A Monday thread
Johan Halmén

RIP, thread.

Yes, it's Monday. Every 5th year or so, some Monday project might actually get airborne. The lovely thread above made me create this:
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It's the last phrase of a verse or a chorus of a song, the lyrics of which could mention things that we can do, things we find in the Depot etc. As an opening, I wrote something that could be a jazz walz.

If you feel inspired, throw some clever lines here.

Mark Oates

In before the flood! :o

GullRaDriel

Monday thread, and first day of work, I'm just coming back from my holidays !

Tobias Dammers

Your music typesetting software is broken. It left-aligns rests. Sibelius? Finale?

Johan Halmén

Ouch! Didn't notice that. I guess I didn't give time for the software to adjust anything. I only threw it together in 4 minutes. Usually it writes beautiful score.

It's MuseScore, a really great piece of software, worth every cent I spent on it[1]. I think I had version 1.0 on the machine I did that on. Latest version is 1.1. Maybe 1.1 would have drawn it better.

References

  1. Um... yes, it's freeware. And I judge all freeware on a Kelvin scale. There are no negative values.
Mark Oates

That's neither Finale or Sibelius, judging from the treble clef. I want to say some software that uses an old version on lilypond, but I don't think that's it either.

Neil Walker

RIP, thread.

  string str ("All your base are belong to us");
  BOOST_FOREACH( char ch, str )
    cout << str[i];

furinkan

:( I completely missed that thread and the HP thread before it. I think there's something I should be doing...

604840

23yrold3yrold

Must ... resist ... urge ... to ... parody ... Rebecca ... Black ...

furinkan

After reading both threads, I suddenly don't feel so bad for the times I made an ass-hat out of myself here. I may have personality flaws, but I'm not delusional... yet.

It took me awhile to figure out why Trent was mad at him on the HP thread. Matthew was right, I didn't even read that guy's posts. ;D

EDIT:
corrected post, ass-hat is not in the block list :P

Tobias Dammers

Hmm, MuseScore, I see... was going to try it out some time, but the atrocious UI scared me away. The clef does look suspiciously like the one in early lilypond version, with the odd slant to the left.

Anyway, I should keep my mouth shut, as my own software currently still has the same flaw, plus it can't do lyrics at all.

Johan Halmén

I have a feeling that they copied a lot of UI stuff from Sibelius. And I have a feeling that more and more people will discover MuseScore as a good alternative. I think it's open source. And there's a Javascript plugin-PI. A late add on to the list of available plugins is a clever way to explode and implode staves, which I really need. Now I can write 5 saxophones on one staff, then explode it to 5 staves.

Though it is clumsy. You have to create 4 empty staves, copy everything from staff 1 to the 4 others, select all 5 staves, then run the plugin which deletes all notes but one from each block chord. It leaves the one that matches the staff number.

Tobias Dammers

I have a feeling that they copied a lot of UI stuff from Sibelius. And I have a feeling that more and more people will discover MuseScore as a good alternative. I think it's open source. And there's a Javascript plugin-PI. A late add on to the list of available plugins is a clever way to explode and implode staves, which I really need. Now I can write 5 saxophones on one staff, then explode it to 5 staves.

The thing I'm currently writing (mainly as a vehicle to learn Haskell, so don't expect miracles) already supports a fairly clean way of doing this. It doesn't have a GUI, instead it uses text files as input, similar to lilypond, but with a different syntax and semantics. Anyway, with my toy, you'd write four individual voices, then combine them into parts (5 parts containing one voice each, and one to three containing the combined sax voices); parts, in turn, can be combined into views, so you could, for example, have one view for each individual part (containing only the single part), another with just the 5 parts condensed into one, and yet another containing the full score.

Bruce Perry

Your music typesetting software is broken. It left-aligns rests.

Are you sure? As I understand it, rests should be left-aligned. For example, a crotchet rest should be in line with the first of four semiquavers. I checked this against some piano music my mum bought for me ages ago. The only exception is whole-bar rests, and those look centred to me.

Maybe what you're seeing is just that the spacing isn't very smooth? There's a minim rest a little too close to the bar line, then an unexplained gap to its right.

'Effect' normally has the emphasis on the second syllable by the way. :)

Mark Oates

In single-voice staves, all rests should be left-aligned. It's equivalent to the position if it were a note head. The only exception is the center-aligned whole rest.

When doing multiple parts on a staff, the rest is centered between the left-most and right-most edge the notehead. For example, a quarter note major 2nd in one voice on a single staff and a quarter rest in another voice on that same staff.

I don't think it's that significant. I've seen it done differently by different engravers.

These two books are great:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Notation-Twentieth-Century-Practical/dp/0393950530

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Notation-Manual-Practice-Crescendo/dp/0800854535/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Especially the first one, which includes just about every possible exception. It then goes into unconventional 20th century notation practices like proportional notation and graph notations.

[edit] I highly, highly recommend that first book :) It's very comprehensive. It's also fun to just look at because the book predates computer engraving and was made at the time notation was absolutely perfect. :'(

Bruce Perry

So what are you looking at in the above example? Are you looking at how the rest is aligned against the "A (break)" marking?

