not too much to know from the original that isn't covered in this.

TO be honest, the original had much less of a plot, basically certain models of replicants are banned on Earth (the ones from the first movie), only in off world colonies are they allowed at all as they rebelled.

What is a replicant? I heard some people talking and calling them Robots after the movie. While the analogy of a robot is close, they are the same as you and I, only they are genetically designed and "constructed" somehow and are "born" fully adult. The latest model (8) can be "programmed" for specific purposes and obey the owner. Even if the owner commands it to kill itself. Most people on Earth can't stand them and refer to them as "skinjobs".

In the original movie, Deckard (Harrison Ford's character) is a detective assigned to what is called the "Blade Runner" unit whose sole task is to track down and "retire" (kill) rogue replicants that are on Earth. The original tries to make you feel sympathetic to the replicants, but I never felt that way as they murdered many innocent people. They tend to lack normal human emotions like empathy and compassion. And the original models rebelled. The new models in the new movie are less likely to rebel and more obedient, at least... that is how they were designed.

The plot in the new one involves an aspect I never even considered to do with replicants, but I won't spoil it. :)

I hear a lot about how great the original was, and it was! But honestly, the original plot was fairly simple. Hunt down the replicants and retire them before they kill you and anyone else. That's it. The new movie has a more involved plot I felt. The graphics were fricken amazing I thought, a ruined Las Vegas (like what you seen in the trailer, only MUCH more in the movie of course) looked amazing I thought.

Anyhow... not giving away anything with this post. I loved it, but then again, I don't tend to be too critical of movies, I get serious about real life and tend to focus on the good points in a movie.

Edit: as a side note to the original, if you can see the original THEATRICAL VERSION, you will get MUCH more insight into what is going on. You may end up preferring the Director's Cut which is more commonly available these days, it cut out narration from Harrison Ford which was sort of like an old '50s detective show where you get the detective's thoughts while watching him. Some like it, some do not, I'll not bash either, I happen to like it. But you WILL get more information if you hear it, then maybe watch the Director's Cut and make up your own mind. Also the original ending is cut out of the Director's Cut (it's called a "CUT" for a reason), which I also preferred and I feel ties in closely and is important for this new movie for reasons I won't get into (so as not to spoil anything).

I have an old VHS tape of the original theatrical version. I won't buy the director's cut, can't stand it (again, not bashing you if you like it, I just personally do not, to each his own).

Edgar Reynaldo

If that's a spoiler, keep it somewhere else. I haven't seen it yet. >:(

Bruce Perry

The first sentence was useful, because I was wondering whether I need to obtain the original post-haste :)

Chris Katko

Quick! Keep posting so his post and spoilers will be on a previous page!

Neil Roy

What spoiler?! If I posted a spoiler I would use spoiler tags, you guys are retarded.

I think I'll stay away from this site for a long while, getting annoying. Enjoy.

Chris Katko

You've been taking stuff too seriously lately. :) It's not like 10 people shot down all your points and humiliated you, or 20 downvotes, or a mod abused his powers.

I saw spoiler and that movie is important to me so I'm being extra careful to not spoil it.

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

What spoiler?! If I posted a spoiler I would use spoiler tags, you guys are retarded.

Who are you calling retarded?! >:(

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:P

bamccaig

I read through Neil's posts. He didn't spoil anything (as far as I could tell), and was even conscious not to. ::)

Chris Katko

I think this is a conspiracy and you're all trying to get me to spoil my movie.

Eric Johnson

In the movie, people run from blades... probably.

Chris Katko

DAMN IT ALL TO HELL! >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(

DanielH

Don't forget the love story between Harrison's character and a replicant. Also, I think they want you to wonder if he is a replicant himself.

I recently watched the original again. To me, it's just a bit hokey.

Neil Roy

Who are you calling retarded?! >:(

Sorry, you're special. As in... olympics. :P

In the movie, people run from blades... probably.

;D. Yeah, that's it. Actually, it is the name of the police unit assigned to "retiring" (killing) replicants (genetically designed people, created as full adults, often superior in strength or some other ability, used as a sort of slave labour) that are illegally on Earth (legal in offworld colonies). Called the "Blade Runner Unit".

The new movie is far superior over the original in my own opinion. Which is rare for a sequel.

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

The new movie is far superior over the original in my own opinion. Which is rare for a sequel.

Shrek 2 was pretty good.

Neil Roy

Shrek 2 was pretty good.

Never seen that movie, 1 or 2, except parts of it I think at a friend's place. Looked interesting. I generally like computer animated movies.

