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Marijuana
Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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SODA POP! It rules my life! My Allegro avatar is the logo of one of the most popular soda pops of all time! It has lead me into programming, alchoholism, chasing women, and reading pcmag.com! Soda pop must be banned immediately!

The mention of alchoholism ruined the joke for me.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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decepto, use lowercase b's

And ask any heroin addict which gateway drug he did first, soda pop, cigarettes, marajuana, or the Obama plan.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

ImLeftFooted
Member #3,935
October 2003
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I knew one girl who smoked pot every day. She had the maturity of the age she started smoking.

Her non-existent family might have also had something to do with it. ...But then again most people around here had crappy families. Ah the joys of a wide middle class -- family issues for everyone*!

* I meant 'Most.' But that doesn't sound as cool.

decepto
Member #7,102
April 2006
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decepto, use lowercase b's

But I like crappy uppercased EVERYTHING, like in Frontpage from 1994.

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Boom!

Timorg
Member #2,028
March 2002

I take a large dose of anti-psychotics to make me "normal", I am well and truly addicted, its illegal to have if they are not prescribed to you, I cost the government a hell of a lot of money to stay sane.

Many people self-medicate for mental health issues with pot, over the years I have got to know a few of them, (friends of friends.) I am convinced they weren't that crazy to begin with, my experience says that if you are prone to mental health issues, it triggers episodes and relapses.

Trust me, you don't want to be mentally ill, and shouldn't do anything that could possibly move you down that path. So if you have mental illness in your family, just steer clear of the whole thing. I personally don't think it causes them, just triggers them.

That sounded a lot more anti-pot than I wanted it to, just if anyone decides to try pot because of this thread, be aware that it can trigger mental health issues.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
"c is much better than c++ if you don't need OOP simply because it's smaller and requires less load time." - alethiophile
OMG my sides are hurting from laughing so hard... :D

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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I don't mean to be insensitive, but can you tell us about the conditions and symptoms of your mental illness?

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Timorg
Member #2,028
March 2002

I have paranoid schizophrenia with obsessive-compulsive tendencies. But saying schizophrenia doesn't actually define anything, other than "recurring psychosis".

I have auditory hallucinations, (no voices telling me to do stuff, mainly screaming,) visual on really bad days. Over a 2-3 months my mood slowly climbs to I get really elated and happy, and I dump down into a massive depression, and it takes all that is in me to even get out of bed, but the alternative is hospital, so I get up and function. As for the OC tendencies, its more I don't always trust what I see, like when I go to bed and I can see the door is locked, they key will be in the locked position, I need to physically touch it, for it to sink into my brain that its actually locked.

I think that about covers my symptoms, but 1200mg of anti-psychotics (seroquel) keeps the whole thing mostly at bay, to the point I can ignore the auditory hallucinations, I live with the mood swings.

The drug works really well, but then it loses its effectiveness, and the psych ups the dose, and its the same pattern every 9-10 months. 1200mg seems to be working, has for 18+ months. I am something of a medical curiosity, usually small doses work, where it takes a massive large dose, so I have been in a couple of clinical reports about the effectiveness of the drug.

The only side effect of that I suffer from the drug is they like to knock me out for 10-12 hours, and I get the anecdotal cartilage thinning.

I think that about covers it. This is the reason you don't want to be mentally ill, and pot has been linked to causing schizophrenia.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
"c is much better than c++ if you don't need OOP simply because it's smaller and requires less load time." - alethiophile
OMG my sides are hurting from laughing so hard... :D

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Timorg said:

and pot has been linked to causing schizophrenia.

I am affraid that you are wrong

It's not causing. It's emphasizing.

OT, I am smoking for a dozen year now, and for me it's like everything: too much is too bad.

Too much alcohol, too much tobacco, too much food, too much water, ... the 'too' is the 'good' enemy.

PLUS from my personal experience, I can say that the effect really vary from one to another.

High consumption lead to a demotivation. Some are able to work against it, those who can't should stop smoke pot.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Timorg... You sound like my sister after she ate the wrong mushrooms...

----
Oh... Bieber! I thought everyone was chanting Beaver... Now it doesn't make any sense at all. :-/

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Ha, also: for those who have never tried, shut up. Yeah, shut up, really.

How can you dare to talk about something you just don't know ?

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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if you've never tried it, you dont know what you're talking about.

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

I once had a dooby and slept like a log. But I doubt it would keep working with regular usage, so I never did it again.

Timorg
Member #2,028
March 2002

Well of the 2 linked studies that "refute" it.

http://journals.lww.com/co-psychiatry/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2008&issue=03000&article=00011&type=abstract

Quote:

Summary: From the evidence that exists, it appears that the above view is unlikely and that cannabis may even have benign effects on brain structure, not producing deleterious damage. Its neurochemical interactions with the dopaminergic pathway, however, may, particularly in genetically vulnerable individuals, have adverse consequences.

and the other http://college.usc.edu/news/december_2005/denson.html it talks about depression not schizophrenia.

