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This Place Just Doesn't Die
Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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bamccaig said:

but taking it out on Allegro's developers just isn't fair

It's about as fair as the developers belittling me because I couldn't compile it for Windows... isn't it?

--
Deluxe Pacman (website now gone)
"I am not ashamed of my belief in God."

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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That is a fair point Bam. I can see it from both ends. A professional wouldn't run with a default network library (AFAIK) unless they were trying to rapidly churn out a prototype. But newbies might benefit from it.

But lets be honest... newbies don't often do network applications because they're the same problem as parallel code (which we know 99% of coders never do). Syncing two separate systems.

Neil Roy said:

It's about as fair as the developers belittling me because I couldn't compile it for Windows... isn't it?

Everyone cool down. I think one person mistook a sarcastic comment for serious, and then it's just escalating. Nobody is actually trying to trash anyone. We're just miscommunicating. Use whatever library/IDE/language you want, I'm still gonna call you a friend.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Haven't opened this thread past OP, but saw it again today. Had an thought "I bet they're arguing about something". Wasn't wrong 8-).

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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But lets be honest... newbies don't often do network applications because they're the same problem as parallel code (which we know 99% of coders never do). Syncing two separate systems.

Most newbies don't write event driven code either, at least not in C, but they're "forced" to with Allegro 5. Once they get over the hurdle of figuring out what that means, responding to events in the queue from a networking addon would be no different.

The addon could either define a simple delimited protocol so that it only ever supplied the programmer with a full "command" or "message", or else it could continue to build the message until the programmer acknowledged a certain length of data to "consume", and then flush that amount and start assembling the rest into a new message.

Or maybe define a standard structure to transmit data back and forth, with its own "Allegro networking protocol", and fill that structure with dynamic data based on how the addon is initialized.

There are plenty of things an addon could do, depending on what is useful for a beginner's game to communicate over the network. I've never actually attempted a networked game so I haven't given much thought to what the network messages would look like either, but others out there have and have.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I mean... just go do it if you want it... I'm not even trying to be a jerk here.

But the second you start, you're gonna run into the C vs C++ fight. And how it's way easier to make a proper encapsulated generic-container format.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001

SiegeLord said:

Had an thought "I bet they're arguing about something".

.. though it didn't start with a particularly controversial post, did it? I love the way the OP popped up after 6 years and promptly disappeared. See you in 2025, BC.

Neil,
If you haven't tried it, I thoroughly recommend the NuGet packages for Visual Studio. By far the easiest way to do Allegro on Windows.

Let's all be excellent to each other,
Pete

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Hey guys, let's start a new library to fight over. It should be written in C and be called orgellA

Hmmm...you know, Orgella actually sounds like a plausible project name.

Let's all be excellent to each other

Indeed.

=================================================
Paul whoknows: Why is this thread still open?
Onewing: Because it is a pthread: a thread for me to pee on.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Neil,
If you haven't tried it, I thoroughly recommend the NuGet packages for Visual Studio. By far the easiest way to do Allegro on Windows.

I don't use Visual Studio. I have it, but not a fan. I prefer MinGW with the Code::Blocks IDE. Mainly because GNU compilers have better support for newer versions of C. I compile with the 2011 version of C (the GNU version of that standard which is better). What can I say, I like C.

IF I do program something with Allegro again (which is looking doubtful at this time) than I will grab a build from here if one is available. Otherwise I will work on making the transition over to SDL2, for better or worse. I hate to do it as I have always loved Allegro but lets face it. Its days are numbered unless something changes.

--
Deluxe Pacman (website now gone)
"I am not ashamed of my belief in God."

Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
avatar

Hmmm...you know, Orgella actually sounds like a plausible project name.

"Orgella" is just "Allegro" backwards, in case you missed that. I actually do like the sound of it; it's fun to say, at least. :P

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Allegro is viewed as a niche library even though it compares fairly equal to SDL. There were several Allegro users that made great games, but most of them have abandoned Allegro a long time ago. I talked to Peitz on Twitter and he said "I dropped Allegro long time ago and switched to Flash/AS3. Then we moved over to unity like everybody else". I talked to Ultio via email and asked about Loomsoft and his current projects where he replied that he too had stopped using Allegro. Neil is looking into SDL2. I don't know if Sirocco is still using Allegro or not nor do I know if Trent is still using it. Those are the main ones that spring to mind right off hand.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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To me the library is almost irrelevant. I wrap all libraries in my own abstraction layer. So if Allegro were to go capot, I could "port" my engine to SDL within a day.

But Allegro going caput would make me really sad. Doesn't look like to many people want to work on it these days. The few that do (SiegeLord comes to mind) are still humans donating their free time.

I'm kind of stuck in a similar rut with D. D still has tons of development but most of the programming community has refused to accept it. So it's like... do I really want to invest time and effort into a ship that might sink?

If I go C++, it'll be supported till the day I die. But C++ is such a piece of crap. I mean, I'm half tempted to write games in C# because it's so much more pleasurable to write in.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
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don't know if Sirocco is still using Allegro or not nor do I know if Trent is still using it.

Last I heard, Trent was using SDL. I think his reasoning was that he wanted to use a library instead of having to also maintain one, or so I gathered from some tweets he made a while back.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I think Trent stopped getting along with the Allegro developers. I heard of a few times where he committing changes the others didn't agree with without really discussing it. That's just from random IRC chitchat so maybe it's not accurate. I know he didn't get along with me at all. I'm sure there was some politics or personal issues in there somewhere.

In any case, good for him if he's still making games. It's kind of silly for Allegro and SDL to both exist if they're so similar. It's sad to see this community die because it used to be so active and special, and hopefully we can try to hold onto some of that, but I don't think we should keep the library going just to keep it going. If it can do something better than SDL then it has a place in the world, even if relatively few use it. Even if it doesn't accomplish anything different it can exist as long as somebody wants to maintain it (well, it'll exist for as long as copies of it exist on anybody's storage media). At some point though, the developers will likely give up the ghost (figuratively speaking, I hope), and the software will bow to more successful projects. That doesn't have to break your heart. It can be bittersweet. :)

It can never erase the past 10-20 years of history for those of us that were here.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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I understand why so many think this site and the library are dead. Depot has come to a halt, news hasn't been updated in almost a year. Image of the Day hasn't been updated since April 24, 2014 and even then that was the only IotD for the entire year of 2014.

It definitely feels like the site is dying when you take into account that many of the users that made amazing games with Allegro have left. I remember having my eyes glued to the forums awaiting Sirocco's update on the next Fenix Blade playable demo, and after the second demo the updates came less and less. Didn't he say FB was basically dead with no plans to go back to it in the near future (a year or more ago now)?

I remember SOG and Owet Software. I think the most comical time was when I teamed up with Franky (can't remember his exact username) because he wanted to "mentor me in programming" and make some games. Then the first 'program' he sent me to "show" he was a good programmer was nothing more than a blue sky and cloud sprite background with a ripped Nintendo logo scrolling onto the screen, disappearing and looping with ripped music that turned out to not even be his. Also remember how Inphernic and X-G seemed to go out of their way to knock down every ambitious person that came to the site.

I remember a lot of developers being actually sad when Allegro did away with the Grabber.

I actually have a lot of good memories here and on IRC, but I agree, if the time comes where A.cc or Allegro itself has to end there is no reason to be sad about it.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

To be perfectly honest, I dabble in programming and have played with SDL2, I honestly have no solid plans to program anything with any library. I just can't get into it like I used to. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more like me.

I think people have mostly moved on with their lives and due to so many choices out there for programming and creating games, the need for something like Allegro, which was fairly unique back in the '90s when I first used it has faded. It is no longer unique. The market is flooded with options and this one, while good, just isn't promoted by anyone anymore, which is sad really.

Also, World of Warcraft ruined any chance of a programming career for me. ;D

--
Deluxe Pacman (website now gone)
"I am not ashamed of my belief in God."

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

You don't need a library or really any programming experience it appears. Look at how many games are on Steam that are nothing more than slightly modified Unity/Unreal tutorials. Then there are studio pages who made one game and then just change the assets and republished as new games.

Never played WoW, to this day I still play FFXI and thinking about getting FFXIV.

I too just dabble now. Most of my time, until recently, was on Cplusplus.com or GameDev.net answering beginner questions. I'm going through LazyFoo's tutorials, but outside of that I write my game ideas down in a tablet like always with no plan to make any of them. I've joked with my wife that I'll have her bury the tablets with me when I die.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
avatar

"Orgella" is just "Allegro" backwards, in case you missed that. I actually do like the sound of it; it's fun to say, at least. :P

Oh I didn't miss it! Looks like there are some businesses using the name already in some capacity. A quick google search reveals at least two.

Neil Roy said:

Also, World of Warcraft ruined any chance of a programming career for me.

How? I realise that you are probably joking to an extent, but I played WoW extensively through college (I'd basically stay up all night and drag myself through classes half asleep) and I have been a software developer for ~10 years since. Of course, I went to a community college that wasn't too challenging/demanding.

=================================================
Paul whoknows: Why is this thread still open?
Onewing: Because it is a pthread: a thread for me to pee on.

Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
avatar

Looks like there are some businesses using the name already in some capacity. A quick google search reveals at least two.

There are several companies using the name "Allegro", too, yet here we are. ;)

There's Allegro.pl, a Polish auction site; Allegro MicroSystems LLC, a company which produces integrated circuit boards of some sort; and Allegro Medical, a company which sells medical equipment. That's just to name a few.

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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We need to have a hack event where you can use allegro or SDL and invite the people over in the SDL community.

I suspect we're not all that different and the reunion with those that moved on will be glorious. #tearthosewallsdown

------------
Solo-Games.org | My Tech Blog: The Digital Helm

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
avatar

There's Allegro.pl, a Polish auction site; Allegro MicroSystems LLC, a company which produces integrated circuit boards of some sort; and Allegro Medical, a company which sells medical equipment. That's just to name a few.

Indeed. There was a furniture store in town here called 'Allegro Furniture' ... I also found some 'Allegro Cheese'.

{"name":"610961","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/2\/b2ac62b8bdd1153b84a312d2528bda1b.jpg","w":720,"h":960,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/2\/b2ac62b8bdd1153b84a312d2528bda1b"}610961

=================================================
Paul whoknows: Why is this thread still open?
Onewing: Because it is a pthread: a thread for me to pee on.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

This doesn't help either: http://www.allegrodev.com

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Darío B.
Member #16,705
July 2017
avatar

Well I couldn't access my old account because I lost access to the email address associated* with it but I thought I'd drop in anyway considering the significant amount of time I spent on this place... I'm glad to see all the usual faces sticking around as well!

I've actually restarted my studies back in 2014 thanks to a new software engineering career opening up (was previously stuck in electronics which I hated) and I've dabbled in professional software development for a desktop application for about 2 years now. Juggling work and studies has left me with a lot less time than before, but I hope my effort is rewarded in a couple of years.

While I may not developing 2D applications for the time being, I've seen a pretty similar problem that all libraries like Allegro have suffered from in the past years. I'm pretty dedicated to the usage of Ogre 3D because I enjoy the type of flexibility it provides, but it's hard to deny that ready-made engines like Unreal or Unity are just far more popular solutions for people who're just looking to make a game.

However, messing with Allegro 4 and 5 was a great learning experience for getting into programming that I do not feel any ready-made solution would have provided. I feel it's a necessary niche to fill for any programmers who're looking to build stuff from scratch but don't want to deal with the platform specifics. I think 4 might've filled this niche better on its time and 5's overall design was hampered by the demands of more modern rendering APIs.

I have very fond memories of this place, but I'm not surprised to see it has suffered from the same problem all small forums have. Either they've started consolidating into sort of mega forums (like NeoGAF) or dedicated communities to content rather than discussion like Reddit.

On another note: This place still has the best forum markup and emoticons. :P

EDIT: Some of you goofs are still using the xmas hat avatars I made. ;D

*: Dunno if ML's still around, but I wouldn't mind a merge or an email/password change for the other account if possible.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Darío B. said:

I'm glad to see all the usual faces sticking around as well!

Nice to see you. I was actually wondering just the other day what you were up to now.

taron 
Member #10,584
January 2009
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Around these parts, it's December all year long. That's what I choose to believe anyway.

Darío B.
Member #16,705
July 2017
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LennyLen said:

Nice to see you. I was actually wondering just the other day what you were up to now.

Thanks. Same here with you. :D



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