Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » Team Chess

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
Team Chess
Kirr
Member #5,060
September 2004
avatar

Yes, otherwise we'll capture on f4 or move to g4, both are good for us.

--
"Go to the NW of Stonemarket Plaza to the Blue Glyph Keeper Library door and enter."
- Lunabean's Thief Deadly Shadows Walkthrough, day eight

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

I don't think there's any question that white has no better than fxg5, sad as that is.

As an aside, can someone explain what the rationale behind g5 was and why people thought it was a good idea?

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

30.) fxg5

. r . . . . k .*
p . r . . p p .
P . p . p . . .
. . P p P . P .
. . q . b . . .
. . P . . . . .
. . . Q . B . P
R . R . . . K .

{"name":"show.php","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/d\/8d499262c0d7654aa9906a9e90a8c6b1.gif","w":400,"h":430,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/d\/8d499262c0d7654aa9906a9e90a8c6b1"}show.php

Why g5 was good? I already gave my view to that on the previous page.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Why g5 was good?

You have got to be kidding.

Kirr
Member #5,060
September 2004
avatar

I don't believe white can invade on the king-side - their bishop is useless with all their pawns on dark squares. And their rooks are bound to defending their pawns. Oppositely we now have h vertical for our attack. We can move our rook c7-c8-h8-h3 for example.. For that we will have to move g6 and Kg7 first, so it's quite long plan..

Another idea is to move Rb3 first to attack pawn c3 and to bind their rook at c1. If white replies with Qd4 we will move Qe2 - we don't want to exchange queens as long as it is possible. Later we can move Rc7-c8-b8, and then Rb3-b2 and Rb8-b3, or something like that. :)

What do you think, team-mates?

Probably white will advance h pawn now, if they want to be consistent with their previous plans. :)

--
"Go to the NW of Stonemarket Plaza to the Blue Glyph Keeper Library door and enter."
- Lunabean's Thief Deadly Shadows Walkthrough, day eight

Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
avatar

Longest on-topic thread ever! I hope we'll see this thread living for a year :D.

-R

Kirr
Member #5,060
September 2004
avatar

I remember similar post in this thread about half a year ago :)

--
"Go to the NW of Stonemarket Plaza to the Blue Glyph Keeper Library door and enter."
- Lunabean's Thief Deadly Shadows Walkthrough, day eight

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
avatar

Team-mateS? Are you kidding? ;D

I'd like to open the H vertical, so i vote for g7-g6

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Kirr
Member #5,060
September 2004
avatar

I thought we also have Flad?

Anyway, I don't see any problems with g6 so let's move it. :)

30... g6

. r . . . . k .
p . r . . p . .
P . p . p . p .
. . P p P . P .
. . q . b . . .
. . P . . . . .
. . . Q . B . P
R . R . . . K . *

{"name":"show.php","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/c\/4c512abc8508553ab0c360ec728e52cb.gif","w":400,"h":430,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/c\/4c512abc8508553ab0c360ec728e52cb"}show.php

Now the king-side is blocked, which means they can't do anything, but we still can infiltrate their camp through the h line.

--
"Go to the NW of Stonemarket Plaza to the Blue Glyph Keeper Library door and enter."
- Lunabean's Thief Deadly Shadows Walkthrough, day eight

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

We could get our queen to f4 and our bishop to h4 now.
We might also try to force a queens exchange by moving our queen to d4, so that our king gets some freedom in movement.
Another idea would be to advance the h pawn to h4 to prevent a rook invasion from there(since the pawn on h4 would be protected by our bishop).

edit: I vote against queens exchange.:)

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
avatar

Back from amsterdam in time to revive the thread?

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

Ok, i vote for pawn to h4 and if nobody objects within the next 24 hours, I will move that.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Is there any point in me saying what I think about h4?

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

How should i know? If you don't say it we'll never know, so far i don't take that as a veto to h4.;)
And as long as you don't bring up a different idea, your 80%-rhethorical question is just counterconstructive.
You already had five days to think about something, so the countdown to move h4 is still running.
I want this game to get finished eventually.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Well, the entire plan of pushing pawns on the kingside was wrong to begin with, h4 being no different in that regard. The difference is that at this point, the position is so horrible that it hardly matter if you play h4 or not.

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

Well time is up, i disagree to "the position is so horrible" and since it doesn't matter for you Evert, i'm moving the pawn to h4.
Next up we might want to look into getting the queen to f4, the rook to f1 and the bishop to e1, but that will depend on which side black decides to put a rook to.

31... h2-h4

. r . . . . k . *
p . r . . p . .
P . p . p . p .
. . P p P . P .
. . q . b . . P
. . P . . . . .
. . . Q . B . .
R . R . . . K .

{"name":"show.php","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/9\/b9d57b0ca4fe241682de689025d6102d.gif","w":400,"h":430,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/9\/b9d57b0ca4fe241682de689025d6102d"}show.php

Krzysztof Kluczek
Member #4,191
January 2004
avatar

I wasn't involved in the game too much, but I have to agree with Evert - the only thing white king needs at the moment is a big "Welcome" sign. By moving kingside pawns white left king without any blockers, which blockers are now helping to defend black king - now the only white piece that has any chances to get to black king is the queen and even it can't do it because it's now key defense element now.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

i disagree to "the position is so horrible"

Read a chess book and then comment again.

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

I fail to see any black pieces that are dangerous to our king.

They don't have that many move options now. Let's check it:

option: black advances f pawn to line 6
our countermeasure: bishop to d4
(then if they pick either pawn we will repick it with bishop or queen)

option: black advances f pawn to line 5
our countermeasure: en passent kill it away with our g pawn

option: they move their queen or rook
I don't see any place in which a movement of their queen or rook could pose a threat to our king. (except "check" moves that will immediately puff away by capturing the dangerous piece)

[append]
option: they move their king to make way for a rook to get to h
our countermeasure: queen to f4, preparing for another queen move to f6 to sweat the king away

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

The position is not hopeless because of the concrete tactical threads black has, it is hopeless because of the many strategic options black has. By their very nature these cannot be pinned down to a single sequence of moves that can be calculated easily, it much more long term than that.
Black can put pressure on the kingside with rooks on the h file. Ok, so the bishop protects h4 now. Do you seriously think black cannot sacrifice a rook to open up that file after he's prepared? I think he probably can. Either way, it's something white needs to consider when he makes a move. You say Bd4 to f6 - but by moving away the bishop the h-file pawn loses its support, leaving it vulnerable. The bishop is not free to do with whatever we want.
Black can put pressure on the queenside with Rb3. Not a big problem now, you say? No, it isn't, but again, it's something that white needs to consider and keep paying attention to because there may come a point where it does become dangerous.

Every single thread white can defend against. However, there are many more threads that white needs to at least keep an eye on. Black can bide his time, increase pressure here, then switch his attack there. At some time there will come a point where white simply cannot defend all his weaknesses as well as he should and the defence will break down.

Now do you finally see what I mean when I say the position is hopeless?

If this were a real match and I were black, I would feel fairly secure that I'm going to win.

Fladimir da Gorf
Member #1,565
October 2001
avatar

I think Nf5 - Nh3 - Qg4+ (leading to a checkmate) sounds pretty good... Their response would be Qe3, but is that enough? After Nb4 I don't think so...

OpenLayer has reached a random SVN version number ;) | Online manual | Installation video!| MSVC projects now possible with cmake | Now alvailable as a Dev-C++ Devpack! (Thanks to Kotori)

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Nf5 - Nh3

That's a Bishop, not a Knight.

Fladimir da Gorf
Member #1,565
October 2001
avatar

Whoops, I always forget the names in the english notation...

Bf5 - Bh3 - Qg4+

OpenLayer has reached a random SVN version number ;) | Online manual | Installation video!| MSVC projects now possible with cmake | Now alvailable as a Dev-C++ Devpack! (Thanks to Kotori)

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

Evert said:

Now do you finally see what I mean when I say the position is hopeless?

I only see that the position is tricky and that we must pay close attention to what we move and in which order. I do see that white also has many strategic options, just think the move options I listed above a little further and it becomes visible that the positions in which we might have bishop and/or queen then will be fortunate, because they can be used to disturb blacks attack plans, as they will threaten fields that black will have to move to, if they want to have a raid on our king. Also we might get options to disturb them by putting them into check, spoiling their movement possibilities even further. And when they are in check they lose a move, which we can use to build up our attack group.
Maybe our disagreement results from the fact that you are thinking in terms of passive defense, while i think in terms of a defense by attacking and disturbing all of their possible attack patterns?
I wouldn't call the position hopeless and if I was black I would not think that I'd win the game easily. You said for yourself that we shall make them work and sweat for that point and that's what we're doing right now.

Fladimir said:

Bf5 - Bh3 - Qg4+

This plan can be countered by putting whites bishop to d4 to block off the black queen. Or by using the white queen on d4 for the same effect.
I'm not sure though, which one is better. Using the bishop would leave the h pawn undefended, but only temporarily, as it can be protected again in a follow up move by putting the queen to h2.

[append]
Other expressions I would use to describe our position would be: "challenging" and "interesting" but please don't call it hopeless or horrible again, because our team morale seems to be low enough already without that. What we need here is optimism and a strong will to survive, no matter how stupid that might sound.

Fladimir da Gorf
Member #1,565
October 2001
avatar

Quote:

Or by using the white queen on d4 for the same effect.

After which black will happily play Qe2.

OpenLayer has reached a random SVN version number ;) | Online manual | Installation video!| MSVC projects now possible with cmake | Now alvailable as a Dev-C++ Devpack! (Thanks to Kotori)



Go to: