Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » Idiots like this will ruin VR

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
Idiots like this will ruin VR
Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

I'd like to see her try to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria. Just to see how Russia responds. Personally I think it's about time the U.S. is brought down a peg or two. One can only hope that all the shit they've been shoveling around will eventually be dumped right on their front lawn.

In capitalist America bank robs you.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

You want to see two countries escalate toward armed conflict? That's rather extreme.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

I do enjoy watching people saying women aren't equal to men and use things like the wage gap or male dominated jobs as proof.

Biologically men and women will NEVER be equal and that is a fact that feminists refuse to acknowledge. They want equality, yet they keep making up genders to feel special: non-binary, gender fluid, and the laughable preferred pronoun horseshit. A transgender woman stated there are only two genders and she is being called racist and sexist (they love their buzzwords so much that they don't even use them properly anymore, severely trivializing the severity of the actual word). Watch firefighter training videos for proof. I recall one that showed a female firefighter coming up to a weighted door, it had enough pressure to simulate a door, but it was a hinge so it would roll down and the weight would reset it. The three men in front of her knocked it down no trouble, while she tried approximately four times before the instructor told her to go around.Feminists just can't accept that women aren't built for some jobs. They also can't accept that women aren't interested in some fields.

There aren't enough women in male dominated fields. Feminists are wanting to force quotas and force women into jobs whether they like it or not. They want women promoted because they are women instead of on the merit of their work. They don't realize that if you force a woman into a job she isn't familiar with or comfortable with then the work is going to suffer and the projects she is assigned to will be extremely slow going. The recent study also showed that women did poorly on the interview than men did, and of course this made feminists start arguing that the interview needed to be made easier. If you dumb down an interview to make it easier for people to get in then you will get people that can't actually do the job and again you will find your team, project, and company suffering. Sad part is that if you fire a woman, you get to worry about her claiming sexism (or racism) as to why they were fired.

Wage gap, this is another thing feminists preach about as proof of inequality. The wage gap is the median annual earnings for men and women. They use basic math and shoddy information to claim women make less than men. The math behind that is they take the median annual earnings of all women, divide it by the median annual earnings of all men. This gap doesn't take into account important factors that flux the numbers like hours worked, holidays worked, insurance, 401k, share holder, et. al. Best example I can think of is a woman I worked with in retail, she had worked at the company for 15 years, but due to family health she worked less hours than me to be with her husband more and took holidays off while I worked 40+ hours a week, worked holidays, and even came in on days off to help if someone was sick. I made minimum wage while she was making $14 or so an hour, yet our yearly earnings (using the wage gap math) would make her earning less than me for every dollar I earned because that is another factor the gap doesn't take into account, new workers versus veteran workers. I don't even think it takes into account different jobs within each field pay differently as a pediatrician gets paid less than a surgeon in the medical field.

Women are equal to men politically and work wise. The difference comes with the way they view the industry and their interests. For example, as I pointed out, there have been a lot of successful women in the tech field that have not had any experience of sexism that would be great to hold up as role models to encourage girls and other women to get into the industry, instead the media wants to hype up one or two claims that makes the entire tech field look sexist and effectively scare away any woman that is interested in tech or STEM for that matter. After all, Brianna Wu made a single, mediocre game with Unreal (Revolution 60) and Zoey Quinn made a rather lackluster game (used that word loosely) in Twine that was basically a story with hyperlinks (90s web site) loaded in an executable, but they're the two (with Anita) being sold as "the game industry hates women and these are the women fighting it" narrative.

Women are equal to men, but apparently not equal to each other. Kaley Cuoco stated publicly that she liked the traditional gender roles, she liked cooking for her husband. Feminists attacked her until she apologized. Matt Taylor wore a shirt designed by his female friend that depicted women in sexy poses, and feminists drowned out the accomplishment of landing a craft on a comet because they were too busy being offended by his choice of clothing so much so that he had to appear on television crying to apologize to the dipshits. This is the problem, we are raised to feel guilty for upsetting women and apologize for it. That is why anyone fighting feminists are viewed as bad because they are going against what we are taught. That is why feminism has been able to attack people without being called on it, because even when they are the attackers, people still view them as the victims. Feminism has run its course in the US and now the women that identify as feminists are mostly whining because they aren't getting special treatment. I've said it time and time again, if you are truly for equality across the board then you are an egalitarian, if you are seeking that equality by only viewing from the angle of women then you are a feminist, if you are seeking that equality by only focusing on men then you are wrong too.