Johan Halmén

'Effect' normally has the emphasis on the second syllable by the way.

Finally something that adds something to the project. :)

Either this:
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Or this:
{"name":"604844","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/c\/fcece441f27c8a20b174484c58305e5d.png","w":800,"h":226,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/c\/fcece441f27c8a20b174484c58305e5d"}604844

Tobias Dammers

In single-voice staves, all rests should be left-aligned. It's equivalent to the position if it were a note head. The only exception is the center-aligned whole rest.

When doing multiple parts on a staff, the rest is centered between the left-most and right-most edge the notehead. For example, a quarter note major 2nd in one voice on a single staff and a quarter rest in another voice on that same staff.

I don't think it's that significant. I've seen it done differently by different engravers.

Looks like you're right - I've checked some (old, hand-engraved) reference material, and they do in fact align the rests to the left; however, the amounts of spacing they use gives a much more balanced appearance, which is probably what threw me off in this example - the one on the "A (break)" measure has too little space to the left, the one on "-fect!" has too much to the right. Probably just a bad choice of alignment margins rather than wrong alignment altogether.

Mark Oates

I didn't even think about the lyrics! ::)>:(::) Stupid... lyrics. Lyrics really screw up beautiful balance. Singers shouldn't be allowed to have notation. >:(

on-topic

So, what's the tempo of our song? :)

It should be slow, and have a buddy-sing-along shuffle to it. (Imagine people drunk at a bar. Or a Klingon opera song. :P) I say... 96-104, and a lazy swing.

Tobias Dammers

I'd go for much faster... medium-up swing in 3/4 maybe, and than a fat big band brass section

Johan Halmén

Singers shouldn't be allowed to have notation.

??? :P
Hope you're joking. At its best, notation is really beautiful, like some editions of Beethoven's piano sonatas or Bach's Wohltemperierte, where the notation itself becomes music. But singing is an essential part of western music. And notation should never be more important than the music itself. Singers need readable sheet music, too. And it's important how the lyrics fit in here.

About MS#2, my first idea was a jazz walz, which would mean some 160 quarter notes (crotchets) per minute.

Mark Oates

Hope you're joking.

Yea, I am. :P

Quote:

At its best, notation is really beautiful

When I was in college, I would take my razor-sharp laser printed parts to a copier. I would copy them to 25% an then blow that reduction up to 400%. I did that to soften the razor-sharpness so it would look more like ink-printed engraved music. :) It was much nicer to look at.

North~

Hah. Thread reference. giggles

Tobias Dammers

Singers need readable sheet music, too.

What for? /me ducks

Johan Halmén

/me kicks

Matthew Leverton

The general concept behind the song is good. We definitely need more tracks for the A.cc Music CD. >:(

Another thing that is very common among the novice n00bs is the notion that their code is perfect, and that instead the library, the compiler, the OS, or the computer must just be very buggy. I saw a lot of that when teaching first and second level C++ courses, and of course it happens here too. :-X

"I think I found a bug in the rand() function!" a student might say.

"Why are you passing it two parameters?" I may ask as a follow up. :'(

Arthur Kalliokoski

Another thing that is very common among the novice n00bs is the notion that their code is perfect, and that instead the library, the compiler, the OS, or the computer must just be very buggy.

I remember going to school to learn COBOL with punch cards etc. 30 years ago and it was drilled into our heads that the computer never makes mistakes, it might be stupid but does exactly what you tell it every time. This was a bit too much to swallow, but a dozen years later when the Pentium FDIV bug came along, it fell into perspective, that while not impossible it was very, very unlikely.

[EDIT]

OTOH, this was before I got the Borland compiler. :P

Tobias Dammers

"I think I found a bug in the rand() function!" a student might say.

..."it returns a different value each time I call it!" ::)

Well, actually, the fact that when something goes wrong, it's your own stupid fault is one of the things I like so much about being a programmer.

Anyway, back OT: Let's get this song started, shall we? Although I think a jazz waltz is pretty difficult to get right, composition wise.

james_lohr

At work almost every bit of my code that goes wrong is due to Java being inferior to C#. ::) Today it was TreeSet using the comparator instead of .equals to guarantee set behaviour. Yesterday it was a generic list accepting a lookup on an object of the wrong type.

Sure, it was me making stupid mistakes, but it's still annoying that the mistakes are down to the language being a bit of a mess.

I've had to set Netbeans to display string == comparisons as error level because of the number of times I've made this embarrassing mistake. :-/

Bruce Perry

Yesterday it was a generic list accepting a lookup on an object of the wrong type.

Agreed - I hate that!

Johan Halmén

Let's get this song started, shall we? Although I think a jazz waltz is pretty difficult to get right, composition wise

I'm not very picky. If anyone needs some more music to get inspired to write more lyrics, I'll be happy to make some. So far, what we have in my example is only the last phrase of either the verse (A-part) or the chorus (B-part). And there's a hint of what could be a vamp between the verses. Or the actual chords in say the 1st half of the verse: Dm - G/D - Dm7 - G/D

media player

Um... didn't hear a thing from the bass when I did that in 10 minutes. Too small speakers in my monitor.

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