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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

I downgraded both my computers from Windows 10 back to Windows 7 this week. One of them now has a non-functioning Visual Studio 2015, and every installation/repair/removal attempt using any version of the installer I have fails in a different, exciting way. I'm now doing a same-version in-place 'upgrade' in an attempt to repair the whole operating system. So much fun, but it'll be worth it for a prolonged Aero experience. ;D :o

SRSLY. Windows 10 actually has quite a few nice improvements to it and whatnot, but having those pretty glassy windows turned out to matter more to me. I mainly just feel sorry for Microsoft - how could they get it so, so wrong? :(

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

OnlineCop
Member #7,919
October 2006
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Bruce: Be sure to install something like GWX Control Panel which will stop those Windows 7 "updates" which nag/force you to upgrade (back) to Windows 10.

I made a VR game!

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

Actually, that's gone now. MS even removed it from Windows Update.

Never10 is a better program anyway to stop it.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Finally got Visual Studio working again. Read some of my story here ;)

What I didn't describe there is how I removed and tried to reinstall the .NET Framework, found that the Dell touchpad settings were wrong and the application for editing them now crashed, did a fresh install of Windows 7, copied my old user directory back in, found out that the Dell touchpad settings wouldn't run without the .NET Framework, found that .NET Framework 4 froze installing just like on the old install, and - wahoo! - fudged around with directories from the Windows 7 installation DVD maintenance command prompt to get my old Windows install back, installed .NET Framework 4.6.2 or some such, and graaaaaadually fixed Visual Studio as described in the link.

Yeaaaah Windows 7 <3

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

how could they get it so, so wrong?

Experience?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

I don't have many gripes about Windows 10. Overall I like it. It does what it's supposed to, and for the most part it stays out of my way. One thing I hate is the automatic restarts. They let you "schedule" them for a little while, but then they give you a cutoff and force you to restart your computer. All due to Windows Update. I don't use the Windows app store, and all the junk they put on the start menu just gets in the way. So I use desktop shortcuts instead of the start menu. My desktop still isn't so cluttered I can't get anything done, and the desktop shortcut works for most purposes, even if it loads a little bit slowly. I'm not terribly fond of the way windows are grouped on the taskbar, but it is better than having one taskbar button for every single window there is open. That gets a little out of hand. For the most part it just does what I want. Have only had a small handful of bluescreens, and I think that was due to buggy Microsoft Word in Office 2015 doing something it shouldn't have.

Still can't stand MSVS. I love my CodeBlocks, and I'm sticking with it.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

In fairness, MSVS for C++ is a mess. For C# it's better, and that's what I mostly use it for.

The taskbar button grouping system is the same in Windows 7 and 8 as in 10 - did you come from one of those, or from something else? Do you have an OS in mind that has a better scheme?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

As per the taskbar app grouping, I don't mind. I came from Vista, where there was one button for every window, so it's an improvement for me. But what I don't like about it is the preview pane. Sometimes it shows tabs, sometimes it shows windows. I'd rather it just showed the windows that are open. But it treats tabs like they are windows. Perhaps that is application specific behaviour though. I noticed that in Windows 10, SeaMonkey "forgets" screen contents and I have to double restore the window before it shows everything again. Same thing with FireFox. It may be a D3D device lost issue, I don't know.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

The tabs thing does seem to be a decision the application makes. I think I saw it in some other browser (Firefox?) a long time ago. I didn't like it either :)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

If Firefox does it, I had disabled it already and forgotten about it. I know at some point it was an option, and I can't remember if it's opt-in or opt-out.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

Windows 10 is kind of annoying because of the "apps" being separate from usual applications and getting that annoying window theme and behaviour. I don't use them on purpose and replace them with non-windows-app apps when needed, but things like opening the calculator and having it ask you for a rating just feels dumb. The theme in general is a step backwards in my opinion.

I find the new start menu less intuitive and clunkier to use, taking more clicks and occupying more screen real estate. I usually just hit the windows key and start typing what I want though, and that still works.

At work I'm still on Windows 7, but we're switching soon. The most annoying thing is that I love cubic explorer, but it doesn't work on Windows 10.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

The start menu is definitely a clusterfuck, but fortunately you don't need it very often (well, I certainly don't working from the command line). I pin most applications to the taskbar. The rarely used ones can be found with search.

You still need hacks to change taskbar entries into icons with no text and without grouping instances. You needed a registry hack in Windows 7, but now you actually need a black magic executable to do it. In any case, I find that configuration preferable because it's less hover time to get where you're going and it takes up less space.

I don't know if people are forgetting or just don't care, but the absolute worst part about Windows 10 is that it spies on you and calls home regularly, the details of which are proprietary and secret... I use it at work where I generally care less that it spies on me. I do most of my private stuff in a Linux VM, though I imagine just capturing keystrokes and possibly mouse coordinates would be enough to reverse engineer plenty of data and behavior.

