Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » 2053

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2   3 
2053
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

OICW said:

However in my opinion the fate of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was one of the factors we've made it this far without being reduced to cinder.

Hm. Agreed.. Overall that terrible war gave some nice experience to Humanity & perhaps we should thank Hitler & Hirohito for giving us this experience before the nuclear age has actually started.

P.S:
memento mori? ???

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

OICW said:

2053 nuclear devices detonated over the course of 50 years

And how many of those were detonated in the South Pacific because France was too scared to test them in their own back yard?

edit:

Quote:

memento mori?

It means a reminder of our mortality.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Memento mori - Latin for "remember you are mortal" or "remember you must die" i.e. we were given more than fine example of what could happen if we know that nuclear weapon can do big crater in the desert. Because I hardly doubt anyone expected all the sideeffects.

Edit:

LennyLen said:

And how many of those were detonated in the South Pacific because France was too scared to test them in their own back yard?

I'm pretty sure those are accounted in the video. Anyway seems like I've forgot to add that while not good on its own, we can be quite happy that this was in the course of 50 years and not 50 seconds.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

They do not have an English version of that page, but:

-France Pacific tests were done since 1966 to 1996.

"De 1975 à 1996, la France a réalisé 146 essais souterrains en Polynésie. Ils ont été réalisés dans les sous-sols et sous les lagons des atolls de Moruroa et Fangataufa."

Which basically mean that we made 146 try from 1975 to 1996 in the Polynesia undergrounds and Moruroa et Fangataufa atolls.

I won't translate the whole article, but hell France was evil with nuclear tests.
The diseases are multiples. The whole chapter 3 IS about negative nuclear effects.

I apologize, and that's really all I can do :-[

Edit: And ho, BTW Godzilla IS French.

"Le réalisateur, écolo et anti-nucléaire (chose très ancrée dans son pays natal en Allemagne), a écrit le scénario de Godzilla, après une commande de Sony en réaction aux essais nucléaires français lancés par Jacques Chirac en Polynésie, à Moruroa, après son élection de 1995."

Which mean: Roland Emmerich which is an ecologist and anti-nuclear guys (he's from Germany and it's common use there to be anti-nuclear) wrote the Godzilla story for Sonny, reacting to the French nuclear tests started by Jacques Chirac in Polynesia, at Moruroa after he was elected in 1995.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

OICW said:

On the other hand Fatman used implosion design

For a moment I thought you were referring to that retarded thing in... well, you might know what I'm referring to.

Anyway, I always found it a bit sad how the government told everyone to just duck under something in case of a nuclear attack. Like if that was going to prevent something. :-/

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
avatar

American government's plan was to drop as many nukes as possible until japan surrendered

Actually, we were scraping the bottom of the barrel, and put all the uranium we had into the Little Boy bomb.[1] (I believe that all our plutonium was used in the Trinity test and Fat Man bomb, but cannot find a source for it right now.)

Quote:

the effects of the bombings were censored

Where and how?

__________________________________________________
Skoobalon Software
[ Lander! v2.5 ] [ Zonic the Hog v1.1 ] [ Raid 2 v1.0 ]

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Dario ff said:

For a moment I thought you were referring to that retarded thing in... well, you might know what I'm referring to.

Nope, I don't. Probably for the best :)

Dario ff said:

Anyway, I always found it a bit sad how the government told everyone to just duck under something in case of a nuclear attack. Like if that was going to prevent something. :-/

Sadly it's the only thing - apart from staring directly into the flash - you can do. Duck and cover and prey. If you are lucky[1] you will survive the initial blast i.e. the heat and shock wave. If you are out of the vaporization zone there's a chance that you won't be buried under the debris in which case you could get out of there before it starts "snowing". This way you can get out with minimum irradiation coming just from the blast - how much depends on how far you are from the epicentre and how much things were in-between.

References

  1. Though speaking of luck is questionable... I for one would prefer to be instantly vaporized or at least burnt by the heatwave.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

OICW said:

Nope, I don't. Probably for the best

Good, and it's for for the best. If you're curious, here's the link to a youtube video. I know a lot of people don't read comments, but whatever you do, don't scroll down there. You've been warned. You might lose some IQ points.

