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| Wii Excitement |
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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Quote: I don't know about you, but I don't have a whole lot of time for games right now anyway... I still haven't opened FFXII from Christmas...
I opened my copy of FFXII, but only got about 10 hours before I didn't have time either. Quote: In any case, the PlayStation 3 is still the better deal.
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Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Quote: In any case, the PlayStation 3 is still the better deal Yep, because paying hundreds of dollars more for a box that would likely sit on my floor doing nothing untill Grand Theft Auto comes out in October is a better deal by far. I've looked at the games out for PS3 at EB games and none of them interest me. Wii has several titles that I can think of off the top of my head that I would probably enjoy. Edit: ================================================= |
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Samuel Henderson said: So if I pay hundreds of dollars more to get a cell processor and a blu-ray player that I wouldn't use untill October would I really benefit from your better deal? What's different about buying a Wii now and falling off in a matter of months or a year when it's hype evaporates versus buying a PlayStation 3 now before the mass games are released and not gaming with it right away and then it taking over?
There is no difference. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote: What's different ... answer: __________ |
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I never really said that you should buy a PlayStation 3 right now either. I just said that it's better than the alternatives. It's been better since it was a proposal, long before it was available. There's no point buying a Wii (nor 360) now just because it's market exists (only because of an early release date and lower quality product) versus waiting for the PlayStation 3's market to develop. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
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Johan Peitz
Member #9
April 2000
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Quote: It's been better since it was a proposal, long before it was available. And with better you mean what? And for whom? -- |
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Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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I don't really think the whole "Wii hype" will be evaporating any time soon either. Nintendo has managed to attract the attention of many 3rd party developers including Take Two Interactive (the current developers of the coveted GTA series). With good developer support one can expect a variety of innovative and entertaining titles. ================================================= |
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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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People really don't know what to think about the future of the Wii. Many say it will get squashed once the big hitters of the other consoles come (and/or fall too far behind in other areas to compete) and others say it's revolutionary (remember the code name?) and is here to stay. The thing is, the Wii is the better deal now. When and if the ps3 starts chuggin' later on, it's not like I'll be "Man, I can't believe I have this stupid Wii...I hate having fun!" In other words, the Wii will still be a good deal in the future, maybe not the better deal, but a good deal nonetheless. Eventually, the ps3 will come down in price. Then and only then will it stand a chance of being a better deal. ------------ |
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Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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I think Onewing has managed to sum things up very elegantly Edit: ================================================= |
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Johan Peitz said: And with better you mean what? And for whom? Using the word "best" to describe something by itself doesn't concern itself with price. The best is quite literally describing which entity most exceeds the competition. In any case, I'd still argue that for the price the PlayStation 3 is still the best system all things considered. Onewing said: Eventually, the ps3 will come down in price. Then and only then will it stand a chance of being a better deal.
The price isn't the problem. It's annoying when people expect good things to be free... If you don't need the best you can settle for a Wii or 360.. I agree that all systems are nice and they each have something to offer. It's undeniable though that the PlayStation 3 has the most to offer. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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The thing that worries me about the Wii is its gimmicky nature. Yes, we've seen some cool and creative games come out since its release, like Wario Ware and such, but... how long can it go on, really? How much can you really do with the Wiimote before the control scheme just becomes strained and inappropriate? How many games can you really cook up where waving a stick around is going to be a relevant and interesting part of the gameplay? If - or maybe 'when' - this happens, we'll all just go back to using a gamepad instead... and at that point, the Wii will have lost the very thing that made it unique. Will this happen, and if it does, will it actually have that great an impact? I don't know. But one should keep it in mind. As for the PS3, right now it's mostly just an overpriced Blu-Ray player. Before the market kicks off (and let it be said that even when it does there's no guarantee it will surpass the already flourishing Wii/Xbox360 market), I just don't see it worth spending five hundred and ninety-nine US dollars on. -- |
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deps
Member #3,858
September 2003
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Quote: If you don't need the best you can buy a Wii or 360.. You don't need expensive hardware to enjoy a game. I don't think the ps3 is the best console. It got the best hardware, but that doesn't automatically make a game good. |
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Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Quote: If - or maybe 'when' - this happens, we'll all just go back to using a gamepad instead To disclaim my thoughts: this is just my opinion. Yes, the Wiimote is gimmicky but at the same time, feels pretty natural in the hand. I don't need a manual on how to use it, I pretty much pick it up and start playing. To me, that's what a gamepad essentially is. True, the "new way to play games" is pretty much the Wii's angle, but I never considered it that way. I still consider it pick the controller and start playing, like any other console. The thing about the Wii is it is limited on the hardware and promotes thinking out-of-the-box, which I think is a good thing. I don't play games for outstanding performance, I play them for fun. Once again, my opinion. [edit] ------------ |
