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Absolute proof that GOD EXIST (Pretty Cool)
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

Everyone who claims to be Christian and refuses to tell us how he copes with the demands of Matthew 5-7 is just a bigot and will burn in hell forever. >:(

Edit: Uhm, no. :P
But it'd be really interesting, because these are some extraordinary demands. It's easy to eat no pork, but how do you comply with that? I'd honestly like to know.

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
avatar

like a blind person refusing to believe in the world because they can't see it with their eyes.

This is a really bad analogy on par with the comic with the atheist fleas posted earlier. Even if I were religious I couldn't defend this argument. And anyway, the Bible doesn't prove God exists any more than the Harry Potter books prove wizards exist, or LOTR proves Hobbits and Dwarves exist. If you believe in it and it helps you get through life, great. Just don't hold it up as absolute evidence of God's existence, because it's not.

The Bible has a lot of wisdom in it. I'm not denying that. I forget who it was here that had it in their signature, but I agree with their quote (paraphrasing):

Quote:

The Bible has a lot of good ideas. God isn't one of them.

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

@Polybios
note that each of those demands are to protect human Christians and keep them strong in body and mind. failing to follow them has its own "punishments" associated with the deed. basically it makes you weaker and or leave you variable for other things to happen to you when you face hard times.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Leviticus 25:44 said:

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

A friend of mine says this means Russians, but not Swedes. Is it so? Why can't I own a Swede?

About who can approach the altar, Leviticus 21 said:

18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

Our vicar is near sighted and wears glasses. Should we collect money for laser surgery or shall we just stone him?

Leviticus 20:18 said:

If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.

While doing my military service, one of the guys told he had sex with his girlfriend, though she had her period. What do you do, I mean, one weekend off duty in a month. Anyway, should they be deported to Sweden or Russia? Sweden might be a bit easier, because of Schengen. But Sweden is almost our people. I mean Scandinavia, or Fenno-Scandia. And at least half a century of Nordic cooperation. But this guy was in the middle of his military service. How can such guy be deported to Russia? Actually it was Soviet at that time!

Exodus 21:7 said:

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

Since the quoted verses about the disgrace of homosexuality were literally only about men, and directed to men, and the modern interpretation is that it includes also lesbian love, could this verse be applied in my case? I have no daughters, but three sons. Can I still sell them as servants? Would they go free and I'd still get my money from them?

Leviticus 11:10 said:

But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean.

A friend of mine says eating oysters is bad, but not as bad as gay sex. I'm not sure.

All these are quotations (and modifications) from this writing, which I find most amusing:
{"name":"620410858.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/c\/ac1ae0b3fce75088e6fb01b790736bc4.jpg","w":468,"h":1200,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/c\/ac1ae0b3fce75088e6fb01b790736bc4"}620410858.jpg
Though I do find the writing amusing, I still consider the Bible not to be taken as a joke as a whole. But people who pick Bible verses to support their misogyny or homophobia should read this writing thoroughly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Elverion
Member #6,239
September 2005
avatar

And Elverion, the Bible is clearly against homosexuality. To say otherwise, or try to re-interpret it as supporting it is completely mis-guided.

I did no such thing. I just pointed out that all these anti-homosexuality bible quotes are strangely absent of even mentioning homosexuality. And you've combated that by not supplying a quote to the contrary, but rather more incredibly vague quotes about other things, things which your average Christian or whatever else doesn't complain about, are evil and people that are doing those things are sinners.

But, I'm doing that all in good fun. I just like to debate and poke holes in things. Maybe I should have been a lawyer instead. Anyways, even if the bible did say in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is wrong (which so far you guys have done a terrible job supporting), I still wouldn't care. I don't subscribe to your religion, I'm still going to be attracted to women (it's not a choice, in the same way you don't choose to like/dislike mustard), and it just doesn't matter either way. You're more than welcome to live your own life in any way you choose, whether through your own free choice or that of your cult-of-choice's book, and I won't raise issue with it so long as its within the law and not infringing on my own rights.

And you people wonder why you have any trouble winning over anyone that actually questions these things...

