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Chrysler's view on Global Warming..
Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Quote:

Has any of you seen the movie Idiocracy [imdb.com]?

Nope, but it sounds hilarious. I'll watch it tomorrow when the download is complete. ;D

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After a parent who supports the teaching of creationism and opposes sex education complained about the film

I love how the article reads like a joke, but it's actually serious...I think. Every time he is quoted this guy is stating his beliefs and I laugh out loud. Is that normal?

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Kauhiz
Member #4,798
July 2004

Quote:

Is that normal?

Is it normal that people in news articles are laughable or is it normal to laugh at this guy? If you meant the latter, then yes, its perfectly normal. I'd be worried if I didn't laugh at stuff like this.

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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Another interesting movie: Jesus Camp

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In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

SonShadowCat
Member #1,548
September 2001
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Think of the bright side, what better way to test humanity's worthiness to survive than a great cataclysm.

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Cow flatuance is a significant source of greenhouse gases

The quote reminded me of this recent kiwi cartoon...

{"name":"591004","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/e\/fe5af371558bfaac5a3dca41ad36e139.jpg","w":436,"h":340,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/e\/fe5af371558bfaac5a3dca41ad36e139"}591004

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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It's like peanut butter and chocolate, aquariums and toilets ....

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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote:

he quote reminded me of this recent kiwi cartoon...

Yeah, Tremain is brilliant. Sometimes he's the only reason I read the paper.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Quote:

Then there'd be even more cows! And I'd be out of a job.

The vegans keep yammering about "killing innocent animals", but they fail to recogninze how those millions of cows wouldn't have grazed at all without market forces paying for their pastures. Without the beef industry, there'd be a few hundred aurouchs wandering around in the Middle East, period.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Andrei Ellman
Member #3,434
April 2003

I'm feeling too lazy to read through this entire thread, so instead, I thought I'd post a collection of counter-arguments to arguments commonly spouted out by so-called 'global warming skeptics'.

+ Global warming will make the winters more bearable.
- But what about the summers?

+ But global warming will eliminate the cold and miserable weather.
- That's a selfish viewpoint. Remember - this is global. Turning a frozen tundra into fertile plains would mean fertile plains become a desert. Global climate change in a short period can cause untold damage to ecosystems that have adapted to the climate over thousands of years.

+ Thinking that humans can change the climate is arrogance?
- Since when has being worried about the future of the planet been considered arrogance? It sounds more like concern to me.

+ Human activity produces insignificant ammounts of CO2 compared to volcanism, etc.
- It's all about balance. Earth's natural CO2 reducing mechanism has fine tuned itself to match the natural CO2 levels. This means that even a relatively small increase in the CO2 level could mean a massive increase in the net CO2 that is too much for the natural CO2 reducing mechanism to cope with untill it's too late.

+ Records show that at various stages in the past (eg. the medieval warm-period, before the last ice-age, the Eocene Climatic Optimum, etc.) the temperasture is warmer than what it is now, and look - the planet's still here.
- As well as the temperature difference, there's also the rate of temperature change to take into account. For example, the increase of temperature after the last ice-age some 10000 years ago happened over about 2000 years, giving the ecosystems plenty of time to adapt. We don't know how well they can cope with a rapid climatic shift. If the climatic zones slowly move away from the equator, the wildlife moves along with the zone. Even trees can move (by planting the seeds of their offspring beyond the old border for their climate) - now try doing that if the climate-zones move too fast. And besides, every time in the past there's been a climate-shift, there's also been a mass extinction, and quite frankly, we don't need another mass-extinction.

+ But if weather forecasters have trouble predicting the weather two days in advance, how are we going to trust someone who claims to know what the weather is going to be like 50 years from now?
- Climatology is a different science from meteorology. Meteorology is meant to predict very specific weather-events in very precice location. Climatology is meant to predict long-term trends over a wide area. Climatology can make an attempt to predict the average temperature 50 years from now, but cannot predict the temperature on a specific day 5 years from now.

+ First, you said the planet would freeze, then you said global warming is going to happen, and then you said it was going to freeze again. Make up your minds!
- As time goes on, the climate models become more and more accurate. Because of chaos theory, even slight variations in the model can lead to radically different results. Also, bear in mind that global warming could cause the gulf-stream to shut down which will plunce North-West Europe into coldness. This is because of increased freshwater contributed by the three major Russian rivers that flow into the Arctic ocean which would increase their flow due to melting glaciers. But one thing is certain - it's best not to mess with the planet.

+ If climate models of today are better than predictions in the '70s, why should we believe them when they say global warming is happening?
- Who's to say that an even more accutate climate model is going to say that it's all going to be fine? But in the meantime, it is a good idea to be concerned.

+ If global warming is going to happen, it's God's will and we shouldn't intefere.
- Consider switching religions :) . But seriously, stop and think about how you interpret your religion. Is everything to be taken at face value? Is this part of the underlying philosophy?

+ But reducing CO2 emissions will harm the economy.
- Global warming will harm it more. The climate shift will play havoc with agriculture, and bear in mind that many of the major cities of the world are on the coast. And besides, once alternative energy-technologies like solar power have matured, the economy will be back to normal.

+ But our country only accounts for a tiny fraction of CO2 emissions.
- Hopefully, if your country takes an initiative, it may inspire other countries to follow suit. If a majority of countries follow suit, import-tariffs can be placed on goods that do not follow suit.

+ Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill.
- I'm sorry, but that's just selfishness.

While it has not conclusively been proven that the manmade CO2 increase is going to have a siginificant climate impact, we should consider the risk. The following ASCII diagram sums up te situation.

                                        We do something     We do nothing
                                        
                                     +-------------------+-----------------+
                                     |                   |                 |
CO2 does not lead to climate change  |   Everything OK   |  Everything OK  |
                                     |                   |                 |
                                     +-------------------+-----------------+
                                     |                   |                 |
CO2 leads to climate change          |   Everything OK   |  We're gakked!  |
                                     |                   |                 |
                                     +-------------------+-----------------+

As you can see, there are two variables. Whether or not CO2 leads to climate change, and whether or not we're going to do anything about it. The role of CO2 is unknown so the state of that variable could be anywhere. However, the whether-or-not-we-do-something variable is something that we have control over. Doing nothing would place us in the right column in the diagram, and if CO2 does lead to climate change, untold damage will be done to our lovely planet.

I don't think it's worth taking the risk of hoping that our selfishness has no effect on the climate. If we break the climatic equilibrium, we could risk venus-forming the entire planet.

But even if not for the percieved threat of global warming, bear in mind that the automobile has contributed to the fragmentation of communities, and the aeroplane has reduced the mystique of far off places. If we commuted by bicycle, and went on holiday by train, we'd be more in touch with ourselves and the world around us.

AE.

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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

+ Global warming will make the winters more bearable.
- But what about the summers?

You probably don't know how global warming affects the Gulf stream. Read about it from this thread ;)

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Kauhiz
Member #4,798
July 2004

Quote:

+ First, you said the planet would freeze, then you said global warming is going to happen, and then you said it was going to freeze again. Make up your minds!
- As time goes on, the climate models become more and more accurate. Because of chaos theory, even slight variations in the model can lead to radically different results. Also, bear in mind that global warming could cause the gulf-stream to shut down which will plunce North-West Europe into coldness. This is because of increased freshwater contributed by the three major Russian rivers that flow into the Arctic ocean which would increase their flow due to melting glaciers. But one thing is certain - it's best not to mess with the planet.

Nope, he mentioned that.

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It's Ridge Racer! RIIIIIDGE RAAAAACER!

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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For the Gods' sake, please just let this thread die...

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Andrei Ellman
Member #3,434
April 2003

I do. I was just listing some commonly held views held by global warming skeptics. I could just as well make the point I made like so:

+ Cooling due to the shutting down of the gulf stream will make the summers more bearable.
- But what about the winters?

AE.

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Don't let the illegitimates turn you into carbon.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

+ Records show that at various stages in the past (eg. the medieval warm-period, before the last ice-age, the Eocene Climatic Optimum, etc.) the temperasture is warmer than what it is now, and look - the planet's still here.
- As well as the temperature difference, there's also the rate of temperature change to take into account. For example, the increase of temperature after the last ice-age some 10000 years ago happened over about 2000 years, giving the ecosystems plenty of time to adapt. We don't know how well they can cope with a rapid climatic shift. If the climatic zones slowly move away from the equator, the wildlife moves along with the zone. Even trees can move (by planting the seeds of their offspring beyond the old border for their climate) - now try doing that if the climate-zones move too fast. And besides, every time in the past there's been a climate-shift, there's also been a mass extinction, and quite frankly, we don't need another mass-extinction.

Along those lines, somewhere above I failed to point out that the argument "CO2 levels and temperature were higher during the Carbon period than they are now, so everything will be fine" is invalid: most lifeforms on Earth today would die out if you transported them instantaneously to that time period. Heck, in the distant past the atmosphere was mostly nitrogen, methane and carbon dioxide and by the same argument it would be fine to bring the atmospheric composition back to that - next to nothing alife today would survive in such an atmosphere, let alone the high temperature that would go with it.

All that's fine for life on Earth as a whole, of course. Nothing we can do to it is worse than what's been done to it before. All we need to worry about is wether or not the Earth is a pleasant place to live for us. And for that, it's not what the climate will be like ten thousand years from now that matters, it's what it's like ten years from now that does. :)

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Some of my threads never die easily. It's a gift. :)

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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and now Bush is going to save the world from global warming it might just go on for a bit longer yet ;)

Neil.
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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Bush is going to save the world from global warming

He's going to resign?

Kauhiz
Member #4,798
July 2004

Quote:

and now Bush is going to save the world from global warming it might just go on for a bit longer yet ;)

Oh, come on, give the guy a break! Everything else he's set out to do has worked out just fine.

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It's Ridge Racer! RIIIIIDGE RAAAAACER!

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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He's going to resign?

Almost, in his speech yesterday he says by 2020 the average American car engine will be under 4 litres.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

under 4 litres

He knows about liters!?!? :o

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
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Yeah, you know liters, in the alphabet.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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He knows about liters!?!?

Yeah, but he probably thinks a litre is the size of a 20 gallon drum.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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don't Americans measure engine capacity by the litre? or is it by cups ;)

over here in Blighty imperial measurements rule the waves (and rightly so, ignoring the views of Thomas Harte, of course who's pro-european ;)), but we use litres to measure the size of engine (but imperial everywhere else, e.g. bhp, mph, mpg, tyre pressure in pounds, etc.)

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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They are using cubic inches instead of liters.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Lucid Nightmare
Member #5,982
July 2005
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Start playing Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire/Alpha Centauri and all your questions will be answered.

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