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Onewing said: The masses seemed to be fooled into thinking performance > fun. Nah, performance = potential. The Wii is limited by its hardware which forces "out of the box games" to be the main focus for it. If you look at the history of game titles, most of them are improvements on evolving game designs. Most of us can describe the best gaming experience, but our hardware is limiting what games can be today. The limitation hasn't really been the controller over the years, rather, it's mostly speed and capacity. As that improves so do the games. Sure, fun is why you play the games, but you don't need an innovative controller for fun. NES games can still be fun and even Flash games are fun. The controller is merely an interface between the human and the computer. The only thing you should care about in a controller is being able to comfortably communicate with the computer at a fast pace and for long periods of time. If you think about, the Wiimote requires more energy to communicate your inputs. While the Wiimote makes playing games fun as well (a little bit like playing a sport I think the controller should be an interface between the computer and human. It's good to be more natural and precise, but there are other things to consider. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
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Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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Quote: The Wii is limited by its hardware which forces "out of the box games" to be the main focus for it. Is it really? Gotta stop and ask yourself if there is anything you can do on the PS3 that you can't already on the PS2? The answer is no. I'm just being realistic; you'll be playing the exact same games on the PS3, just a little prettier and with slightly improved physics. Look at the 360's roster and tell me what we're playing now. I think people are being horribly myopic about the whole power thing. Certainly it hasn't impacted the handheld sector where developers are making incredibly entertaining games with limited resources. Quote: The controller is merely an interface between the human and the computer. The only thing you should care about in a controller is being able to comfortably communicate with the computer at a fast pace and for long periods of time. Wrong-o. The controller is how you interact with the game, which means that it is functionally more important than any processor, graphics chipset, or networking ability. A good developer designs their game around the control setup, not the other way around. Putting it into a 'real world' scenario, would you prefer to venture to a foreign country with a translator equipped with a 500 word database, or one with 10,000? --> |
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ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Quote: What's different about buying a Wii now and falling off in a matter of months or a year when it's hype evaporates versus buying a PlayStation 3 now before the mass games are released and not gaming with it right away and then it taking over?
USD 350 Some people don't acknowledge evolution until it is too late. Atari suffered it with his ET game, Nintendo with the CDRom, and now Sony with the controller -- |
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Sirocco said: Gotta stop and ask yourself if there is anything you can do on the PS3 that you can't already on the PS2? The answer is no.
The answer is actually yes. The six-axis controller is new and the much faster processor and graphics processor will allow many more objects to be drawn making the scene more realistic. The video of GTA IV looks amazing... The city actually looks like a city packed with cars! It will also allow for a lot more content and game-play. Things like how GTA has minigames everywhere. More capacity and speed allows there to be more and more of these which makes the game feel more real. You should be able to steal a taxi cab and pretend to be a cabi and drive fares, for example. There are thousands of things that are done in a city and I hope that there is much more to do in GTA IV. Sirocco said: I'm just being realistic; you'll be playing the exact same games on the PS3, just a little prettier and with slightly improved physics. They aren't the exact same. The are much improved. As far as PS3 games, they will be much more detailed and the physics can be much improved as well. Sirocco said: Certainly it hasn't impacted the handheld sector where developers are making incredibly entertaining games with limited resources. Again with the "you don't need power to have fun" argument. No, you don't. Then again, it helps a lot. What do you think has been driving computer hardware to the capacities and speeds they are at? Sure, server hardware is an influence on processor speeds and memory capacity, but processor speed, memory capacity, and graphics processing are largely being driven by the gaming industry. We can't get hardware that's fast enough or with high enough capacity. Power, meaning speed and capacity, is the most desired. Sirocco said: The controller is how you interact with the game, which means that it is functionally more important than any processor, graphics chipset, or networking ability. A good developer designs their game around the control setup, not the other way around.
The game controller does need to be considered for game-play, but it shouldn't dictate the game. The controller is definitely not more important than the processor, graphics chipset, networking, or memory. Sirocco said: Putting it into a 'real world' scenario, would you prefer to venture to a foreign country with a translator equipped with a 500 word database, or one with 10,000? Okay, now imagine you have one translator than requires you to write down everything you say (an analogy for doing extra work to communicate the same information) because they can only read/write your language or a translator that can read/write and speak your language. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Quote: The controller is definitely not more important [for gameplay] than the processor, graphics chipset, networking, or memory. I nominate this for "Most Idiotic Gaming-Related Statement Of The Year." It should be a shoe-in. -- |
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Johan Peitz
Member #9
April 2000
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Quote:
The controller is definitely not more important than the processor, graphics chipset, networking, or memory. I beg to differ. No one who has never played a video game and sees the sixaxis/dualshock controler would bother trying out the kind of hard core games that is available on PS3/360. It's just too complicated. As you say games are often based on earlier games but this is a trap for the game industry as this fails to bring in new players. Games nowadays like C&C3 etc more or less require that you've player countless of similar games before. With a less conservative controller people people have different ideas of what it's used for. Simpler is one thing. Quote:
The video of Grand Theft Auto IV looks amazing... The city actually looks like a city packed with cars! Personally, I cannot think of anything more unintersting. -- |
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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote: I nominate this for "Most Idiotic Gaming-Related Statement Of The Year." It should be a shoe-in. Indeed. All my favourite games can be played on a Pentium II or [in many cases much] earlier processor.
