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Absolute proof that GOD EXIST (Pretty Cool)
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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bambams, that's the longest post I've ever seen ;D

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I think he meant that he actually bothered to read.

Are you... mad... someone acknowledged reading your posts?

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

No, I didn't read it :)

Remind me of a longer post then - I don't remember one ;)

Also, Neil, you're still preaching. Stop it. >:(

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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{"name":"610131","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/1\/e106aff4363101c0d50b2bbf8cb88d8e.png","w":960,"h":585,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/1\/e106aff4363101c0d50b2bbf8cb88d8e"}610131

:P

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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{"name":"religion_o_1224199.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/d\/bddd94f3a576d061f1ad0f8646de0d6f.jpg","w":937,"h":972,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/d\/bddd94f3a576d061f1ad0f8646de0d6f"}religion_o_1224199.jpg

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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bamccaig, nice image! That is precisely why I am against most churches. Especially the Roman Catholic church who is the exact opposite of my beliefs.
(saved that image and reposted it on Facebook myself, love it!)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Remind me of a longer post then - I don't remember one ;)

An approximation (literally copy/pasting from Firefox in Fedora 23 into wc(1)) yields 75 lines, 2800 words, and 17093 characters. I can't recall a particular thread. What would speed this greatly along is ML executing some SQL against the database. Alas, that's not likely to happen because it would probably spark some kind of competition. >:( In any case, my longest post in this thread so far doesn't look very long. I'm pretty confident that I've had to shorten posts to get past the physical length limit. I drink a lot though so I may be remembering wrong. It's hardly relevant anyway. It's much more entertaining to watch Neil Roy's antics.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Well, I got bamccaig to quote from the bible. My job here is done. ;D

Proverbs 1:22-27 (NIV)
“How long will you who are simple love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge? Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings. But since you refuse to listen when I call and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand, since you disregard all my advice and do not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you; I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you.”

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

I don't think God gave us intellectual capabilities just to scare us away from their use. Also, in my experience, humility and core concepts of Christianity (and other religions) go together rather well, while those who raise their voice loudly and appear to be overly certain of the transcendental, are prone to not seeing the log in their own eyes and generally tend to embody the darker sides of religion.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Now in fairness, the starving African in the photo is probably not starving because of Western attitudes. It's more likely to be because his own country is corrupt. Replace the photos of the church looking rich with equivalent photos of his country's leaders looking rich, and it makes sense.

Neil's obviously trolling at this point. I had hoped this was the case all along (I even edited such a comment into one of my posts briefly), but it didn't seem that way at first ;)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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I figured it out now. They don't want the creator to be proven to them because they enjoy sinful things they are doing. If the creator is realized to them they would have to stop the things they enjoy. They think ignorance is a get into haven free card.

Sad news buddies you want be able to say you did not know and think you can slide in like with everyone else when the time comes. Childish thinking humans are capable of.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
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piccolo said:

I figured it out now. They don't want the creator to be proven to them because they enjoy sinful things they are doing.

Hey, did you see a guy around here? His name was Sh!t-Sherlock, first name "No". To quote Billy Joel:

Quote:

They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun...

...yeah, I just figured it was time to heat things up in here. ;)
My job here is done. 8-) *mysteriously disappears into the pig* ...Stupid pig!

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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piccolo said:

I figured it out now. They don't want the creator to be proven to them because they enjoy sinful things they are doing.

That is exactly right. But the following verse is quite clear, there will be no excuses come judgment day. I sincerely hope some of these scoffers change, as I would not wish to see anyone suffer the punishment that is coming to the disobedient.

Romans 1:20 (NIV)
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
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I swore to myself I wouldn't get involved in this, but, well...

Okay, here's some logic for you: For every religious person who says they "know" what the "truth" is (and have thoroughly convinced themselves of this), there's a million others with contradictory beliefs (even within the same faith!) who are just as convinced of their idea of "truth" as you and will not hesitate to shout "Heresy!" and tell you, just as you have us, that you're going to burn in hell for your sins.

Surely there can't be multiple "truths" can there? Either one version is right and all others are wrong, or none of them are right--and given that there's nothing even close to resembling a consensus, Occam's razor dictates the latter.

Either that or maybe the many-worlds hypothesis is true (and therefore there are multiple pantheons), and somehow all the timelines merged into one... ::)

Anyway, I'll go back to standing outside the oven (now that I stoked the flames a bit) and peeking through the glass. It's safer than sticking around for what I'm sure is about to come. Hint: It involves lots of Neil spewing Bible quotes and bambam rolling his eyes at them. :D

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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There's an explanation for everything in the Bible. All you have to do is look for it.

Matthew 7:7-8 said:

7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.…

bamccaig's image said:

We simply cannot afford to feed this person.

Matthew 24:5 said:

5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

Saying you're Christian doesn't make you one. It's what you do.

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[a] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him,[b] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Your rewards are based on your works. Do you want rewards? Or punishment?

Galatians 6:7-10 said:

Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow. If you sow to your own flesh, you will reap corruption from the flesh; but if you sow to the Spirit, you will reap eternhal life from the Spirit. So let us not grow weary in doing what is right, for we will reap at harvest time, if we do not give up. So then, whenever we have an opportunity, let us work for the good of all, and especially for those of the family of faith.

Everything has been foretold from the beginning. God declared it. All you have to do is choose to listen and believe.

Isaiah 46 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) said:

46
1
Bel bows down, Nebo stoops,
their idols are on beasts and cattle;
these things you carry are loaded
as burdens on weary animals.

2
They stoop, they bow down together;
they cannot save the burden,
but themselves go into captivity.

3
Listen to me, O house of Jacob,
all the remnant of the house of Israel,
who have been borne by me from your birth,
carried from the womb;

4
even to your old age I am he,
even when you turn gray I will carry you.
I have made, and I will bear;
I will carry and will save.

5
To whom will you liken me and make me equal,
and compare me, as though we were alike?

6
Those who lavish gold from the purse,
and weigh out silver in the scales—
they hire a goldsmith, who makes it into a god;
then they fall down and worship!

7
They lift it to their shoulders, they carry it,
they set it in its place, and it stands there;
it cannot move from its place.
If one cries out to it, it does not answer
or save anyone from trouble.

8
Remember this and consider,[a]
recall it to mind, you transgressors,

9
remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like me,

10
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, “My purpose shall stand,
and I will fulfill my intention,”

11
calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man for my purpose from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have planned, and I will do it.

12
Listen to me, you stubborn of heart,
you who are far from deliverance:

13
I bring near my deliverance, it is not far off,
and my salvation will not tarry;
I will put salvation in Zion,
for Israel my glory.

Matthew 13 is especially rich in wisdom. I won't quote it all here, except for the most relevant part, but if you like parables you should definitely read it.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13&version=NRSV

Matthew 13:10-17 said:

10 Then the disciples came and asked him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered, “To you it has been given to know the secrets[b] of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For to those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away.
13 The reason I speak to them in parables is that ‘seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand.’
14
With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah that says:

‘You will indeed listen, but never understand,
and you will indeed look, but never perceive.


15 
For this people’s heart has grown dull,
    and their ears are hard of hearing,
        and they have shut their eyes;
        so that they might not look with their eyes,
    and listen with their ears,
and understand with their heart and turn—
    and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.

17 Truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but did not see it, and to hear what you hear, but did not hear it.

God is glad to give you his help, if you're humble enough to just ask for it.

James 1:5-8 said:

5
If any of you is lacking in wisdom, ask God, who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and it will be given you.

6
But ask in faith, never doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind;

7, 8
for the doubter, being double-minded and unstable in every way, must not expect to receive anything from the Lord.

Proverbs Chapter 2 tells us that god is glad to give us wisdom.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+2&version=NRSV

Proverbs Chapter 2 : The Value of Wisdom said:

6
For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;

Everything is there in the Bible, if you're just willing to open your eyes to see it and your ears to hear it.

To anyone who says I'm forcing my religion on you. Grow up. I'm merely showing you a door. Walk through it or don't. Where you go in life is up to you. Believe what I say or don't. Your life is in your own hands. Do what you will with it.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I wouldn't poke this thread with a five foot stick. However one specific part stood out:

Occams razor

That may be the most abused razor of all time. So much so Galileo himself wrote about its misuse hundreds of years after its creation.

When everyone thought the world was flat, the simplest version was that the world wasn't moving so therefor it must not be moving per Occam's Razor.

http://anthonypeake.com/occams-razor-as-the-arbiter-of-scientific-truth/

Quote:

Surely there can't be multiple "truths" can there?

Actually, I see no reason on a philosophical level that one set of logic has to apply universally, or one set of morality has to apply universally. Whether it be per person, situation, or deity. While not necessarily probable, it is entirely possible that one person is allowed to abort babies, and another is not, and we are judged according to our specific sets of rules with our conscious being the arbiter.

And our thought that "God cannot be both perfect and inconsistent" is purely a man-made fallacy.

The laws of physics vary throughout the universe. Why can't logic, morality, God and/or Gods, and more?

Who is to say--and in fact history screams the converse--that how we think of physics, religion, and God are finally "correct" and we're not walking around with huge blindspots and unnecessary constraints in our understanding? We are almost certainly living in another era of "flat-world science."

I am absolutely willing to believe God exists or doesn't exist. I am not willing to believe that I understand everything, or that it can be as simple and clear-cut as people make it out to be.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
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Who is to say--and in fact history screams the converse--that how we think of physics, religion, and God are finally "correct" and we're not walking around with huge blindspots and unnecessary constraints in our understanding?

Exactly, and that's what science is all about, looking for answers but being open-minded to new viewpoints. That's the problem with religion--and politics too, incidentally--everyone is so thoroughly convinced they have the one right answer and that anyone who doesn't agree is delusional/going to burn in hell/both.

By the way, don't take what I said in my previous post too seriously: I was mostly just trolling. ;)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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You can quote the entire Bible. It's just a text. It doesn't mean anything in itself. At best, it can express universal wisdom. At worst, it makes empty threats and tempts foolish people with empty promises of rewards. Well, at worst, people take it upon themselves to cause destruction and suffering in the name of earning rewards. I digress. Keep going. You've almost got me convinced! :D

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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bam, it doesn't bother me in the least bit that you don't believe me.

Let's see what happens when people find out the truth :

Revelations 6:12-16 said:

12
When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and there came a great earthquake; the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood,
13
and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree drops its winter fruit when shaken by a gale.
14
The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15
Then the kings of the earth and the magnates and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains,
16
calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Punishments such as those are from 1000's of years ago, when sentences were much harsher. It was before the time of grace that Jesus bought with his blood. Have you read the story of the adulteress who was caught in the act? Many men wanted to stone her to death because that was the law according to Deuteronomy. Jesus began to write in the sand, telling each man in turn what he had been doing the other weekend (committing adultery or various other mortal sins), and each in turn left. When all her accusers were gone, Jesus asked her where her accusers were, and she said they are all gone. So Jesus then said to her :

John 8:10-11 said:

“Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, sir.”[b] And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.”

Hebrews 9:22 said:

22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Jesus shed his own blood so that we might be forgiven our sins, because there is no sacrifice of animal or treasure that could ever forgive them.

Hebrews 10 : Christ's Sacrifice Once and for All
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+10&version=NRSV

Hebrews 10:1-10 said:

Hebrews 10

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All

1
Since the law has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the true form of these realities, it[a] can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make perfect those who approach.

2
Otherwise, would they not have ceased being offered, since the worshipers, cleansed once for all, would no longer have any consciousness of sin?

3
But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin year after year.

4
For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5
Consequently, when Christ[b] came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body you have prepared for me;

6
in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.

7
Then I said, ‘See, God, I have come to do your will, O God’
(in the scroll of the book[c] it is written of me).”

8
When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),
9
then he added, “See, I have come to do your will.” He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.
10
And it is by God’s will[d] that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The shortcoming of the law is that it condemns everyone equally. But the power of grace is that everyone who believes on the name of Jesus Christ and repents has their sins forgiven.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

Say what you want about its authority, but no work of literature has ever wielded as powerful of imagery as has the Bible. Those were some good passages from Revelations.



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