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SpeedHack - online Rule-O-Matic
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Quote:

I seriously doubt, though, that someone who is unable to come up with three rules in three weeks will be able to come up with a creative solution and program it within in three days.

That covers me then.

There are two sides to this. Placing the requirement has benefits, like ensuring large numbers of rules. It also puts people off; some of us are good at coming up with a game to fit the rules, but not good at plucking rules out of thin air. More importantly, a lot of us enjoy the challenge of coming up with a game that will get played, but don't particularly enjoy trying to come up with rules on the spot when they likely won't even get used. If you're not such a person, you'll have to take my word for it.

Work on your tone. I said nothing to warrant your slanderous or libellous or whichever comments, and nor did miran.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

No one is asking you to "come up with rules on the spot". You have three weeks to come up with three rules. Or you can easily work around the system if you so desire. Or you can wait until the "last minute" when the requirement is no longer needed or useful and sign up.

I cannot fathom how that "puts you off". No one is asking you to "pluck rules out of air." I am quite an uncreative fellow myself, and I managed over 30 rules which have the highest average of anyone. (To share the credit, some of my initial rules were based on other people's suggestions in other threads.) One of the complainers in this very thread has the highest rated artistic rule. So much for not being able to think of anything good! Had I not created a clause that forces early registrants to add three rules, they may have easily forgotten about the online Rule-O-Matic.

You, Ben, are far more creative than I. Hopefully over the next week or two, some interesting ideas will pop in your head. If so, add them to the site and join. If not, you'll be able to join anyway. Some unfair restriction that is.

I'm very open to suggestions: I created an online Speed-O-Matic and am entertaining the notion of increasing the size limit. To think that the SpeedHack is already a perfect competition is vain. I'm looking for ways to improve it. To suggest that actively encouraging people to help in the creative process makes this year's SpeedHack unworthy of being called the SpeedHack is quite ridiculous. My response was to that.

Here's another kissie to help the tone: :-*

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
avatar

Hehehe, hope it is not mine, people would really complain ;D

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Your kisses are unwelcome and antagonistic. Perhaps taking back the "cry-baby" comment or the "go jump in a creek" comment might help. I've acknowledged the other side, and you could have prompted me to do that without insulting me that viciously. Keep up the good work on the competition, but learn some manners.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

Quote:

Some of those may not have been added if the person could have just signed up without doing anything.

I am quite doubtful that statement is true. If someone has a good idea and they want to submit it, they will. It's fun to contribute.

Making it a requirement will add more poor rules than great rules.

I really don't care all that much, I submitted about 6 rules before I even knew about the requirement. It's just so stupid that I need to know why you added it. It still sounds stupid even after you explain it. ::)

Quote:

To suggest that actively encouraging people to help in the creative process makes this year's SpeedHack unworthy of being called the SpeedHack is quite ridiculous.

Forcing != Encouraging people to help in the creative process. Adding this feature was encouraging, forcing was discouraging. It was very encouraging to add stupid rules, as it was demonstrated in many of the dumb rules that have been added.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Though you can argue that people are stupid ;) Noone was forced to submit STUPID rules. That was thier choice.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

No one is being forced to add a rule!

If you want to sign up now you have to add a rule. Why? Because if you sign up now you are likely to forget about the SpeedHack until the time comes. By forcing early registrants to enter some rules, I am eliminating the possibility that they don't add rules out of neglect.

I'll admit that even I am the type of person that will do the bare requirements to meet a condition. If I can click a button to register, that's all I'll do—even if I'm fully capable of coming up with some rules. The restriction is in place to get people like myself to add a rule.

If in the end, you want to sign up the day before the competition without entering a rule, you are more than welcome. People are making a big deal out of absolutely nothing.

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Derezo said:

I am quite doubtful that statement is true. If someone has a good idea and they want to submit it, they will. It's fun to contribute.

I don't agree, some people are simply too lazy.

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Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
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Well, OK, if the requirement will eventually be lifted, my comment from earlier in this thread is withdrawn.

I enjoyed creating my rules. I really like coming up with stuff like this. But I wouldn't like Miran or BP to not participate because of such a requirement. But if it is to be lifted, that becomes a non-issue. I just hope no-one decides not to participate because of a hurt ego...

I would also like to ask a question. How am I supposed to rate rules which are duplicates of rules I saw earlier? Rate them as if I had seen them for the first time, or rate them "bad" because of the duplication?

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Rate dupes as if you'd never seen them. Dupes are eventually deleted, and I usually keep the best worded dupe.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Jakub, at first, Matthew didn't tell us he was going to lift the requirement near the start of the competition. He only told us when he was pressed. If I were new to SpeedHack, I might have found the competition, encountered the requirement, decided I couldn't be bothered to think of some rules, and never come back to find the requirement had been lifted.

I'm more concerned about Matthew's behaviour than anything else though. As it stands, if I do participate it will probably be outside the system. I can do without cry-babies who can't take any criticism.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

The reason I didn't make it obvious on the sign up page to begin with is that I didn't want everyone closing his browser and coming back in two weeks. That would defeat the purpose.

I've ran this site for over six years, and I know what it takes to get people to help out. Smiling and asking doesn't cut it. Before I added the "requirement," only three people had added rules. Within four hours of adding it, more then a dozen people had submitted rules.

Would you rather take part in a competition where the rules were created only by me or one that was created and reviewed by your peers?

If you don't know the answer, I can tell you this: I would rather host a competition where I wasn't the one that came up with the rules. Why? Because I don't want to be responsible for the complaints that are going to follow from the half-hearted drop outs.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Was I one of those three people? I had started adding rules and reviewing the other ones when you started this thread, possibly before registration was opened. I'm just wondering..

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

I didn't look to see who had, I just grabbed the count of the number of distinct user ids. Plus, a few additional people might have added rules during the hour in which I wrote the entry page.

Carrus85
Member #2,633
August 2002
avatar

Personally, I probably would use a two possibility login method. Either A) create 3 rules and rate 10 others, or B) rate 30 rules or C) wait until all of the rules have been finalized to join.

B is nice because you are not forced to create rules, but input is required. C is nice because it provides incentive to comply with rule A or B (join early, you get a say in the rules. Join like 3 hours before the compo, you don't, but at least you didn't have to create rules).

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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I've added 9 rules, and could add a few more if needed. :)

Victor Williams Stafusa da Silva
Member #4,212
January 2004
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I wanted to join the speedhack. I would to rate 10 rules, but i stoped to rate just when i got "Please stop by again!". I was thinking about three rules to enter. So i let myself into "creative mode". Tried to create 3 rules, but I could created 12. Actually two are rated as "good", two as "OK", one is "stupid" (maybe i got a very bad idea) and the others are "mediocre" or "poor" (just the best ideas are good, the other just aren't).

And i would like to know exactlly where are these categories, I saw stupid, poor, mediocre, ok, good, great and excellent. What is the rate needed to met the "excellent" (or maybe there is something beyond the "excellent"?), and there is something before "stupid"?

[The attack of the space bugs - Speedhack 2005] [Rambananas - Speedhack 2006] [Make clean - Speedhack 2009] [The source god - TINS 2010]

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

You can see your individual scores under the "My Rules" page. Each scoring label represents a block of 10, so there are ten different labels. Excellent is 80s. (There are no rules even in the 90s.) And yes, if you look hard enough, you'll find things even worse than "Stupid". ;)

Along these lines, the Rule-O-Matic rule submission has been turned off as it has now surpassed my 300 rule goal. I'll be cleaning them up over the weekend, so starting on Monday sample spins should give you a good idea of what just might show up.

The "add three rule" requirement has obviously been lifted, but the "vote" requirement has been increased to 25. On Wednesday the 10th, all restrictions will be lifted.

So if you've been waiting to register, now's your chance. There already are more people signed up this year than ever before. Hopefully everyone is up for the challenge!

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
avatar

We just know we're going to get some dodgy rules coming up don't we? :)

NyanKoneko
Member #5,617
March 2005
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The best solution would be to use your best judgement, Matthew. Run the rule-o-matic a few times until something interesting or reasonable pops up.

;D

Victor Williams Stafusa da Silva
Member #4,212
January 2004
avatar

Oh, i've got a new idea for a rule. Just to see that was too late. :'(

[The attack of the space bugs - Speedhack 2005] [Rambananas - Speedhack 2006] [Make clean - Speedhack 2009] [The source god - TINS 2010]

da_flo
Member #1,907
February 2002
avatar

Quote:

(There are no rules even in the 90s.)

One of my rules used to have a score of 95... ;) For a short time though...
And I was amused to see the label it had when I span the Rule-O-Matic. ;D

Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
avatar

Quote:

The "add three rule" requirement has obviously been lifted, but the "vote" requirement has been increased to 25. On Wednesday the 10th, all restrictions will be lifted.

Could you update the News page to show this change?

-R

Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001

I see it's too late for new rules :(

I just heard today that August 12th is the expected peak for the Perseid Meteor Shower. Are there any meteor-related rules included? There should be!

Pete

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Mine are coming down. I have six rules. The best one was 60 something, now it is 52. :P

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