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Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Quote: What do you think has been driving computer hardware to the capacities and speeds they are at?
You honestly think / believe that the Come to the OLG and look at the demands for data storage, processing power, network capacity etc. etc. I would say huge organizations both create the need and fund the development for complex solutions to age old problems. And as far as graphics processing goes, given the explosion of computer generated imagery in movies/advertising/tv the ability to capture more complexity and detail would stil be in demand. As an example, the OLG has just purchased several FireGL V7350 1GB PCI-Express card at a whopping $1,999 a card. These cards are going to be used to drive some 30 ft Screen in Toronto. I would say that if anything much of the current hardware is passed/watered down from what the big organizations used a few years ago. Kinda like how some other consumer products were developed by the Military and whatnot. Edit: ================================================= |
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ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Your argument is basically: "Buy the console, wait for the games" Unfortunately, most don't agree. USA, March 2007 showed Wii selling 259,000 units and 508,000 DS (with shortages) while PS3 sold 130,000. Japan, March 2007 shows a similar trend: 263,000 Wiis and 504,000 DS. Don't even ask how many PS3 sold in Japan during March, I think it did not even reach 100,000 units. Considering what Bandai Namco stated, that they need to sell half a million units of a game to cover game development, third party exclusives for such a small install base is out of question. That is why Dragon Quest VII launched on PS, Dragon Quest VIII on PS2 and now Dragon Quest IX on DS. Either the console has a huge install base, or the company pays for the exclusivity, something Sony appears not to do. That is why so many exclusives (Assassin's Creed, Grand Theft Auto IV, Fatal Inertia, Bladestorm and lately Devil May Cry 4) are no longer for PS3 only. Right now, the only heavy cards left in PS3's deck are Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4, and while I don't think MGS4 would move to Xbox 360, nobody says Square won't do that with FFXIII. GameCube loyalists kept stating "wait for the games" and the games arrived and left with little impact. You cannot buy a console for the games that may come, that is like buying a coffin for the accident you may have. You buy something to use it now. And if you don't care about the multimedia capabilities, buying a USD 600 piece of hardware to keep it just in case something good appears is nonsense. I would pay it if I were really interested (heck, my mobile phone was more expensive than the PS3), but in this case, the utility for a console is to play games, and without them, it wastes room. Unless, of course, you think there will be shortages of PS3: (Edited: Dang, linking to images is not working!) Here {"name":"20070309.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/4\/a475f74a6a50b331f2bae20f5cd1d49e.jpg","w":750,"h":376,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/4\/a475f74a6a50b331f2bae20f5cd1d49e"} -- |
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Johan Peitz said: I beg to differ. No one who has never played a video game and sees the sixaxis/dualshock controler would bother trying out the kind of hard core games that is available on PS3/360. It's just too complicated. What exactly were you trying to say there? If you're trying to say that the Six-Axis/Dual-Shock design is poor then you're completely wrong. It's the best game controller I have ever used and that includes the Wiimote (I'm sure there are millions that would agree, whether or not they are on Allegro.cc). I don't feel comfortable with the Wiimote. I've played literally hundreds or thousands of hours with the Dual-Shock controller design and I still love it. It's the best controller design to date. ReyBrujo said: Your argument is basically: "Buy the console, wait for the games" [etc...] Actually,... bamccaig said: I never really said that you should buy a PlayStation 3 right now either. I just said that it's better than the alternatives. What's better: buying the hype product now or buying, or waiting a few months to buy, the best/dominant product for the next 7 years?
-- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
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ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Why it is better? Because of its potential. But the potential won't be demonstrated without games, and PS3 is doing poorly there. Somehow, I think your first console was Sony branded Quote: What's better: buying the hype product now or buying, or waiting a few months to buy, the best/dominant product for the next 7 years? No console will survive 7 years if sales continue to be as poor as the current ones. Even you should already notice that PS3 exclusives are moving to Xbox 360. That should give you a hint. -- |
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Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Quote: I don't feel comfortable with the Wiimote Speak for yourself, I'm sure there are also millions out there who have used both and say the Wiimote feels just fine. I know I for one feel this way. The argument that you have to expend more energy using the Wiimote is not exactly true either. Last night I got home from Sutherlands around 1:00am completely exhausted. I flopped down on the couch and started playing some Twilight Princess using only the minimalist amount of effort to flick my wrists and nothing else. I would guess that the same amount of effort would be exerted using the six-axis controller. As for players who are somewhat handicapped / slower, one can turn around argue the exact same thing for the PS3. In the example you mention (Boxing) players have the option of setting handicaps and such to help balance things out for inexperienced/slower players. ================================================= |
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