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What is Hypnosis? (i need YOUR OPINION)
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Does the FDA honestly regulate that?

No, unless you are using equipment. There is government involvement regarding things like surgical procedures, but I doubt that extends into harmless things like mind control. And while I don't think agencies like the AMA are technically ran by the government, they definitely work close enough to be considered official. (e.g., Lose your license, lose your right to practice medicine.)

A lot of medical practices are self-regulated, which is better than nothing, but still not proof of anything other than a standard and consistent level of quackery.

REVISION:

For example, I got LASIK surgery a few years ago. I didn't go to the board of LASIK surgeons to figure out if I wanted to do it or not. I read about the scientific reason why it works from objective third party sources. Once convinced it was legitimate, I then checked out the self-regulations and picked a guy who met their qualifications.

(And because the FDA is involved with medical equipment, then I trusted that the device itself was up to par.)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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They are quite literally in different halves of your brain.

The entire brain is me. ???

EDIT: Here's an interesting video on conscious and subconscious processes. There's actually a lot of odd stories about patients who have undergone this surgery ...

To summarize:

A guy allegedly has brain surgery that disconnects the two hemispheres of his brain from one another (i.e., they can no longer communicate). He says it doesn't feel any different (i.e., he can't detect it). ::)

To demonstrate, they put him in front of a computer, having him stare at a dot on the screen. A word or image is flashed on the screen on one side of the center dot. If it's on the right, the left[1] hemisphere gets the information, which is allegedly where his conscious mind is. It must also be where speach processing is done. :-X He explains to the tester the words or images that he sees.

When they flash an image on the right, he is dumbfounded. He doesn't know what he saw. Or at least, the "conscious" hemisphere of his brain doesn't. Apparently the left hemisphere only gets to control the convenient parts that don't spoil the fun (i.e., not his vocal cords, tongue, mouth, etc.). The tester then asks him to close his eyes and draw with his left hand. He mysteriously draws some rendition of the same word or object that was on the screen, but doesn't know why he did it. ::) Apparently we're supposed to believe that the "right" (i.e., left) side of his brain is completely independent and operating entirely on its own, apparently operating the left side of his body? :-X Not only that, it is capable of drawing without seeing what he's drawing. I wonder if he can walk, or pass something seemlessly between hands. ::)

Mysteriously, his eyes are still blinking in sychronization. :-X I'm not qualified to say that it's not possible, but it certainly looks questionable to me. I call bullshit. :P

I certainly have a better tool. About half the professional hypnotherapists I know in town come from other backgrounds like psychology or are still doctors, and many of them do therapy exclusively via hypnosis now. Can't argue with results.

I would be more inclined to say that the "doctors" you've worked with are quacks. ::)

I repeat; a lot of hypnotherapists are also doctors.

Don't get me started on Canadian doctors... :-X

References

  1. I guess they're referring to the sides of his brain from our perspective for no fucking reason at all...
23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

The entire brain is me. ???

And it has various different parts.

bamccaig said:

A guy allegedly ...

Okay, I think we're going to stop here. I could post any study and you'll just call BS on it simply because it doesn't fit your worldview. Do your own research on corpus callosotomy if you like. You'll get the same information.

Quote:

I would be more inclined to say that the "doctors" you've worked with are quacks. ::)

bambam is inclined to say that people who disagree with him are wrong. I am shocked by this. Shocked.

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Hard Rock
Member #1,547
September 2001
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bamccaig said:

A guy allegedly has brain surgery that disconnects the two hemispheres of his brain from one another (i.e., they can no longer communicate). He says it doesn't feel any different (i.e., he can't detect it). ::)To demonstrate, they put him in front of a computer, having him stare at a dot on the screen. A word or image is flashed on the screen on one side of the center dot. If it's on the right, the left[1] hemisphere gets the information, which is allegedly where his conscious mind is. It must also be where speach processing is done. :-X He explains to the tester the words or images that he sees.When they flash an image on the right, he is dumbfounded. He doesn't know what he saw. Or at least, the "conscious" hemisphere of his brain doesn't. Apparently the left hemisphere only gets to control the convenient parts that don't spoil the fun (i.e., not his vocal cords, tongue, mouth, etc.). The tester then asks him to close his eyes and draw with his left hand. He mysteriously draws some rendition of the same word or object that was on the screen, but doesn't know why he did it. ::) Apparently we're supposed to believe that the "right" (i.e., left) side of his brain is completely independent and operating entirely on its own, apparently operating the left side of his body? :-X Not only that, it is capable of drawing without seeing what he's drawing. I wonder if he can walk, or pass something seemlessly between hands. ::)Mysteriously, his eyes are still blinking in sychronization. :-X I'm not qualified to say that it's not possible, but it certainly looks questionable to me. I call . :P

I haven't really been following the rest of the thread but so I'm not sure what this has to do with hypnosis, but from what you said it's one the case studies they'll teach you in Psych 101. More at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

<edit>
I thought they didn't perform this anymore (It used to be a lot more common) but it looks like its still done today. I imagine though it's a last resort since the side effects and are much more well known today.

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Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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There were some posts above about LD'ing and I figured I'd just blather in general about it. I don't feel compelled to target individual sentences here and there.

A couple of points to mull over:

- If you try to do something in a dream, and it doesn't happen, it's largely because you're not totally lucid. There are levels of lucidity, and not everyone gets all the way there every time. Learn how to stabilize your dream before you try doing anything. Google will help you with that. If there's anything in your dream that is fuzzy then you're not fully lucid. When you are, everything comes into focus at once. Literally. All your senses should be on a razor's edge -- everything should feel more real than it possibly can. You won't need glasses, your hearing will be perfect, and you won't have to move your eyes around to 'focus' on things because this is 100% in your mind, and everything can and will be in focus already. Focus is, after all, a byproduct of how your eyes operate.

- It's entirely possible to dream that you're having a lucid dream. And yet you're not, because you'll find you have no control over the dream. It happens fairly often to me.

- Again, if you're not fully lucid you'll have a limited ability to do things. Asking people for help in the dream is an easy way to get around that. If you ask for something and they don't comply, you're either not lucid, or you're being a dick about it. Dream characters sometimes will tell you to sod off if you're being a total tool, lucid or otherwise.

- Lucid dreams are normal dreams, except that you are 'awake' and conscious and in control of your actions. However... just as there are differing states of wakefulness (groggy, hyper, alert, sluggish) there are differing states of lucidity.

- I know this sounds trite, but it absolutely applies to LDs. If you don't believe that something will happen, it won't. If you walk up to a brick wall and have even the slightest notion that you'll be stopped by it, you will. You gotta habeeb.

- Practice. Practice more. At first I totally sucked and couldn't do much, but now I'm in complete, full control of my LDs. The only thing outside my control is the duration of the dream. Some are short; some are long. I can use autosuggestion to influence the subject matter of my dreams, in the hopes that I'll have a familiar dream that will cause me to recognize that I'm dreaming. Make no mistake: this did not come easy for me. I have slaved away at it each and every night for over three years.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Sirocco said:

If you try to do something in a dream, and it doesn't happen,

I've punched holes in the bedroom wall dreaming about fighting.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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When I was a kid I used to roll out of bed all the time. Not a great way to start your morning!

Heh... to me the freaky ones are the false awakenings, where I'll "wake up", proceed into the bathroom, start brushing my teeth... then suddenly wake up all over again, only this time for real :)

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Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I hate when somebody is beating the crap out of me in a dream, but I cannot fight back or yell because I know I'm dreaming. :-X

I should set up a camera to see if I ever do slow motion punches or open my mouth without making a sound. 8-)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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How about "getting up", and you actually do, but you're not actually awake? I've done that on occasion. Hasn't happened since I was a kid. But one time I walked outside, around the house and came in another door. Another time I actually went and took a bath. One time my alarm was going off, and for the life of me I couldn't turn it off, ended up finding my walkman, opening it up and cracking it in half :( That didn't make me happy when I realized what happened. Recently my alarm was going off, and I couldn't turn the damn thing off (a theme perhaps?), hit the alarm many many times, tried different buttons and NOTHING helped! Then I woke up, hit sleep, and went back to sleep ;D

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I hate when somebody is beating the crap out of me in a dream

You need to ban him immediately :P

How about "getting up", and you actually do, but you're not actually awake?

I was doing that fairly often about 4 years ago, I'd dream I'd open my eyes, stare at the ceiling a bit, and decide to get up. It's difficult to sit up when you're actually laying on your stomach.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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hit the alarm many many times, tried different buttons and NOTHING helped!

I think I posted about that same dream already in this thread. :-[

As far as I know I don't ever actually do things in my sleep, but my younger brother did once. He was just power walking in circles around the kitchen table around 1AM.

Me> What are you doing?
Him> Looking for my shoes.
Me> Go to bed.
Him> Okay.

He didn't remember it the next day.

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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How about "getting up", and you actually do, but you're not actually awake? I've done that on occasion.

Yep. That's ye olde false awakening, and I didn't start having them until I was 22 or thereabouts. That's what clued me in to to lucid dreaming. Now I have them fairly often. It's kinda cool because you're already semi-lucid, so if you recognize what's going on you can get a quick n' easy lucid dream. The problem is that you really are about to wake up, so it won't last long.

