No, but I'm sure Final Fantasy 7 has a lot to do with his love of the PS.

So apparently there are limitations to the Dual-Shock/Six-Axis design whereas the Wiimote is a virtually infinitely capable controller... Somebody's disqualified from this debate.

Both controllers have limitations. I have been using the Dual-Shock controller for a long time for a variety of game genres (RPGs, shooters, driving/racing) and it has an excellent design for all of them.

In my experience the Wiimote doesn't seem to. It's more blocky.

Not really. It might contribute, but there are a lot of other factors that contribute more. Besides, FF7 was released on other platforms too.

I don't know if I should feel insulted or flattered.

As I design industrial as well as commercial control systems all day I'm well qualified to tell you what you can do with a handful of digital and analogue inputs. The SIXAXIS controller expands what the Dual Shock has with the addition of basic tilt sensitivity that lends itself well to relatively simple actions that involve balancing or rotation. As it is not designed to be a fully motion-sensitive controller it doesn't have the broad scope of implementation possibilities the Wii Remote has -- it's that simple.

As I've said before you can lead someone to the compound but you can't make them drink the Kool-aid. I can't offer you any more assistance.

I was trying to say that there are different user groups. As you clearly stated you have played quite a lot with the dual shock and it is now an extension of your brain. This is however not true for most of the population. Something that looks more like a remote or a regular handle is.

I'm sure the PS3 is a great platform, but it is targeting hard core gamers which are very few compared to non/casual gamers. For hard core gamers it will be greater than great. And the people who like singstar might even know a hard core player where they can play it, but I doubt they will shed out the cash to own it.

For a serious gamer, yes. But for the general public I think the big thing is the marketing and the familiy friendly appeal. Simple and easy, everybody can play. Look at how the iPod has conquered the portable music industry. Simple and easy, no fuss. Everyone can play. Trust me, not everybody likes long lists of tech specs and black things filled with testosterone.

The fact is that the majority of the world has other interests and wouldn't spend a lot of money on gaming. There are some you can convince to play Wii and some might even get it, but the majority of non gamers will remain non gamers. Wii requires similar abilities as any PS3 game so if they don't enjoy PS3 games they won't enjoy most Wii games either. At least, no more than playing catch in the real world.

Not the whole world. Only the gaming world. I don't even know if you would consider me a hardcore gamer, though if I had the time and paper I would be.

The casual market has other things to spend money on than video games. For example, the casual gamer has other things on their mind like developer tools, sports equipment, movies and other entertainment, etc. The casual gamer doesn't invest as much into the video game industry as the hardcore gamer does. Sure, there might be more casual gamers then there are hardcore gamers, but I expect the hardcore gamers are still putting more money into the industry. Actually, it's the hardcore games (the games that most appeal to hardcore gamers) that are earning more money than the rest. Both casual and hardcore gamers alike usually love those games.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to play a PS3 game. If you're having trouble that's definitely not Sony's fault.

You're comparing Nintendogs to GTA: Vice City Stories!? I haven't been able to find profit information for the two games. It's possible that Nintendogs was more successful, regardless of what the better game really is, but the portable market isn't exactly a hardcore gamer market. In fact, it largely appeals to children... Those children grow out of Nintendo and into PlayStation. Also keep in mind that parents buying a portable system for their children are likely to get them the cheaper product which limits the game purchases to that platform.

My understanding is that GTA: VCS wasn't a very good game compared to the high quality versions available on the consoles and PC. It looks awesome for a portable game, but portable gaming isn't very big. I don't expect too many people would buy the PSP simply for GTA: VCS (especially after it was released on PS2 as well).

I don't see Nintendogs selling for as high of a price as a GTA game either, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the GTA code was ported from other platforms to cut down on time and money. There's simply not enough information available to compare.

I think the PSP is an awesome hand held and a lot better than the DS, but I think Nintendo has the portable market because Sony hasn't been focusing on PSP.

You know, I might have to sig that.

Well, yes, because Vice City Stories is the representation of hardcore gaming in the portable world. I was going to tell you that Nintendogs and Brain Age each sold more than Halo 2, but then you would say it is not just because those games are cheaper. Then I was going to tell you that Wii has three million seller games, but you would complain that a) Wii Play comes with a bundled controller, b) Wii Sports is bundled, and would dismiss Japan buying over a million copies of the game because Japan is not like US (or Europe, no idea where you are from), and c) Twilight Princess is for hardcore gamers. At Wikipedia we have three certified million sellers for PSP and 19 for Nintendo DS.

Note that the portable market is expected to beat, by the "end" of this "generation", the home console market.

Let's try something easier: Microsoft and Sony have both platforms that are appealing to the hardcore gaming world, ok? Nintendo is aiming at the casual world. Sony tried with LocoRoco and failed, Microsoft tried with Viva Piñata and failed. Nintendo got it. Now, we just need to sit down and wait to see whether the casual gaming market is as big as Nintendo (and I, mind you) thinks it is, or if the hardcore area is bigger.