Quote:

Sadly it's the only thing - apart from staring directly into the flash - you can do. Duck and cover and prey. If you are lucky[1] you will survive the initial blast i.e. the heat and shock wave.

Right--if you're interested, here's the Nuclear War Survival Skills Manual. It's kind of interesting to read some of its chapters, and the results shown of various tests on how people would react after years in a shelter in case of a nuclear war.

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
avatar

WTF. I never realized how much the USA loved testing those things! Remind me never to go to the desert!

-------------
Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
avatar

Well, I suppose in defence of Britain, at least we tested ours in the middle of the ocean or uninhabited islands.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Albin Engström
Member #8,110
December 2006
avatar

type568 said:

The Japanese didn't consider anyone but themselves humans, and believed for some reason that half the globe belongs to them.. 40kt makes some good tools to persuade them being wrong, in my eyes..

Really? I've never heard anything about that, you'd think that such strong hatred for others would preserve and show itself even a little, sure they traditionally have strong feelings against their enemies, but I've never heard of anything racist that would lead to extermination.
I've read a lot about how japanese deny certain services to foreigners(which I think is ok since foreigners probably are ignorant of their customs which are very important) and say all kinds of racist things, but I know A LOT of people who have visited japan from time to time who haven't experienced such things :-/.

The hatred for the japanese can still be felt in america where(according to wikipedia) 13% of the population wanted the total extermination of the japanese during the war 44. While I'm sure the figure has gone down significantly I know an american who knows several people who "don't like the japanese" and "hope they don't come here".

Then again, perhaps those who hate america is more of the silent type.

OICW said:

Ablin: and how did you came to the conclusion I came from the United States of America?

I unconsciously thought of you as an american because most people that say that are americans, but a lot of people who aren't americans also say that(like my dad) so I don't have a valid reason for thinking you're american. My thoughts of the statement in question quickly took over and it was never really about you even though I made it sound like it was.

Talking on a.cc is the almost the only speech training I get so forgive me for being bad at expressing myself. :P

OICW said:

However in my opinion the fate of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was one of the factors we've made it this far without being reduced to cinder. See most of the safety precautions etc. were adopted after some disaster has happened (look at the air transportation as an example). Without (and that's my opinion) Hiroshima and Nagasaki all expectations about nuclear weapons would be theorethical i.e. everybody would know that it could level the whole city to dust, but wouldn't know how horrible sideeffects it has - it was a kind of memento mori.

I don't know anything about japans influence on the war, I never imagined them to be strong enought to conquer the world :S (btw didn't the USA have the upper hand?). I agree, someone had to be first, and "better them than us" is most of the time a good argument. But did anyone else have nukes? or even know about them?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

type568 said:

The Japanese didn't consider anyone but themselves humans

I was into some Japanese Buddhism back in the '80's, and after I became trusted enough, I was told that if I chanted really hard, my karma might become so great that I might have the good fortune to be reborn as a Japanese person! This was told to me with the same attitude that someone might have when hinting to me that I may be the winner of a million dollars. Black people were considered to have very bad karma to wind up in their predicament. Ironically, one of the staunchest Buddhists in the area was a black man who hounded me for years afterward to go back to Buddhism.

I protested their view to an extent, but was pooh-poohed away, since I was obviously stupid as a Buddhist neophyte and mere white person who just didn't get it.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Talking on a.cc is the almost the only speech training I get so forgive me for being bad at expressing myself. :P

Don't worry, there are times I don't express myself good as well.

Albin Engrström said:

But did anyone else have nukes? or even know about them?

At that time nobody, just the USA and only three of them. I'll try to express myself better - it was a lesson for the whole world. Thousands had to die or suffer greatly because of those two bombings, but without it, nobody in the whole world wouldn't knew exactly how scary nuclear weapons are. In my opinion that knowledge was a key to our survival, yet many people had to pay the price.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Really? I've never heard anything about that, you'd think that such strong hatred for others would preserve and show itself even a little, sure they traditionally have strong feelings against their enemies, but I've never heard of anything racist that would lead to extermination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Quote:

I've read a lot about how japanese deny certain services to foreigners(which I think is ok since foreigners probably are ignorant of their customs which are very important) and say all kinds of racist things, but I know A LOT of people who have visited japan from time to time who haven't experienced such things .

