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A Monday thread
Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

RIP, thread.

Yes, it's Monday. Every 5th year or so, some Monday project might actually get airborne. The lovely thread above made me create this:
{"name":"604839","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/5\/a5fb9c0b031a3c721598325d94d7bac4.png","w":1000,"h":191,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/5\/a5fb9c0b031a3c721598325d94d7bac4"}604839
It's the last phrase of a verse or a chorus of a song, the lyrics of which could mention things that we can do, things we find in the Depot etc. As an opening, I wrote something that could be a jazz walz.

If you feel inspired, throw some clever lines here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

In before the flood! :o

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Monday thread, and first day of work, I'm just coming back from my holidays !

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Your music typesetting software is broken. It left-aligns rests. Sibelius? Finale?

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Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Ouch! Didn't notice that. I guess I didn't give time for the software to adjust anything. I only threw it together in 4 minutes. Usually it writes beautiful score.

It's MuseScore, a really great piece of software, worth every cent I spent on it[1]. I think I had version 1.0 on the machine I did that on. Latest version is 1.1. Maybe 1.1 would have drawn it better.

References

  1. Um... yes, it's freeware. And I judge all freeware on a Kelvin scale. There are no negative values.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

That's neither Finale or Sibelius, judging from the treble clef. I want to say some software that uses an old version on lilypond, but I don't think that's it either.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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RIP, thread.

  string str ("All your base are belong to us");
  BOOST_FOREACH( char ch, str )
    cout << str[i];

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
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:( I completely missed that thread and the HP thread before it. I think there's something I should be doing...

604840

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Must ... resist ... urge ... to ... parody ... Rebecca ... Black ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
avatar

After reading both threads, I suddenly don't feel so bad for the times I made an ass-hat out of myself here. I may have personality flaws, but I'm not delusional... yet.

It took me awhile to figure out why Trent was mad at him on the HP thread. Matthew was right, I didn't even read that guy's posts. ;D

EDIT:
corrected post, ass-hat is not in the block list :P

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Hmm, MuseScore, I see... was going to try it out some time, but the atrocious UI scared me away. The clef does look suspiciously like the one in early lilypond version, with the odd slant to the left.

Anyway, I should keep my mouth shut, as my own software currently still has the same flaw, plus it can't do lyrics at all.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

I have a feeling that they copied a lot of UI stuff from Sibelius. And I have a feeling that more and more people will discover MuseScore as a good alternative. I think it's open source. And there's a Javascript plugin-PI. A late add on to the list of available plugins is a clever way to explode and implode staves, which I really need. Now I can write 5 saxophones on one staff, then explode it to 5 staves.

Though it is clumsy. You have to create 4 empty staves, copy everything from staff 1 to the 4 others, select all 5 staves, then run the plugin which deletes all notes but one from each block chord. It leaves the one that matches the staff number.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

I have a feeling that they copied a lot of UI stuff from Sibelius. And I have a feeling that more and more people will discover MuseScore as a good alternative. I think it's open source. And there's a Javascript plugin-PI. A late add on to the list of available plugins is a clever way to explode and implode staves, which I really need. Now I can write 5 saxophones on one staff, then explode it to 5 staves.

The thing I'm currently writing (mainly as a vehicle to learn Haskell, so don't expect miracles) already supports a fairly clean way of doing this. It doesn't have a GUI, instead it uses text files as input, similar to lilypond, but with a different syntax and semantics. Anyway, with my toy, you'd write four individual voices, then combine them into parts (5 parts containing one voice each, and one to three containing the combined sax voices); parts, in turn, can be combined into views, so you could, for example, have one view for each individual part (containing only the single part), another with just the 5 parts condensed into one, and yet another containing the full score.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Your music typesetting software is broken. It left-aligns rests.

Are you sure? As I understand it, rests should be left-aligned. For example, a crotchet rest should be in line with the first of four semiquavers. I checked this against some piano music my mum bought for me ages ago. The only exception is whole-bar rests, and those look centred to me.

Maybe what you're seeing is just that the spacing isn't very smooth? There's a minim rest a little too close to the bar line, then an unexplained gap to its right.

'Effect' normally has the emphasis on the second syllable by the way. :)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

In single-voice staves, all rests should be left-aligned. It's equivalent to the position if it were a note head. The only exception is the center-aligned whole rest.

When doing multiple parts on a staff, the rest is centered between the left-most and right-most edge the notehead. For example, a quarter note major 2nd in one voice on a single staff and a quarter rest in another voice on that same staff.

I don't think it's that significant. I've seen it done differently by different engravers.

These two books are great:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Notation-Twentieth-Century-Practical/dp/0393950530

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Notation-Manual-Practice-Crescendo/dp/0800854535/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Especially the first one, which includes just about every possible exception. It then goes into unconventional 20th century notation practices like proportional notation and graph notations.

[edit] I highly, highly recommend that first book :) It's very comprehensive. It's also fun to just look at because the book predates computer engraving and was made at the time notation was absolutely perfect. :'(

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

So what are you looking at in the above example? Are you looking at how the rest is aligned against the "A (break)" marking?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

'Effect' normally has the emphasis on the second syllable by the way.

Finally something that adds something to the project. :)

Either this:
{"name":"604843","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/7\/276eb68e8cc31c2d6c43d634c13a5a9e.png","w":906,"h":234,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/7\/276eb68e8cc31c2d6c43d634c13a5a9e"}604843

Or this:
{"name":"604844","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/c\/fcece441f27c8a20b174484c58305e5d.png","w":800,"h":226,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/c\/fcece441f27c8a20b174484c58305e5d"}604844

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

In single-voice staves, all rests should be left-aligned. It's equivalent to the position if it were a note head. The only exception is the center-aligned whole rest.

When doing multiple parts on a staff, the rest is centered between the left-most and right-most edge the notehead. For example, a quarter note major 2nd in one voice on a single staff and a quarter rest in another voice on that same staff.

I don't think it's that significant. I've seen it done differently by different engravers.

Looks like you're right - I've checked some (old, hand-engraved) reference material, and they do in fact align the rests to the left; however, the amounts of spacing they use gives a much more balanced appearance, which is probably what threw me off in this example - the one on the "A (break)" measure has too little space to the left, the one on "-fect!" has too much to the right. Probably just a bad choice of alignment margins rather than wrong alignment altogether.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

I didn't even think about the lyrics! ::)>:(::) Stupid... lyrics. Lyrics really screw up beautiful balance. Singers shouldn't be allowed to have notation. >:(

on-topic

So, what's the tempo of our song? :)

It should be slow, and have a buddy-sing-along shuffle to it. (Imagine people drunk at a bar. Or a Klingon opera song. :P) I say... 96-104, and a lazy swing.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

I'd go for much faster... medium-up swing in 3/4 maybe, and than a fat big band brass section

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Singers shouldn't be allowed to have notation.

??? :P
Hope you're joking. At its best, notation is really beautiful, like some editions of Beethoven's piano sonatas or Bach's Wohltemperierte, where the notation itself becomes music. But singing is an essential part of western music. And notation should never be more important than the music itself. Singers need readable sheet music, too. And it's important how the lyrics fit in here.

About MS#2, my first idea was a jazz walz, which would mean some 160 quarter notes (crotchets) per minute.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

Hope you're joking.

Yea, I am. :P

Quote:

At its best, notation is really beautiful

When I was in college, I would take my razor-sharp laser printed parts to a copier. I would copy them to 25% an then blow that reduction up to 400%. I did that to soften the razor-sharpness so it would look more like ink-printed engraved music. :) It was much nicer to look at.

North~
Member #12,192
August 2010

Hah. Thread reference. giggles

--------------------------------------------------
http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/04/always-initialize-your-memory/

If this is possible if you don't correctly initialize memory, it should be a priority of the highest order.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Singers need readable sheet music, too.

What for? /me ducks

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

/me kicks

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

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