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[Philosophy] Observer-Observation Connection
Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Derezo said:

but that evolution is a natural progression towards achieving a pre-existing expression of natural form rather than being simply a series of 'accidents' with no purpose.

I'm starting to see this, too. Much in the way a particular room resonates at specific frequencies. There's just something that's naturally inherent in the system, by nature of the rules. As in, a cup gives birth to the water that fills it.

I'll often times look around and think "What a bizarre world!" only later to have had the thought lead me to a complete 180 with "Well what else would you expect? Seems pretty much as un-bizarre as we could make it!"

There's a real "inevitability" to the structure that is the world we live in, from the ideas that are born in our brains to the unique properties of the elements in the periodic table. It's very "has-to-have-been-this-way".

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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@Derezo
>I'm not sure I agree..

You went far in your thoughts!
And, however I see your thoughts as actions. As just typing them down here, is very very easy. The action here, is done by your mind and it is your thoughts. More than that, thoughts change the state of your mind, affecting your behaviour in matters may not require further conscious thinking at all.

@Weaponess
>This also implies a greater somewhat unattainable goal is necessary. I think people usually refer to those as "dreams"

Indeed it does! And I hear it from people all around: having a "dream"(and following it)- is great. Best if it's something unachievable.

>Did you ever have a thought you knew was not real?...

I'm not sure I completely understand it, but looks like you claim sources of motivation aren't rational.. To be specific I think we have to define rationality. If we have specific large goals, smaller motivations maybe very much rationally derived from the larger goals.. In various other cases, motivation maybe derived from basic will not to die, which is also rational..

>So the blue things are....

Wha? Though to be honest I think it would be wiser you don't try to clarify that to me. I'll try to understand it again, later. Jeez this thread is getting complex :-/

>I think I'm closer to solving the motivation problem by also assuming happiness is desirable...

Sounds good. I wonder if it can be put together with what under the asterisks **

@Derezo & Weaponess
>A better word would be: "/not readily available goal/", I agree. But perhaps the 'brushing my teeth' is part of a 'staying clean' or 'having good teeth forever', both of which can't really be observed.

Well, here we go. For achieving a "bachelor of science" we had decided to "track the progress", which is somewhat visible with accomplishment of various courses.

How do you motive yourself to brush your teeth? :-/
Doing it is vital, but it doesn't advance you anywhere.

***

Long ago I heard of a statement of being "here and now", and that majority of people actually do not do it. This means we learn to realize the things we're doing, get feedback from the things we're doing, and to learn to enjoy the current moment of our day to day life. I sometimes am getting in to that state, even while doing simple "automatic" tasks.. Works well if you're alone without anyone at home.

[edited grammar]

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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type568 said:

How do you motive yourself to brush your teeth? :-/

While I can't speak for anyone else, I am motivated by the feeling of millions of microscopic bacteria colonizing on their surfaces. ;D

Quote:

Long ago I heard of a statement of being "here and now", and that majority of people actually do not do it.

Meditation is the practice of being present and the number is rising. I read a statistic on meditation a few months back that showed something like a twice over increase in people who meditate from the mid 90's to 2008 in North America. I can't recall the sources, though.

Being in the moment and seeing things as they are can actually be very frightening. The truth is much stranger than fiction.

My love for the Buddha teachings tends to pit me against fundamentalists from both religion and science, not to mention the apathetic majority. :(

[edit]

There's a real "inevitability" to the structure that is the world we live in

It is only because I agree that I didn't respond to your post, Mark. ;D

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

weapon_S
Member #7,859
October 2006
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The reason dreams need to be vague is that you shouldn't be discouraged. I.e. you shouldn't have observations of it being not true.

type568 said:

In various other cases, motivation maybe derived from basic will not to die, which is also rational.

It is justifiable and inherently sympathetic; but is it rational?

Quote:

Wha? Though to be honest I think it would be wiser you don't try to clarify that to me. I'll try to understand it again, later.

Don't try too hard to understand it. It's not made for that. Feel free to ignore my explanation... and drawing.

It's very "has-to-have-been-this-way".

Now substitute the "It's" with "It seems to me" and think about it.

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