In tourist attractions, you obviously won't encounter such things.. They live from money of the tourists. But there's some deep racial issue there, I could write some long essay to fill my words with arguments. I doubt any will read it though, so..

However, I'd suggest you this movie.

Quote:

The hatred for the japanese can still be felt in america where(according to wikipedia) 13% of the population wanted the total extermination of the japanese during the war 44. While I'm sure the figure has gone down significantly I know an american who knows several people who "don't like the japanese" and "hope they don't come here".

Of course, there are racial issues almost everywhere. The question is official position of a government and various laws to fight it. Personal opinion of specific people, is their personal opinion. If someone hates Jews, Arabs, Russians, Americans or whoever.. It's up to them, yet governments have great effects on these opinions. And while in Germany, there's no remaining(or so it seems to me, or at least that's their official position) of any hatred towards the outer world(to which they considered themselves superior), in Japan it's still there. Also the very few online interactions of people whom I found out later to be Japanese- were full of arrogance.

OICW said:

In my opinion that knowledge was a key to our survival, yet many people had to pay the price.

Tokyo firebombings could kill overnight more than one of these nukes.. Or at least comparable numbers. And who knows how long would the war last without'em.. Perhaps that experience came in just as a free bonus after the overall insane cost of whole WW2.

Append:
Threads are downloading slow :(
/But: me is watching "The Next Day", can't wait for the first nukes to land :D
Append1:
"City of Moscow is being evacuated. City of Moscow is being evacuated." ;D ;D ;D
Append2:
".. in an event of a probable attack .."
Append3:
"300 nuclear charges were dropped on Soviet forces.." :D
Append4:
"3,2.. *ICBM launch showed*"
P.S: I suggest this movie to everyone :D
Append5:
Actually it's not funny absolutely :o

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

We don't get those foreign movies here. >:( I guess they can't be that that good. :P

My understanding was that the USA basically wanted to stay out of WWII. Then Japan forced them into it with Pearl Harbor. Sometime thereafter the first nuclear bombs were ready. The USA allegedly gave the Japanese government an ultimatum, warning of the attack, but the Japanese told them to fuck off. First big boom. The USA apparently told them again to surrender and they refused. Second big boom. Surrender. I consider it a valid response.

I am unaware of any racism or hatred between the USA and Japan in modern day times. One could assume that some people feel it (as there are some racist assholes in all parts of the world), but I've never gotten the impression that it's a country-wide consensus. :-/ That would make me sad.

The USA seemed like the peaceful nation prior to WWII trying to stay out of the fight. Perhaps that's when they learned that staying out of it isn't an option for them. And they've been putting their boots in the rest of your asses ever since. :o

The OP's video doesn't really surprise me or frighten me much. I didn't realize that the numbers were in the thousands, but obviously those were mostly just controlled tests. The only actual attacks I know about are those first two in Japan.

What does frighten me are anti-American nations having nuclear weapons. :(

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

gnolam said:

Err. Of the ones you listed, only Israel and North Korea actually have any nukes. And the latter don't even need them - they have Seoul within artillery range.

If they don't have any now, they have had them, and can probably get them.

And thats a pretty poor excuse, North Korea doesn't need inter continental ballistic missiles either if their only target was South Korea, yet they have a very long term development project, with the latest ones able to reach the US, and most of Europe.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
avatar

bamccaig said:

I am unaware of any racism or hatred between the USA and Japan in modern day times.

Well, there's certainly hate from Japan to USA. But what do you expect if they nuked your country :P My Japanese teacher told us something that happened to him when he was in Japan. He was walking in the city and some youngers started to insult him, thinking he was American. After he told them he was Spanish they went with him friendly and invited him to take some drink with them :P

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

gnolam said:

Err. Of the ones you listed, only Israel and North Korea actually have any nukes. And the latter don't even need them - they have Seoul within artillery range.

If they don't have any now, they have had them, and can probably get them.

No. The only nation that has ever had nuclear weapons and given them up[1] is South Africa. Iran naturally wants them, and has the know-how and raw materials to acquire them one day, but Palestine? What are you on?

Quote:

And thats a pretty poor excuse, North Korea doesn't need inter continental ballistic missiles either if their only target was South Korea, yet they have a very long term development project, with the latest ones able to reach the US, and most of Europe.