In this case wikipedia is wrong, anything off there you need to check the sources.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
"c is much better than c++ if you don't need OOP simply because it's smaller and requires less load time." - alethiophile
OMG my sides are hurting from laughing so hard... :D

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

for those who have never tried, shut up. Yeah, shut up, really.

I could say something about heroine, too, something I've heard people say about it, people who have personally experienced the hell. But I guess I should shut up. And I should probably say to all other teachers in our school to shut up. I don't think anyone of them has used other drugs than alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and other legal stuff.

Today I was a stand-in for our teacher in health education (he wasn't feeling well :P). We talked about alcohol and we sang a song by Juice Leskinen about alcoholism. I underlined the parts in the lyrics that describe the delirium caused by alcoholism, very alike something a friend to a friend of mine has experienced. I guess I shouldn't have said anything. I drink alcohol, I might even get drunk once or twice a year, but I guess I'm in no position to speak.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Evert said:

Boy, some of you people have really perfected overreacting to a fine art, haven't you? ::)

Why not? It's fun :)

nonnus29 said:

I've never tried pot or any other drug, I was always terrified of drugs because what if I like it too much? I don't want to be an addict living on the street.

Evert said:

What is it with you people? Why wouldn't you be able to try it and then stop after a while?

Why should nonnus29 be accountable to you for his own personal reasons for avoiding drugs for himself?

In my opinion, he's quite right to think the way he does. Not everyone has the kind of willpower you seem to assume, and it's very respectable to recognise that this might apply to oneself.

In any case, whether these drug problems exist or not (since it's obviously a controversial subject and no one can agree on anything about it), most of us have been brought up in a society where our role models (teachers and parents) impress on us that drugs are dangerous. If you want an honest answer to the question "What is it with you people?" then there it is.

Evert said:

Another thing: why would using drugs make you homeless (I always assumed the relation went the other way around)?

The going theory is that drugs interfere with a healthy, productive lifestyle. They render you unfit for work, so you lose income. The power of a drug addiction is such that as your budget collapses, the drugs will be the last thing to go. When you've stopped paying rent, been evicted, and absolutely run out of money altogether, then you'll sooner starve than give up the drugs.

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kazzmir
Member #1,786
December 2001
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And I should probably say to all other teachers in our school to shut up.

FWIW, there is a difference between banning drugs from the general public and banning it from children. Drugs should be banned from people that aren't mature enough to handle it, but who is capable of making such a decision? Its generally ok to categorize all children (definately under 16, probably 18-20) as not being able to handle drugs and should be lectured as such. But to label all drugs as being bad for everyone is intolerable, especially if you haven't tried it.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Why should nonnus29 be accountable to you for his own personal reasons for avoiding drugs for himself?

Who says he is? Anyway, I wasn't necessarily responding to him but in general to people making similar statements (I'd have left out his name to make that distinction, but the quoting system puts it in automatically).
What amazes me is how many people seem to think that use of any kind of drugs inevitably sends them down a path destined to have them end up as homeless drug (think heroin) addicts. Which is bollocks.
I guess the terms "hard drug" and "soft drug", despite being English, don't actually carry any meaning in English, do they?

Quote:

most of us have been brought up in a society where our role models (teachers and parents) impress on us that drugs are dangerous.

Of course they're dangerous. No different from alcohol and tobacco in that sense. What, you think the school program says drugs are perfectly fine and safe to use?
So how come tourists forget this little bit of common sense wisdom and end up overdoing their drug intake when they go to the Netherlands?

Quote:

If you want an honest answer to the question "What is it with you people?" then there it is.

Ok, so you're all brainwashed to believe that touching drugs, ever, will inevitably turn you into a life-long addict and society drop-out. Fine.

Quote:

The going theory is that drugs interfere with a healthy, productive lifestyle. They render you unfit for work, so you lose income. The power of a drug addiction is such that as your budget collapses, the drugs will be the last thing to go. When you've stopped paying rent, been evicted, and absolutely run out of money altogether, then you'll sooner starve than give up the drugs.

You're equating drug use and drug abuse, but you've probably been brainwashed to think these are the same thing. Yes, drug abuse will do that to you. Doesn't matter if it's marijuana, alcohol or nicotine (although I've never heard of anyone's life going down the gutter due to nicotine).

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Drugs are bad for society. Open your eyes. Yes, alcohol and tobacco is bad for society, too, but it just won't happen that alcoholics rob cars and people to get money for their addiction.

And I will never try heroine. What one guy said was that everyone would like it! He said something like "Imagine the best orgasm you ever had, or the best orgasm you ever could have. Imagine something 100 times better than that. That's what I felt." I have no reason to not believe that. And I have no reason to not believe I could feel that, too.

Evert said:

What is it with you people? Why wouldn't you be able to try it and then stop after a while?

That's probably the key question that leads to all drug abuse. People ask themselves this question before they decide to try it (along with the bullshit about one having to test it before one can talk about it). But after testing, the question will be a bit different. "Why couldn't I try this a bit longer? What's the difference in stopping now and stopping later?" The original question loses importance.

Sorry for telling this without experience of my own. Sorry for not bringing the drug addicts here and letting them tell these things to you. But I've heard so many of them telling these things that I see no point in it. Sure you must have heard similar authentic stories, too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

Evert said:

I guess the terms "hard drug" and "soft drug", despite being English, don't actually carry any meaning in English, do they?

We call them hard/easy or heavy/light in Hebrew :)

but it just won't happen that alcoholics rob cars and people to get money for their addiction.

And one of the main arguments for legalizing DRUG X is that the same will apply to DRUG X if it was legalized.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Will legalizing DRUG X make it cheaper? At least in Finland you can buy cheap illegal booze, while the legal booze is expensive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
avatar

but it just won't happen that alcoholics rob cars and people to get money for their addiction.

Are there any similarities between illicit acquisition and use of alcohol (such as during prohibition in the U.S.) and illicit acquisition and use of a drug that is illegal today?

I know that there was some organized crime based around illegal alcohol during prohibition, but I don't know how bad it was.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Will legalizing DRUG X make it cheaper? At least in Finland you can buy cheap illegal booze, while the legal booze is expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_during_and_after_prohibition

In short, yes. Cheap imported alcohol is another issue which has to do with different taxes on booze in neighboring countries. Drugs are expensive because they are fairly hard to manufacture (since it's illegal), hard to import (since it's illegal) and hard to sell (since it's illegal). I'm not saying we should legalize all drugs though... But a more nuanced discussion on the subject wouldn't hurt.

Don Freeman
Member #5,110
October 2004
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But a more nuanced discussion on the subject wouldn't hurt.

Exactly. A no bullshit discussion, not just a definite no and don't even care to look into all of the possibilities. ::)

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Drugs are bad for society.

No, drug abuse is bad for society.

Quote:

Yes, alcohol and tobacco is bad for society, too, but it just won't happen that alcoholics rob cars and people to get money for their addiction.

There you go as well, assuming that using drugs will turn you into an addicted criminal.
This is simply not true.
Funny you should mention it, I haven't heard of junkies mugging people or breaking into cars to get some cash to pay for drugs in a long, long time.

Quote:

That's probably the key question that leads to all drug abuse.

I hadn't posed it in that sense, but yes, it probably is. You know how some people have a hard time giving up smoking and other people just stop without any sort of problem? The same goes for other drugs. Using it will not make you addicted.

Quote:

Sorry for telling this without experience of my own.

It's not as if I've ever touched any of the stuff either, you know.

Quote:

Sorry for not bringing the drug addicts here and letting them tell these things to you. But I've heard so many of them telling these things that I see no point in it. Sure you must have heard similar authentic stories, too.

No, I haven't. Not from people I know anyway. But I do know loads of people who have given various soft drugs (to use that term) a try at some point and may still smoke some occasionally. But just as drinking a glass of beer on Friday night doesn't turn you into an alcoholic[1], smoking weed doesn't turn you into a junkie.

There's possibly another point that I've already alluded to above. If I wanted to get weed back home, I'd know how and where to get it: there are enough shops that have a licence to sell it that it's not hard to find one. If I wanted to get some in, say, Paris, I wouldn't have a clue where to go. Presumably if I wanted to, I'd have to get to know people who know people and conduct dealings in back alleys. And I'd have to worry about the quality of the stuff I was getting.
In that situation, I'd be associating with the wrong kind of people.

In an ideal world, people would not use drugs (except for medicinal purposes). That we don't live in said ideal world should be abundantly obvious by the fact that cigarettes are sold with big captions saying they cause lung cancer, and people still buy them or take up smoking. One way or the other, at least some people will be using drugs. Now, you can try to suppress this and force these people to virtually become criminals to do so in hopes that it will dissuade them (experience should tell you this doesn't work), or you can try to go easier on these people, make sure that if they want to use drugs, at least they're doing it in a way where you can keep an eye on what's happening and where they can be sure they're getting reasonably quality stuff (as opposed to any old junk). The only concern is then whether this leads to more people trying drugs (it probably does) and whether that in turn leads to more problematic drug addicts (and my claim, coming from a country with a liberal policy to drugs, is that it doesn't).

References

  1. Sure, there are some people for whom it does that, but in general it doesn't. These are the people who should never touch any potentially addictive substance whatsoever.


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