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Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Oh, another thing I used to do:

A while back when I lived with my dad, I'd skip school a lot, and stay home and sleep much of the day. At a certain point I would get a bad "feeling" that usually meant someone was about to come home, even when I was asleep. A few times the feeling was so strong that it not only made me realize I was sleeping, but I was able to force myself awake after much strain (it was really hard). Most times (that I remember) I was actually right, not long after I woke up, my dad came home (even though it was a rather odd time for him to come home). Usually what I tried to do was move a limb or sit up while sleeping, when I actually manage to move, it immediately wakes me up, but actually moving something is the hard part.

Sirocco said:

Yep. That's ye olde false awakening, and I didn't start having them until I was 22 or thereabouts. That's what clued me in to to lucid dreaming. Now I have them fairly often. It's kinda cool because you're already semi-lucid, so if you recognize what's going on you can get a quick n' easy lucid dream. The problem is that you really are about to wake up, so it won't last long.

How many levels deep have you gone? I'm at least at 4-5 levels deep.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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It's kind of eerie when dreams sync up with real world events. I'm having this nice, bizarre dream, and all of a sudden something happens in my dream that parallels some noise in the real world. But the events that lead up to that noise in my dream were so structured, it's like I knew in 15 minutes that I'd be hearing that noise. ???

I think it has to do with the fact that you can dream in fast forward. It's like the dream is in Narnia time or something. >:(

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I used to have sleep paralysis. Do you ever feel the decreasing consciousness of falling asleep? I'd do that, but suddenly I'd have a "wet blanket" dropped on me sort of a feeling. I'd have to concentrate especially hard to get myself to move, and when I did, the "wet blanket" feeling would leave. It makes for a long night when you don't fall entirely asleep, and you wonder about every little bump in the night.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

GameCreator
Member #2,541
July 2002
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I don't have any super powers except that I wake up just a few minutes before my alarm would go off, 99% of the time.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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I wake up just a few minutes before my alarm

When I get into a routine that happens.

Recently I went to sleep in the wee hours, intending to just catch a 3 hour nap. I ended up sleeping through my phone's alarm. I had an important appointment at 10am.

When I woke up, my eyes blasted open and I bolted up immediately and grabbed my phone.

10:00am exactly.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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How many levels deep have you gone? I'm at least at 4-5 levels deep.

I'm really not sure. I know I've gone back to sleep while in a dream, so I suppose I've had at least one multi-stage dream :) Sometimes I'll have a brief episode where it seems like I can drop into and out of a dream just by opening and closing my eyes. I can usually do that four or five times before I drop out (i.e. wake up) for good.

Quote:

I used to have sleep paralysis.

Very, very, scary shit. From what I've been told the best, sure-fire method of inducing a lucid dream is WILD (wake induced lucid dream), where you simply remain perfectly still and wait until your body falls asleep, leaving your mind free to consciously jump into a dream. The problem for me is that the gateway to that state involves sleep paralysis, and that's not cool at all. It's a terrible feeling and even I get freaked out by it.

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Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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When I was in school I would regularly "wake up, but not really." It was practically a daily thing. My alarm would go off, I would wake up and shut it off, get out of bed, and start getting ready for school, and then my mom would yell at me to get up. I'd yell back at her, "I AM UP!!!11 >:(" She'd yell at me that I am not up and then I'd wake up and realize I was still in bed sleep. :P Sometimes I would fall back asleep multiple times in the same morning and this would repeat. She'd think I was lying, but I honstly thought I was up! :-[

When I was young I used to sleep walk a bit. One night when I was probably 7 or 8, I allegedly walked down stairs (we had really steep stairs in my original house), went outside, and walked half way down[1] my driveway[2]. As the story goes, my mother heard a sound, woke up, and went downstairs to check. She found my baby blanket, which I used to like to sleep with, laying at the door. :P She opened the door and looked outside and apparently saw me walking away... :-X She called out to me and I apparently responded and came back and went back to bed without saying a word. :P I always wondered where I was going and where I might have woken up if she hadn't caught me. :P

I think I've allegedly slept walked a few other times (that people know of), but I don't remember any other stories. My brother allegedly swore in his sleep when he was like 10 (and we weren't permitted to swear until well into high school). I guess my mother woke up in the middle of the night and as she was passing by our bedroom door, she heard my brother yell out, "SHIT!" Shortly after, I guess he yelled, "IT HAPPENED ON THE BUS!" After that he was silent again. ;D

I've heard my brother talk in his sleep a few times too. Allegedly I have done it also, but I don't think anyone ever witnessed anything memorable enough to ... remember. :)

References

  1. My driveway was a hill, and probably close to 120 ft in length.
  2. Va zl haqrejrne, fvapr gung'f nyy V jber gb orq. :-X
james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

Sirocco said:

When you are, everything comes into focus at once. Literally. All your senses should be on a razor's edge -- everything should feel more real than it possibly can.

This is exactly how my memories of LDs feel; however, I'm yet to find a strong enough correlation between my behaviour in LDs and real-life to believe that I was actually in control.

Quote:

now I'm in complete, full control of my LDs

I'm still utterly unconvinced. The next time you have a lucid dream, I want you to consciously think of two large numbers, memorize them, perform long division on them and then memorize the result. I guarantee that you will fail. Something as seemingly simple as visualising writing down the various stages of long division falls apart in a dream state. If you were genuinely conscious, you would be able to put your finger on why it was falling apart, and if you were genuinely in control you would be able to fix it.

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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The next time you have a lucid dream, I want you to consciously think of two large numbers, memorize them, perform long division on them and then memorize the result. I guarantee that you will fail. Something as seemingly simple as visualising writing down the various stages of long division falls apart in a dream state. If you were genuinely conscious, you would be able to put your finger on why it was falling apart, and if you were genuinely in control you would be able to fix it.

I will certainly give it a try, and I suspect it will succeed and fail at the same time, but for entirely different reasons. I'm sure I'll have no trouble computing the number, but I'll likely lose the dream in the process. LDs require intense concentration to maintain for a long time. You have to stop and periodically stabilize the dream or else you'll lose it, and if you spend too much time obsessing over a particular element, your subconscious will happily take over once more and you'll drift off to your typical dream state. You can feel this happening and stop it with surprisingly little practice. I usually start to feel dizzy, and the periphery begins to blur badly. I can do a bit of hand rubbing and get another minute or so, or I can spin and really give myself some time to work with.

Maintaining a LD, I believe, is a subtle battle against your subconscious for control. You're in its back yard, breaking its rules, and it doesn't like that. It has a plan for your dream time, and you're stomping all over it. So the first chance it gets to take over, it will. If you pay attention to the dream, you stay in control. If you let your mind wander or focus on one thing for too long, you're vulnerable.

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Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Personally, I don't believe Sirocco's lucid dream story. :P When I dream, even when I'm lucid, the world doesn't suddenly become full and clear. That's because it's all in my mind and the world isn't complete. It isn't like a 3D game map that exists in its entirety. It is formed as I experience it and does change at will, even when I'm lucid. I don't notice that it isn't full and clear because I'm only focussed on one thing at a time, and that typically is always clear to me.

Moreso, I generally don't just experience dreams in the first person, but experience them in the 3rd person as well. My vision isn't blurred even during a normal dream because I'm not seeing through eyes. The image is directly implanted into my brain! Things can be fuzzy in that they aren't well defined, but that too doesn't change when I become lucid.

Your mind is only capable of handling so many thoughts and ideas at a time. There are limitations to our potential. It doesn't matter if you're lucid; your mind still has limitations. In fact, I would be more inclined to believe that your brain has a greater capacity or can achieve a greater capacity when you aren't lucid. I call bullshit. :P

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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I'm surrounded by noobs :)

bamccaig said:

Moreso, I generally don't just experience dreams in the first person, but experience them in the 3rd person as well.

I've never had a 3rd person dream. I'm guessing your mind is so focused on gaming it shapes your perception of things. Interesting. Very interesting, actually. Your experiences would indicate you're achieving what is commonly referred to as a low level of lucidity. There's no scientific way to gauge that since LDing is a 100% subjective thing, but if you're still seeing a bunch of fuzzy or poorly defined details you're definitely not well off.

Quote:

Your mind is only capable of handling so many thoughts and ideas at a time. There are limitations to our potential. It doesn't matter if you're lucid; your mind still has limitations.

Your conscious brain has numerous limitations, and your subconscious has certain limitations as well, but it has access to far more raw knowledge and... let's call it computing power. When you're LDing both parts of your brain are active at the same time. Both are active, but one side is in more control than the other. Get it?

You can call BS all you want. If you don't attempt to improve what little LD skills you have, you'll never do anything with it. You spend a third of your life sleeping. Some of us want to enjoy that.

Start here if you're actually serious about LDing.

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Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I really do enjoy sleeping. I dream every night and love it. It's hard for me to get up because I don't want my dream to end (I can generally jump right back into a dream if I lay back down and go back to sleep). I have my fair share of lucid dreams as well. :)

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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bamccaig said:

Personally, I don't believe Sirocco's lucid dream story. :P When I dream, even when I'm lucid, the world doesn't suddenly become full and clear.

... weren't you berating me about anecdotal experience earlier?

Anyway, for my experience, I'm not good at lucid dreaming (not that I've tried very hard). Learning and experiencing hypnosis has definitely helped my sleep though; it used to take me 2 or 3 hours to get to sleep at night (yes, really) and now it takes ten minutes. I can set my internal alarm clock to wake up at arbitrary times (which I'll hit to within 5 minutes) and I either began dreaming again, or just started remembering it. Which is nice. 8-)

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