Feminist want everyone to listen to a woman and believe her claims with no evidence. This thread shows that everyone does that just fine. Look at the feminist outrage when the police pointed out the UVA Rape was false. They started saying the chief was sexist and accused them of promoting "rape culture". Even when facts came out proving the claim was rubbish, they were still getting mad because they didn't just believe the woman and arrest the men she claimed did it, and put them in prison. Just like this, in the court of pubic opinion, people don't want facts, they read something and let their emotions dictate their actions. Facts come out bringing her claim into question and they still refuse to stop believing her. Seems everyone blindly think women can't or don't lie.

The only ones that don't allow women to have choices are other women. Because every time a woman make a choice that another woman doesn't like they attack them for it. For example, Anita Sarkeesian, the poster child for feminism right now, appeared on a panel saying choice feminism was bad and that the choice a woman makes for herself somehow effects all women as a whole (guess that means she is Butterfly Effect Feminism?).

If feminism wants to show it truly cares about women then they need to stop complaining about first world problems and focus on Saudi women and other women that get killed for voicing their opinion or wanting an education. I mean, Malala Yousafzai was shot in the head just because she wanted to get an education. Yet women in the US think an alleged 77 cents pay gap is more important than that? Screw that! The US is borderline Utopian for women compared to other countries that treat their women like cattle to be bought, sold, and slaughtered.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

Why spend the time making a lengthy post full of anecdotes, quips, vague statements? And most of all, you provide absolutely no supporting evidence.

It would be quicker to make a shorter post with concrete statements and supporting evidence. Evidence from credible sources, I should add.

This is a bit overdue (which Neil might be interested to know we Brits pronounce differently from overdo :) ), but:

I will address your post when I have time. Recently, I've devoting a lot of time on an innovative, novel project that is showing incredible progress and has amazing possibility...

I don't watch videos (they're a terrible format for evidence), but I'll bear it since you're a positive person who takes actual effort to reply and I thus I enjoy discussing things with you.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

you provide absolutely no supporting evidence.

Why give evidence? You and everyone else has already shown that when faced with facts you chose to still blindly believe a lie.

Fact: No BigBro442 existed until after her article.
Response: He committed deplorable behavior!
Seems like being offended by behavior of a ghost is close to pearl clutching.

Wage Gap: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof.-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth/article/2580405

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcQ7cA1I62w
http://www.dailydot.com/irl/gamergate-porn-home-invasion/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4s4pZNMq3Q

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24379018

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/femicide-rise-central-america-article-1.1552233

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/img/highlights/Femicide-RN14-fig2.pdf

video

video

Better include a woman talking about the previous video so no one can say it's patriachy.
video

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
avatar

Seems like being offended by behavior of a ghost is close to pearl clutching.

Of course a specter would say that about ghosts ::)

==========================
<--- The ghost with the most!
---------------------------
[Website] [Youtube]

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Difference is that I actually exist and any offensive behavior I exhibit is real. I'm not the fabrication of a unknown woman created to paint gamers in a negative light before she disappears from the internet.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

I'm not the fabrication of a unknown woman created to paint gamers in a negative light before she disappears from the internet

No offence, but sometimes I get the impression that's exactly what you are. Too much of what you write seems too insane to be written by an actual person, unless it was done to paint male gamers in a bad light.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

Why give evidence? You and everyone else has already shown that when faced with facts you chose to still blindly believe a lie.

This is a terrible statement. You're being very rude for no reason.

Quote:

Fact: No BigBro442 existed until after her article.

You say this but don't provide evidence. For example, the NPR piece I linked to previously has the developers of the game commenting on the issue as if BigBro442 exists. Why should I trust you over them?

Quote:

Wage Gap

I agree that the earnings gap is due to choices made by women and men. I'm aware the women tend to negotiate less, work less, and retire earlier.

But that's the thing: why do women make these choices? Is it social pressures? E.g., do women make these same choices in other cultures, or because of the social roles that women are caretakers and thus should tend the household, or something else? On the other hand, is it as a result of some intrinsic nature of the physiological differences between men and women? Most importantly, is the status quo (women earning less due to choices) acceptable or not?

Simply saying "that's the way of things" is not acceptable.

I'm not watching the videos.

...

"Hillary Must Lose" is an overview of the various reasons why he believes that:

I watched it. It was very poorly done.

Quote:

The DNC rigging the primary.

The process of choosing party nominees has always been shaky and could hardly be called fair at any point in recent history (see summary p. 2-3).

In the video, the narrator discusses an article from Observer.com. (He didn't provide a link to the article, which I find irritating). I immediately was concerned about the objectivity of the outlet upon viewing the front page. Its publisher is Jared Kushner, who Trump's son-in-law and helped Trump's digital campaign tremendously (see here). There is an obvious bias here.

