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The anti-christmascard
23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

I think freedom of speech should outweight the small problems with certain persons ;)

This is a privately owned website. Matthew could delete every thread on religion if he wanted and not be stepping on your rights at all; like I said, you can just go to another (more appropriate) site.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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Shouldn't we give the good example?
you know Democracy and so. ;D

[Edit]
-----------------
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Dictator
-----------------

There goes our democracy ;D;D;D

[/Edit]

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Democracy doesn't suddenly mean you can do whatever you want without consequence. ::) Not that this place is a democracy, nor should it be ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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How come this thread is still open?

I don't believe in any gods. However, they must be real, because we can feel the effects they have upon humanity (mainly wars -- and flamewars :P). Yet that would mean that all gods do exist and then no religion is 'the true one'. :o

-R

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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If there is any god it would not allow such bad things happen (like wars, etc.)...

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Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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A god doesn't necesarily need to be good.
Several religions believe in gods of war and disease and other bad stuff.

So I don't think that there cannot be any god. I just don't think they are good enough for me to spend time worshipping them.

I do however think that there is no good and allmighty god, because then we wouldn't have the common cold or hangovers or wars etc...

DevC Studios
Member #8,009
November 2006

Christmas is the only day they preach about being good to mankind. Otherwise, you are free to hate anyone and everyone you meet until then.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Yes, it's like Mother's day, when you have to be kind to your mother. And your birthday, when everybody has to be nice to you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Todd Cope
Member #998
November 2000
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Quote:

Witches only have one "commandment" DO NO HARM !

Interesting, this is very similar to what Jesus taught.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Quote:

I do however think that there is no good and allmighty god, because then we wouldn't have the common cold or hangovers or wars etc...

Quite true, actually. :) Logic ftw.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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Quote:

Interesting, this is very similar to what Jesus taught.

There have been a lot of wise people in history who thaught this.

- Buddha

- Gandhi

- Quetzalcoatl (Featherd snake)
Interesting since he was a white man with blonde hair and NO western man knew about the new world at that time.

- Jesus

to name a few ;)

Quote:

A god doesn't necesarily need to be good.
Several religions believe in gods of war and disease and other bad stuff.

True but it's a bit more complicated.
In history Gods of disease , Death and destruction where also gods of Healing and life.

It's an old wisdom that to heal, something must die or be destroyed.

And this is more true than you might think.
For example a Defibrilator stops your heartbeat, it actually kills you (for a moment) so your lifeforce can take over again.

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

Andrei Ellman
Member #3,434
April 2003

Quote:

There have been a lot of wise people in history who thaught this.

One of the things that I like to do is to try and abstract religions. Many of them have common themes (eg. a wise person or an incredibly kind person inspired a great feeling of awe in their tribe). I've found that many religions consist of an undelying philosophy with a culture attatched to it. The underlying philosophy of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is pretty much the same (although there are a few differences here and there) - most of the differences are cultural. Together, these religions are known as the Abrahamic religions. Further abstraction could even lead to some connections with the Dharmic religions.

Taoism is a philosophy that just exists on it's own (it's debatable whether or not Taoism is a religion or not). Many religions are compatible with Taoism. It has no associated rituals, and the great thing is you get to make up your own. You can immagine that Taoism is to religion what Lua is to programming languages.

AE.

--
Don't let the illegitimates turn you into carbon.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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I don't know much about LUA but I DO know about Taoism ;)
John Blofeld wrote some interesting books about it.

Taoism is a religion but it's NOT a belief ;)

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Dammit, now you force me to go back into the thread.

<math>religion \subset beliefs</math>

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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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I wonder what religions the Aliens out there in the Universe believe in? :)

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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Quote:

Dammit, now you force me to go back into the thread.

<math>religion \subset beliefs</math>

<math>beliefs \subset religion</math>
All beliefs are religions, but not all religions are beliefs.

Example:

Buddhism is a religion but it is not a belief
freemansonry is a religion but not a belief
Humanism is a religion but not a belief
Christianity is a belief thus also a religion
Hinduism is a belief thus also a religion

Quote:

I wonder what religions the Aliens out there in the Universe believe in?

You dont't believe in a religion, you have a religion and somtimes this means believing in certain things ;)

[shockwarning]
Atheism is a religion too but most of them go bananas if you tell them so ;D
[/shockwarning]

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Quote:

You dont't believe in a religion, you have a religion and somtimes this means believing in certain things ;)

Stop trying to be clever. :P

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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TFD said:

re·li·gion [rɪˈlɪdʒən]
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Shall we go on?

Richard Phipps said:

[quote Nil ears]You dont't believe in a religion, you have a religion and somtimes this means believing in certain things ;)

Stop trying to be clever. :P
</quote>
I concur.

Nil ears said:

Atheism is a religion too but most of them go bananas if you tell them so ;D

I'm not going to dignify that with anything other than "::)".

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Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

All beliefs are religions, but not all religions are beliefs.

Not at all! As gnolam posted, a religion is (loosely) a set of customs around or based on a belief. However, it is quite possible to belief something without being religious. I think you're confusing phylosophy or way of life with a religion; it's neither. In practice though, some beliefs are coupled with a certain phylosophy and a particular religion.

Quote:

You dont't believe in a religion, you have a religion and somtimes this means believing in certain things ;)

No, you belief in something and sometimes that means you follow a certain religion.

Quote:

Atheism is a religion too but most of them go bananas if you tell them so ;D

Again, you're confusing matters: atheism is a belief (specifically, the belief in there not being any god(s)). It is not a religion.

m c
Member #5,337
December 2004
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If i remember correctly, the new testament was written at about 60 AD and so obviously they didn't have enough time to forget the truth, nor could they have enough time to let their imagination exagerate it.

And the old testament was written about 336 BC, so they really knew what was going on. You can take everything that the old testament says as gods own words.

However! The thing that pisses me off the most is when people actualy want to believe, they are truly interested in the true religion, yet they are filled with misinformation. If only they knew, they would feel so embarased, but at least they could fit in properly in the afterlife. So everybody who beleives in morality should go to church. This is because god is a homosexual, otherwise he would have a partner wouldn't he?

No partner = teh gh3y. Also he doesn't like you. You are not funny enough. You should commicly kill yourself so that he laughs and is still laughing or just finishes by the time you fully die so it is still a fresh memory and has a positive impact.

Something that is all trippy like ball bearings rolling down some slides making clock-work things do stuff and then a big thing crushes you and sprays blood on a cat which runs away but slips, and falls inside a toaster and gets eletrocuted. Something like that.

(\ /)_____#_____####__#
(O.o)¯¯¯#¯¯¯¯¯#¯¯¯#¯¯#
(> <)__####__####__####
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Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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Quote:

Something that is all trippy like ball bearings rolling down some slides making clock-work things do stuff and then a big thing crushes you and sprays blood on a cat which runs away but slips, and falls inside a toaster and gets eletrocuted. Something like that.

Remember: winners don't use drugs.

-R

Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
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Quote:

atheism is a belief (specifically, the belief in there not being any god(s))

That's strong atheism. Strong atheism requires just as much faith as theism.

I am a weak atheist. I will believe in God when there is sufficient evidence for me to do so. Weak atheism is simply the default state -- what everyone is born into. It requires no "belief".

To sum up...

Strong atheism: I believe there is no God.
Weak atheism: I don't believe in God.

And for bonus points...

Agnosticism: I don't believe anyone can know for sure whether or not there is a God.

Note that you can be an agnostic in combination of any theological outlook; agnosticism is a philosophical concept. So you can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic Christian, and so on.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

I would say KibizOr says some words of wisdom there. Weak atheism sounds like a good definition. Only problem is that "weak" sounds a bit negative. As if all weak atheists struggle with their faith and sooner or later they turn into strong atheists or strong believers. I guess being a weak atheist simply means not turning the issue to the most important life guiding idea.

I also think the "strong atheism" is originally an idea coined by "strong believers". A common statement is something like: "You atheists do have a God. It's the one you don't believe in!" There lies a seed of truth in that idea, I know one strong atheist and his way of thinking is something of a belief or religion. Something like if man only gets rid of all beliefs in divine entities and clears his mind from any religious thoughts, he will develop a pure sense of moral and act good.

In a way, the weak atheism is more pure atheism than the strong atheism. But who am I to say (or anyone, for that matter), I'm more of an agnostic Christian. And I think that is the only way to be Christian today, if you wan't to define the meaning of the word "know, knowledge" in scientifical terms.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

m c
Member #5,337
December 2004
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Then weak atheist -> moderate atheist / sensible atheist 8-)

(\ /)_____#_____####__#
(O.o)¯¯¯#¯¯¯¯¯#¯¯¯#¯¯#
(> <)__####__####__####
Megabytes are where I keep my Data.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

If i remember correctly, the new testament was written at about 60 AD and so obviously they didn't have enough time to forget the truth, nor could they have enough time to let their imagination exagerate it.

You sorely underestimate the ability of the human mind to warp things up that didn't happen too long ago. Remember, they mostlyhad to rely on word-of-mouth and oral communication in those days (yes, I know they had books and publishers and many in the Roman world could read).

Quote:

And the old testament was written about 336 BC, so they really knew what was going on.

Erm... it lists events from long before that time, which were handed down orally for a long time before being written down. Either way, when you get down to it, is it really the letter of the bible that matters most?

Quote:

That's strong atheism.

I never understood nor cared about that distinction.

Quote:

I will believe in God when there is sufficient evidence for me to do so.

So will I, as well as any reasonable human being, I would say.

Quote:

Strong atheism: I believe there is no God.
Weak atheism: I don't believe in God.

Apart from the grammatical construction, I see no difference in the meaning of those two sentences, and I certainly wouldn't attach meaning to the difference. My reason for stating I believe that there is no god actively is to emphasise that it's a belief. In casual day-to-day conversation, I would use the passive form.



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