--
SolarStrike Software - MicroMacro home - Automation software.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

That one is for me:

Matthew 5-7 said:

Divorce
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Yes, because when two persons who once loved each other can't bear to be even in each other sight, they HAD to stay married and kill each other until one die.

Is that the bible definition of happiness ?

Let me tell you a real life story: I'm divorced. I know a lot of people around me who got divorced too. Some have left, some have been left. It's true that there is a hard part in each divorce story, and it's also true that most of the divorced are, after at least a few years, making a life with a new love. And even the lonesome are happier than when they were with their ex.
Sure there have been pain, but at least it's not lasting for life.
If you are in a hell life with your companion, YOU BOTH HAVE THE CHOICE TO KEEP YOUR LIFE A HELL OR CHANGE IT. It's just stupid to ruin your life with a relation that do not work anymore, whatever you try to do, just because of a random sentence in an old book.
And your companion isn't an object that YOU hold. He/She have his own brain to think.
And man, if you think that a man commit an adultery because he's in love and couch with a wife that already had a life before him, you're insulting both.
A woman isn't one property. A man isn't a woman manager. A woman is as a human as a man.
And I put all that just on ONE pesky set of sentence in a book full of crazy things like this.
Now you got me started. Come with me with your books, in return I shall teach you real life; ya biggots.

>:(

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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@GullRaDriel

you need to have your self a bong hit.
Every thing is logical there is no need for emotions.
A man is to a woman what a women is to a man.
I don't believe in relation ships that don't work anymore. the relation never worked in the beginning.

if you don't come to terms to make something work for the rest of your life's; don't start it.

Society has been poisoned and confused by the vile celebrity marriage.
that in its self distorted what marriage truly is.

marriage is not a game or some faze you trough in life.

marriage is a bond made between a man and a woman to endure life trial and tribulations while growing closer to the Lord God and producing children to Grow in his name.

you are only getting mad because you lack upstanding of what you call "real life" you know not the forces that influence you.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
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That's it. I'm out. This has gone way past "intelligent debate" and there's no reason to keep wasting my time checking the thread. :P

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Neil Roy said:

Just look at the world around you and how it is going to crap since we have implemented all theses rights, and legalized sin.

The world around me has certainly not "gone to crap". I'm very comfortable and people mostly die from accidents or disease where I live here in Canada. I know it's not so crappy there where you are either >:(
This "land of sin" we live in is one of the greatest spots on this rock to be living in right now. We have our problems, as do all places, but to attribute that to not following the bible is ludicrous and just silly. Of course, I understand that the world isn't like this everywhere and that other people have a very hard time. Those daesh bastards like to stone people because it is written in their special god book. They've been known to throw gay people from buildings, too. I would never hope a nation goes back to the dark ages like the people of that region have been pushed into, and that our forefathers had to bear through when the lords of their lands decided to follow the bible as if it were a book of law. Those were not better times than now at all.

Quote:

Is it really so much a stretch to think that maybe the bible has been right all along and that maybe what we are doing in our society today has been harmful to ourselves?

Yes. Yes it is. Very much so.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

piccolo said:

Society has been poisoned and confused by the vile celebrity marriage.
that in its self distorted what marriage truly is.

marriage is not a game or some faze you trough in life.

marriage is a bond made between a man and a woman to endure life trial and tribulations while growing closer to the Lord God and producing children to Grow in his name.

you are only getting mad because you lack upstanding of what you call "real life" you know not the forces that influence you.

I don't want to post in here, but I just had to applaud your response. On this we 100% agree. My wife and I just celebrated our 31st anniversary on the 8th, and we still say "I love you" every day, usually several times a day. I told her that just before she went to bed tonight, and I meant it. We understand marriage, she understands her role. Too many people focus on what they see as negative, while ignoring all the positive and how marriages truly are wonderful when they are done right, according to God's word. But people do things their own way, and then when it goes wrong, blame the bible as being wrong for forbidding divorce (except for fornication where it is allowed), rather than blaming themselves for not living right in the first place, which is what leads to divorce.

I am head of the house here. But as head, I obey my bible which tells me to love my wife, to not be harsh to her, to provide for her and if need be, give my life to protect her, which I would in a heartbeat. Just ask our family doctor how much I love my wife, he made her cry once and I threw him across the room. :) And I would do it again.

Anyhow, I just loved your response. As for the rest, there is some good from all this bickering and hatred... I see atheists reading their bibles. ;D ;D

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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piccolo said:

I don't believe in relation ships that don't work anymore. the relation never worked in the beginning.

That prove you didn't have that much relationships.

piccolo said:

if you don't come to terms to make something work for the rest of your life's; don't start it.

I know one who will end lonesome with his right hand has a wife. Pro tip: a reversed left hand is like a stranger hand.

piccolo said:

you are only getting mad because you lack upstanding of what you call "real life" you know not the forces that influence you.

I would really love to compare my lack of understanding and yours. And there are no force influencing me. I'm not a believer.

piccolo said:

marriage is a bond made between a man and a woman to endure life trial and tribulations while growing closer to the Lord God and producing children to Grow in his name.

Marriage isn't a christian thing from the start. It's a pagan tradition that have been adapted. Where do you think the ring and sail thing are coming from ?
In other country it was common for some people to marry only for a defined time period. (i.e the Celtes who renewed their wish each year). The church made it a sacerdoce.

Neil:
Because your couple life is a charm doesn't mean that it is the case with everyone.
Now I'm asking myself if you really love your woman, or if you only do love her and defend her because the book told so.
In the book it's also stated that you have the right to hurt your wife if she does not follow your orders.
Are you hurting her with no remorse in that case ? (Ephesians 5 22-24)

Is she talking in assembly ? she shouldn't (Corinthians 14 34)

Is she asking things to someone else than you ? she should't (Corinthians 14 35)

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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@GullRaDriel

You are very right and I honor my relationship.
That's the confusion I am talking about its like your saying having many relationship implies quality.

But you are being influenced.

The system influences you
Your magic picture box of "truths" influences you
The Bible tells you to follow Caesar's laws unless the laws go against the Bible until the day the lord comes back and Caesar's time is up.
There are many things that influences you; you just have not taken note.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

Be good with your wife, I hope she's good with you.

I didn't clearly stated that quantity bring quality. But staying in a relationship that have no future is dumb, whatever the reason. That was my point ;-)

The system influences us all, I give you that.

Time sure are changing, I somewhat agree with you on the last block of your answer.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Neil Roy said:

As for the rest, there is some good from all this bickering and hatred... I see atheists reading their bibles. ;D ;D

video

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Are you hurting her with no remorse in that case ? (Ephesians 5 22-24 [biblia.com])

You forgot a few verses in that, I wonder why you stopped at verse 24? Lets find out, shall we?

Ephesians 5:25 (NIV)
“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her”

Ephesians 5:28 (NIV)
“In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.”

Ephesians 5:33 (NIV)
“However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”

Colossians 3:18-21 (NIV)
Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.
Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

Now show me where in all these scriptures that it gives the husband the permission to hurt her without remorse?!

Quote:

Is she talking in assembly ? she shouldn't (Corinthians 14 34 [biblehub.com])

My wife never did. But then, I no longer attend churches because none of them seem to obey this law as well as others. But I 100% agree with it, why wouldn't I? I don't question the laws of the Almighty. Certain members in here attend churches that have female ministers, maybe you should ask them how is it they can have that when this verse clearly states they should not instead of asking me, I agree with this verse, apparently they don't read the bible they claim to believe in.

Quote:

Is she asking things to someone else than you ? she should't (Corinthians 14 35 [biblehub.com])

That doesn't say she can't ask someone else outside of the church, it says she is not to speak in the church, not even to ask a question but to wait until afterwards, outside of the church. But anyhow, no, she does not. Because we don't attend churches, so not a problem, but yeah, she understand to obey, so if she is told by the bible not to talk in church, I guarantee you my wife would not. She is not a rebellious, feminist wife, she's loving and obedient. And she gets that love right back. So you're barking up the wrong tree pal. I actually obey my bible. You probably assumed I was a Sunday keeping "christian" who doesn't obey it. You are wrong, I study my bible in depth and know it far better than you do, guaranteed!!!