Bingo! A company that is not a monopoly MUST adjust its product to fit the market, not the way around. Why few people use Gaim compared with, say, Trillian? Why people prefer Photoshop instead of Gimp, 3D Studio instead of Blender, Windows instead of Linux, etc? User friendliness. Something that is user friendly will always start with an advantage.

I check the NeoGAF forums pretty often (although I don't have an account there), and would die to ask a PS3 fan how long it will take for the console to gain momentum. I read people stating it will sell more on launch, but it didn't happen, then January after the holiday seasons because Wii would stop selling, but it beat Xbox and PlayStation, then March because Sony showed Little Big Planet and Home... now October... as in NeoGAF is usually pointed, that is what GameCube owners kept saying until they could not deny the truth

Oh, nobody denies the PSP is awesome. But it is well ahead of its time. So ahead that it is shunned as a gaming machine, and instead used for watching videos (software sales are terrible for a Sony product).

To keep it simple, let's summarize the facts: Nintendo DS is the best selling portable console of this generation. Xbox 360 is the best selling home console of this generation. Let's see by the end of this year whether these two statements still hold true or not. If they are true, we can detect a trend. If they are not, we can make new conclusions.

Dude, using your definition of best console, the Xbox was the best last gen. Also, the PS2 may have been the worst (Not counting Dreamcast BTW, it disappeared before Xbox and GameCube came out)

And for some reason, I'm remembering that some specs I read on the PS2 made it out to have only 20MB of memory total (CPU + GPU + shared). If them specs were wrong, and claims the GameCube had less memory are true... Ouch!

So, power is directly proportional to the potential, but contradicts the next quote:

The PlayStation 2 was basically a generation behind Xbox (Xbox was 3 or 4 times more powerful than PlayStation 2, more memory, better graphics and sounds, better online capabilities, etc), yet PlayStation 2 sold more. Nintendo 64 was a more powerful console than PlayStation, yet PlayStation sold more.

Now, if when saying "potential" you include "games that will be made", now there we need to stop. This is an industry, and while players expect companies to be loyal to the fans, they only care about business.

• Square Soft switched to PlayStation because it was in their interests to use CD-Rom technology (cinematics and lower costs).

• Capcom ported Resident Evil 4 to PlayStation 2 (and now to PCs) regardless of their exclusive deal with Nintendo.

• Capcom is making Devil May Cry 4 multiplatform regardless of fan outcry. You can either sell to a market of 3 million PlayStation 3 or to a market of 3 million PlayStation 3, 10 million Xbox 360 and 100 million PC. Other publishers like Ubisoft and Koei thought the same.

• Square Enix is creating Dragon Quest IX, the best selling game in Japan, in the console with the biggest install base, highest sales and cheapest to develop.

• Take Two ported Vice City Stories to PlayStation 2 even though they assured everyone it was PSP exclusive.

• Microsoft considers that a Viva Piñata game on Nintendo DS makes sense.

• Sony did not think about all the textures they would add to a game when designing the Blu-ray. It is a strategic movement, and they will happily give up the gaming market in order to make Blu-ray the standard. They tried with Betamax, and lost to VHS. They tried with MMCD and lost agaisnt Toshiba's SD (which would ultimately become the DVD). They are trying again with Blu-ray. The gaming sector is insignificant compared to the media storage market.

Even hardcore-focused companies like Take Two must learn the lesson; Bully and Grand Theft Auto alone can't save them. Guess you know the shareholders kicked the previous management and put a new one that will focus on Wii as much as on PS3. Majesco sold well with hardcore gamers, but not enough to pay for licenses, and now they focus on portable and low budget hits. This is an industry, and nobody wants to do an Atari and disappear.

So, companies will do what makes sense to them. Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4 will launch on PS3, no doubt. But as a company, it makes sense to either go multiplatform or delay the launch 6 months. They could launch regardless, some companies take risks (Nintendo switched Super Paper Mario from GameCube to Wii to increase Wii sales, even though they could have sold much more by leaving it as a GameCube with a 22m install base or by going multiplatform), but seriously, as a company you won't mind what fans will think. I seriously doubt a CEO can use "We want our fans to be happy" to explain shareholders why they launched a game exclusively in a console with less than a fifth of market share. Sony will have to pay dearly for that exclusivity, apparently more than what they offered to Capcom for Devil May Cry.

Sony created the most advanced (in terms of raw power) game machine indeed. But so did Atari with Lynx, SNK with Neo Geo, Panasonic with 3DO, Atari again with Jaguar, Nintendo with Nintendo 64, Microsoft with Xbox, Sega with DreamCast and Sony with PlayStation Portable. And at the end of the day, all those "most advanced" consoles did not lead the market. In the end, this is business.

(Edited: I notice someone already pointed out about Xbox being more powerful... that is just because the option to show new posts is not enabled... Matthew, we need it! )

ReyBrujo: You do know the Dreamcast is in the same gen as the Xbox right? So which was more powerful of last gen?

L O L

This thread is turning into something hilarious. I will try not to post in it anymore since no one is going to change their minds anyway. But please keep it up!