Have to post. Will have to edit.

I feel really ashamed for the delay. Nevertheless:

@Derezo

>The SC2 example is a very atypical career choice, like NFL Quarterback. He would be best to get advice regarding it from other professional players, I imagine... but I really don't know how the professional gaming industry works.

My point was that the hesitations, and the "I can't" aren't always pure lack of will, sometimes you really perhaps can't. And if the gamble is worth it.. That's where one has to decide. It's not really something you can encourage a person, you can only encourage him to gather up & process info regarding his decision, but not inspire him to go for it or not(unless you think you know the topic well..).

>You can only support them in accomplishing their goals, you can't really make them do it. They have to want to

That's a very complex statement.. Sometimes they DO want the result, but can't gather up to do what it takes, or are scared to fail, or it's too much effort for them, etc', etc'.. Sometimes if they get the kick, do it- they're grateful afterwards. I've had it, I do remember specific case when I gave the kick, and I think I was grateful few times to get it as well.. Although not sure(could've been long time ago, now ego is grown up too large).

about goals

Not sure if "PRO SC2 career" is a goal, although getting a sponsor & a popular stream- perhaps is. As well as advancing in tournaments, and winning money.. But specific goals are perhaps a good kick towards progress, you can't always know what's the right goal.. Kind of issue. Especially bad with speculative trading. Worked terrible for me, as failing to comply with them due to errors dragged more errors and unbalanced my mental state.

About #3 example in the OP thread.. Let's say that's the goal, and.. If I fail to achieve it, I'm frustrated. And nothing I can do about it. And if I do achieve it.. Erm, how does it help me? If I had it or not had it.. It doesn't matter.

>Visualize your goals and expectations and keep them on your mind as you work towards it. I find that when I have a very good vision of what it is that I want, the answers just come and things start popping up surrounding my goals.

Well, yes. Though issue is that A) you need to know what you do want B) you need to think of how to get it and C) you gotta do what it takes.
Sometimes all three are god damn hard. Usually I think first one is the most difficult

@Vanneto

You're either a Gay, or a very satisfied man :-\

@Weaponess

>Visualize your goals and expectations and keep them on your mind as you work towards it. I find that when I have a very good vision of what it is that I want, the answers just come and things start popping up surrounding my goals.

To a degree, but not always.. Sometimes we just care about the other person. Feel responsibility.

>I'm very skeptical about the influence of 'rational thought'.

We do what we want to do, we think about what we want to think. But there are things we can't miss, which can prevent us from doing what is not rational. I can imagine someone rushing to his job while being late, and crossing a road without looking. But I can't really see them running in front of a bus that won't stop. I think that is because some rationality remains, even if we rush to work.

>For example: somebody who runs the

About counter-example does introduce place for rational thought..
I've that suspect we're lacking definitions & terms again.

I think it refers to:

By "we" I don't mean: humankind when communicating; I mean: us here discussing it.

What about the I must's? Favourable or not? What about somebody who is hunting the little green men who certainly steal his/her vitamins? Can't the limbless man dream about being a boxer? Couldn't that be a motivation for him to succeed in other things?

I think the keyword is 'rationality'. I believe somebody can be motivated without reason (rationality), or reasons (goals). Of course, all actions can be interpreted as having some reason or following some rules. I believe that reason and reasons aren't the origin of 'motivation' however; by a process of mutual influence, reason and motivation can be drawn closer to each other. (I think this is an important principle of science.)

If somebody molests a child, a common reaction/story would be to say:"that person didn't have any (good) reason to do that". Surely the molester must have had some motivation however; whether you interpret that as a reason is something else. Would you encourage someone to go hunt the aforementioned green men? You might say it is a delusion; and irrational. In the internal rational process of that person, it might make very much sense to think there are green men, and that those green men steal their vitamins, and therefor must be hunted down. It is in what I would call the social rational consensus that it becomes irrational.
'Reason' and 'rationality' are becoming synonymous with 'good'. Have you never felt like shit after doing 'the rational thing'? Acting in accordance to the social rational consensus might get you positive social feedback however. This feedback is most effective if the subject can relate this feedback to present thoughts/emotions, and not to other 'existing things'^[1].
I don't think you can decide for another person what is good for them, or will make them happy. You can try to notice the things someone tries and/or accomplishes, or make 'the world'^[2] a bit of a less mean and unsurmountable thing for that person.
And maybe try to be considerate of what your remarks will mean to that person, and what things that person holds for certain at that moment.^[3][4]

I think you've misunderstood me, but I'm happy with your interpretation
Most of your post I agree with. But maybe you could explain how subjectivity describes the relationship between reason and desire, and perhaps that big 'ol hippy circle What is in the center and what is on the outside? Can you go around it? What does that signify? Etc.

@Derezo

What is this circle? Would you link me to some wiki article?

Append:
I've to say much more.

@Derezo, Weaponess

The topic is getting damn hard to follow. And for some reason, although I know I want to follow it, I'm.. Getting insanely delayed with it, for no reason. I think asking for forgiveness is actually relevant here.

>I think the keyword is 'rationality'. I believe somebody can be motivated without reason (rationality), or reasons (goals). Of course, all actions can be interpreted as having some reason or following some rules. I believe that reason and reasons aren't the origin of 'motivation' however; by a process of mutual influence, reason and motivation can be drawn closer to each other.

Agreed, there isn't necessarily a strict border between reason and motivation. There maybe reason to achieve something that motivates us, there maybe just blind lust to do it, that "it" can be momentary imminent thing, or a distant goal towards which we go following our reason which assures us we want it...

To a degree, above paragraph offers a reformulation to the renaming "big question" of the thread:

Assuming there is a distant goal we want, how to motivate ourselves(or others) to be following it? How to transform distant, general goal which can't be achieved here and now in to imminent motivation, to make one more small step towards it?

>'Reason' and 'rationality' are becoming synonymous with 'good'.

Yes they are. And the less they're affected with imminent short term wish, the "better" the reasoning is.

>There's a wiki link to Plutchik's Wheel of Emotions in my last post, but it should really be self explanatory. The wheel is in no way complete, though.

Thanks, found some readable stuff.. Curious, but doesn't look too scientific(what I found).

Just had the thought: 'being motivated' might be the opposite of 'letting go', 'being done with it', 'leaving it behind you'. Something that motivates you can be described as 'haunting' you like a irrational obsession.

The opening posts with several cases of working and not working, is a good start IMHO. Ideally we should make some case studies actually... (If we could find the motivation )

As for the emotional disk, utter crap in my opinion. Several versions? What does that tell? It doesn't open up any new thoughts in my case.

If your body was a business, thought would be like micro-management and emotions would be like macro-management. If you primarily live your life with emotions, then you are prone to error on the details. If you over-think things all the time you tend to lose scope of priorities.

A good sense of judgement is the arbitrator.

I'm not happy with that statement either!
Emotions are no mystery. You're thinking of women

Maybe I've been a little too Zen-like
The difference between a thought and a feeling is pretty clear. Feelings are felt in your body, thoughts are not. Thoughts just pass by and require motivation to do anything about them.

That's why I used the word emotion much less than the word feeling. Hunger is not an emotion, but it is a feeling, and it is certainly a motivator.

Emotions are feelings, and are felt in your body, but feelings are not necessarily emotions.

I'm not sure I agree, but after writing a paragraph about it I realized it began to venture off into the mind-body problem.

Extremely passive, internal actions.
I was referring to actions in the sense of creating change in the external world. You can sit around and think about something until the cows come home, but the only thing that will be different is your thoughts. That is, until you actually do something about it .

I don't think unattainable is correct. That's too subjective. Breaking a large goal down, such as 'become a journalist', isn't because the goal is unattainable, but rather that the goal is more involved than, say, 'brush my teeth in the morning'.

If you goal is to brush your teeth every morning, there really aren't any steps to it after you have all of the provisions necessary. You just need to have the motivation to actually do it.
If you're trying to become a journalist, you're going to have to do some research into college or university programs, potential employers, you'll need to attend that schooling, you'll have to write a resume, apply for jobs, practice and hone your skills, among other things I'm sure. The steps to getting the necessary 'provisions' aren't as simple as 'enter the bathroom'.

Haha, I love these type of discussions, but I do find that the human love for 'opinion' often gets in the way when discussing the objective nature of subjective experience. After all, the God did it all, right?
I am a monoist in a scientific sense. I've studied the brain in simple ways by watching a huge series of neuroscience lectures (which was largely sparked by a brief period of marijuana use). Seems pretty solid that way. Biological machines. Mechanical animals.

However, in a philosophical sense, I stray away from the idea of monoist and do start to think that it is possible everything is the way that it is because of a sort of 'underlying natural form' that is separate from the things. In some ways I agree with the way Plato put it, that things have "essences". Qualia. The colour Red is and always was, and I cannot explain the experience of it.

I sometimes feel that this is the true nature of evolution. Not that natural selection isn't a real thing, but that evolution is a natural progression towards achieving a pre-existing expression of natural form rather than being simply a series of 'accidents' with no purpose. Sort of throws free will out the window, but whatever. Red plus Blue is always Purple. It just gets more complicated than that

Perhaps urgency is the state of "now"? The direct, moment-by-moment experience of consciousness which is the only place we can truly affect the outside world. Dreaming up the future doesn't create it, it requires action in the present moment to begin progression towards that dream. Regretting the past, or just dwelling on it, likewise has no external effect. It is only in the present moment that we do anything, and it is only in the present moment than we can.

At least, that's the way it appears to me

Existence sucks, and it's so damn persistent!!