At home I don't even run Windows at the moment. I'm reluctantly running Ubuntu MATE for Valve's Ubuntu Steam support and MATE's superior desktop experience. I don't really have many complaints, aside from the fact that it might spy too by default (or if not Ubuntu then perhaps the proprietary drivers and codecs and software used to make things work so easily). Hopefully the Ubuntu MATE folks remove the call-home stuff (I think it was mainly part of Unity). It sounds like other official flavors don't include it so I bet unofficial flavors don't either. From the sounds of it, they've since resolved the privacy concerns, but I'm not sure I trust them unless the code is free (and I'm not sure that it is). I don't know that they could be as bad as Microsoft or Apple, but I'm still begrudged to settle for less than libre.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

The privacy issue with Windows 10 saddens me. I've heard you can get around it with a good firewall setup.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

bamccaig said:

You still need hacks to change taskbar entries into icons with no text and without grouping instances. You needed a registry hack in Windows 7, but now you actually need a black magic executable to do it.

Do you really mean taskbar entries here? As I understand it, they default to icons without text in both OSes, and if you don't like the grouping, then, in Windows 7 at least, you can right-click the taskbar -> Properties -> Taskbar buttons: Never combine.

[EDIT] Oh, I see - then it shows labels, which you don't want.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

{"name":"610520","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/7\/c7d6d4ec2d3b83d77bdd50f918333a86.png","w":867,"h":29,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/7\/c7d6d4ec2d3b83d77bdd50f918333a86"}610520

Correct. As an aside, I also encourage the use of "use small taskbar buttons" which will turn them into much smaller icons so you can fit many more on the screen. This is only practical if the default size runs onto a separate page with your screen and default workflow. Normally mine is fine with my monitor at work, but if I have my work laptop on the go then they do flow off the screen of the laptop display in the default size. Shrinking the icons helps them all remain visible (since I pin all regularly used applications, they take up space regardless of whether they're running or not).

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

I care about Windows 10 as much as my new baby daughter does. ::)

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

She probably came with Windows 10 preinstalled ;)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Niunio
Member #1,975
March 2002
avatar

Windows 7 is the new Windows XP... ::)

-----------------
Current projects: Allegro.pas | MinGRo

Rodolfo Lam
Member #16,045
August 2015

So in some years from now (and still on this thread) we will be talking about how Microsoft will just end support for Windows 7 if it is still a very good OS

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

I would love to go 15 years back in time and show the following to Microsoft:

{"name":"610532","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/f\/3fd0398c8c461fd22d293da2371a5d19.jpg","w":489,"h":325,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/f\/3fd0398c8c461fd22d293da2371a5d19"}610532

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Good catch, Mark!

My latest news is two-fold. "Yesterday" (40 minutes ago) was my birthday, you bastards. Alas, work is crazy right now. I've worked 3 12-hour days in a row. I'm averaging 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night. I'm salary so I won't even get overtime pay. Blargh.

A week ago I ordered a Steam Controller online while drunk. I saved like CAD$5 on it so shrug. I also burned CAD$40 on virtual items in CS:GO. That I somewhat regret. I digress.

The controller wasn't expected to be delivered until next week, but alas they tried to deliver yesterday and my girlfriend managed to pick it up "today"! Which is my birthday! So that's pretty cool.

First impressions

  • Better aiming than a laptop track-pad.

  • Worse than a keyboard and mouse.

  • Probably slightly better than an analog stick, but harder to compare.

  • I did my initial testing in CS:GO.

* I was playing against bots, not humans.
* At first on "harmless" level. Then "easy" and "medium".
* I won each battle with bots, but the "medium" was noticeably hard. I had to strategize for my "handicap".
* In theory, you could do fairly well with one if you were skilled enough, but it probably won't change the world overnight.
* I'm curious what children will accomplish with it. They have younger, more eager brains.

I don't really regret it. I've wanted one since I heard about it and now I have one. It's not bad technology. I imagine with practice it will become more natural. I can say that I'm not disappointed with my performance using it. In my first 15 minutes I was doing half-good against bots. People with a mouse and keyboard would rape my face, but some of them do anyway after 9 years of experience. I think that a match against other people with a controller, regardless the type, might give the Steam Controller an advantage. Only time will tell..

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

For me, the best use for the Steam Controller is when a game is keyboard only on PC, even though it was a port from console. And for games that natively supports controllers, but you can't reconfigure them.

BTW Bam, you try the gryo on the controller yet? It seems that might bring you even closer to mouse than the trackpad like thing you're mostly used already.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

BTW Bam, you try the gryo on the controller yet? It seems that might bring you even closer to mouse than the trackpad like thing you're mostly used already.

No, I have not. I naively assume it will be useless similar to the "Wiimote" and "PlayStation Wand" or whatever. I can't imagine how you could have 360 X ~90 degrees of movement without the screen turning with you. Perhaps you could get used to using the gyro for precise adjustments though? In my experience with the PlayStation wand things, the computer picks up unintentional movements too and that screws you over.

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