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Thread locks too soon, fork 2
Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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The Thread locks too soon thread is getting to big to post to. So I wrote my reply here. Too many topics in the other thread anyway.

Neil Roy said:

Wow, you really want to argue don't you. Believe what you wish,

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED ABOUT IT. And every time I reply, you insult and belittle me.

Neil Roy said:

I'll believe what my Bible says.

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You don't even know what your Bible says, and for that I pity you. Reading it over and over and never understanding what it says. That must be pretty frustrating. I truly pity you.

Neil Roy said:

As for your real name, well, you did want me to tell the truth did you not? But I changed my mind and edited it out. Blame the maintainer of this site for keeping edits visible. I don't know why you want to hide your real name anyhow and I never promised to keep it secret. You felt the need to tell me for some odd reason.

I told you because I thought you were trust worthy. I was wrong. And I told you exactly why I didn't use my real name. But you would know that if your reading comprehension was any higher than a 3rd grader.

Neil Roy said:

Just like you now feel the need to argue... and I refuse to engage you in a pointless, never ending debate on the Bible. And I won't go there yet again.

All you do is evade everything I say. Again, you are the one who asked about it. If you didn't want to know, then DON"T FUCKING ASK!

Neil Roy said:

Some people in here do not believe at all, and I respect that. They have learned all they need to from me from past debates, and they didn't do anyone any good except hard feelings.

You're pretty full of yourself, aren't you? If people don't want to believe, that's their choice. I'm not trying to push anything on anyone. But when you ask a direct question and I answer it and then all you do is insult and belittle me I get just a little bit PISSED OFF.

Neil Roy said:

If you want to believe some online preacher, go for it!

Pastor Murray knows more about the Bible than this entire forum's membership put together. And these so called 'attacks' on you were all preempted and deliberately provoked by YOU. You're the one who keeps insulting me and expecting me to just sit down and take it quietly. WELL I WON'T. Pastor Murray has a successful world wide ministry shown on the air around the world. Youtube videos posted by his students of his lectures are just the easiest way to view them. He teaches the Bible chapter by chapter verse by verse the way it should be. He makes no apologies for what he teaches, and neither do I. It's sad that he's no longer here with us, but his son Dennis carries on his ministry. But you're so smart, you can't learn anything new. Because you know it all already. So congratulations on that. I hope your so called biblical knowledge is enough to save you on Judgement Day.

Neil Roy said:

Leave me out of it. I am sure you can find someone to fight with on this, just not me, though here I am, taking bullsh!t from you and I have been trying to avoid debating! You have been in some sort of strange mood all this year and I am close to either totally ignoring everything from you from now on or leaving these forums permanently, which is more likely. I see no need to come here and put up with attacks from you constantly when I would rather just talk programming, joke around and get along.

That's pretty funny Neil, considering you're the one who keeps attacking me, claiming I have no knowledge, that I'm a Sunday Christian, that I'm a Roman Catholic conspirer, that I'm the one attacking you when all I'm doing is defending myself. I don't shy away from fights. Not with you, or anyone. So next time you're going to open your mouth and attack me, be prepared for a shit storm, because I WON"T FUCKING TAKE IT. >:(

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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You seem so angry and upset. I wasn't going to reply at all, but I am concerned with how much anger you have built up lately. If I debate the Bible, you get angry, if I do not, you get angry. If I give someone my own programming advice, you get angry and take everything as some sort of personal attack. I just don't get it, but I will pray for you and hope God opens your mind and calms your spirit down. There's nothing else I can say.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Was it really worth splitting religious arguments into a separate thread?

Niunio
Member #1,975
March 2002
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raynebc said:

Was it really worth splitting religious arguments into a separate thread?

I think it is. Mixing religion with other stuff isn't a good idea in most cases.

-----------------
Current projects: Allegro.pas | MinGRo

DanielH
Member #934
January 2001
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I can't believe you have been carrying on this argument about whose "interpretation" is better.

Neil said he didn't want to talk about it, but you keep bringing it up. And your offended he doesn't want to debate it. Yes, he is evading everything you say. For a reason.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT!

Personally, I have little belief in your bible. There is no god, so it cannot be his word. It is a fantasy story some old people wrote to explain certain things they didn't understand and to control the lives of other people.

I respect that religions have brought many people together with promises of peace, love, happiness. But, I shake my head at the hate they also bring. And, right now I'm sensing a lot of hate.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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It's not an "interpretation". It's what the Bible says, exactly as written.

He's the one who asked about it. When I answered his question he insulted me and claimed I was wrong without giving any proof whatsoever. I put forth a complete biblical proof as given by my Pastor, and he still refused to even acknowledge it. Again, HE'S THE ONE WHO ASKED ABOUT IT. If he didn't want to know why Adam and Eve were ashamed in the Garden of Eden, he damn well shouldn't ask about it. And to sit there and reply to me with insults only serves to antagonize me. I don't appreciate it.

DanielH, I don't really care if you don't believe in God. Have a nice trip to hell with the rest of Satan's followers.

If you're sensing hate, it's because I'm tired of him spouting lies and false teaching. The dead are not in their graves, that's preposterous. Flesh dies and returns to the dust it was made from. To think that people are out there living in the ground is just grade A premium bullshit.

The reason he doesn't want to discuss anything is because I have proven him wrong time and time again. So either he can keep his false teaching to himself, or he can deal with me, because I don't tolerate liars and false teachers.

As for you, if you don't know anything about the Bible, then please do us all a favor and keep your mouth shut when it comes to discussing it.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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DanielH said:

And, right now I'm sensing a lot of hate.

Just for the record, I do not hate Edgar or anyone else. Just to clarify. I am concerned with his high level of anger though and have prayed for him.

He's the one who asked about it.

I'll say this one time and that is all I will say. I did not ask you about anything. I was having a conversation with someone else (Polybios) about the museum story where they were concerned about old nude Victorian paintings. So I stated my opinion that I see nothing wrong with nudity and that even God did not have a problem with Adam and Eve being nude at creation. This whole thing with you started as a result of me saying, as an idle comment, not as a question to you or anyone else, where I wondered out loud why Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nudity. That was when you stated your opinion and got angry at me because I refused to enter into a debate with you about it. And I still refuse to debate you about it. I don't totally understand why Adam and Eve felt that way, but I do not accept your opinion as to the reason why. You have a right to an opinion and I respect that, I just don't share your view and refuse to debate it because it leads to discussion threads just... like... this.

What more can I say? I don't hate you, I just have a different opinion. But this will be my final reply on the subject. If you continue on with your hatred and rage than I will stop talking to you specifically all together as endless arguing and anger gets us nowhere, and it degrades us spiritually. Remember what Jesus said about hating, that you will be guilty of murder, so tread lightly.

Have a good one.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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I don't hate you, I hate false teaching, which you have been spreading. That my anger falls on you is natural, because it deeply bothers me when I hear so called Christians teaching lies and false information to people. Whether it's due to ignorance I don't care. I will hold you responsible for every false teaching you spread, without apology.

Neil Roy said:

Adam and Eve were totally nude and God didn't have a problem with it until THEY were ashamed. I still can't figure out why they were ashamed.

I completely explained it to you, and your response was to ignore me and pass off everything I said as untrue, as well as repeatedly insult me and my knowledge. Are you really going to sit there and say this was all my fault? After you have antagonized and insulted me, my pastor, allegro.cc, and Allegro itself? Don't you dare blame this all on me. Antagonize me, and I will respond in kind. That's all I did.

Feel free to disagree with me, but when you spread lies, you better be prepared for a fight.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Opinions are like nipples. Everybody has one.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I don't want more people in Heaven. >:( There's only going to be so many chairs.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Neil Roy said:

That is part of the reason why I absolutely cannot stand the whole Satan's seed doctrine. Setting aside the fact that scripture simply doesn't support it.

Are you blind? Or deaf? I gave you a complete biblical proof that Satan has children. Yet you still refuse to acknowledge what your own Bible says.

"Ye are of your father the devil" - how many ways are there to interpret that?

Neil Roy said:

One of the reasons it was invented was to claim that either black people or Jews are some sort of evil sons of Cain who was some sort of son of Satan. I don't know how people come up with any of it. It's just an excuse to be racist, and racism is one of those topics where I will get very angry as I absolutely cannot stand it. Anyone who judges a person based on their skin tone is a blithering idiot.

It wasn't "invented". It's written right there in the word of God, which you claim to know.

The fact that Satan has children comes directly from the Bible. You want more proof of angelic beings impregnating women? Why don't you read Genesis 6 KJV. The Sons of God (the fallen angels - nephilim) came in unto the daughters of men and created the Geber race (giants, a hybrid of angel and human). That's why God flooded the world, to destroy the Geber, because of all their ungodliness.

Neil Roy said:

And Cain along with ALL of his descendents were killed in the flood. NONE of them survived at all, only NOAH and his family survived, and they have a totally different genealogical line than Cain.

You're wrong. See below.

Neil Roy said:

Go around using God's word as an excuse to hate people based on their race will not win anyone over and it shows off your total ignorance.

Bah... I didn't want to reply to this garbage, but racism always makes my blood boil, especially when so called "Christians" use the Bible to support it. >:(

I never did that. But you seem to like to insinuate that I did or that I do.

Neil Roy said:

That also wipes out any idea that the Jews were some sort of Satan's children, and I think I know where that putrid, vile lie comes from, but it cannot withstand the fact that only Noah survived.

Jesus was speaking to the scribes and the Pharisees, and he referred to them as "the offspring of vipers". This was long after the flood. "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers". Who was the serpent? Satan. Therefore Satan has children. This is all biblical, and you have no ground to stand on.

II Corinthians Chapter 11 verse 3 states very clearly that Satan seduced Eve. It's right there in the Bible.

II Corinthians 11:3 KJV said:

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The word "beguiled" here is exapatao in the Greek. It means "Wholly seduced". Satan seduced Eve. Face the facts.

When God told Adam and Eve not to partake of the tree of knowledge, these were his exact words :

Genesis 3:1-6 KJV said:

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

In the quote in bold face, the word "touch" there is "Nâga" which is a euphemism that means to lie with a woman. It comes from the Hebrew word 5060 in Strong's concordance. So God was talking about sex. With a tree? It wasn't a tree. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is symbolic of Satan. Just like the tree of life refers to Christ. So once again, Eve had sex with Satan. If you want to know the real truth of God's word, you have to go deeper than the surface. And Eve gave the fruit to her husband as well. They both partook of it, not just Eve.

And as for your other insinuations of racism, here Pastor Murray talks about Noah and his family, and the African race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy7P7qXRyAE&feature=youtu.be&t=1599

Pastor Murray's not racist, and neither am I. Noah and his family were Adam'ic people. The word Adam means "ruddy complected" (showing blood in the face (rosy cheeks) ) and it is Hebrew word 120 derived from 119 in Strong's Concordance.

Noah and his family were Caucasian.

So where did all the other races come from? They were created on the 6th day.

According to you Neil, Noah and his family were the only ones saved during the flood. How did all the other races survive if they were all wiped out?

God said to take two of "all flesh" and the Hebrew word translated as flesh also means "body" or "person". It's Hebrew word 1320 in Strong's.

Which makes perfect sense. Take two of every kind of person aboard the Ark.

Otherwise, how do you explain why there are so many races today?

When two Caucasians have a child, the child is Caucasian. When two Africans have a child, the child is African. You don't get white babies from two black people and you don't get black babies from two white people.

The ONLY explanation is that Noah took two of every race aboard the Ark with him. Unless what you say is true, Neil, which it is not. If Noah and his family were the only people to survive the flood, then there could be at most one race, which would be the race of Adam and Eve (remember Eve was formed from the rib of Adam). Clearly, this is not true. There are blacks, caucasians, chinese, hispanics, jews, arabs, etc... Need I go on? How could they possibly be descended from only two people? That's just ridiculous. Once again, you have no leg to stand on, so keep your false teaching to yourself.

Unless you're Michael Jackson, black people don't turn white, nor do white people turn black.

Too bad you blocked my posts Neil, otherwise you might actually learn something.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The ignorance of religious people is just shameful. Seriously, read a fucking different book once in a while. There are millions of them to choose from. You might be surprised to learn that. To take one book, interpret it in non-obvious ways, and assert that it's the only true interpretation is incredibly closed-minded. I'm not sorry to say that most likely none of it is true, even the obvious stuff, let alone the wholey imagined, heavily interpreted stuff. Grow up. You're not a child. You're a man. Open your mind and think for yourself. It's just tragic how stupid you're being when I know you're capable of more. :-/

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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bamccaig said:

The ignorance of religious people is just shameful. Seriously, read a ing different book once in a while.

:P You know that's not true unless you restrict "religious" to dogmatic / orthodox / super-strict religious people. There are plenty of well read religious people, and some of the greatest scientists in history were religious.

And all religions have tons of similarities. Why? Because they represent through stories and symbolism, common human traits. The hero's journey exists in all major religions because it's universally applicable to being a human being. Religion is just a bunch of stories that illustrate "why" you should behave one way or another by showing you the consequences.

Check out Dr. Jordan Peterson's brilliant work. He's not a Christian, but he talks about Christian imagery all the time because it's so universal. For example, snakes represents evil in all religions. Why? Because originally, it was just people telling stories around campfires. And snakes were a literal threat. They sneak in, and their venom kills you without any ability to physically fight it off.

Then, came "they're like a snake." Snakes began to symbolize danger. Then, eventually the snake symbols themselves began to represent evil/danger itself.

And he's also a lone voice against the hardcore SJW-left in Canada, so you'll probably like his stuff anyway, Bam. He values facts, science, and statistics, and he talks with down-to-earth imagery and examples.

Check out his YouTube videos some time.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I probably should have qualified it as some religious people, but I was just annoyed and being short. :P I know Edgar can be a smart guy so it's frustrating to see him being so dense.

Anyway, it's true that there are plenty of smart religious people that are fair and truthful and intelligent. Our "Supreme Loser" himself was probably the first person to show me that.

Also thanks for the reference. It sounds like he does agree with me on some things and he'll confirm my biases perfectly! ;)

As for all religions being similar I think that's true in some broad sense, but I think that there are certainly more and less harmful approaches to religion, and the ones that affect us most where we live are the harmful kind. Not necessarily in a directly harmful way, but in a sort of dishonest brainwashing and making otherwise very intelligent people look the other way in order to believe what they understand to be "divine" when for any other subject matter they'd call foul.

It's certainly obvious why human beings would label snakes as "evil" historically. They can be deadly, and can be stealthy, aggressive, and unpredictable. If not for men like the late Steve Irwin (Crocodile Hunter) I would probably still think poorly of them. Instead, I get to think quite well of them (from a goddamn great distance!).

I think the whole notion that God created Satan and he just happened to turn against him and sabotage mankind if just an absolute ridiculous notion to humor. The idea is that God is all-knowing so he should have known Satan would do it. He's also supposed to be all-powerful so he certainly could have stopped Satan from doing it. In fact, much like Santa Claus (in more respects than one, but I digress), he's always watching so he could have pretty easily "popped" "down" when Satan said "ssssssssshello" and said bugger off instead.

The tales from the Bible very clearly speak of human interpretations of the human experiences of the time, not of some divine understanding of the universe. I can understand how some people might require some kind of comfort that the Bible and a religious belief can offer an imaginative and somewhat desperate person. I don't even have a problem with people believing in the ideas. They're free to do so, and I support that. But any time somebody makes grandiose assertions of proving anything related to religion I have to take a strong bullshit stance and shut their delusions down in their tracks. Anybody wanting to live in peaceful, blissful ignorance should keep their imaginary friends to themselves.

In other news, I recently revisited my childhood church because my grandmother passed away from cancer and the funeral service was held there. It brought back fond memories. They had a group photograph from when I was a small boy framed on the wall, and it was quite fun to see myself and many other faces I haven't seen in a long time. I also encountered several elders from the church that I haven't seen in close to 20 years. It was very pleasant. I still think they're quacks believing in this nonsense, but I understand why they do and I respect their decision. They're still well intentioned and kind and generous people, and I am fond of them from my childhood. Unless provoked I would not start up a debate about the topic or challenge their beliefs. Lucky for them I guess nobody provoked me. :)

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

The Sons of God (the fallen angels - nephilim)

I'm basically trolling, but since I'm technically religious nowadays - for us Lutherans the "sons of god" in Genesis refer to the descendants of Adam, nothing more or less. Definitely not angels. Just the same in the Catholic interpretation, so if you ever get to ask the pope that's what he would tell you. But I'm sure you consider all Lutherans and Catholics false Christians...

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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;D

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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Some people tell tales from a unique book. Some take a bible, and some are even better at telling tales from Starwars, StarTrek or more recently Harry Potter.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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::)

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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I also write stories. You can praise me. 8-)

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Elias said:

I'm basically trolling, but since I'm technically religious nowadays - for us Lutherans the "sons of god" in Genesis refer to the descendants of Adam, nothing more or less. Definitely not angels. Just the same in the Catholic interpretation, so if you ever get to ask the pope that's what he would tell you. But I'm sure you consider all Lutherans and Catholics false Christians...

I fully reserve the right for people to be wrong, but I will still hold them accountable when they spread false teaching. I don't really know what Lutherans teach, but as for Catholics, they are in danger of idolatry, worshiping Mary like that. You're supposed to pray to God, not his children or the angels.

After some major edits...

NiteHackr said:

;D

Since we're not supposed to reply to edits (what kind of drugs are you on anyway), I will let (most) of the subject go.

Genesis 6 KJV said:

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Look at the first two verses. Men and Sons of God are two separate subjects. That means we're not talking about men. If you look at the annotated image below, you can see it says it's talking about the angels. And the word 'giants' used there is "nephilim" in Hebrew, which means "fallen ones". Where did they fall from if not Heaven?

So once again, we have it that angels were mating with women on Earth, not in heaven, because there is no marriage in Heaven. We don't have flesh bodies in Heaven, but spiritual ones.

This image is straight from The Companion Bible, which is an annotated King James Version of the Bible. Note the red and green highlights :

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NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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You're right, I was wrong.

There. That should work. :)

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Does fork 1 also exist?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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all ends well that is well. King Piccolo

wow
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i am who you are not am i

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