Eric Johnson
Neil Roy said:

Never seen that movie, 1 or 2, except parts of it I think at a friend's place. Looked interesting. I generally like computer animated movies.

You should watch at least the first two. I liked them.

So the town I grew up in is on fire right now. :-/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8SIMFcZ2vA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bYu649MuQo

bamccaig

I'm sorry to hear that. :( I wasn't aware of this until I followed your links.

Chris Katko

Glad you're not in it now. :( There's been like 15 dead so far.

Then again (not to be morbid or anything), any disaster, somebody always manages to find a way to die. For example, "It's hot out today" = "20 dead." somehow.

Eric Johnson

Then again (not to be morbid or anything), any disaster, somebody always manages to find a way to die. For example, "It's hot out today" = "20 dead." somehow.

Yeah, that's true. People die every day. Still, it sucks to see businesses and neighborhoods you once frequented become ash and rubble. I checked in with some of my friends who still live there, and the ones who got back to me say they're okay. Still waiting to hear from a few others though.

Chris Katko

Hope everything works out. :-/

Bruce Perry

Pro tip: don't watch the Final Destination films immediately prior to reading the above posts :-X

Onewing
bamccaig

From the looks of it that thread was only revived once with only a handful of posts (unless ML deleted other posts?). Seems like a bit of an overreaction. :P

Chris Katko

I honestly recall overreactions happening at least a few times back-in-the-day.

Edgar Reynaldo

This is actual code. I shit you not.

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Bruce Perry

Written by a smoker. They'll tell you they're quitting but they know they aren't, so they stay stuck in the loop for ever. :)

Edgar Reynaldo

I always think while not quite (done yet) {do();}

Chris Katko

I'm at a loss. What's wrong with it?

(Except for the fact you're not using Whitesmith's style. ;) )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentation_style#Whitesmiths_style

Edgar Reynaldo

Well it took me a week's worth work to find it. Last place I ever thought to look.

Neil Roy

Written by a smoker. They'll tell you they're quitting but they know they aren't, so they stay stuck in the loop for ever. :)

Except in this case, it will exit right away without ever running through the loop (`quit` is set to true).

I'm at a loss. What's wrong with it?

well they set quit = true then they exit the loop if quit is not false. The program won't go through the loop even once, it will just exit right away.

quit should be set to false when it is initialized.

The only way I could see doing this without changing quit initialization, would be to use a do while loop so it is run at least once, and perhaps change quit in the loop if needed.

Well it took me a week's worth work to find it. Last place I ever thought to look.

It's always the little things that take the longest to spot.

Edgar Reynaldo

Stupid windows kept vanishing right after they were created. :P x;D

Neil Roy

LMAO ;D

bamccaig
Neil Roy said:

It's always the little things that take the longest to spot.

Disagreed. The little things take longer than they should to spot, but the big things are much more difficult to reason about. :) Threads and race conditions and things of that nature.

Bruce Perry

Yeah, I spotted the fact that it would exit immediately - my post was a joke, admittedly a terrible one, to try to justify why the code might be written that way ;)

I suspect this bug could have been found very quickly with the help of a debugger - just step through from the beginning and see what it does. If you don't have a debugger set up, then get one set up :)

Edgar Reynaldo

I kept looking for things that would make it break out of the loop, like if the thread should stop, or if it received a close event, but the loop never actually ran. Real WTF for ya.

bamccaig

Those are difficult to reason about. When the seemingly "impossible" occurs. When you're certain that a block of code must be reached, but the debugger shows it skipped over. I think there's circuitry in our brains that make us susceptible to the notion of "supernatural" occurrences. When these "paradoxes" occur the logical thing is to realize that our assumptions are wrong and reassess our understanding of the program, but often we just scratch our heads and think "WTF, this can't happen, even though it does!" instead. These are the moments where telling just about anybody else about it will immediately solve the problem: either you'll realize, hold on, maybe my assumption is wrong, or the other person will ask questions trying to understand what you're talking about that force you to discover it by mistake.

jmasterx
bamccaig said:

Those are difficult to reason about. When the seemingly "impossible" occurs. When you're certain that a block of code must be reached, but the debugger shows it skipped over. I think there's circuitry in our brains that make us susceptible to the notion of "supernatural" occurrences. When these "paradoxes" occur the logical thing is to realize that our assumptions are wrong and reassess our understanding of the program, but often we just scratch our heads and think "WTF, this can't happen, even though it does!" instead. These are the moments where telling just about anybody else about it will immediately solve the problem: either you'll realize, hold on, maybe my assumption is wrong, or the other person will ask questions trying to understand what you're talking about that force you to discover it by mistake.