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

@bamccaig

have a hit of a nice sativa then watch that video again.
only then will you see his short comings.

I can see it with out the sativa. When I watch the video I feel very sorry for him a sense of pity even. It is unfortunate that he grow up around a very weak and unknowledgeable religious leader.
let me leave you with this to ponder..

Is it possible for someone to read a computer programing textbook cover to cover and not understand it?

my answer is yes.. what is yours?
When someone who has failed to understand the computer programing textbook after reading it cover to cover finds another like them self they feel relief and comfort.

If this still dose not help you understand that man predicament take a read of the book. -> "Life of Pi"

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Neil Roy said:

Now show me where in all these scriptures that it gives the husband the permission to hurt her without remorse?!

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 states: "As in all the churches of the holy one, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate even as the law says. If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church."

That's what hurt women! And all the misogyny that relates to what Paul wrote. I believe it's possible to raise a boy to a misogynist. Just let him live in a society, which relies heavily on the 2000 year old view on women. I see a lot of it in the American lifestyle, where the husband is supposed to support his wife economically.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

@Johan Halmén

Ill help you understand.

What you are forgetting is that is the past when something was said in public it is said from a household point of view not an individual point of view.

This means the house would have to take responsibility for what is said. It is meant for house hold to have a meeting in private come to a concession and that statement or view point is delivered by the head of the housed(or elder).

In the end if any backlash were to come from the statement or point of view expressed. The head of the household would sacrifice himself.

The household could be come headless (no-pon-intended) but the children will still have mother.

things should not be uttered carelessly in public as to create conflict or war.

As I said in this case the Bible is protecting the family from complete break that can accrue when humans come down on humans. At the same time creating unity where the voice of the family is unified as one and holds weight.

Its not like today where differences like political parties football teams, social view points break up families leaving children confused orphaned or even dead.

EDIT

Here is an example case you could relate to. You are walking with your wife in public. your wife see a man and his family. your wife says to the man those kids do not look like you are you sure you are the father?

The man wants to retaliate physically you as the house head has no choice but to step-up and try and resolve the situation.

on a good day in todays world it much just end with you saying
"omg honey you cant say that like that." I am sorry Sir she did not mean to say it like that. please accept my humble apology.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

piccolo said:

note that each of those demands are to protect human Christians and keep them strong in body and mind

That's your interpretation. So it's just some sort of spiritual means? By the way, who are the non-human Christians?

Neil, you have raised your voice loudly to spew out some random Bible quotes that are largely irrelevant to the teachings of Jesus anyway.
However, when you're being asked about something more substantial, you remain silent.
I assume you, too, notice this discrepancy?

By the way, the Bible is quite harsh about bigots. Some of my favorite quotes (it's been a while, there are probably others/better ones I don't remember / can't find right now).

Amos 5:21-24 said:

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them : neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream

Hosea 6:6 said:

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Jesaja 1:11-17 said:


11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them .
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Mark,12:29-33 said:

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Now, you guys who take everything literally will probably say it has been a while that you made your last "burnt offering"... :-/

Edit:
About the women: They have better education today and therefore more to contribute. Why shouldn't they if they want to? Because old Paulus said so?

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

@Polybios
my interpretation of that is the Lord God requires given from the "heart" out of sincerity. It shows a man giving offerings to show-off to his pairs trying to show that he loves God more then someone else.

you can related this to the celebrity garbage "marriages".

They buy their spouse expensive rings and gifs for show.
these type of gifs show of wealth mean nothing to the Lord God and he will shun you if you think they do.

Edit
I for got to explain the teaching or lesson in it.
We Gods Creations in his image are to strive to be like God. its hard because we are weak humans but if some of give us offerings in the same manner we should shun then because you can not by love from someone and it will only lead to divorce. divorce/fakefriends is what the lord wants to protect you from.

EDIT 2

Ok you are probably think "wait a min how can giving somebody some be a bad thing?" however it can a very bad thing. one of the key things the Bible teaches is moderation.
you have people that become addicted to giving. Example someone passes a homeless man on the street each and they give him enough money to get some food. It make them feel good and sometimes they even get high from it.
They keep doing it until it build a sense of superiority to the homeless man and the real reason for giving is loss in the petty high.

The Bible teaches that the right thing to do is to help the man on his feet so he can feed himself and not be sub servant to you.

so you are asking "how can I tell when an offerings is true to the heart and not a show of wealth or superiority."
Most of the time the offerings is something you need and not something you want.

example 2 friends are jobless, one of the friends manages to land a job. A true offering would be if the friend uses some of his paycheck to help get supplies to help the jobless friend get a job as well.

So now your thinking how am i supposes to know what God is in needs of as a offering. if you read your Bible you should already know God is at war and he needs his children to be on his side when judgment day comes.

example. I should be working on my allegro 5 bus simulator application that is going to make me money however I am offering some of my time to the Lord to try and satisfy some questions from is unfaithful children in hopes they will see the light and one day sit a his side again.

this is a true offerings however now that i have told you my offerings has become invalid as an offering between and God and more like the offerings of the fatty beast Polybios Quoted.

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Polybios said:

Now, you guys who take everything literally will probably say it has been a while that you made your last "burnt offering

I take the bible literally, because that it how it is meant to be taken.

As for burnt offerings, I assume you mean sacrifices. They are no longer necessary. Sacrifices were always a shadow of what Christ would eventually do for us, they showed the future. Once Christ appeared and sacrificed Himself for us, the shadow is no longer needed. Christ IS my sacrifice, that is why He is referred to the "lamb of God" and in fact, God himself states that he does not particularly like sacrifices, but prefers mercy and obedience. Notice the following verses...

Hosea 6:6 (NIV)
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Psalm 51:16 (NIV)
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

Psalm 40:6 (NIV)
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire—but my ears you have opened—burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Isaiah 1:11 (NIV)
“The multitude of your sacrifices—what are they to me?” says the Lord. I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.”

There are many more like this, and note that most of these are from the Old Testament as well, so this was nothing new when Jesus arrived.

And the verses you quoted I love those, for they are talking about people who would keep pagan traditions and man made celebrations, flagrantly disobey God, then come to Him with sacrifices to "make it all better". They wouldn't even try in most cases to obey God and not keep these pagan traditions, but just keep them anyhow with the idea they could sacrifice later! THAT is what those verses are talking about. People would use the sacrifices as SIN FREE card. Much like Sunday keepers use God's grace as a SIN FREE card today. People celebrate Christmas and call it christian when it is pagan in origin. People will be celebrating Valentines day soon, and then Easter, all pagan in origin. God prefers people to actually obey Him, or at least TRY. So I totally understand the verses you quoted, I have quoted them for decades now against celebrating Xmas and Easter, which I do not, nor ever have celebrated since I moved out of home at the age of 17.

Also, no, I do not answer every question in here because most of them come from hateful people who only wish to attack God, attack his word, make fun of it and ask a nonstop barrage of questions to me without answering any of mine. Then if I do answer, from my bible (where the hell else am I supposed to answer from?!) they attack me for quoting the bible. So I have mainly focused on conversing with fellow believers and, for the most part, ignore the mockers, I could care less what they think about me or God.

As usual, this is a never ending round of bickering, arguing, attacking and mocking. Utterly pointless. Just a whole lot of hate, which I despise.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I think I preferred grammarless piccolo. :'( He still doesn't make sense, but at least before it was funny. :'(

Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
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Neil Roy said:

Also, no, I do not answer every question in here because most of them come from hateful people who only wish to attack God, attack his word, make fun of it and ask a nonstop barrage of questions to me without answering any of mine. Then if I do answer, from my bible (where the hell else am I supposed to answer from?!) they attack me for quoting the bible. So I have mainly focused on conversing with fellow believers and, for the most part, ignore the mockers, I could care less what they think about me or God.

I think it's great you believe in God (I see no denial or inconsistencies with that), but the literal interpretation of the Bible is presently not sitting well with me at all. God wrote "The Bible is lying." thousands of times across the universe. Why do you ignore His direct work? Or, conversely, why did He make everything (plate tectonics, radio carbon dating, red shift, fossil records, magnetic striations, viable mutation rates, etc.) seem to indicate that many words in the Bible were direct lies? Why did He create the universe to look exactly like it was far, far older than claimed in the Bible? A test of faith? Is this like He seems to have created Adam to look like a young adult when he wasn't yet a day old? Seriously, what is your literal interpretation of the Bible perspective on this?

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GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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@Neil you effectively seem to be a 'real' Christian ;-)

On the topic, as stated by myself and seconded by Johan, part of the way you have to act as a Christian is misogyne, or not the modern way of living together if you prefer.

I can't picture myself forbidding something to my wife, even more if she have some questions. I don't see why because I'm a man I would be allowed to do more things than a woman.

I understand that you said 'forbidden in the church, but she can ask outside', but even that is problematic for me at least.

It's just that I prefer to be on an right,equal foot with my wife and women globally.

And yes, if you're both happy with it don't change anything ! You don't have to listen and obey an atheist god, there isn't one :D

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Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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(I'll try and keep this as brief as I can without sacrificing the meaning as to not wander into too-long-didn't-read territory.)

Firstly, I'm an atheist. Unless proven otherwise, I take the stance there is no god (or gods) and trying to find proof for the existence of such or against the existence of such beings isn't worthwhile (or perhaps even possible). However, I do explicitly believe there is no Christian god, just as I believe the Greek pantheon does not exist. It's an issue of the Christian god being impossible within the observable world of ours due to claims made by the Bible...

The first, and most important, issue is the very real problem of evil (and therefore sin). The Christian god is supposed to be all powerful, all knowing, and perfectly good--yet evil exists. The Christian god has the means to remove evil and even prevent it from ever occurring, yet he does not. Why?

The Christian god could still allow the concepts of temptation and evil to exist, but have made the world (being he is all powerful) in such a way that while these options present themselves, we as humans never give in to the temptation and therefore always make the good (according to Christianity) choice since the god is all knowing. Alternatively, evil options would never occur due to a similar perfect starting condition, and while choices will be made, the possibility of making a sinful choice never occurs due to an initial starting condition (all powerful, again) that results in an evil-free world with free will (all knowing, after all). This is possible and would allow the Christian god to exist within the framework of a world otherwise like our own, but evidently he has not done so since there is evil and suffering. Why?

(Not to mention "natural evil" exists, such as disease and natural disasters. These are definitely were out of the control of man even hundreds of years ago, and even today are largely uncontrollable/unpreventable [though I suppose while we can cause earthquakes and engineer diseases and negatively affect the climate, we definitely can't stop the tectonic movement that would cause earthquakes regardless or prevent the evolution of bacteria that would happen regardless, etc]).

And yes, there is the abstract idea of choice in these ideal worlds. In the world where sin is an option but we never choose to sin does not lessen the impact of the good/non-sinful choice. It's unnecessarily arbitrary and incorrect to reason or claim that people must make sinful choices for the Christian god to exist. And the other world where a sinful option never presents itself does not invalidate the Christian god either, just as Morgan Freeman not being the Democrat candidate in the 2008 presidential elections did not invalidate the choices of Americans to elect a president in 2008...

So since there is evil in this world, that means the Christian god (to exist) must be some combination of all powerful, all knowing, and perfectly good, but not all three... which contradicts what the Christian god is according to the Christian belief system. Unless there's an interpretation that the Christian god has the ability to be evil and has done so? Or the Christian god is not all knowing or all powerful? And the Christian god can't be all powerful but not all knowing (since if he were all powerful he could therefore will himself to be all knowing). Those would not remotely common beliefs, however, and therefore irrelevant to the majority...

The other issues include the effectiveness of prayer and such, but the post is too long so I'll leave that for now.

(And arguments like "look in your heart" or "you'll see/feel the truth when you open your [mind/heart/soul]" and whatever else are incredibly terrible. I most definitely have more proof of eldritch beings manipulating my life than you have of the Christian influencing your life, but at least I'm aware that it's much more likely my proof is complete coincidence and such thought processes are as a result of a sickness. Those making similar arguments for the Christian god generally have no excuse.)



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