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[official mascot/logo] yes, I think there needs to be one |
Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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[edit front append] [append Important Legal Issue] A brief summary of what has happened so far:
As that logo challenge thread has grown quite large and as it doesn't seem to get attention from any of those "in charge to make decisions", I have decided to create this new thread. What are the goals of this thread? 2.) To let the community choose the three most popular mascots from the resulting list of step 1.). I'd ask Matthew to put them into a poll on the front page, as that is probably the easiest way to get a result(only members should be allowed to vote). 3.) As soon as the poll from step 2.) is closed, artists and non-artists can go and create logos/mascots based on the three most popular suggestions. There needs to be a time limit under which these will be created or else no decision is ever going to be made. (and there need to be some rules for the entries, e.g. they have to be rescalable vector art) 4.) The community would then again choose their favourite logo/mascot from the results of step 3.) 5.) The winning logo/mascot from step 4.) will be included within the lib and will be the "official" Allegro logo/mascot. Other things that the official mascot might be used for after it has been decided upon:
Ok now, first things first, let's start with step 1.) It is really important to give those characteristics and a reason, because this will later aid people in creating the pictures of those mascots. The aim is to create a mascot with character after all and not just some empty iconified animal stereotype with no character at all. --- 0xDB | @dennisbusch_de --- |
amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Good idea. This process is lengthy, but like I said in the other thread I don't think there is a way around that so we just have to deal. I've got a mascotte suggestion: - Allegrotron - Allegrotron is not an animal, but a cute little pet robot that likes to do fun things. He is very handy and agile, and enjoys being programmed to play video games against human opponents. He is looking for human friends to program him and play with. I think Allegrotron should be the mascotte because it symbolizes what allegro stands for: geeks having fun programming and fooling around with video games. (I'd put up Allan the Allegrosaurus again as well, but I think that was shot down pretty effectively in the other thread ) -- |
Elias
Member #358
May 2000
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I think, the logo could be independent from the mascot. Of course, the logo also could contain the mascot, but quite often the logo of something is very simple, without displaying the mascot. I also have a suggestion, picking up Alan the Allegrosaurus - I would like to give it wings, and make it Alice the Allgedron, the little winged dragon of Allegro. Unlike it's old, heavy, slow and outdated dinosaur predecessor, it's fast and lively and bright, with a clean API, motivating to write many games (And using Alice for A5 would mean retroactively using Alan for A4..) -- |
Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000
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Quote: The winning logo/mascot from step 4.) will be included within the lib and will be the "official" Allegro logo/mascot. When was this decided?
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote: When was this decided? And this is the reason we need a decider. To me, it just makes sense. If we have no logo/mascot so far, the one that everyone eventually decides on gets to be official. What exactly is wrong with that? -- |
amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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-- |
spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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Animal: Elephant. Elephants are just cool -- |
Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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The Alex logo has been in the Allegro for a very long time, and I think it was contributed by Johan himself. It also shows up as the icon for Allegro's homepage. Quote: will be featured in a new Allegro demo game as the main character In that case, we can as well go backward and the character of Ted the Scater as our mascot. Or have a "family" of mascots that Ted is partof (Nintendo has a few character icons as well). Quote: will be featured doing different activities in the manual Can you give an example of how you imagine this? Quote: will be leading through a few introductional tutorials about using the library Personally, I've hated tutorials that feature cute animals to explain me how to do things since I left kindergarten, but I suppose it's ok. Again though, how do you see this work? As for an Allegro logo, we have one: {"name":"cooltextUtopia128.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/9\/b9f870f3f9fc0683991898dca82e7c10.png","w":432,"h":134,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/9\/b9f870f3f9fc0683991898dca82e7c10"} EDIT: if we're going for the elephant, Elias can be the mascot. |
Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000
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Quote: What exactly is wrong with that? It sounded like a decision had been reached. I didn't see anything on [AD], nor anything definitive on these forums (as far as I can tell), so I wanted to know where this discussion was had (IRC, I suppose) and between whom. Anyway, I'm not totally opposed, but I'm not too excited by the idea either. Seems like a distraction.