Correct. They don't need them as a deterrent. They're a useful diplomatic bargaining tool though.

References

  1. Discounting the republics that formed from the breakup of the Soviet Union. Those weapons were arguably never theirs, and were repatriated to Russia. If they were to be counted as nuclear powers, so would every country where foreign nuclear weapons had ever been posted.

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

gnolam said:

but Palestine? What are you on?

You're right. Sorry. I'm not sure where I pulled Palestine out of.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

I'm only sad of one thing - there will be no radar station in the central Bohemia to serve in the antimissile umbrella USA wanted to erect. I wanted to build a summer house as close to the compound as possible. Why do you ask? Simple: a radar station will make prominent first wave target. If the situation in the world gone really bad I'd simply moved to that house and wait for the big flashing moment[1]

References

  1. Because obviously I'd hate to miss out the unique chance to witness a nuclear blast. Plus in case of global thermonuclear warfare I'd really hate to survive the initial attack.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

bamccaig said:

USA basically wanted

Just these three words, make poor sense to me.. The U.S. isn't a person to want or not want something. There were people who did & those did not want the war. Those weapon manufacturers & bankers praised war, and the longer & the more global it is- the better.

Quote:

First big boom. The USA apparently told them again to surrender and they refused. Second big boom. Surrender. I consider it a valid response.

Since there were like 2-3 days between these booms, and these weapons were literally new- it's absolute nonsense. There was not enough time given to realize what has happened after the first boom. Besides, as always- Manchurian offensive is ignored as their argument for a surrender.

Quote:

but I've never gotten the impression that it's a country-wide consensus.

Out of my current understanding of current state of things, Japan has this towards literally the rest of the world. Not specifically the U.S..

Quote:

What does frighten me are anti-American nations having nuclear weapons.

Uh?

If they don't have any now, they have had them [en.wikipedia.org], and can probably get them.

Wiki: .. these figures are estimates, in some cases quite unreliable estimates.

:-/ Besides, as I stated above, it really stinks with upcoming bombings of Iranian nuclear objects this summer, why else would they drag their fleet & aircraft around.. & apply various embargoes vs Iran..

gnolam said:

but Palestine? What are you on?

Nuclear armed Palestine is a good joke, really :D

Quote:

Discounting the republics that formed from the breakup of the Soviet Union. Those weapons were arguably never theirs, and were repatriated to Russia. If they were to be counted as nuclear powers, so would every country where foreign nuclear weapons had ever been posted.

There are rumors, and I won't be any surprised if it's tree- that many of'em went missing.... Nor will I be shocked to find out India Pakistan & North Korea had some use for'em. Just the numbers were really insane, 40 000+(most were in Russia obviously, but still) strategic warheads..

Append:

OICW said:

Because obviously I'd hate to miss out the unique chance to witness a nuclear blast. Plus in case of global thermonuclear warfare I'd really hate to survive the initial attack.

;D

Although, I doubt they would any bother sending it in waves or whatsover. Not until there are any real successful tests at interrupting a flat trajectory ballistic missile traveling 20 times the speed of some bullet.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

bamccaig said:

I am unaware of any racism or hatred between the USA and Japan in modern day times.

Maybe because you don't live in either country. ;)

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

LennyLen said:

Maybe because you don't live in either country. ;)

When I went to Japan, they loved us. Especially the blond blue-eyed guy.

I don't think there's any real substantial hatred or disdain between either country.

--
Visit CLUBCATT.com for cat shirts, cat mugs, puzzles, art and more <-- coupon code ALLEGRO4LIFE at checkout and get $3 off any order of 3 or more items!

AllegroFlareAllegroFlare DocsAllegroFlare GitHub

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

OICW said:

Plus in case of global thermonuclear warfare I'd really hate to survive the initial attack.

Australians wouldn't give up.[1] 8-)

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

When I went to Japan, they loved us.

Did you ever watch the scene in The Last Samurai where they were making a deal at the dinner table to have Aldridge train Japanese troops? So polite, yet conniving in their private conversation in Japanese. Don't get me wrong, I'm a gaijin rice chaser, but kitty has claws.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

 1   2   3 


Go to: