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8.8 Earthquake in Japan
gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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@Thomas: Your old heater was 60% effective? And where did the other 40% go?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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It was given off as waste heat, obviously.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Waste heat? How did the heat get wasted? Was not the heater inside your house? How did it get out?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I should have used the sarcasm smiley.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Sorry. "Lost sense of humor is a sign of strong emotional involvement."
...or just a sign of serious need in a sleep, and reconsideration of drinking amount standards :)

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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type568 said:

Waste heat? How did the heat get wasted? Was not the heater inside your house? How did it get out?

For some reason, it seems like this same question was already answered recently. :P

Have you forgotten what a chimney or vent is for? Do you want your house filling up with exhaust gas? Higher efficiency with a gas furnace involves making sure as little heat escapes in that process as possible.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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OTOH, nuclear power plants don't produce stove oil or natural gas ::).

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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type568 said:

@Thomas: Your old heater was 60% effective? And where did the other 40% go?

What they said. Much of the heat is being wasted, either going up the chimney, or at least not being used effectively. Also the gas is probably not being burned completely, so a lot of the energy is also flowing up the chimney.

Furnaces get less efficient over time, due to various reasons. And old ones started less efficient than current models.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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OTOH, nuclear power plants don't produce stove oil or natural gas .

They produce the electricity required to power the fan and electronics. :o

Anyway, it's going to be a sucky summer in Japan regarding electricity. But that's how it will eventually be everywhere: electricity only being available during a few hours every day. >:(

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Can I change my screen name to Mad Max?

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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@Arthur if you're using a gas heater, the question is off. But wasn't it electrical.. ?

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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You have either reached a page that is unavailable for viewing or reached your viewing limit for this book.

[EDIT]
And now they've been struck by a 7.1 quake.

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NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I noticed someone mentioning light-bulbs in here. I used the old incandescent style, then I switched all my light-bulbs to the supposedly energy efficient bulbs... until one of them blew, it stunk to high heaven of burning rubber and the bulb was so hot you couldn't hold it, I have never felt a light-bulb that hot in my life. I done some research online and there have been several people reporting these things catching FIRE when they blow. There was a lady that had to pay our $3000 for cleanup when one blew due to it cracking and she had to hire people to do mercury cleanup (hazardous cleanup, whatever). Although newer versions no long have mercury that I know of, the fire hazard was enough for me, I switched back to the old style, and to be honest, my energy bill didn't change one penny even though I had the entire place changed over and back, in fact this month my electric bill was cheaper than expected so... I have to wonder how accurate the information is we get.

What worries me is they were talking about outlawing the older style bulbs (incandescent) in Ontario, which is nuts considering the fire hazard of the newer ones. Plus the fact that man made Global Warming is false anyhow and the worry over greenhouse gas is unwarranted... in my opinion anyhow.

I read plenty of reports online that say they're not a fire hazard, but I have also read reports that they HAD caught on fire, the people reporting they had aren't lieing, they merely reported their experiences and I know how hot mine got. I'm paranoid over fire so... I'll pass until forced to use them by law, at which time hopefully they would have improved them.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Fire hazzard? Most of my bulbs have been CFLs for over 5 years now. I haven't had to replace a single light bulb since I moved in, and none of them have had any kind of failure.

I think you were just unlucky to buy a defective or broken bulb. Shit happens. No reason to get all paranoid about it.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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They do last a long time, but wait until one blows, and one WILL blow, you'll see what I mean. The stink is unreal, like strong burnt rubber, and so hot you'll literally burn your hands. Do some reading, they say that them getting REALLY hot that way is normal, and they can tolerate those high temperatures and the fire hazard thing is a myth, but there have been reports of them catching fire when they burn out, so it is NOT a myth, I've read the reports myself.

It wasn't a bad bulb, this is how they normally blow. Getting red hot isn't debated, this is a known thing from what I read. As for "energy savings", I debate that as well, I never saved one penny the several years I had my entire house changed over, now that I have all incandescent bulbs back in, I see no difference and my electric bill is still cheap as always. I honestly think the public's being lied to about these bulbs.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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This is the first time I've heard of one blowing. I think you just got a bad bulb. if ALL of them failed like that they wouldn't even be allowed on the market.

Neil Roy said:

I see no difference and my electric bill is still cheap as always.

It's literally pennies per bulb with normal use, so it'd be hard to see a difference, unless you leave a lot of 100W lights on 24/7. a 60W bulb on 24/7 would cost like 25-50 cents a month.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Neil Roy said:

Although newer versions no long have mercury that I know of

No, they all still do - and plenty of it (around 4 mg).

Quote:

Plus the fact that man made Global Warming is false anyhow and the worry over greenhouse gas is unwarranted

::)

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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It's literally pennies per bulb with normal use, so it'd be hard to see a difference, unless you leave a lot of 100W lights on 24/7. a 60W bulb on 24/7 would cost like 25-50 cents a month.

IIRC, we get charged $0.16 per kilowatt/hour. Times 24x30 that comes out to $115.20 for a 1000 watt device left on for a month straight. A 60W bulb takes 60/1000th's of that, so that works out to $6.91. Subtract the 15W (?) of an equivalent CFL bulb to come up with 3/4 of that to get $5.18. Supposing the bulb lasts 5 years, that $5.18 gets multiplied by 12x5 so that's $311.04 over the lifetime of the bulb. You can buy a low end computer for that much.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Based on the current electricty prices here (or at least last month's prices):

(60 watts) * (1 month) * (0.08 (Canadian dollars / kWh)) = 3.50632511 Canadian dollars

For a month of running a 60W incandescent bulb 24/7. So I guess its a bit more than 50 cents ;) but I think thats what you end up spending on any given light if you only leave it on for a few hours total a day.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I guess if you have children and a large house it may be a good bet. I have a habit of flicking lights off as I leave the room, I don't have to think about it, it's just natural so there's never a light on 24/7 in my home unless I am in the room for that long. ;) That's probably why I never see a difference on my bill.

I don't think it's as big a deal as I hear it made out to be though. I may plug a few CFLs back in, if only because I get tired of changing normal bulbs, but... CFLs just freak me out too much when they blow. ;) I like a good old fashioned bright light + pop sound that makes me jump that incandescent bulbs give me, without the smoke, heat and burnt rubber smell of CFLs. ;D

Why is it when I talk about CFLs I get the urge to play football? :P

EDIT:
Here's a good thread with some people talking about these things failing, with a fairly nasty looking picture.
CFL Ballast Fire

Here's one user's post as an example: "It's happened to me before, we had a light blow up in use in a theater, and it burned happily for about a minute until the nice fire extinguisher put it to rest."

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Nothing like a toxic mercury fire to brighten your day. ;D We bought into the whole CFL bulb craze, but they're not worth it. The supposedly last years longer than incandescent bulbs, but the ones in the garage happily burnt out after only a couple years of infrequent use. Back to incandescent bulbs for me.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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he supposedly last years longer than incandescent bulbs, but the ones in the garage happily burnt out after only a couple years of infrequent use.

Yeah, the older ones definitely don't like the outside, or the cold. They weren't made for that. Next time you try, get ones that were made for that.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Edgar said:

Back to incandescent bulbs for me.

Except the fact that they'll not be still available down here. They already retired 100W and 75W and 60W ones.

August will mark the end of the 40W ones and December 2012 will mark the end of 25W ones.

All these production stops will lead us to have no more incandescent bulbs to sell at the end of 2012.

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