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Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Peter Wang said: When was this decided? That's the problem of it. It hasn't really been decided yet. The whole purpose of this thread is to push forward to making a decision and to get *your*(and that of other devs) attention, so that you can participate in the discussion. I think it's a good idea to let that decision be made by the community as a whole. Another option would be for a great dictator over Allegro to step up and say "This is it <period>.". In that latter case we can all save us the time and the trouble. Who is that great dictator/fearless leader? Who is in charge? Who makes the decisions? Evert said: Some discussion with Johan might be good to clarify some points. We should probably add "Alex the Allegator is a trademark of Free Lunch Design and used with permission" or something like that. That's why the result of the previous discussion was that we need something new and unique, because then the giftware license doesn't need to be changed/restricted at all. Evert said: Can you give an example of how you imagine this? Yes, for example the mascot holding a brush and a painters pallette could be displayed as the section header for the graphics and drawing functions. A piano playing mascot could be used for the sound and music routines. etc. See the examples, created by Matt Smith to which I linked in here. Evert said: Again though, how do you see this work? There'd be a version of the mascot with a long gray beard, glasses and a doctors hat and some pointing device, who would explain basic functionalities with charts, a blackboard, pictures and talking bubbles. That version might also be featured in "nice to know" boxes and "common mistakes". append: Peter Wang said: Anyway, I'm not totally opposed, but I'm not too excited by the idea either. Seems like a distraction. If you're worried that this will add a lot of workload. Well it won't, at least not until decisions are being made for changes to the manual (with header pics of the mascot and those previously mentioned tutorials). --- 0xDB | @dennisbusch_de --- |
Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote: Who is that great dictator/fearless leader?
I think I'm still the dictator on account of no one else wanting to take on that title on the same grounds as me wanting to pass it on (lack of time). Quote: because then the giftware license doesn't need to be changed/restricted at all. The giftware license deals with Allegro. Possible use of Alex the Allegator in the documentation and on the website is a separate issue, I think. Alex isn't actually part of Allegro (well... I suppose he is the default icon as well, so in that sense, he is there). I don't think this makes it nescessary to change the license in any way... Quote: Yes, for example the mascot holding a brush and a painters pallette could be displayed as the section header for the graphics and drawing functions. A piano playing mascot could be used for the sound and music routines. etc. See the examples, created by Matt Smith to which I linked in here. Ok. Well, as I said, I don't like cute animals in manuals or tutorials, but maybe that's just me. |
Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Evert said:
I think I'm still the dictator on account of no one else wanting to take on that title on the same grounds as me wanting to pass it on (lack of time). So, do you have the balls to at least make the decision to approve this way of finding,deciding upon the new logo/mascot? Doesn't really need much of your time, all you need to confirm is point 5.) of the OP. That is, confirm that the logo/mascot that is found by the whole process as decribed in the OP of this thread, will be the offical logo/mascot. Whatever you do, make a decision please. (I can't stand the lack of decisions being made here.;D) And if you don't approve that way, suggest something else. Evert said: Ok. Well, as I said, I don't like cute animals in manuals or tutorials, but maybe that's just me. Well, it's a game development library after all. Time to add some style, soul and character to it(imo). Also, more people might be bothered to read the manual if it has pictures in it. --- 0xDB | @dennisbusch_de --- |
amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Quote: The giftware license deals with Allegro. Possible use of Alex the Allegator in the documentation and on the website is a separate issue, I think. Alex isn't actually part of Allegro (well... I suppose he is the default icon as well, so in that sense, he is there). I don't think this makes it nescessary to change the license in any way... But what is really needed is something that is part of Allegro. Alex can't be part of Allegro, so we need something else. -- |
Elias
Member #358
May 2000
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Well, the way Alex was picked as default icon was just, Johan made it for his game, people liked it, and it was included, as alex.xpm first, without further purpose I think, just so people could use it as logo: Quote: r1275 | tjaden | 2001-10-02 03:35:16 +0200 (Tue, 02 Oct 2001) | 2 lines Added Alex the Allegator icon by Johan Peitz Then much later a .png version and an inlined .c version were added, so it could be used as default icon for all Allegro programs. And I don't think we really need a much stricter process now, with a dictator picking an official logo (or sanctioning an official way to create one). People who want to create a logo should do so because they like to, so it wouldn't be wasted time creating it, whether it is included as official logo later or not. Most of the steps in the outlined process so far seem to be good for that But if e.g. no good logo comes out of it (like in the last logo competition many years ago), there shouldn't be any pressure to select one -- |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Eh. That sounds way to wishy washy. As it is theres nothing that defines Allegro. And imo, I think there should be. -- |
Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote: So, do you have the balls to at least make the decision to approve this way of finding,deciding upon the new logo/mascot? Doesn't really need much of your time, all you need to confirm is point 5.) of the OP. That is, confirm that the logo/mascot that is found by the whole process as decribed in the OP of this thread, will be the offical logo/mascot.
