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Idiots like this will ruin VR
Elverion
Member #6,239
September 2005
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Derezo said:

this idea does seem to be an expression of transphobia to me.

Not only to you, but to actual transgender people as well. I can already see my trans friends cringing. Fun fact: I may have just made a new friend last night who then let me know she was trans. I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate being told that she's "really a man," nor being made out to be a freak that, upon sleeping with her, would disturb her partner so much that they felt the need to take themselves out.

--
SolarStrike Software - MicroMacro home - Automation software.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

You're right, me and bamccaig should just do like you and everyone else and turn a blind eye to it while lying to ourselves that they have no power.

Ghostbusters is effectively ruined because it pushed feminist ideologies, but they have no power.

Feminist followers have gotten people fired for disagreeing with them, but they have no power.

Feminist run localization companies are removing huge chunks of original dialogue in recent games to push feminist ideologies, but they have no power.

Publishers think the games media have their finger on the pulse of the gamer consumer base and the games media is mostly feminist now and claiming gamers want feminist angled games, but they have no power.

Let's keep our heads in a hole and let Feminists take over the industry. Won't be long and the industry will have a new crash.

Elverion said:

Not only to you, but to actual transgender people as well. I can already see my trans friends cringing. Fun fact: I may have just made a new friend last night who then let me know she was trans. I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate being told that she's "really a man," nor being made out to be a freak that, upon sleeping with her, would disturb her partner so much that they felt the need to take themselves out.

So you can speak for transgender now? That is interesting because a lot of transgender men and women contacted the team and the original author via Facebook and Twitter saying they had no problem with it and even said the devs should have kept it. Many pointed out that the people mad about it were being offended for a group that didn't find it that offensive at all.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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You're right, me and bamccaig should just do like you and everyone else and turn a blind eye to it while lying to ourselves that they have no power.

So what actions are you taking in response to the issue of third-wave feminism?

For example, I dislike corporate and government surveillance so I've actively undergone efforts to limit the information corporations, and to a lesser extent, government can obtain by using various browsing habits and using services like Tor. I've also contacted my representatives, and have gone to campaign stops of potential representatives, to present my concerns.

What have you done, in your case?

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their - Erin Maus

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

First of all, anyone that reads twitter tweets is a twit. I just spent 20 minutes reading gamergate hashtags on twitter and I literally feel dumber. And I didn't see anything there controversial or offensive, rather it was mundane and pointless. What a waste of time. Why do you spend time listening to this shit?

It's like people who read the National Enquirer looking for real news and actually believing what they read.

Name one person who lost their job because of the Feminazis. Name one company who's stock dropped after they boycotted them. Can you? Otherwise you're just continuing to be hysterical about something that is totally a non issue. And like Aaron said, what are you doing about any of it, besides whining here?

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Derezo said:

While it may be a buzzword, it does describe a real phenomena, and this idea does seem to be an expression of transphobia to me.

Nope. Nope nope nope.

On the contrary, the man in the poem was raped because the 'woman' he slept with didn't give him all the information he was entitled to first. So the man is the victim in this story, yet you can see how the trans person automatically gets everyone's help. We can debate why that is - are they the ones who seem to be most troubled in general life and therefore naturally attract sympathy?

Personally I would have kept the poem up, perhaps putting out a one-off, short, statement stating that trans people have all my support, provided they don't commit rape like the one in the poem ;).

So, Aaron's question - personally I just watch all this stuff on YouTube and worry about it a little, but recognise that I have no persuasive ability and should focus on what I'm good at, which is - at the moment - firmware programming :). That said, when the police recently announced a 'hate crime awareness week' featuring a hideously open-to-abuse definition of what a hate crime was (anything that one person says is one), I did write in and express my concerns.

Name one person who lost their job because of the Feminazis.

Perhaps Tim Hunt?

Or how about Donald Trump for his "grab 'em by the" video which was really just him being a lad, while Hillary Clinton is busy starting world wars and practising mass embezzlement and deception which are clearly much more serious problems?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Or how about Donald Trump for his "grab 'em by the" video which was really just him being a lad, while Hillary Clinton is busy starting world wars and practising mass embezzlement and deception which are clearly much more serious problems?

That is not accurate...

I don't like Hillary Clinton, but that's not accurate at all. You're also underplaying the backlog of sexist remarks Trump has made in this campaign, let alone his life.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their - Erin Maus

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Although I'm interested to learn more about it and how it's not accurate, I think it's more important to get our priorities straight. If Hillary Clinton is committing such massive humanitarian crimes, why does criticising her only get five words in your post and you focus so much on whether Trump is sexist? Do you think his alleged sexism could be as bad for the world and the country as Hillary's crimes? Or maybe you're saying Hillary isn't committing such crimes, but then you'd have actually said it, so... you can't be saying that? I'm confused.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I simply acknowledged the points you made.

You claim Clinton is committing or has committed humanitarian crimes. Support this point with evidence. You claim Clinton is committing or has committed mass embezzlement. Again, support this point with evidence. You claim Clinton is practicing mass deception. Again, needs support.

I can't feasibly prove Clinton isn't doing any of these. But I didn't make the claims. (For the record, if she were guilty of any of these, she would not be running for president. You know why? Republican-run Congressional committees.)

I can, however, prove the Trump has made a litany of sexist remarks in his campaign. And while I can also prove Trump has made a great many racist and xenophobic remarks (among other things), as well, you never mentioned Trump in this manner so I didn't bring it up. Do you see my point?

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their - Erin Maus

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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On the contrary, the man in the poem was raped because the 'woman' he slept with didn't give him all the information he was entitled to first. So the man is the victim in this story, yet you can see how the trans person automatically gets everyone's help. We can debate why that is - are they the ones who seem to be most troubled in general life and therefore naturally attract sympathy?

I suppose you're right. The part that got a reaction from me is that suicide (also a potential hot topic) seems like an extreme reaction and so it seems like a harsh criticism of trans people to a degree.

The poem is not something I would personally complain about. I can just understand why people would.

In part the sympathy grows the more you learn about the LGBT community I guess. Trans people are vulnerable to discrimination and they are disproportionately targeted in ways that nobody should have to experience.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Don't forget Clementine Ford bragged about getting a man fired because he called her a "slut" on social media.

Feminists tried to get the YouTuber Thunderf00t fired. A feminist tried to get a US Soldier discharged because he called her out for claiming text gave her PTSD. She demanded to have his commanding offircers name and number.Developer Jason Miller was fired from his job after a feminist complained because he did something so terrible, he had a tweet with the hashtag NotYourShield.

Let's not forget about the feminists whom lied about being raped or sexually assaulted, ruining the lives of the men they claimed did it.

Feminists have made it so men are too scared to even mentor women now.

Don't forget Greg Elliot faced a possible prison time because he dared to oppose a feminist's views on Twitter.

Adria Richards claimed a man allegedly talked about "forking" and "dongles" sexually. Upon which she reported to his employer and got him fired. When he retaliated and went to her boss and got her fired she claimed she was the victim and media told men to "get a grip".

Contact my representatives? Been doing that since the Jack Thompson started in on games. At least back then they sent the generic "Thank you for expressing your concerns" letter, now you get the confirmation that your concerns were sent. Let's be clear, your concerns go to your representative's staff and they decide if it is worth elevating to the representative to look at. Congress don't view games as anything more than children's toys so any concerns about the feminist religion trying to conquer gaming isn't priority to them and won't make it pass the staff.

Write to the media? You mean that same media that published and parroted the feminist lies about #GamerGate being a mob of white male gamers seeking to chase women out of tech while only being able to use Wu, Quinn, Anita, and a few other feminists as examples of "women in tech" and most outlets steered clear when Amy Hennig spoke out that she had not experienced sexism in her long career and said the claims that the industry was sexist were disturbing to her. What about Jade Raymond, Carol Shaw, Kim Swift, Corrinne Yu, Roberta Williams, Sherry McKenna, Mari Shimazaki, Lori Cole, Jane Jensen, Donna Bailey, Kellee Santiago, or the many more women that have been and are successful in the industry? In fact, Anita complained about Bayonetta being sexist and eye candy for men and no way empowering to women, but Bayonetta was designed by Mari Shimazaki. These women are successful and well respected in the industry and should be held up as role models for women seeking to get into the industry, instead the media want to use Wu, Quinn, and Anita and paint this image that the industry has an issue with women just because gamers called them out on their lies.

Maybe I can write the President and voice my concern, wait, no....the POTUS may be Clinton who has a history of blaming video games for violent crimes, trying to get legislation in place to fine retailers for parents buying children mature rated games, and said she is a feminist.

Yeah, I'm drawing a blank on exactly who I am supposed to go to.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

The fact that upsetting or crossing a woman, homosexual, or trans-gendered person (especially a female one) can ruin a person or organization should actually make things worse for them. Do you want to fill your organization with ticking time bombs of entitlement and victimhood or try to stay off the SJW radar instead and keep the staff limited to the demographics that don't cry wolf?

When these people are forcibly hired to meet quotas the problem is exacerbated. The SJW is likely not to be the best candidate, whereas the man she gets fired was probably a valuable member, there on their own merit. I hope in time society hits back. Abolishes quotas and refuses them employment out of self preservation. What's sad is that the women, homosexuals, and trans-gendered with merit are judged by their louder, toxic peers. Everybody learns to be skeptical of these groups because of the very serious harm they cause.

The world is a dangerous place (men know that much better than women do). There is no way to make it "safe" for everyone. Laws already exist to make terrible acts punishable. People still commit terrible acts. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, but unless you have any better ideas how to stop the bad guys without netting the good guys too you're just being childish and undermining the freedoms we've learned over time to demand and defend.

Personally I've contacted my representatives in government on several occasions. As Specter explained, you're lucky to get any reply at all from the office, and if you do there's no guarantee the actual elected official wrote it or saw yours, and even if they did the response is just "thank you, but fuck you". Government is not going to undermine this golden goose they have on their hands. They can get away with anything!

As for activism in public, it's a dangerous thing to have these kinds of ideas in this day and age. You can lose your entire career, face exile, or potentially even end up getting imprisoned on some bullshit charge (or at least, owe a bunch of debt to cover the legal fees to NOT). It is that ridiculous. I don't think I'm brave enough to take those risks. Not that in-person activism will get you very far. Most men's rights activism seems to end up with an angry mob of "Feminiazis" trying to disrupt it by any means necessary and the media covers the event as if it was a hate group smashing baby skulls on wells.

Online I participate in intelligent discussions whenever I can (and amuse myself when people are incapable of that). I strive to learn more about the situation to better my own beliefs, while fighting to awaken the masses to the irrational lies that we've all been taught to accept without question for generations. I do my best to encourage friends, family, and peers to question the status quo and challenge the doctrine. I do everything I consider reasonable, including donating money to organizations that I believe will use it to work towards a better future.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

Claiming that if you do not want it, you shouldn't be there is about an idiotic statement as one could imagine!

I am personally sick and tired of multiplayer games for a similar reason. People harass the shit out of you and nothing is ever done about it.

I would gladly like to see laws covering this sort of thing. Laws which take the anonymity out of the picture and have real consequences behind harassing people. It's long overdo.

If the game is open to the public, than it needs to have laws to govern behaviour. Harassment is harassment. These people need to be punished by being banned. Perhaps give them 3 chances with progressively harsher punishments, the third time resulting in a ban of their IP.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

By mandating laws with harsh penalties, it puts a lot of burden on the gaming companies involved because to do it right it would require diligent moderation. People do abuse report functions and online game play, spoken and written dialog will have to be recorded and kept for a minimum duration so it can be reviewed by a human or else innocent people will be banned by stupid children, toxic SJWs and other types of trolls.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Contact my representatives? Been doing that since the Jack Thompson started in on games.

The best action is voicing your concerns when they're campaigning, or if they're in office, calling and writing a letter. And also organize, and get others to do the same. Why do you think the NRA is so successful?

The feminists you discuss aren't doing any of these, so your voice is the only one that matters.

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Write to the media?

I wouldn't suggest that. The capitalistic media is generally toxic, whatever it broadcasts. It simply benefits itself at the cost of an informed consumer. For example, the media has made so much off exploiting consumers in this election, and now look at the state of it.

Quote:

Yeah, I'm drawing a blank on exactly who I am supposed to go to.

Organize a men's rights group that simply promotes failures for men's rights. Don't bring up women. Make men's rights an independent issue of women's rights.

If you can't, then why bother concerning yourself with the issue? For example, there's nothing I can do about US foreign policy, so I don't spend tens of hours a week concerning myself with it. I keep informed, yes, but I don't obsess over it.

The world is only as good as you make it out to be.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their - Erin Maus

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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bamccaig said:

The fact that upsetting or crossing a woman, homosexual, or trans-gendered person (especially a female one) can ruin a person or organization should actually make things worse for them.

Why do they have to be LGBT? I've upset people and they've tried to "ruin" me, it does make it worse for them. People in general who have vindictive personalities will often self destruct.

The pro-BigBro arguments just seem like trying to come up with excuses for why people should be terrible.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Why do you think the NRA is so successful?

There's a lot of money in firearm, ammo, accessory sales, service, and let's not forget enforcement and imprisonment (i.e., US prison system is largely private). It's also another way for the US government to keep the population ignorant and easily controlled. In short, there's money and power in it.

Arguably, there's more money in it for interested parties to back Feminism. Aside from taxing the men to take care of the women and taking their slice (probably less significant in the US), there's also a lot of money changing hands in family resolution/child support/enforcement. It also remains to be seen if women actually can perform "equally". Forcing them to be responsible for themselves and expecting the same of them as we do of men might well collapse society and/or ruin the golden goose that they have. It will likely cost a lot of money and rob them of control over the population.

Organize a men's rights group that simply promotes failures for men's rights. Don't bring up women. Make men's rights an independent issue of women's rights.

There's a problem with your logic. Many of women's so called "rights" and privileges fronted by the Feminist political machine are at the expense of men. For example, family courts preferring mothers to fathers. For example, mothers having no consequences for lying to a man about the biological father of the baby. These issues impact women, and correcting the problem is directly contrary to women's "rights". You cannot have both ways. The discussion is naturally and necessarily also concerned with women's "rights" because more often than not those come at the expense of men in some way.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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bamccaig said:

There's a lot of money in firearm, ammo, accessory sales, service, and let's not forget enforcement and imprisonment (i.e., US prison system is largely private). It's also another way for the US government to keep the population ignorant and easily controlled. In short, there's money and power in it.

The NRA is different from your standard lobbyist group. The NRA posts a notice on anti-gun legislation to its members, and its members contact their representatives. Those who are indifferent or supportive of the legislation are always silent. The representatives thus hear from the opposition, and think the bill is bad, so they vote against it to ensure their future success.

See: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/taking-on-the-n-r-a

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It's also another way for the US government to keep the population ignorant and easily controlled

I don't understand. The NRA is used by the government to keep the population ignorant?

Quote:

(i.e., US prison system is largely private)

What does "largely" mean? I'd think it means greater than 50%, but only ~8% of inmates are in private prisons as of 2010 (1. "Too good to be true: Private prisons in America", table on p. 1; 2. "for-profit companies are responsible for approximately 6 percent of state prisoners, 16 percent of federal prisoners", . Don't get me wrong, private prisons are disgraceful--personally, the entire criminal system is inhumane--but don't misrepresent the issue. That's a mistake.

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Arguably, there's more money in it for interested parties to back Feminism. Aside from taxing the men to take care of the women and taking their slice (probably less significant in the US)

How?

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there's also a lot of money changing hands in family resolution/child support/enforcement.

How much is "a lot"?

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It also remains to be seen if women actually can perform "equally".

What do you mean? Are you talking about intellectual or physical differences? Keep in mind most jobs in first-world countries don't involve labor anymore.

Quote:

Forcing them to be responsible for themselves and expecting the same of them as we do of men might well collapse society and/or ruin the golden goose that they have.

This is a very poorly worded statement. You are claiming women are irresponsible. This is a generalization. You are claiming by having women be responsible, we may collapse society. This is a very bold claim. Where is evidence of this?

Quote:

Many of women's so called "rights" and privileges fronted by the Feminist political machine are at the expense of men. For example, family courts preferring mothers to fathers.

("Political machine" is not the right term. Maybe you mean lobby?) Where is evidence that feminism is responsible for family courts preferring mothers? Can you support this claim? I'm aware fathers are disproportionately punished, but I'm explicitly asking how feminism affects this. Are you sure it's not the stereotypical roles that the mother is the loving, caring one and the father is the stern, indifferent one? That's not feminism (i.e., rights for women).

Quote:

These issues impact women, and correcting the problem is directly contrary to women's "rights".

So are gender rights a zero-sum game?

...

I expect evidence, otherwise your no more informed than the feminists you call 'ignorant'. Personally, I think you'd benefit by spending more time trying to be persuasive. It would also make your posts more civil.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their - Erin Maus

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

https://archive.is/Ngelw

First comment on it:

Quote:

The developers are, IIRC, open supporters of the GamerGate movement; who exactly expected them to like journalists, or have a nuanced view of romance and sexuality?

Make a game that the feminist games media deems "problematic" and you are instantly a GamerGate supporter. Proof? None given, but facts aren't needed for people to form online lynch mobs against those who challenge their views of that Utopian world that floats in their minds.

Dev told the "journalist" the code was place holder code to just get the system working and that the bugs in this release are already fixed in the next? That's okay, they'll ignore it to claim the game is sexist and has sexuality issues. Small group of assholes discuss killing lesbian/gay characters so the game is to blame, not the assholes that are discussing it. It's no wonder AAA devs are starting to blacklist Kotaku, Polygon, and RPS from getting review copies. Hell, Bethesda now won't give review codes until 24 hours before the launch date.

Though, if game culture and gamers are dead, I supposed the only fault left is the developers. Wonder when they will be declared dead by the games media.

For shits and giggles, The Ralph Retort is about as tabloid as you can get, but he is a journalist that claims he is a blogger even though he has journalist credentials. Brianna Wu is considered by games media as the "leading female game developer in the industry" so it's entertaining when she posts stuff like this that TRR points out: http://theralphretort.com/infamous-nutter-brianna-wu-claims-the-fbi-was-infiltrated-by-gamergate-1103016/

Well now we add new things developers have to worry about:
{"name":"CwbgNkiWEAAqvO7.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/a\/7a8d6d49c38bc6f8e288aabdc66c4bce.jpg","w":1200,"h":677,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/a\/7a8d6d49c38bc6f8e288aabdc66c4bce"}CwbgNkiWEAAqvO7.jpg

Game developers now have to worry about if you are meeting the LGBTQ quota, the Feminist quota, the POC quota, and now the Religion quota. Why stress making them fun? Just push the quotas!

http://archive.is/AFGTC WHY?!

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

Your anger is being farmed for ad revenue. You click, you get upset, you share, they profit.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

That is why I use or try to use archive.is for most of the links I share.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
avatar

You're missing the bigger picture, I think.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

You're missing the bigger picture, I think.

No, you are saying they are trolling, making clickbait titles to spark my anger and get me to click on the article in order to drive their revenue up. Upon sharing it I am helping push their revenue up. Which is why I try to remember to use archive.is when I see them because they get no revenue from people reading the archives.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
avatar

No, you are saying they are [instigating], making clickbait titles to spark [widespread] anger and get [people] to click on the article in order to drive their revenue up.

Kind of like those "quizzes" that say something like "Name a word that starts with Z! 90% will fail!" Of course they get tons of people sharing it for the ridiculousness of it.

==========================
<--- The ghost with the most!
---------------------------
[Website] [Youtube]

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

This is a bit overdue (which Neil might be interested to know we Brits pronounce differently from overdo :) ), but:

You claim Clinton is committing or has committed humanitarian crimes. Support this point with evidence. You claim Clinton is committing or has committed mass embezzlement. Again, support this point with evidence. You claim Clinton is practicing mass deception. Again, needs support.

OK, so I have got my information from Sargon of Akkad. There's no doubt he has a political leaning of his own, but he does seem to pride himself on trying to cite real sources, so I generally tend to end up trusting him. If you can find holes in his logic, please tell me as it will be a learning experience for me on whom to trust :)

Here are the two most pertinent videos for this subject.

"Hillary Must Lose" is an overview of the various reasons why he believes that:

video

"Hillary Wants War" goes in more detail into that aspect of it:

video

The general message I got from it was that she is committing humanitarian crimes (war) or at least plans to; that she embezzles (perhaps I'm using the term loosely but she receives underhand money from all sorts of dodgy places including foreign governments and motivated corporations); and that she practises mass deception (i.e. lies constantly, and laughs off valid accusations). As I said, willing to be persuaded otherwise if you can point out where the flaws in those videos are for me.

By the way, thanks for mentioning the NRA - I hadn't heard of them and had no idea that was happening. I think whoever said it was right that there's money in it and thus justification to dedicate some number of paid hours a day to lobbying for guns to stay as unregulated as possible. Ideally we'd have an opposing organisation whose members fight the opposing side, but who will pay for that?

On a general note, this next video was a mindblow for me and has turned me from resenting how car-dominated our roads are in the UK (really I feel constantly oppressed by it, to use a trigger word ;), as I'm sensitive to noise and smells and also aware of the danger, and also a lot of drivers are stressed and it shows) ... turned me from that into being thankful that our society is as safe as it is.

video

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

Note that the anonymity saves life's guess how many people would be murdered if say the only way to play DOTA was to be sitting right next to your team mates. maybe we should make it a social experiment we could give out the names and addresses of dota players

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i



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