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My campaign...
Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

Fashionably late, and probably repeating someone else. I enjoy Fedora Core 4 but for some issues. After updating the kernel, I have to find new video and webcam drivers (still have not found webcam) and install. If you install ALSA separately, you need to recompile after updating the kernel. If you upgrade GCC, you need to recompile the kernel to compile new drivers. Some software installation instructions are dodgy (not for noobs), or nonexistent. After the latest kernel upgrade, when I shutdown my computer, it reboots. FireFox kvetch: I have to disable or enable javascript to make some websites work. I use Windohs XP just to learn programming and develop software though. Conclusion: Linux is not for the weak.

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If we get apple juice from squeezing apples, and we get prunes from drying out plums, where does prune juice come from?
Ceterum censeo delendam esse rei.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Quote:

nVidia and ATI driver under Linux ? Those are really hell-on-earth...

Have you actually used a NV HW with Linux during last year or so? In native games they deliver exactly the same performance as they do in Windows. With ATI things are worse but that's because of their non-existent driver team.

Installing the drivers is a breeze. Mostly it takes only a few clicks in package manager. With some distros you also have to manually change a line in X conf file. It is described in the driver's readme file. Takes a minute or so at most. ATI even has a special script that can do it for you, I'm not sure about NV because I haven't felt the need to use that script

Quote:

you won't match the performance of Windows.

With Wine/Cedega I lose around 10-20% of speed in d3d games, most opengl games loose <10% performance. WoW and WC3 were supposed to run faster through Wine than natively on Windows but that might be that the d3d client for windows is not as good as the opengl one.

Quote:

And if on top of that you add emulation of the OS ... :/

You do know that wine stands for "Wine Is Not Emulator", do you? They are doing dynamic translation, not emulation.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
avatar

Quote:

Have you actually used a NV HW with Linux during last year or so? In native games they deliver exactly the same performance as they do in Windows. With ATI things are worse but that's because of their non-existent driver team.

Yup, 2 month ago, with an NV GeForce 6200 go. Driver installation was everything but a breeze... Still doesn't work, so well I'm stuck in 1024*768 instead of 1280*800.

I didn't know Wine in detail, but emulation or translation, you still loose performance right ? Next-gen games really makes my computer goes on it's knees, I couldn't afford to loose a bit :/ (and buying HW is not a solution if the point is to prevent from paying WinXP wich is rather low-cost compared to (from AGP to PCI-Express) new MB, new CPU, new DRAM II, new GFX card... :/

___________________________________

piccolo: "soon all new 2d alegro games will be better. after i finsh my MMRPG. my game will serve as a code reference. so you can understand and grab code from."
piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

Yup, 2 month ago, with an NV GeForce 6200 go. Driver installation was everything but a breeze... Still doesn't work, so well I'm stuck in 1024*768 instead of 1280*800.

Might be a stupid question but did you ask for advice from someone?

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
avatar

yup ;)

even Knoppix can't help me :]

___________________________________

piccolo: "soon all new 2d alegro games will be better. after i finsh my MMRPG. my game will serve as a code reference. so you can understand and grab code from."
piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Try kororaa XGL livecd
If that doesn't work either you have some weird machine.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
avatar

Quote:

Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 12:33
The Kororaa Xgl Live CD has been taken offline due to GPL violation by distributing the ATI and nVidia drivers with the Linux kernel.

___________________________________

piccolo: "soon all new 2d alegro games will be better. after i finsh my MMRPG. my game will serve as a code reference. so you can understand and grab code from."
piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Now that is what happens when zealots start acting. By their logic, the closed-source drivers have been violating the GPL from day one, even when installed separately.

The original torrent is availiable here, though: http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=1806&name=kororaa-xgl-livecd-0.2.iso.torrent

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Epsi
Member #5,731
April 2005
avatar

thanks for the link, even if I think my VAIO laptop is a linux hater ^^ (yeah because WiFi is also another story...)

___________________________________

piccolo: "soon all new 2d alegro games will be better. after i finsh my MMRPG. my game will serve as a code reference. so you can understand and grab code from."
piccolo: "just wait until my invetion comes out its going to take the wii to the next leave of game play. it will run sony and microsoft out of busness if i dont let them use it aswell."

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
avatar

Quote:

Maybe the fusion of AMD and ATI will give birth to open-sources driver

Closed mind + Closed mind = Closed mind

After discovering why my games weren't running, I now are able to play good games (that is, those made for Windows 9x, like Starcraft, Heroes of Might and Magic III, Counter-Strike, etc). Since I do not care about 5gb games, I am pretty happy with my box. In any case, if I really want to play, I have a SNES with around 30 games (including 15 or so RPGs), and a Nintendo DS.

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

Quote:

thanks for the link, even if I think my VAIO laptop is a linux hater ^^ (yeah because WiFi is also another story...)

I know that Kubuntu 6.06 Dapper comes with some tools called VAIO something. If you want to try Linux on your VAIO give the Kubuntu Live CD a go (and then install from it).

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Quote:

You do know that wine stands for "Wine Is Not Emulator", do you? They are doing dynamic translation, not emulation.

They're doing emulation all right. They're just trying to avoid the political and memetic baggage that comes with the word "emulation"... ::)

Quote:

A software emulator allows computer programs to run on a platform (computer architecture and/or operating system) other than the one for which they were originally written.

Quote:

emulation
Refers to the ability of a program or device to imitate another program or device.

Quote:

emulating
to imitate (a particular computer system) by using a software system, often including a microprogram or another computer that enables it to do the same work, run the same programs, etc., as the first.