It claims the charter was violated. Firstly, that's not illegal. Secondly, I can't find out what bylaws were exactly violated. I'm sure it has to do with the leaders of the party actively working with Clinton, but a quick search only leads to articles claiming the same thing without citing specific bylaws.

I think the DNC had less to do with favoring the lifelong Democratic Clinton and more to do with disliking the lifelong independent Sanders. A classic "us vs them" sort of thing.

Quote:

Clinton smiling

This is just a terrible rhetorical tactic with no substance. It assumes way too much about a simple gesture.

Quote:

Clinton being friendly to the media

What? This is nonsense.

He is claiming Clinton being polite and friendly to those around her is a negative thing. He provides no reasoning as to why. That's absurd. (Personally, her friendliness made her more likable to me, and I'm still not even going to vote for her!)

He frames the situation wrong, as well. The media benefits from Clinton--she's socially liberal, but otherwise conservative (i.e., a neocon). The media is socially liberal (with few exceptions), but otherwise benefits greatly from increasingly laissez-faire markets in order to generate profits. See: Manufacturing Consent by Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky. It comes in documentary form, though I have not watched it.

Quote:

Media conspiracy with Trump

No evidence provided.

Frankly, the media desires profit, and Trump's antics provide viewership and thus profit.

Quote:

Podesta stuff

- Funding ISIS: I'm not up-to-par on diplomatic relations, but I fear publicly shaming Saudi Arabia and "doing something" would be incredibly undesirable, considering Saudi Arabia's position in the Middle East and within the oil industry.

- Hating Americans: I don't see evidence of Clinton "hating Americans." Is he denying there is a sizable portion of Trump's base that is bigoted? Trump's policies and statements include: building a wall (xenophobic, racist), banning Muslims from entering the country (Islamphobic, arguably racist if it extends to stereotypical images of Muslims [e.g., Arabs/Persians]), fabricated statistics about blacks (racist), and mountain of sexist statements about women.

Quote:

Finances

- His criticism of Clinton's campaign contributions apply to almost every single candidate to ever run. Why doesn't he include Donald Trump's donors as a comparison? Maybe because it would show there's nothing out of the ordinary?

- He claims Clinton is lying about her position to get money out of politics, but he doesn't provide any evidence other than "she received campaign donations."

Quote:

Clinton Foundation

- He claims the Clinton Foundation receiving donations from countries like Saudia Arabia is terrible, but doesn't provide any proof, only assumptions and speculation.

- I tried researched links between donations and actions made by Clinton, but found nothing worth a pinch of salt. I did find some interesting info from Politifact that shows the Foundation is boring and statements in the video about places like Arabia are incorrect or misleading. Saudi Arabia didn't provide donations while she was in office, for example.

Look, I'm not voting for Clinton. She will continue similar policies to benefit the 0.1% at the cost of everyone else. But I think Trump is a disgusting human who is by no means qualified to hold any office. And not like third party is any better: Gary Johnson and Jill Stein hold crazy beliefs and promote unworkable and disastrous policies. I would have voted for Sanders, like I did in the primary.

But this hate Clinton gets is unwarranted. She is no worse than Barack Obama, or George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or Bush Sr, or Reagan. I have to wonder if the hatred comes from her actions, or from the fact she was a First Lady who had a successful career in politics before and after her husband's presidency? I fear it's the latter.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

I will address your post when I have time. Recently, I've devoting a lot of time on an innovative, novel project that is showing incredible progress and has amazing possibility...

I don't watch videos (they're a terrible format for evidence), but I'll bear it since you're a positive person who takes actual effort to reply and I thus I enjoy discussing things with you.

I look forward to it, and thanks for the compliment :) If you click through to Youtube, then he usually links his sources in the description. Maybe that's even enough and you will be able to find enough material without watching the video (I haven't checked).

For example, the NPR piece I linked to previously has the developers of the game commenting on the issue as if BigBro442 exists. Why should I trust you over them?

Since you mentioned that piece, I had a look at it myself. I don't see any evidence that the developers checked if the user exists. However, I also don't think they dealt with it badly: the story was written fairly believably as far as I could tell (I just found the word "misogyny" inaccurate, and blink and you miss that one). Why should they bother checking if they feel (probably quite rightly) that they can improve their game?

The rest of the article is a mixed bag. I spotted a few alarm bells, as follows:

Quote:

"It's a different manifestation of the same behavior. So whether it's being overly flirtatious in the workplace or putting your hand on someone's leg when they didn't want it — it's all unwanted sexual behavior driven by sexist tendencies."

