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| More Tube blasts in London . . . |
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FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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It seems details on how thing actually went have not been released but, according to this: BBC said: The BBC's correspondent in Brazil, Tom Gibb, said Mr Menezes had lived for a time in a slum district of Sao Paulo and that could explain why he had run from the police. Graphic showing sequence of events at Stockwell Tube station It seems the officers stated clearly who they were and he run aways because it was the police. You have to admit that running away from the police in times like these is not a very smart idea. [FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites] |
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SonShadowCat
Member #1,548
September 2001
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That does not say they told him they were police. Quote: He apparently refuses to obey police instructions and after running onto a northbound Northern line train, he is shot dead != he refuses to obey orders from people who identified themselves as cops. |
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ngiacomelli
Member #5,114
October 2004
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Quote: I mean, i live in Rome and try to stay away from subway stations, i know there are risks. I certainly wouldn't go near a subway in London and even more certainly i wouldn't run away from armed policemen. So you're letting them win!
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Yeah, this is a complete god damn outrage. It doesn't matter if he ran from the police; they shot an innocent fucking man in the head five times, and they were authorized to do so! It could have been any of us. He just happened to live in the wrong part of town and wear a thick jacket. He wasn't even formally suspected of anything and had no known connection to anyone suspected for any bombings! What would you do if a guy in plain clothes draws a gun on you and makes threats to you? Especially if you've happened to grown up in a situation where that happens all the time? Hell, in your probable state of panic you'll probably not even be able to hear them announce themselves as police, if they indeed choose to do so. Most likely, especially if you're panicking (and you will panic), and especially again if you've grown up in an environment where gang executions are a likelihood and "giving up" might very well get you killed with high certainty, you'll probably run. And then the law enforcement kills you stone cold with nothing but a suspicion that you might be a bomber. It's fucking unbelieavable. It's insane. Long live Ingsoc... -- |
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Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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It's not that unbelievable. Quote: wearing a thick jacket and running from a weapon doesn't count ... plenty of people do that Besides terrorists and black market vendors, who wears thick jackets in hot weather and runs into trains without buying a ticket? It makes you a suspicious character for sure. I can't think of a 'right way' to approach this person, but snipers with tranquilizers would likely have been more appropriate. "He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe" |
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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote: who [...] runs into trains without buying a ticket? I usually do. Guess why? |
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Marcello
Member #1,860
January 2002
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Shooting a guy five times in the head while he was down on the ground, though. I mean, for crying out loud. Marcello |
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ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Quote: Besides terrorists and black market vendors, who wears thick jackets in hot weather and runs into trains without buying a ticket?
Hmm... I pay for the tickets. But since I am still a darkie gothic at heart, I do usually wear full black clothes even in summer, plus my black glasses. I love walking in the night and seeing all the people cross to the front street just to avoid me -- |
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Moving Shadow
Member #5,973
July 2005
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This is indeed a tricky one to call. On the one hand I dont like the idea of being shot because I look like a terrorist. On the other hand, I want to know that the police aren't going to hesitate in bringing down a bomber who is about to himself, me, and about 20+ other pedestrians. A serious case of six of one and half a dozen of the other. |
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gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Quote: Besides terrorists and black market vendors, who wears thick jackets in hot weather and runs into trains without buying a ticket? It makes you a suspicious character for sure.
But should dressing funny carry a death sentence? Because that's just what it means if you give policemen a carte blanche license to kill. The logic is... interesting. "Terrorists might kill innocent people! Therefore, we should kill innocent people!" And they think it's the terrorist attacks that are scaring tourists away... -- |
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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As the police, if you are shooting someone only based on appearance and not off of any intelligence, then you deserve to be tried for murder. Cops in USA are tried (maybe not for murder, I dunno—but they can go to jail). There are a lot of people who look like terrorists. If you kill all of them, then you've done much more damage than a real terrorist ever would have. |
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ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Here. It is said the brazilian had an expired visa, that is why he supposedly ran away. Previous reports, besides saying the police was civil disguised, also say that two policemen were able to stop him, throw him to the floor, and that a third came and shot him five times in the head. That is murdering, plain and simple. -- |
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FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Quote: Previous reports, besides saying the police was civil disguised, also say that two policemen were able to stop him, throw him to the floor, and that a third came and shot him five times in the head. That is murdering, plain and simple. If things went like that, yes. [FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites] |
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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Quote: On Friday morning, Mr Menezes had left his flat in Tulse Hill and boarded a bus towards Stockwell Tube station to go to work. He had been followed by police, who had his block of flats under surveillance in the hunt for the group behind Thursday's attempted bombings. When he was challenged by police in the Tube station, he fled, reportedly leaping the ticket barrier. Over the past year there have been an increased number of immigration checks at Tube stations - a policy widely reported in Brazilian papers in London. Police chased him on to a Tube train where he was shot dead.
Reasons the police thought he was a terrorist: I'm not saying the police were right, I think they made serious mistakes, but they had reasons to believe this was a terrorist trying to blow up the train. |
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Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
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Quote: Besides terrorists and black market vendors, who wears thick jackets in hot weather and runs into trains without buying a ticket? If he lived in Brazil most of his life, chances are he's used to much warmer weather than us Canucks and Brits. Wearing a jacket in summer isn't that far fetched. Also, as far as I know, boarding a train without a ticket isn't a crime worthy of public execution in most countries (China is probably excluded). At worst, it's tresspassing (only if it's private transit system) or petty thievery. Neither merit the death penalty, regardless of the "in these post-9/11 times" excuses. -- |
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Marcello
Member #1,860
January 2002
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Quote: He came out of flats being watched due to a terrorist link. Eh? What was his connection? Dark skin? I think I missed something here. Marcello |
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Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Marcello: The building he was leaving from was under watch. RP's last post summed it up quite nicely. An illegal immigrant leaves a building under watch for terrorist activities in a heavy coat in the middle of summer and runs into a train station and dashes away from police into a populated train. I don't know why everyone is so shocked that he was killed. It was a mistake, and a tragic one at that, but it wasn't shocking. Quote: as far as I know, boarding a train without a ticket isn't a crime worthy of public execution No, it's not.. but, umm.. what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Vaulting over barriers, as quoted somewhere in this thread, while coming from a building linked to terrorism and running from police in a heavy jacket capable of holding massive amount of explosives is definitely extremely suspicious behaviour. "He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe" |
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SonShadowCat
Member #1,548
September 2001
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It is shocking, they could have stopped him as soon as he left his home. Instead they opted to WAIT till he got to the train and THEN pull their guns on him without( article doesnt say) saying they were cops causing him to run like ANY person would. Quote: They thought he was a terrorist. And like I said, they should have stopped him as soon as he left the building instead of waiting to find an excuse to kill him. |
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Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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That doesn't make the killing a shock. It is shocking that the police would make a mistake like that, yes, but under the circumstances that actually occured the outcome is not shocking at all. Quote: they should have stopped him as soon as he left the building instead of waiting to find an excuse to kill him They probably should have, you could be right. "He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe" |
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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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They didn't 'find an excuse to kill him'. What is with this paranoia? They followed him from his flat and when he went into the station they challenged him. At which point he run through the station, vaulted a ticket barrier and ran onto a train. People seem to want to believe they killed 'somebody' as revenge. |
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Quote: what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? The fact that the only crime the police had anything resembling proof of was jumping the barrier. They had no evidence whatsoever that he was carrying a bomb (and no surprise, since he wasn't). -- |
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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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And what does that have to do with anything? They had no proof about the original 4 bombers or the new failed bombers either. |
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Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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Quote: They had no proof about the original 4 bombers or the new failed bombers either. How would you like being accused of things that nobody had any proof of? I wouldn't like it at all. -- |
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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That has nothing to do with anything, but the fact is that the police brutally murdered a man based on the following "evidence":
Now, we see that the only crime they could prove he committed was jumping a ticket barrier. That's the only crime they had a shot in the dark of proving he ever committed, and the only thing they even had any kind of evidence he had done. And they killed him. They shot him five times, having only evidence for something that's hardly even a misdemeanor. The rest was nothing but unfounded suspicions. Don't you think that, when the lives of innocents are at stake, they should get some more evidence before they kill suspects? Imagine what it would be like to be accused of being a terrorist and shot on the spot when the only crime you had committed is jumping a ticket barrier. Is that justice? Is that proper policework? The man wasn't even violent! It seem pretty clear to me: It's nothing short of brutal, cold-blooded, government endorsed murder of innocent people. Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? -- |
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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Actually no. The day after a terrorist attack when he was challenged by police he shouldn't have ran. I think the police made a very difficult decision in extreemly stressful circumstances. Mistakes like this have always happened and always will happen. You can't always wait for 'enough proof' when dealing with terrorists and suicide bombers. Off to work now, so bye! |
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