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
avatar

I'll agree Wine is technically an emulator (as it emulates a Windows environment on Unix), but it does not emulate any hardware. The byte code in the EXE is run directly on the system, just as it would on Windows. The only performance loss is caused by unoptimized code, as Wine is trying to get compatibility up before doing much optimization (and even still, some programs may already see a performance benefit, as was noted before).

It is emulation, but not in the typical sense that most people think of.

Quote:

nVidia and ATI driver under Linux ? Those are really hell-on-earth

Can't say I've had a problem with nVidia, nor have most others since nVidia provides some of the best Linux support for their Geforce cards. ATi is a slightly different story, but come on. Their drivers sucked even on Windows until recently.

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Quote:

Acrobat Reader (AR) is available for Linux

Cookies to Kent Larson! My version KPDF is as bad as trying to read one of those chm help files with IE4.0

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

James Stanley
Member #7,275
May 2006
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What distro are you using? I use Kpdf all the time, and it works fine. You could try updating it if you have a package manager.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Slackware 10.2 or something. But I've already downloaded the AR now :)

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

Closed mind + Closed mind = Closed mind

AMD actually has a open mind. And with Intel's decision to release thier new drivers, there might just be a chance that AMD will push out ATIs drivers. Or at least get a few more people on the linux driver team (I think theres ONE person on it now).

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Cookies to Kent Larson!

You mean to say you honestly didn't know that Adobe Reader has a Linux version?

Quote:

My version KPDF is as bad as trying to read one of those chm help files with IE4.0

Do you have anti-aliasing enabled? Do you use true type fonts?

Trumgottist
Member #95
April 2000
avatar

The Kitty said:

... which just goes to show, you didn't read what I wrote.

Yes, I did. Then I made a decision. The wording was intentional.

--
"I always prefer to believe the best of everybody - it saves so much time." - Rudyard Kipling

Play my game: Frasse and the Peas of Kejick

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

About a few months ago I installed Suse 9.3. The installation went smoothly and all devices where discovered automatically (even USB drives). The only problem I had was setting up the monitor refresh rate and position: my monitor was not in the list, so I tried a combination of compatible modes, but unfortunately I got stack in a black screen which I got out of by randomly pressing the cursor keys and space/enter.

Then I went on to watch a DVD. I found out I had to install the drivers separately due to licencing issues. I did not know where to turn, so I opened the package installer and downloaded the DVD-related stuff. But the SUSE sites do not include the actual stuff needed, so after lots of browsing, searching, reading FAQs etc I managed to install the proper drivers. Then I watched the DVD I wanted.

Then I went on to write a program. I searched for a C++ IDE; Kdevelop was not included. I downloaded it, upgrading my system in the process. Then I opened a project, selecting the defaults in order to write a hello world. More than 50 files where created, all related to GNU and open source (readme, install, licence, etc). Then I tried to create another project with nothing default, but the created project could not run; the compiler was not set or something.

Then I gave up and went to Windows XP and MSVC++ 8.0.

I have nothing against Linux; it is a fine system, and the interface has become nice. But as I get older, I find it more and more boring to having to type things in the CLI. It is just me though, so I don't expect any sympathies. Maybe I am spoiled by Windows...

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Quote:

More than 50 files where created, all related to GNU and open source (readme, install, licence, etc).

KDevelop project is actually a simple wrapper around autotoolset. You can take the generated files and you can use the usual # ./configure && make && make install to compile and install the project on any platform with autotoolset support, no kdevelop is required. You can't say the same about msvc :)

That many files are generated because they are considered standard with autotoolset programs. Things should improve somewhat once Kdevelop gets proper CMake support.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

That's why I like Dev-Cpp: it uses a .dev file to store a project data, then ussual sources, and after that it only generates necessary files like make, .o files etc.

Which reminds me that I'll miss Dev-Cpp under Linux as well as Winamp and Miranda.

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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

I'm not sure but I think kdevelop had a possibility of using a bit lighter setup too.
Of cource you can always drop back to using your own makefiles or a simple wrapper around scons :)

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

Didn't read any posts (except the first) so I'm probably repeating.

I've just installed Fedora Core 5. I thought by now they'd get their shít together. That's not the case. Each time I install any distro of linux, no matter how user friendly it claims to be, I spend way too much time dicking around with it trying to get it to actually work properly.

Problem 1: I have a 1440x900 LCD monitor. So I selected "Generic LCD 1440x900" (or something like that) for my monitor type. So you'd think it would display 1440x900. Yeah right. I had to fųck around with xorg.conf to finally get it working.

Problem 2: No support for bluetooth it seems. Sometimes the keyboard works, sometimes the mouse works, but only when they feel like it. Fedora doesn't actively do anything for this.

Problem 3: This one really pisses me off, because it is so fųcking basic and has zero to do with hardware compatibility. I decided that I wanted to get just a basic installation of Fedora Core 5 up and running, then install other packages from the CDs post-install. In previous versions, this can be done. Not anymore. It installs them off the internet. Since my bandwidth is severely limited, this is not an option. So I've had to fųck around with yum configuration for fųcking hours upon fųcking hours, creating a local repository and whatnot. It's complaining about missing repomd.xml. Then I managed to get around that (I don't know how) so pirut decided it wanted to throw an unhandled exception. For fųck sake!

Your campaign is absolutely stupid. If you want people to use a new operating system, get them to use something that actually works, straight out of the box. Linux doesn't. It's a total piece of shít.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

I've installed FC5 once. It was probably one of the worst distros there is :P

Quote:

get them to use something that actually works, straight out of the box. Linux doesn't

My gentoo works right out of box. Of cource it takes a while to open the box :P

Also Kororaa and Ubuntu seemed to find all of my HW. Though I don't use things like IR and bluetooth.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski



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