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Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004
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Money I need on a one-year time horizon I never keep in stocks. Longer-term savings I'm not that worried about, just gotta wait it out. Good time to invest a bit over time now when the buying is cheap.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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NiteHackr said:

It still exists. Immigrants are still welcome to enter the nation legally. This has always been the case, and under the last three presidents they have all talked about the need to crack down on ILLEGAL immigrants. And there are LEGAL immigrants that entered LEGALLY that support Trump on this, just as they probably supported Obama when Obama spoke out against Illegals, or Bush, or Bill Clinton. They are all on record speaking out against illegals. NONE of them, including Trump has a problem with LEGAL immigrants and he has said so. Heck, Trump's wife is a legal immigrant.

Don't give me that legalese bullshit. Trump is against immigrants period. You do know they're being kept in confinement areas, right? You know, cages?

“The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans.”

In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”

All those damn law abiding illegal immigrants need to get out of our country, right NiteHackr? Oh wait, you're fucking Canadian and you have no say in our business whatsoever.

NiteHackr said:

Quit swallowing the leftist propaganda and do some research on it.

Take your own medicine, Neil Boi.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

You do know they're being kept in confinement areas, right? You know, cages?

Yup, cages built by Obama to house criminals who illegally enter the country. Because that's what you do with criminal, you put them in cages.

The LEGAL immigrants have no such problems. They enter and are welcome, and it is not "bullshit", like it or not, these are the facts. And as I already stated, every president in my living memory has been against illegal criminals and I can post the videos of them all saying that if you wish. Do you deny this as well?

And as I already said, the first lady is herself an immigrant, that fact alone proves you wrong and shows that Trump literally loves immigrants! He married one! And many more support him (the legal ones who respect the laws of the nation they wish to enter).

As for Canada, we have similar problems with them coming in here. But in any event, I have every right to voice my opinion Edgar.

Bill Clinton from 1995 speaking out against illegal immigrants...

video

Obama speaks out against illegal immigrants.

video

Immgrant husband and wife who support Trump's wall...

video

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Edgar, you're ethically and scientifically wrong on abortion. It doesn't matter how many rights you create out of thin air. A human fetus is in fact another human being, your refusal to admit basic objective truths on the matter doesn't change that.

I don't mind if people follow the legal process to come to the US. People who aren't following the legal process are causing lots of problems. Most of the people who illegally cross the southern border and claim asylum are in fact not valid asylees and are instead looking for work. Free handouts are one of the big reasons that the USA can't afford to just let everybody in the world who wants to come. Resources are not infinite. And as NiteHackr pointed out, if you ever use the leftist propaganda about illegals in cages as an attack on Trump without openly blaming Obama as well then you are a damned hypocrite and should be ignored as the hack you are.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

On a different topic. If you're nervous about the whole virus scare, or anything else in life. Keep the following scripture in mind (also note the verse numbers). I know I have been helped in some fantastic ways I won't go into here as I have already (and been mocked for it), but I still wish to post something as I don't believe in hiding my faith.

{"name":"612371","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/1\/810e747c43c816629dc9f9fd1fdf3dce.jpg","w":930,"h":511,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/1\/810e747c43c816629dc9f9fd1fdf3dce"}612371

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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I guess I'm safe then. I don't have a tent.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

LennyLen said:

I guess I'm safe then. I don't have a tent.

The idea being wherever you live of course. I know I have been. I used to be type 2 diabetic. I haven't taken meds for it for five years now. My doctor didn't like it, but I went on faith, prayer etc.

Sadly, my older brother trusted in doctors and their pills, he had type 2, went to type 1 and died three years ago.

I'll trust God. He has already helped me with this and much much more I could explain and be mocked for.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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I have a story like that too. Just over a month ago I had (unbeknownst to me) a tumour the size of a grapefruit that perforated my small bowel and bled so much I lost a third of my bodies blood. A month later, and I was back at work as if nothing had ever happened. In my book, blood transfusions and a good surgeon beats prayer.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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There is no difference between "legal" and "illegal" immigrants when that distinction is completely arbitrary.

NiteHackr, next time you come to the US, I hope they put you in a dirty, crowded cage with nothing to sleep on, no hygiene and poor food. Would serve you right.

Trump is not a "champion of immigrants", he is a HYPOCRITE.

raynebc, are you a woman? Have you ever been pregnant? What gives you the right to decide what to do with other people's bodies?

Faith is one thing, but faith without works is DEAD. Just believing God will save you from everything is blind ignorance, and is not what he would want you to do. He would want you to take action. He would want you to listen to science. But you know, you do you.

LennyLen, I'm glad you're okay Buddy. ;)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Edgar, what right do you have to say women should be allowed to murder their offspring? Are you a human? Do you have morals?

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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A fetus is not a human being. Or else we'd say baby instead of fetus. It's different, and you can bullshit all you want to, but nobody has to agree with your idea of what qualifies as a human.

We kill actual humans on a daily basis. Your government and country is particularly busy with it. So get off of your fucking high horse, and stop whining. It's none of your business what happens in a woman's uterus unless your DNA happens to be in there. Mind your own fucking business.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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raynebc, your mother brought you kicking and screaming into this world, and its her right to take you out of it.

If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out.

You should be lucky you're not a pregnant mother faced with a decision that will affect the rest of her life.

And if you're gonna argue that fertilized embryos are human beings too, then you can stuff it.

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
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It's about bodily autonomy. Same reason you mark yourself as an organ donor. Even as a corpse, you have the right to deny someone else life if it means violating your body. Living women should have at least as many rights as corpses, I'd think.

jmasterx
Member #11,410
October 2009

and its her right to take you out of it.

I think if she killed him now she would be tried for first degree premeditated murder.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Corpses do not have any rights. There are laws to restrict what we can do to corpses, not to protect the corpses, but to protect the state of mind of their loved ones (or to protect society from who you might become if left unchecked).

Personally, I would be in favour of turning all of our dead into organ donors and donations to science. It's just going to rot in the ground anyway, or vaporize and pollute our air. It might as well do some good instead.

A fetus has no autonomy whatsoever. Take the mother away and the fetus cannot exist. Take the fetus away and the mother can remain perfectly fine (arguably, her physical condition will improve in fact). It's pretty fucking obvious which one of them deserves to override the other one.

I think you need to seriously reconsider your logic. It's faulty.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

bam failed biology. And leftists like you commonly argue that not even the father has a say whether his offspring lives or dies while he or she is in utero. To people like you, the mother can abort at any time for any reason on a whim. Autonomy is not a valid justification, it's something pro abortion people comfort themselves with because they don't have a stronger argument. Even after birth, a human baby depends on continuous care for years before it can survive "independently." Humanity would have died off long ago if we had to depend on logic like yours.

Edgar, you have no morals. Nobody has any right to kill me. That you would even joke so shows how compromised you are. And even though you are scientifically challenged, fertilized embryos are techically unique human beings, but I don't personally draw the line until implantation (the beginning of pregnancy) because that allows for more attempts to use contraception.

I'm marked as an organ donor, but even if I hadn't chosen to do so, that doesn't directly terminate another's life. False equivalence.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Ideally the father is married to the mother and if they decide to abort it will be a mutual decision. A wife aborting a baby without the father's approval is probably a matter for divorce court.

That said, should a father be able to force a woman to be pregnant that does not wish to be pregnant? No, not at all. That's completely irrational. Why would you want to? You want the mother of your child to be unfit or unprepared or just not wanting the child? Children require two parents to be happy and healthy (that's a generalization so don't waste anybody's time with exceptions). Single-parent families are much more likely to produce criminals and people suffering from other social issues (and typically taking it out on society).

If your wife (or partner, or lay) says they don't want to follow through with a baby that you want then you should be accepting that you've made a mistake and moving on. You can always have a baby with another woman. There are plenty of fish in the sea. No harm done. You have absolutely no grounds to force those 9+ months on her. Pregnancy is hard work, mentally draining, extremely unpleasant, and potentially deadly. It can only produce magic for people that want it. For anyone else it fucking ruins their life. And more, I think it's reasonable to conclude that a person's DNA is also something that they should have a say in. With the knowledge to end a pregnancy with few or no side effects we absolutely must make the option available to people, without shame or stigma.

Append:

I don't know how to understand your position without assuming insecurity with finding a mate, and wanting for success to mean just one night of luck. ::) Which is pretty pathetic. But also pretty irrational... Women generally want babies. It's men that don't. And there is no shortage of wild women looking in all the wrong places for mates. Babies are pretty much all win for women (most of the time). It gets them out of the workforce, taken care of, and brings meaning to their lives. Not ideal for a woman that is bound to be a millionaire CEO or tradesperson, but for the average woman bound to be a cashier at Target or an office worker it's great. Babies are theoretically great for men too, but only if they come at a time when they're ready for them.

All that I know is we got a puppy almost 3 months ago, and it's been hell (but also kind of nice). I can no longer sleep. I wake up around 6 AM every day and cannot sleep longer. I try to be in bed by 9:30 at the latest. It is stressing my psychology. I still enjoy it. Dogs are great. And I love him. But he's also a lot of work and frustrating.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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As a diversion, I'm making a minigame called Chicken Politickin' and I made some terrible decisions...

{"name":"612375","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/0\/a0430ca3a1dd4d7f823a09a7cbf9a452.png","w":1282,"h":752,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/0\/a0430ca3a1dd4d7f823a09a7cbf9a452"}612375

Bow to your chicken overlords.

The minigame involves tackling chickens to knock them out. The more chickens you knock out, the more points you get. Get the most points before time runs out! Simple and stupid.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Generally speaking, the only way to force a woman to become pregnant is rape. Pro-abortion people keep forgetting that adoption is something that exists. Killing a human does harm. It deserves to be criticized. Justifying the killing of other humans for convenience deserves to be criticized. I know this brings divisiveness back in the thread, but some atrocities should not be ignored.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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raynebc said:

Killing a human does harm. It deserves to be criticized. Justifying the killing of other humans for convenience deserves to be criticized.

I think you'll find that most pro-abortion people agree with you there. Where the disagreement lies is in what the definition of a human is.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002

raynebc said:

I know this brings divisiveness back in the thread, but some atrocities should not be ignored.

Normally I would agree, but in here? It's utterly pointless and a waste of time to even try. Trust me, I have tried for a very long time. You'll only frustrate yourself while you go around and around and around. Logic doesn't work with these people. They will always find a way to justify their evil. And they will someday pay for it. Whether they believe it or not.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

raynebc said:

Generally speaking, the only way to force a woman to become pregnant is rape.

Nobody said anything about forcing a woman to become pregnant. Shit happens. Condoms break or semen slips by. Birth control doesn't always work either. The only way to guarantee no baby is no sex. That might work well for losers, but for the rest of us we want to have recreational sex with no intention of reproducing!

raynebc said:

Pro-abortion people keep forgetting that adoption is something that exists.

Not at all. It's acknowledged, but it's not an ideal scenario for many couples. The woman still has to go through the hard work of pregnancy, and there are still risks for her health associated with the pregnancy. That's a pretty major burden to put on yourself for no return. It's an option, but it's not the only one or even the best one for many couples.

raynebc said:

Killing a human does harm. It deserves to be criticized. Justifying the killing of other humans for convenience deserves to be criticized. I know this brings divisiveness back in the thread, but some atrocities should not be ignored.

Terminating a pregnancy does very little harm. Almost negligible. The worst harm that it can do is emotional trauma for the parents, but it's up to the individual parents whether or not it's right for them. They have a choice. Nobody is forcing them to abort. If they decide that abortion is right for them then they can choose to live with the consequences. Just as parents that choose to go through with the birth have to live with the consequences (which are often horrible).

Birth isn't without its own risks. It's common for women to experience depression or other mental health disorders after birth. And there are physical risks as well.

The religious nuts like to pretend that the fetus is somehow a "magical" entity. Some sort of life force allocated directly by God. Something sacred. It's none of those things. It's just a collection of organic cells. There's no special meaning there. It's just another living organism. We kill those all the time. It doesn't take magic to make one. Literally any stupid fuck on the planet can make one, and the act doesn't have to be "wholesome" in any way (usually it's not). In the vast majority of pregnancies two people were fucking for fun, and oops it took. Many of these people are unfit to be parents. Many of them are unstable. Many of them don't know their partners' last name, let alone whether they're compatible with each other long term or not.

We put value on human life because humans are intelligent beings. They are conscious of their existence, and experience pain, trauma, and loss. They form bonds with other humans, and when a human that you have formed a bond with passes a way it impacts everybody whose lives they have touched.

My fetus doesn't automatically get to have that status just because you say so. Fuck you. Whether or not that fetus has any value to me is MY decision, not yours. If it's nothing but a bag of shit to me then I can choose to throw it away. End of story. Nobody hurt. Nothing lost. Just one of several possible outcomes. The universe couldn't care less. It's no more sacred than killing cattle or a cat or a mouse or a mosquito. It has the potential to turn into a human being, but it isn't one yet. And if it's prevented from becoming one then it won't ever know the difference.

There are some 8 billion known human beings currently in existence. It is estimated that approximately 100 billion more have lived and died. Those 100 billion people no longer exist. They can't feel anything. They can't be in pain. They can't be lonely. They don't feel regrets. They cease to exist. Similarly, within each living human there is the potential to create anywhere from hundreds of new humans to millions. Those billions more people that are never formed from those gametes do not feel anything. They never existed.

A fetus is not conscious of its existence. I don't remember being conscious of my existence until I was at least 2 or 3 years old. Prior to that if you had painlessly terminated my life it wouldn't have mattered any to me. And it only would have mattered to family and friends because they were given 2 or 3 years to get to know me and become invested in me. If you had instead terminated me before anybody other than my parents even knew that I was starting to form then literally nobody would miss me (assuming my parents didn't want me).

Your argument basically boils down to, "I believe fetuses are special and therefore you must do as I say with yours!"

To which I say, eat a bag of dicks!

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