I will not. If you really want me to take a stand on this, then my stand is that something in the way of a mascot is thought of and then proposed to the developers who get to decide if they like it or not and if it gets included or not. In that sense, it's like any other part you might want to contribute to Allegro. Essentially, this is along the same line as Elias' post above. So bottom line, come up with something (collectively) and then post it like you would anyother patch. EDIT: the below post is very sensible too. |
LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Perhaps "Official" is too strict a term. Perhaps it should be presented as a "default"/"generic" logo that people can use unless they wish to create their own. That way, everyone still gets to have input into a community-based logo, but nobody is comitted to using it.
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Thats what we have now. And people seem to think its not enough. Circles. do_circle(world, world->w/2, world->h/2, world->w/2, 0, committee); -- |
Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Elias said: But if e.g. no good logo comes out of it (like in the last logo competition many years ago), there shouldn't be any pressure to select one I agree. If all final entries lack quality and nobody likes any of it then none of them should get picked. Evert said: If you really want me to take a stand on this, then my stand is that something in the way of a mascot is thought of and then proposed to the developers who get to decide if they like it or not and if it gets included or not. In that sense, it's like any other part you might want to contribute to Allegro. Fair enough. It is however a huge amount of work to create something at even semi-professional quality. That's why I think that nobody is going to put a lot of effort into designing a mascot/logo, if it hasn't been previously agreed upon at least the character of the mascot and that the chances are high that if the final graphical representation of that character is any good, it will be put into the library. In other words: I want the developers to monitor and comment on the process of finding the mascot from the beginning on, to save anyone the trouble of pointlessly wasting time at creating something, that by default doesn't have any chance of getting in anyway. LennyLen said: Perhaps it should be presented as a "default"/"generic" logo that people can use unless they wish to create their own. That way, everyone still gets to have input into a community-based logo, but nobody is comitted to using it. I agree but I still think that it would be good to have something that the library can identify with. And also, to minimize the chances that that default logo/mascot will totally suck, I think the process as described earlier will ensure a somewhat high level of quality and will bring artists and non-artists alike the needed motivation to get creative on this issue. Also, since the community will vote about it, the majority of people using the library will like the logo/mascot that gets chosen. Maybe it should be a rule that the winning entry has to have at least a two thirds majority. What do you think? --- 0xDB | @dennisbusch_de --- |
spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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If you don't like the allegrophant... what about an... allegrOwl? -- |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Basically theres two choices here, and one needs to be picked: 1. Start looking for a logo and/or mascot and general overall theme for things like the manual, website and who knows what else. 2. Do nothing, leave everything as it is, decide on nothing at all, and advertise to people that allegro isn't serious, its only for kiddies making useless trinkets, theres no leadership, no order, and no future. edit: Take a look at KDE's new theme. It could not be more polished and slick. Noone will take us seriously if Allegro sticks with the same old decades old crap it has now. edit2: I should say, we have some actual talented artists wanting to contribute, and people are just getting in the way. Do I think we should cater to them. Yes. You either have people with talent, or you don't its as simple as that. -- |
Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000
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Like Evert, I think a mascot in a manual would just put me off. It really would scream "kiddie". If you want something decisive, here it is: we're not putting a mascot in the manual. makedoc does not handle images. Since makedoc will be the documentation generator for the foreseeable future, I don't want any distractions retrofitting image support into makedoc. If you want to update the look of the web site, write alternative tutorials targetted at a younger audience, render a new demo game intro, etc. that's all fine.
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Yay! More Non Decisions! Lets do NOTHING! Right. You do realize theres likely to be several contributers and possible contributers just give up on Allegro due to how they are handled? Everytime a non code question is asked, the Answer is always NO or "Lets not do anything". Its really frustrating to at least ONE person in this thread. -- |
spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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Um.. I think "Allegro is not going to have a mascot" is a pretty clear decision. -- |
Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000
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Did you just need someone to say "yes"?
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