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Idiots like this will ruin VR
Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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The problem with this country is that the party lines are no longer blurred. What I mean by that is that liberals and conservatives used to make up both parties and would reach across the isle to get legislation passed. There used to be Liberal Republicans and Conservative Democrats, but over the years (since LBJ I believe) the lines have started to have a clear divide of Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans.

Best example was the Democratic sit-in over gun violence. Instead of trying to find common ground with Republicans they did the sit-in. Nothing got done and they came in the next day like nothing ever happened.

I'm all for women's rights, but I think the focus needs to be on Saudi women and other women who have zero rights.

My view is that, in the US, women are equal to men (now biologically they will never be equal due to reproductive organs and the types of health issues that affect one gender and not the other) and in fact get more special treatment or perks than men. With abortion, women have all the rights and men have none; if a man and woman have sex, the man wants the child and the woman decides she doesn't, she can abort it and this applies to husbands and wives too as I remember a story three or four years ago where a woman had aborted a few pregnancies and the husband thought it was his fault they couldn't have kids because the wife wasn't telling him she was aborting them. Women, on average, get lighter sentences than men who commit the same crimes. Women win custody of kids and alimony more often than men. Nearing the end of 2016, and while women can fight in combat units, they still are not required to sign up for the draft (and this point actually had feminists fighting to keep it from passing saying it was sexist to require women to sign up for the draft).

If women are making choices about pay, work, etc. based on billions of years of conditioning, that isn't a women's rights issue, it is more a psychological issue. Feminist calls this brainwashing, so to undo it you have to change the conditioning which means you would have to force parents to change their roles, well the roles they see as problematic as I've not seen too much blow back over the male gender roles of mowing the lawn twice a week, fixing things that break, car repair, etc.; rather I see blow back over female gender roles: cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, etc. This is one reason people don't view feminism as an equality movement anymore because it focuses solely on women and pretty much ignores men, unless it is asking men to be an ally to women.

Movies, music, comics, novels, cartoons, and video games (all media) are supposed to be form of artistic expression designed to entertain people. Everyone is going to get offended about something, but why are we expected to change (self censor) it due to those that are offended? It's not a matter of not having the balls to say no, it goes back to the conditioning because we are told repeatedly growing up that we aren't supposed to offend people or hurt their feelings, etc. Think about it, if you say exactly what you are thinking, it is called not having a filter between you brain and mouth because we are expected to sugar coat and not be blunt about things. Even Aaron showed that by starting his statement with "To be blunt," giving a person fair warning that the next part may not be something the like and to avoid it.

What Jordan described in her article is sexual harassment, clearly. The problem is that it is difficult to believe any woman and her claims because of all the women that lied about rape, harassment, and assault. It also is difficult because of the fact that so many feminists improperly use words and use them so much that it removes the severity the word(s) used to hold. Like disagreeing with them, a lot of feminist claim is harassment, makes harassment lose its true meaning. The Hugh Mungus incident where the woman claimed they were harassing her and what not are also stealing any severity the word once held.

It's easy to say "Just ignore the extreme feminists" like Wu, Quinn, Sarkeesian, Cross, etc., but the issue ultimately comes in the fact that the media holds them up like deities and deliver their message like it is fact. Sarkeesian is a good example of this phenomenon, her videos lie about games to push her agenda. Gamers pointed out she was wrong and even explained that the games she used to try and lambaste games in order to sell her claim for that video showed she hadn't played them, was wrong about what she said and shouldn't be taken serious. Games media instead praised her for pointing out all the things, claimed she was right, and begged devs to stop making games for "white cis male gamers, and instead focus on aiming at female gamers". The reason #NotYourShield sprang up was because black, Asian, trans, gay, lesbian, male, and female gamers wanted to make it clear to developers that Anita and the feminist critics and games journalists didn't speak for them. The result was devs making GamerGate and NotYourShield jokes during gaming events like GDC or the recent Blizzcon.

As long as the extremist feminists get all the air time to sell the anti-male views they have, the movement will continue to lose its push and scare women away thinking it is a movement that hates men. Just like those same feminists have people believing the MRAs are woman hating men.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

Videos often provides no sources, use rhetorical tricks over genuine substance, and inherently are hostile to efficient querying/skimming. Not to mention I provide Google revenue and personal data by watching them.

I'm not a fan of videos myself (and let's face it, they are directed towards people who can't be bothered to read), but to say all videos are useless as a source of information just because the majority are is illogical.

You wanted SP to provide you with evidence to back up his claims, and he did. At least dismiss the video based on it's merits (or lack of them), rather than dismissing it out of hand. THAT would be the reasonable thing to do in an argument based on logic.

Quote:

To be blunt, you would not use a random YouTube video as a source in any remotely serious debate.

You're right, I wouldn't. But if my opponent did, and I was serious about the argument, I'd watch it, just so I could rip it apart

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

LennyLen said:

You're right, I wouldn't. But if my opponent did, and I was serious about the argument, I'd watch it, just so I could rip it apart

I am more than willing to bend that 'rule' of mine if the person I'm responding to is reasonable and civil.

But some members aren't like that. When proven wrong, they just ignore it or attack me. Why bother putting in more effort than I do when they put in none themselves?

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

I was referring specifically to the statement "All Lives Matter." In other words, the marginalization of a major issue facing a minority (blacks being substantially more likely to be victims of police violence) because the same happens to others, including the majority (whites are also victims of police violence).

Are you saying that you find the statement "All Lives Matter" disingenuous, but not the people who say it (who are just misinformed)? For me, disingenuous is very much an adjective for describing people, not statements...

By the way, is it right that most of the black deaths protested by BLM were situations where the man in question was armed, was lunging at a police officer at the time, etc., and very few of them are genuine cases of police brutality? I don't know, I just vaguely recall something along these lines. So in that case, the BLM protesters really are way off the mark, and the other issue - of black communities needing a leg up in some way - isn't getting addressed or even awareness raised about it, so criticising the statement "All lives matter" would then be trying to address a symptom instead of the root cause...

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A metaphor would be death from breast cancer. Women are diagnosed with breast cancer at a far, far higher rate than men, but men actually have a higher fatality rate (albeit marginally). At a hypothetical Male Lives Matter breast cancer awareness event, is it proper for women to shut down men by saying "all breast cancer patients matter?" Surely not?

If male breast cancer awareness protesters were blocking motorways, obstructing the course of university education, campaigning for female breast cancer patients to be left to die, and generally being nothing but overgrown children, then I think it would be quite understandable for the public to react the way they are reacting to BLM ;) It's not a fair comparison because those campaigners are much better behaved.

I guess we're not disagreeing about this anyway - I'm just trying to defend the people who hold the "All lives matter" position since it clearly comes from people with their heart in the right place. If you want to challenge it, you're better off raising the right kind of awareness yourself, not accusing people of being disingenuous (that'll just cause them not to listen to you).

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I agree Black Lives Matter overall is not well organized and many protests have done more harm than good. It seems to be par with the course for modern protests (Occupy Wallstreet, for example), even though you'd think with technology, mobilization and logistics would be on point.

Would you? :) A lot of the time, protesters just do it because they have nothing else to do. People who know how to use technology tend to choose different activities. (Personal opinion, I have no sources for this ;) )

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I don't quite understand. If someone says X group is inferior (e.g., implications that women are less capable than men, as stated in this thread by certain members), what am I to call it?

In those cases, call them sexist, racist, disingenuous or whatever applies. I just question whether they really applied in the cases you used them in, and the terms are getting a bit tired from overuse/misuse, something which I felt you were doing, so you have to be careful if you want to be taken seriously.

On another note, the guy whose video I got you to watch - he did an interview where he talked more about his views. It's completely an opinion piece and I won't put you through it. However, it's evident that he thinks Trump is boorish and doesn't know what Trump will do, but he also said he thinks Trump values people's attention and approval and will therefore listen to people, while Hillary will just do what she wants to further her own agenda. He also thinks that there's a culture war of politically correct / stifling of 'unapproved' opinions (establishment) versus wanting to be able to speak freely and voice all opinions without getting shut down for sexism/racism/buzzwords (Trump) - of course sexism isn't a good thing but silencing people from voicing such views is, in his opinion, unacceptable. He believes Trump winning would be a symbolic victory for the latter (a side which I have to say I identify with), that Trump won't manage to do much because every idea he wants to implement will be fought by other parts of the establishment, and that Hillary will on the other hand have everyone's support since she represents the establishment. Finally he talked about Hillary being the most informed person in the world about what's going on in the Middle East, and having had an opportunity to place a stable democracy in (I think) Libya just when it needed it, and having refused to do it, thereby putting a huge number of lives in peril over a long period. He acknowledged that Trump would probably accelerate the nuclear programme in the area, which isn't good either, but is potentially less bad than the kind of thing he says Hillary does. Again I'm afraid I have no sources for any of this, but he really seems to believe what he's saying and want the best for people, so... there we go.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

But it's an audio recording? With a transcript? [www.npr.org]

Do you know the NPR stands for National Public Radio? They don't transmit videos over radio.

I didn't even know there was a video on the page because of the add-ons I have.

When proven wrong, they just ignore it or attack me.

You didn't prove me wrong and I didn't ignore it. Rather you showed that you don't even know what you are linking to as it is a video of Julia Galef on the TED stage talking with a presentation displayed on the screen behind her. I didn't say anything because I was willing to accept your plugin excuse. I've also not attacked you, but you do seem to be sensitive since you take me mentioning you are a Liberal as an insult. I've been called a liberal and conservative, but I don't take either as an insult. You are rather condescending though for assuming a person isn't smart enough to know what NPR stands for.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

I didn't say anything because I was willing to accept your plugin "excuse"

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Where's the video? Do you see the audio bit in the corner? That's what I was referring to when I said "listen to the piece." You know, since I'd say "watch the video" if it were a video I was referring to.

Quote:

I've also not attacked you

Really?

You and everyone else has already shown that when faced with facts you chose to still blindly believe a lie.

What's that?

Truth and facts are sometimes rude for those who try to ignore them.

What's that?

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All the NPR piece shows is that, like you, the devs blindly believed her claim and implemented a fix for it.

What's that?

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It's okay, I understand if you don't want to risk too many differing views at once. Youtube is a great place to find differing views, as well entertainment.

What's that?

Like the bias of only paying attention to liberal news media while arguing liberal view points?

What's that?

Says the liberal who only pushes liberal media and refuses to view anything outside of those liberal sites.

What's that?

Difference is you make yourself seem like you are full of shit.

What's that?

...

You sure love calling me ignorant. :-*

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

1. Take an allegro.cc
2. Mix in a generous portion of milk
3. Liberally sprinkle Wotsits on top
4. ...
5. Profit? Or maybe power.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

May want to stop using that plugin then.
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Because of that plugin you missed out on her full TED Talk. Her TED Talk is under 12 minutes and the NPR segment is under 9 minutes and only plays two soundbites of the TED Talk if I remember right. The whole point of that page was to watch the TED Talk to get context of what the NPR segment was discussing.

Those, dear Aaron, are called truths. You demanded I give evidence of my claims, yet I didn't see you demand evidence of Jordan's claims. That is blindly believing her claims. Everyone condemned BigBro442's actions saying they were horrible, yet they ignore the fact that there has been no proof that he ever existed before the article.

Here is another truth, you seem to take everything as an attack on you personally.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Here's another truth. You have been rude to Aaron. You claim to not be attacking anyone personally, but repeatedly place blame on people for not supporting your beliefs. You've been rude to me, and I responded in kind, yet you avoid it by saying you weren't really talking about me, even when you were clearly referring to me, as you have been clearly referring to Aaron.

She could have been on LAN, she could have changed his name to protect his privacy, there could be reasons you can't find his username. His behavior is typical of multiplayer gamers. They think they can do anything because it's "not real".

So far all you've done is give examples of a few extremists and claim that they represent some kind of massive group conspiring against gamers. A few lone wolf nutjobs does not a movement make.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Here's another truth. You have been rude to Aaron. You claim to not be attacking anyone personally, but repeatedly place blame on people for not supporting your beliefs. You've been rude to me, and I responded in kind, yet you avoid it by saying you weren't really talking about me, even when you were clearly referring to me, as you have been clearly referring to Aaron.

Yes I'm rude, but we have established this years ago. All you did was show that you take them as attacks. I don't care if anyone support my beliefs (last I checked no one did anyways, but it doesn't stop me from expressing my beliefs).

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Not my fault you have the mindset of an social justice retard with delicate feelings that take every disagreement as an attack on your precious self.

That is actually an attack I received simply telling a guy I disagreed with his assessment of me being "an egg-headed lard ass nerd with no life".

Quote:

She could have been on LAN, she could have changed his name to protect his privacy, there could be reasons you can't find his username. His behavior is typical of multiplayer gamers. They think they can do anything because it's "not real".

You have a point, guess we could disable chat so it removes the verbal harassment and implement in game safe spaces so the players can't get more than a car distance from you.

Quote:

So far all you've done is give examples of a few extremists and claim that they represent some kind of massive group conspiring against gamers. A few lone wolf nutjobs does not a movement make.

You're right, I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill.

You made me realize I should give her a benefit of doubt. I'm being pig headed. I'm sorry for "attacking" you and Aaron.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Now you're just being sore because we disagree with you. If you want to have a civil discussion, maybe you should try being civil and stop attacking people. Otherwise all your hysteria will get you is ignored. Too bad this thread is the most popular we've had in a while. Shows had sad the state of affairs at allegro.cc are these days.

She could have been on LAN, she could have changed his name to protect his privacy, there could be reasons you can't find his username. His behavior is typical of multiplayer gamers. They think they can do anything because it's "not real".

You have a point, guess we could disable chat so it removes the verbal harassment and implement in game safe spaces so the players can't get more than a car distance from you.

You're being hysterical again. Not having any rules = free for all. Having rules = people responsible for their own actions. People like "BigBro442" shouldn't be allowed to partake in multiplayer online games because they can't control themselves. We need rules to govern what is proper behavior and what is not. The days of anything goes are coming to an end Specter. Cry about it if you want, but it won't bother me one bit.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Now you're just being sore because we disagree with you.

No, I was being an insincere asshole. Don't care if you agree with me or not, just assumed that is what you wanted to hear. Guess not, oh well.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

No, I was being an insincere asshole.

Careful Specter. Don't want you to ragequit allegro.cc again. You're such a positive contributing member, I'd hate to see you go.

Works both ways, doesn't it?

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

I don't care if anyone support my beliefs

If that was true, you would have stopped posting a long time ago. You keep coming back, so you obviously do feel a need to make people listen to you.

Why? You know yourself that you're never going to convince the majority of people here who think you're views are inaccurate and dangerous. The result isn't going to change.

I believe Albert Einstein has a good quote about people who keep repeating the same exercise and expecting a different result.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Careful Specter. Don't want you to ragequit allegro.cc again.

Nah, I enjoy seeing people disagree with me. So long as I continue to argue like I believe what I'm saying, people will continue to argue. Discourse is a fascinating thing to me.

LennyLen said:

If that was true, you would have stopped posting a long time ago.

A word comes to mind reading that sentence.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

Nah, I enjoy seeing people disagree with me. So long as I continue to argue like I believe what I'm saying, people will continue to argue.

So what you're saying is that you're a giant troll who's full of shit. Duly noted.

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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==========================
<--- The ghost with the most!
---------------------------
[Website] [Youtube]

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

LennyLen said:

So what you're saying is that you're a giant troll who's full of shit. Duly noted.

That was known about me the first time I 'ragequit' the site and came back. Thought I was busted a few times as I think it was you that pointed out I seemed too stereotypical for my arguments and really expected I was busted every time Edgar pointed out I was being hysterical.

I was going to push this discourse a little further, but realized after my last reply I had already done every typical reply and was going to be just repeating all the above arguments over again (which I think I did repeat some several times above).

Edgar and Aaron, this time I am being sincere, I apologize for having the stereotypical "asshole" stance the entirety of the thread. You both were right on your points and yes I was exaggerating my reactions intentionally. I actually feel bad that the reaction to Jordan's claims were that of disbelief to where she was chased off the internet. I also feel the devs did what was necessary to protect women playing the game in the future.

Discourse fascinates me because gender equality and social issues are the biggest hot button topics when they really shouldn't be. It is also fascinating to see people take something as an attack or an insult when it isn't there. Like liberal, I've never, until now, seen a person who is liberal take a person acknowledging them being liberal as an insult. When I wrote my comments I had no intent for them to be attacks on either of you, but you took them as attacks and for that I apologize.

American people want equality so bad that I broke 1/4 of the 1k signatures needed for a Change.org petition I started calling for the US flag to be redesigned to be more inclusive. It never broke 1/2 and was deleted after not making goal, but it was an eye opener.

The question needs raised, how do you have a serious discussion when many have the reactions I portrayed and refuse to budge on their views or, depending on the choice of communication, block you to maintain their little bubble. With everyone wanting safe spaces to keep from being challenged, how do you try to approach them when they have views that may be construed as wrong?

Even our political parties are heated like that. Fewer and fewer legislation is passed each year because the parties refuse to work together for the good of the nation.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Play Devil's Advocate long enough, and you end up doing his work for him. </2c>

Really though, why argue just for the sake of arguing? You seem to believe what you are saying though, and so I took you at face-value.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Really though, why argue just for the sake of arguing? You seem to believe what you are saying though, and so I took you at face-value.

To see what techniques people use to deal with unruly people who refuse to budge on their view.

I deal with a lot of people like that and the only solution I was coming up with was to ultimately give up. I figured if I presented myself as the unruly person I would get an idea of different techniques to strike up a discussion. The main thing I saw was that you and Aaron, no matter how unruly I got stuck to your guns and just kept trying to open dialogue and presenting me with different views. What I took away form this is that of the old adage, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Seems the same is true for unruly people, you can present them with facts, but nothing will make them read it. Ultimately it will take their bubble popping to make them re-evaluate their views. So all I can do is keep presenting people with facts and hope that one day their views will change so that they stop ignoring them.

Aaron, I do ask that you disable your plugin to watch the TED Talk on the NPR page. It's an interesting video that adds to the NPR broadcast in my opinion. After watching and listening to it though, I just have to say..I'm still right ;).

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Huh? You tried being an unruly person in order to establish that presenting you with facts wouldn't make you read the facts?

Now I've seen everything ;)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Someone I know was just reading her FB feed, and one of her friend's coworkers (who is a Trump supporter) posted a comment saying "There go your rights, faggot!" This is what we have to look forward to now that Trump is president. 4 years of bigotry, hatred, xenophobia, sexism, and corrupt business practices profiting rich whites. I'd just like to take a moment and say Congratulations, everyone who voted for Trump. You got what you asked for. >:(

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Huh? You tried being an unruly person in order to establish that presenting you with facts wouldn't make you read the facts?

I've done it on other forums with mixed results. Some sites just ban my account rather than engaging me with facts trying to change my views. Other sites left my account stay active, but banned the topics. Then sites, like this one, allowed the rants without a word.

I can't say the idea was an original idea though, it was actually planted in my head upon seeing a news segment about Norah Vincent and her experiment she did for her book Self-Made Man. She wanted to see the difference with men interaction with one another and the interactions with men and women so she dressed like and lived like a man. It was an interesting idea that got me to wondering about the reactions to the pearl clutching fear mongers that think some group is going to ruin their country or their hobby and ultimately was curious about the methods used to combat their delusions.

Look at the delusions from the election. People thought if Clinton won that Russia would go to war with the US. Logically if that had ever been a real problem Putin would have done so when he came to power or some time before now. People, my mother-in-law included, think that Trump will launch all our nukes like he has some sort of button in the oval office he can push. Gamers are letting their fear cloud their views and think feminists are going to ruin games. In the same breath you have people saying stupid things like "Games would be an art form if not for gamers."

Makes me wonder, can you battle delusions when they are founded by fear or does that make them so real to the person that they will never see them for the falsehood that it is?

Congratulations, everyone who voted for Trump. You got what you asked for.

My vote wouldn't have made a difference because I would have voted for Johnson. Some viewed voting for him a waste of a vote because "it took away from Clinton or Trump's chance to win".

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

Some viewed voting for him a waste of a vote because "it took away from Clinton or Trump's chance to win".

I hate that line of thinking.

I didn't vote for any option. I took a leaf from Thoreau have been planning an alternative approach.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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My vote wouldn't have made a difference because I would have voted for Johnson. Some viewed voting for him a waste of a vote because "it took away from Clinton or Trump's chance to win".

Unfortunately that's basically true. In our last election I was forced to vote for a candidate that I didn't like to prevent another party from gaining power. It wasn't the party nor the candidate that I wanted to vote for, but the person and party that I wanted to vote for had no chance of winning, even if everybody that wanted to vote for them did.

We're fighting to change our electoral system in Canada to solve that exact problem. Unfortunately, we depend on the people that were wrongly elected by the existing system to change it so fat chance that it will change. But at least they're talking about it which is a start.

Americans should be starting that same discussion. It seems even worse in the USA. Am I to understand that all of the "points" allocated to a state go to which "candidate" or "party" has the majority for that state? In other words, nearly an even number of people in Michigan voted for Trump and for Clinton, but (assuming their votes mattered) Trump would have gotten all of Michigan's points? Doesn't that sound like a terrible system? Are you fighting to change it?

Append:

Speak of the devil. I just got this in my inbox.

{"name":"610611","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/d\/fdb296088bff660c0024e0de6637ca9a.png","w":624,"h":587,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/d\/fdb296088bff660c0024e0de6637ca9a"}610611

(Mind you, they shouldn't assume that everybody takes Trumps victory as a defeat; I find that offense >:()



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