This all sounded reasonable until the introduction of the word "sexist". Sexual yes, not sexist. Trying to define things on the fly here (which is always risky), sexist is when you bring sex (gender) into a decision (such as recruitment at McDonald's) where it doesn't belong. I would say merely taking a sexual interest in someone and then making severe social etiquette violations over it is not sexist. The article then claims that "At the heart of the issue is a historical trend of exclusivity in a male-dominated space, Fox says," and here I feel as if all gamers are being tarred with the brush of one class of offenders.

After that, the article goes on to talk about Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu and Anita Sarkeesian. Anita cherry-picks games in an attempt to call sexism and objectification, and even then, her examples are terrible (personal observation), so I'm not surprised she gets a lot of criticism. There's also a video of her admitting that she doesn't play games. I won't go into any other points on these people since I don't have sources to hand, just to say that I got the impression the allegations against them were valid, and they are examples of people who are known for their victimhood, not for a great game they've made or something.

Finally, this paragraph stuck in my craw:

Quote:

Overall, the Harvard Business School reports about 56 percent of women who start in the technology field leave mid-career, double the rate of men, in some cases based on instances of sexism in the workplace.

56% is a large number, but there isn't a number next to the sexism claim. It could be 0.01% for all we know. I don't like the guilt by association tactic.

I observed more women on my computer science course than I have in the industry. Based on personal experience, I think it's because many saw it as a financially profitable field to go into, but they didn't have the wasted childhood tinkering with those early computers that were built for programming, so they started at a disadvantage. In any case, many of them had just taken on the 25% option as part of some other course, and then dropped it after the first year. So there's that.

Anyway, yeah - overall impressions: article reveals an agenda in the way it's written, so therefore, I would take other points with a pinch of salt and look for the opposing viewpoint for comparison (though that's not necessarily Specter or bambams ;) ). For myself I've already done that, but it's obviously down to you to do that in your own way and reach your own conclusions. I only became aware of all these divisive topics because I randomly decided to search YouTube one day for people I could make fun of, and got addicted. It's definitely downtime stuff for me, which is why it ends up being YouTube ;D

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

I look forward to it, and thanks for the compliment

I edited my post about the first video.

Quote:

Anyway, yeah - overall impressions: article reveals an agenda in the way it's written

I definitely agree. Especially with the points you highlighted (Zoe Quinn et al, workplace sexism, etc).

I just brought it up because I knew it would rile up bamccaig and Spectre Phoenix if they read it. Kind of like the "Women and Women First" skits from a show I watch, Portlandia:

video

Personally, I primarily receive news from BBC, NPR, and Al Jazeera. It provides three somewhere-around-objective viewpoints that each have their own specific flaws and strengths.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

LennyLen said:

No offence

Why would I take offense to it? Taking offense to someone's remarks about me would imply I care about what they think of me.

This is a terrible statement. You're being very rude for no reason.

Truth and facts are sometimes rude for those who try to ignore them.

Quote:

You say this but don't provide evidence. For example, the NPR piece I linked to previously has the developers of the game commenting on the issue as if BigBro442 exists. Why should I trust you over them?

Steam is the only place you can get QuiVR, Gameranx EIC showed that the username didn't show up at the time of the article being released. All the NPR piece shows is that, like you, the devs blindly believed her claim and implemented a fix for it. This sounds like the UVA story all over again. The woman accused several guys at a specific fraternity of raping her (had no rape kit done to verify her claim). Upon investigating the police found flaws in her story, like the fraternity didn't have a party at the time she claimed, among other things. In this case the woman accused a specific user of horrible conduct, but upon trying to find him and break his anonymity so the person could be held accountable there was nothing to be found. Bigbro442 appears to be made up just like how feminists love calling male gamers GamerBro, Sander supporters SanderBro, Trump supporters TrumpBro (and as of late Trumpkins), or just the basic DudeBro.

Quote:

I agree that the earnings gap is due to choices made by women and men. I'm aware the women tend to negotiate less, work less, and retire earlier.

But that's the thing: why do women make these choices? Is it social pressures? E.g., do women make these same choices in other cultures, or because of the social roles that women are caretakers and thus should tend the household, or something else? On the other hand, is it as a result of some intrinsic nature of the physiological differences between men and women? Most importantly, is the status quo (women earning less due to choices) acceptable or not?

You agree they make their own choices, but then pull the rug out by making it sound like their choices aren't actually theirs?

Quote:

I'm not watching the videos.

...

It's okay, I understand if you don't want to risk too many differing views at once. Youtube is a great place to find differing views, as well entertainment.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

You agree they make their own choices, but then pull the rug out by making it sound like their choices aren't actually theirs?