Wrong. All processor manufactures have just implemented their instruction set incorrectly resulting in your software misbehaving.

As a result you as a developer are stuck making compromises for their petty mistakes and oversights
When you discuss it with someone, all they're doing is telling you from their experience how they got around the processor manufacturing defects. >:(

Edgar Reynaldo

Jeez. Someone's bitter. Bad hardware?

Chris Katko

I suspect this bug could have been found very quickly with the help of a debugger - just step through from the beginning and see what it does. If you don't have a debugger set up, then get one set up :)

Yeah, that definitely seems like a case for the step functionality of a debugger if you're going in blind and have no idea why.

Also, both many static analyzers and whatever Visual Studio's IDE is, would have caught that. VS would have said "warning: this code can never be reached." (Actually, don't many compilers say that with -Wall?)

And many linters/static analyzers will actually read things like variable names and their initial values and say "Are you sure this is what you meant?". Like creating an integer but calling it test_float.

They also do this amazing case:

for(int i=0;i<my_long1.thing_dot.count();i++)
for(int j=0;j<my_long2.thing_dot.count();i++)
for(int k=0;k<my_long3.thing_dot.count();k++)
for(int l=0;l<my_long4.thing_dot.count();l++)
{
access_my_thing[i][j][k][l];
}

As well as:

for(int i=0; i<100; i++)
for(int j=0; j<100; j++)
{
my_data[1][j].access.here();
}

And a huge swath of other things, many major, but also many minor ones that your eye tricks you into missing by autocorrecting.

Edgar Reynaldo

To all those suggesting I use a debugger - I do! -Wall does NOT warn about while (false).

But somethings are harder to step through when you have an interactive program.

In this case, I was spawning a new thread that creates a window and draws to it, but the window kept closing as soon as it was opened. Which made me think it was getting a close event. Or the thread was signaled to stop for some reason. I thought for sure it was one of the loop's break conditions getting triggered.

bamccaig

But somethings are harder to step through when you have an interactive program.

QFT.

Edgar Reynaldo

In all honesty, if I had set a breakpoint in bad_thread and stepped through it I would have found it right away.

Chris Katko

The thing is, it may be a simple error, but it's realizing WHERE the error is, as well as WHAT the error is. That is, it could be a simple error to fix, but the EFFECTS you're using to diagnose it may be very confusing or even misleading from the true problem. Easiest example is re-using memory / pointer abuse for newbies where the crash occurs FAR away from the actual pointer and goes away when they change seemingly (an actually) unrelated lines of code that just so happen to move the memory order slightly to add or remove the crash.

All yesterday I was working with a co-worker on some "should have been simple" code with two listboxes bound to SQL data. It kept giving us problem after problem. Data didn't move over like it should. Some rows would. Some rows would only not move in some other cases. It made no sense.

Actually, we finally thought we fixed it, and demo'd it to the client at quitting time... and lo and behold I committed the mortal sin. Showing a client a slightly different test case that we didn't test before hand (even though I had my co-worker test many cases this one slight case we didn't--that "shouldn't" have mattered). It managed to have a new glitch. DOH.

All rows moved, worked. No rows moved, worked. Some rows, worked. HOWEVER, we selected (for the heck of it) all rows with similar names all related to a single company (multiple locations) and then it glitches and my heart sinks.

I mean, the guy didn't care that much, but still, I wanted to beat .NET with a rusty hammer.

p.s. If you read Hacker News or Slashdot, people have been saying "I wonder if it'd be better in Rust" so often, it's become an meme. Any time anyone mentions ANY security, pointer, or performance flaw, some idiot will invariably chime in "I wonder if a Rust implementation of the [discussion topic] would be better." They literally said that about the Linux Kernel. Ugh. Kids these days. So this thread reminded me that. That if we were talking about Eagle on Hacker News they'd be like "omg, you'd never have crashes... logic errors... or any error at all if you just used Rust. kthxbye"

Neil Roy

I rarely use a debugger. When I want to know if a program reached a specific point, I just throw in a few printf("Program reached line %n\n", __LINE__);... works well. I'm low tech that way. ;)

Bruce Perry

SiegeLord is our resident Rust expert, but he hasn't posted in this thread and probably never will. I'm curious as to whether there's any merit to those memetic comments. I guess one day I'll probably try it myself :)

jmasterx

Jeez. Someone's bitter. Bad hardware?

No, it was a joke, but maybe it did not sound that way :P

bamccaig

I'm curious as to whether there's any merit to those memetic comments.

Google has no idea what