Yes, hence the Occam's Razor comment. We can never really be certain that our theories are right (but sometimes we can be certain when they are wrong); all we can do is pick the best theories. What makes a theory good can lead to a length discussion, but often one uses Occam's Razor to make a theory 'better'.

Actually, what I said was just meant to reinforce my other points, rather than to bring neuroscience into the argument. What I'm getting at is that in the end, we only have access to the physical world. We, in the physical world, can never know what else there is. We can never know what is outside our universe. (often that's what is used as the definition of a universe!) So any theory to do with souls and heaven and any of that, is just guess work; nothing more. Because we can never know, we can never find out, we can never test it - unless God comes and tells us, or something like that.

You're right as well! We can't just rule stuff out, but we can focus on the most probable things. We can't rule out the soul stuff, just like we can't rule out the ether or any number of other things. But since we don't need it, we might as well just put the idea on the shelf until we do need it again. There are an infinite number of possible theories; we have to choose our search path for the best theory in a systematic way. Why believe in souls but not believe in casting magic spells by moving our hands in the right way. There could be magic spells, if we just say the right words, and move in the right way. We may have just not found them yet. It is possible... but we don't need it, there is no evidence for it, so we say there is no such thing.

But when you get to heaven, or hell, or whatever - aren't you meant to still be the same person, with the same values, same love for your family and friends and all that? Isn't it assumed that the soul carries all these things for you? Well if not, then who is the guy in hell, with my soul? I mean suppose I go to hell, but I don't keep my memories and values. I would say that the person is hell is not me.

I suppose we've reached the point where we are both saying that there is a whole lot of stuff that we just can't know for sure.
In my eyes, there is no reason to believe in all this soul stuff over than any other idea we can come up with; and no reason to believe in some particular God and rule system over any other. So I just stick to what we can know. I stick to science. What would happen if I put my faith in your sort of god, and when I died it turned out that there was a god, but that he actually had completely different values! That would be pretty bad - I could have spent my whole life upsetting god because I made the wrong assumption. I don't see why the bible should be trusted over any other religious text. I don't trust any of them!

I guess that's about it. I don't think there is much more we can say about this without getting into the hairy details.

If we use the big bang theory, the question is: Why was there a bang?
If we use a god, the question is: Where did god come from?

No matter how we think the universe came into existence, there has to be an axiom.

I do think as well that we are coming to a stand still in simply what we believe. And just to point, it's been fun. I like having my beliefs tested to see if I truly do have beliefs I believe in. Everybody has to have something they believe in, whether its science or religion. There are many who are shaky in the foundation of what they believe. Okay...getting to the quote...

If you put your faith in God and God exists, then he will lead you correctly and you won't make false assumptions.

If you put your faith in God and another god exists who is angered that you put all you faith in the christian God, then this god did not try to lead us in any way and we are all doomed.

If you put your faith in God and God does not exist and there is no afterlife, then lights out at death time, nuff said.

If you put your faith in God and God does not exist and there is an afterlife, then there could be multiple outcomes.

And whats to keep any body from taking any of the paths above? Again, their own personal preference and free-willed choice. I for one, chose God (while still seeking sciences bounds) because of what I've said earlier about my personal testimony. I don't want to get to sappy and say, "God has changed my life and filled the void", because that is way too easy to attack, but alas, I'm at a loss of words.

[EDIT]

Why? I still have faith and I believe in what science has taught me.

It's getting late (really late), so let me know if I misunderstood your statment. I believe in the word of God (the bible). However, it being written/translated/whatever by man, makes it prone to err, and thus, I take what I've read to God in prayer for proper understanding so that I don't confuse meanings or believe mistakes. Obvioulsy, I do have a lot of philosophical standpoints, but they are all taken into careful consideration and prayer. Of course, prayer is a christian thing to do, so that makes no grounds with avid scientists. Now...what did you mean by "when the two conflict"? What "two"? Sorry, as I said, it's getting late...

Oh boy, not this again.
Anyway, I'll say what I think and belief before commenting.

First of all, please disentangle belief and religion. Thinking that there is a god is a belief, just as think that there isn't one. Following the teachings and principles of the Bible, or any other so-called sacred text, coupled to the belief it is based on is a religion (yes, I know that distinction can be made more precisely, please do).

Now then, I think everyone should be free to belief what they want, but I also think there can be discussion on merits of different beliefs. It is my experience that many (repeat for emphasis, many, as in not all) theists feel threatened by that somehow and interpret any discussion as a personal attack.
Just as everyone is free to belief what they want, I think anyone should be able to follow any religion they want - al long as it does not bother other people who do not share the same religion.

Now then, regarding science. Let's first make one thing very clear (maybe it was clear already and I'm just beating a dead horse): science is not a belief. It is an enterprise to learn about the world around us by observation and rational deduction with a well established protocol that makes sure any conclusions can be verified and checked.
That doesn't mean observations cannot be interpreted incorerctly, in fact most progress comes from interpreting available observations in a new way. Examples of this kind include Special Relativity (the non-presence of the Aether and the universal value for the speed of light for all inertial observers), Quantum Physics (the blackbody spectrum, the photo-electric effect), Evolution (similarities of species and their ability to adapt, the fossil record).

Ok, for some reactions.

I don't think these issues have anything to do with one and other. You may belief in god all you want as far as I'm concerned, but I don't think that give you any insight in the nature of the world around us. Nor do I think not beliefing in god makes it any easier to understand the universe. In fact, I'm well aware of the things we do not know or understand about it.

I don't think one can `belief in science' in the same sense as one can `follow a religion'. One either beliefs in the world one sees or one does not. If the former, then there is no way not to belief in science. If the latter... well, anything goes. But this is philosphical point that has been debated for millenia.

Actually, quarks, leptons and gauge bosons came from the big bang and formed hydrogen, helium and traces of lithium afterwards. All higher elements come from stars.
That aside... how did these things not come from nowhere if god created them? Do you mean that they somehow already existed before he created them? If so, where did he get it from?

I bet I can name more species than us living on this clumb of silicon alone than you can count on all your fingers and toes combined.
That aside, life on Earth is simply the only life in the universe that we know about.

Yes, let's be realistic for a moment. Our gut feeling tells us that there has to be life `out there'. Based on what? We don't know how easy or difficult it is to form life because our statistics are extremely poor. We don't know how many planets there are that are capable of supporting life. We don't know on how many of those life came into existance. We don't know how much of that life has survived or even evolved beyond primordial bacteria - it took about 3.5Gyr for life to evolve from single cell organisms to multi-celled organisms and human beings.
Is it a scientific fact that there are aliens out there? No, because we haven't seen them.
Is it scientifically plausable to say that there are? No, because we don't have enough data to base that statement on.
Do I belief aliens exist out there? Yes, I do - and I'm sure most other scientists do as well.

What we call `light' consists of photons in a narrow frequency range. Photons mediate the electric force and couple to charged particles. Transitions in atoms or molecules can emit photons, but it is far from the only process.

If this god is all he's made out to be, he undoubtadly has a reason for me not beliefing in him.

One can never disprove the existence of god. All one might say is that there is no scientific basis for beliefing the conterary.
You can basically belief what you want. If god wanted to, he could have created the universe five minutes ago with all our memories and history along with it and it'd be consistent with what we observe. In fact, the universe we see is entirely consistent with being formed five minutes from now with the memory of everything before that time (including right now) being created at the same time.

I'll reiterate the point: there is no scientific basis to belief in an afterlife. Actually, it is more consistent with our current understanding that there is no such thing!
Of course it doesn't have answers to something that doesn't exist in the first place!

EDIT: And now I hope someone takes the time to actually read all that...

I had this theory that the 'soul' was real. It turned out it didn't work. My idea was similar (and somewhat based on) to that of the Mr. Sakaguchi's ideas in his games/films. Life has an energy -- animals and humans alike -- which leaves our body when we die. The energy is created during the planet's formation, so there is a fixed supply.

However, it didn't work out. I could never figure out a good place that this energy would leave to or how it is transfered to new organisms.

Anyway. Much like gods, souls and ghosts are not real.

If you join this thread then you must expect critisism for your beliefs. This is a religion discussion. If you don't like the heat get out of the flames.

In any case, my comments weren't entirely sarcastic. You did not give clear examples using real world situations. What makes calling yourself christian any different from other religions in terms of prejudice? Hindu, atheist, buddhist, or pagan all have stereotypes and prejudice attached to them. I can't think of a religion which doesn't right now. Christianity is in the majority in western countries. I think your claims are completely false. Christians do not receive "extra" critisism or prejudice in comparison to other labels, to the extent of my knowledge.

Yeah, I'd like to just leave this conversation like that. But there is just one more thing:

I disagree. Many people believe that they are being led by a non-christian god. There are many different religions in the world, many of these involve a god or gods. I don't feel that christianity is special. People in another religion may feel that if there is a christian God, he doesn't lead his people well (like you are saying about their god). In fact, that's kind of what I was saying earlier in that he would know why I don't believe in him, and he does nothing to change it. So I disagree with you saying that this other god didn't lead us and we are all doomed.

BTW. I sent a notification to the province magistrate the other day. As of today i'm officially separated from the church!

I didn't do it because of the money i save from the church tax (yes, if you're a member of a church then they tax your income too) but because of fundamental differences between my views and those of the Evangelical Luthern Church of Finland.

I must say, it feels like a heavy tether has been removed off my neck. If there exists such thing as a soul, mine would be now truly free.

I think pretty much the same.

Obviously it isn't, since some of the world's most influential countries are de facto theocracies.

Let me just say a few things, which I've discovered (still holding my previous argument).

Let's pretend there is a God. For this example, he will be named "Bill".

Now, Bill couldn't have created himself (actaully, he could, anything is possible above our understanding). He need a creator, let's pretend "Linus" is Bill's creator, now, Linus needs a creator. This might be "God". See? It goes into infinity.

Now, infinity is possible, it's just that humans don't manage to think infinity (neither nothing, but that's a different story;)). Most people think this is impossible (expecially programmers;D). But if you understand what I said earlier (that anything on "second floor" is possible) you manage to think it.

I believe that there is no God, but do not deny that it exists a God. Actually. I try to exist as a part of the universe, at the same level as rocks, stars, planets, and the like. So I observe, instead of participate in, religion. It is really difficult, so I try to believe as non-religious as I can. Or something.. It's very difficult to explain:-/