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ten stone testicle
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Vanneto said:

Slovenia (monthly): 1676 USD - all the deductions = 1146 USD (-31.62%)
USA (weekly): 824 USD - all the deductions = 621 USD (-24.63%)

So you guys are making twice as much to start with? Just what are you doing over there? I'd vote with my feet if I could, or should I say boat. Capitalism FTW!

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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kronoman said:

The problem in USA I think is a obsession with money.

You dont want free health care because you are worried about losing a couple bucks every month, that will prevent you from buying the latest crap that Apple wants you to buy.

I'd say that you hit the nail on the head with that remark. You're wrong about the bank balance though. I think a majority of Americans live on credit. Hence, the big housing crisis and bursting bubble. Social status is determined by what you have, and everybody wants to appear upper-middle class, so everybody buys everything on credit. They look wealthy, but in reality they're in debt up to their eyeballs. Hell, even the government is! So basically they don't have any extra money to spend on taxes because they're already buying cars and boats and iPhones on credit. They'd have to pay that extra tax on credit too!

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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You're funny Arthur!

I wish you guys would stop the hyperbole.

;D. It'd be nice if you would. I just started saying things the same way you were talking. Like waking up and looking in a mirror in the morning, you don't always like what you see.

As for your beef with ObamaCare. ObamaCare is more accurately named RomneyCare, and is NOT what anyone wanted, and is most definitely not what is needed. It was a "compromise" that was pushed through after the conservatives refused to even lift a finger past filibustering. The only activity you see from them still is attempts to repeal ObamaCare, after 40+ votes, its still failing.

Little do you know, but your Government spent more money before ObamaCare per capita on health care than we do. And your citizens get much much less for it. Food for thought. So yeah. Our system works better than yours, and is cheaper per capita.

Your costs would go down with a single payer system. But OMG THE RED MENACE!!!!!!OENONEONEONEONEOKKKKK

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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your Government spent more money before ObamaCare per capita on health care than we do. And your citizens get much much less for it.

Of course it did, due to government meddling running the price up. "Oh, pad the bill for 50%, the government's paying for it". Later -- "What? But we've been charging X amount!".

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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HAH. The people charge more BECAUSE the govt is paying for stuff, because they can. But a lot of the costs came in when people couldn't pay the exorbitant fees private hospitals charge. Then the costs end up being paid by insurance and the gov't which raises fees for the average person. Could just have a single payer system instead, and lower costs.

Here the Gov't tends to say "Nope, we'll only pay X amount. Deal with it."

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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And the doctors do deal with it, by getting jobs in the USA. 8-) :-[ In all fairness, I imagine that there is a compromise between them. In theory, I certainly believe that "free" health care can be a good thing, but in practice I'd say that it hasn't been in Canada (or at least Ontario).

In high school one of my friends went to the hospital because she had pain in her gut/stomach and they basically told her that it was nothing and sent her home (I imagine she waited several hours for this diagnosis, but I don't remember). An hour later she returned to the hospital in unbearable pain. Turns out that she had internal bleeding for reasons that I forget and at this point was moments from death. They rushed her into surgery or something and managed to save her.

Years ago my uncle had a run in involving a coffee table, and basically got the same treatment. He fought the advice to go to the hospital for days, but finally went when he could no longer ignore the symptoms. They said it was nothing and he'd be fine and sent him home. A day or two later he was driving to work and realized that something was definitely wrong. Apparently he was basically passing out by the time he got to the emergency room (he drove himself). Turns out that he had 3 broken ribs and they were causing internal bleeding. It was the same story. They managed to save his life, but it was a close call.

There are valid arguments on both sides of the fence. I've seen "free" health care done wrong. I haven't experienced it done right yet, but I trust that others have. Regardless, I'd say that it's important for the people representing government to be unable to exploit the system, while simultaneously giving them the power and responsibility to make sure the actors in the system don't exploit it either. I think it's a difficult thing to attain, especially in a society where people aren't brought up with honesty, honor, and morals being core to their existence.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

a society where people aren't brought up with honesty, honor, and morals being core to their existence.

That's the crux of the matter right there.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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People like to say that, but its always greener on the other side. Yesterday was always better than today, and today is always better than tomorrow.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

I tend to think:

yesterday < today < tomorrow

And people have been complaining about the newer generations since... Well, since there's been more than one generation of people. :P

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.



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