I don't believe in free will. Our choices our the culmination of billions of years of cause and effect. They have no more freedom behind them than does a rock's freedom to roll off a mountain due to weathering and gravity and other forces. Choice is an illusion.

For example, I think criminals are also victims, and society is an enabler in criminal behavior and thus at fault. Funny.

Call me what you want. I identify as socialist, feminist, nihilist, humanist, and others. :'(

Also, this is you:

{"name":"sheeple.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/5\/75d5173ae2ef56fa4b16d1367c572332.png","w":376,"h":401,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/5\/75d5173ae2ef56fa4b16d1367c572332"}sheeple.png

;D

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

I don't believe in free will. Our choices our the culmination of billions of years of cause and effect. They have no more freedom behind them than does a rock's freedom to roll off a mountain due to weathering and gravity and other forces.

You don't believe in free will? So you picked your day job due to billions of years of cause and effect?

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

You don't believe in free will? So you picked your day job due to billions of years of cause and effect?

Yes. And yes.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Then how do I know your arguments are your own and not part of the billions of years of cause and effect (brainwashing is what I've seen feminist call it)?

Anita Sarkeesian agrees with you though (It's about the hive mindset and not choice):
{"name":"Cwlvo-0UkAAjwWm.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/f\/3f5a52309c534e4d3011471d0503612a.jpg","w":599,"h":668,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/f\/3f5a52309c534e4d3011471d0503612a"}Cwlvo-0UkAAjwWm.jpg

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

LennyLen said:

paint male gamers in a bad light

That's the impression I get from most "Pro-#GamerGate" articles (and therefore Mr. Phoenix's posts in threads like this) that are posted. Someone does something mean and terrible and they're at arms to "defend it" by lashing out at everyone who sees the it as mean and terrible, and suggesting there is some sort of collective agenda behind it or that these people are conspiring in some way.

These terrible people are often only found in online settings, because the anonymity allows them to behave that way and expose their rotten innards without having to identify themselves.

Probably not fun to play games with, they're the ones who are bullying women when they identify as female, target them with sexual comments, etc. If you've spent any time in multiplayer games you've seen this, but if not, you're probably participating in it and are oblivious to what you're doing behind that mask.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

You don't believe in free will? So you picked your day job due to billions of years of cause and effect?

Think about it. The brain, like everything else, is made out of tiny little particles. They're bound to follow the same laws as everything else. How are you different? If you believe the world is physical, free will is merely an illusion.

Of course it is. Weren't you shaped by your parents' beliefs and actions? Your environment? The millions of little events that shaped your life? Or do you believe you can act outside of all of this? Of course the world is deterministic. If it wouldn't be, it would be random. You think randomness is free will? If the entire Universe has to follow the laws of cause and effect, why not you? Are you somehow different? How?

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

I find it a sad state of affairs to think that everything is predetermined. A world without free will is kind of pointless.

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

You still have "free" will. You're still doing what you want to do. Nobody is forcing you to do otherwise. It's just that you're not free to decide what you will. Is this not obvious? You're shaped by your education, upbringing, genetics, environment, etc. You won't simply decide "OK, I'm going to stop believing in God, give up on Eagle GUI, move to Alaska and start living off the grid" will you? Your intuition is telling you that you could, but that's really not true. Something would have to cause it first. Every decision you took in your life was caused by something. We could hypothetically track every one of them as a response in your brain to external stimuli.

Determinism doesn't take away your ability to affect the world. It empowers you. The opposite is randomness. Is that better? Every action in your life being the result of a coin flip? Yeah, I didn't think so.

When people talk about free will, they usually mean agency. And yes, we still have that. We respond to the environment to the best of our abilities to make our situation better. No doubt.

But actual free will? Like, I'm able to make a decision that ignores all my previous conditioning? Hard to believe if you know anything about how the physical world and thus how the brain works...

In capitalist America bank robs you.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Peoples' life experience makes them predisposed to make certain choices, but the choices are theirs to make nonetheless.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Vanneto said:

I'm able to make a decision that ignores all my previous conditioning?

In that case, my previous conditioning is to hate programmers, games, music, and movies due to a majority of my family having the view that all violence is connected to them. So my previous conditioning should have my views as a complete 180 and saying games/movies/music need to be more inclusive and Rap, violent games, et. al. should be banned to end or at least lower violence. This preconditioning should have been nurtured due to all the "studies" that came out claiming to prove just that.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

No, that's not how determinism works.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Quote:

the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.

Another ideal that forgives rapists, murderers, child molesters et. al. for their actions.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

Another ideal that forgives rapists, murderers, child molesters et. al. for their actions.

And #Gamergaters, too. :)

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.



Go to: