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Bill Nye the Science Guy has reached Uber Sentience
Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Why do you think I'm trolling?

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Oh, hello :)

Though I'm not from the US, I thought black people had a lot of power, simply because they have so much societal support from people who want to make absolutely sure they aren't at a disadvantage, and from anti-discrimination laws which - while worded in general terms - are in practice most likely to be interpreted in favour of black people.

Of course, the more time you spend actually focusing on this stuff and fighting like Autobots and Decepticons (i.e. there can be no winner), the fewer constructive activities you exercise yourself in, and the less employable you become.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

At this point I can't tell wether or not you're trolling

It has to be trolling.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Dear Black People" implies blacks have any sort of power to systematically oppress whites, which is untrue (keep in mind the context here is the United States).

As long as you hold to that form of inequality, we'll never be able to discuss this further or understand each other.

Because according to that logic, things like this cannot happen:

Black teens charged with hate crimes after live-streaming the kidnap and torture of white disabled man while shouting ‘f*** white people’

Except they did... and do. Proudly torturing an autistic boy and livestreaming it to their friends solely because of the color of his skin. There is no other word for it but "racism."

What specific black person was hurt in the past, to justify this? Because the typical liberal saying of "some blacks somewhere at some time had bad things happen to them, so blacks can't hurt whites" is a moral smoke bomb designed to obfuscate clear lines of guilt.

In my world, everyone is equal and that means being equally held accountable for the same crime. And if you can't accept that, then we can't communicate on a fundamental level.

Now, you may then say, "Why bring up this extreme example?" It's pretty clear. I've proved through an example that blacks can be racist with an example that would justify my argument to 99% of moderates. So now that we've established that, the question is then not "Can blacks be racist" but "At what point is it racism?" The search for "the line." And now, you can see the linkage between "everyone is judged by the same rules" ala "justice is blind", shows that a TV show or movie called "Dear Black People" by current "liberal" cultural rules, would be seen as racist on title alone, and therefor, so is a show titled "Dear White People."

I'm merely using the same liberal logic through the lens of equality.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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raynebc said:

It has to be trolling.

ditto.png

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Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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How is a targeted hate crime systematic oppression?

God damn you bunch have terrible reading comprehensions skills.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Maybe read the rest of my comment. I had to add the explanation because... as you've demonstrated, you'd fail to see the linkage without me spelling out every dot along the line.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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In a fictional world where blacks are supposedly systematically oppressed by the "white man" no group of thugs would have the stones to live-stream such an event, especially without hiding their identities.

==========================
<--- The ghost with the most!
---------------------------
[Website] [Youtube]

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Maybe read the rest of my comment. I had to add the explanation because... as you've demonstrated, you'd fail to see the linkage without me spelling out every dot along the line.

You edited that in after I posted. I never said blacks can't be racist. I was clearly was talking about systematic oppression.

Blacks lack the political clout to create and pass legislation to disenfranchise others. Blacks do not wield the physical presence, via private militias or government agencies, to disenfranchise another race or group.

You are comparing some racist assholes to Jim Crow laws.

You might as well compare your brain to a pea. But wait, that's fitting!

You're all idiots.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

There is no systemic racism toward black people in the USA today. Individuals may act on biased preferences, but Aaron already is dismissing individual acts of racism. Maybe he thinks that since many people among the minority groups don't elevate themselves to success it's because they were held down by an invisible hand. That's not the case, it's just an excuse. People are granted equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. Common PC mechanisms is the USA such as hiring quotas actually disadvantage white people by giving special favor to minorities, whereas I feel people should be rewarded based on merit.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Blacks Lower and middle-class people lack the political clout to create and pass legislation to disenfranchise others. Blacks Lower and middle-class people do not wield the physical presence, via private militias or government agencies, to disenfranchise another race or group.

FTFY. You see that rich people are predominantly white and conclude that white people are in power. You see that rich people are predominantly men and conclude that men are in power. You are an idiot.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Okay, I'm in.

If there is no systematic oppression of the black minority today, what is it that can explain such a ponderous social gap? Are black people dumb? Do they lack the skills necessary to fully interact with society today? Yes. Black children have the lowest scores in education today. Why is that? Are they incapable of learning? Most blacks never go on to college and get an education which would empower them to earn a real income and a living wage. I think the main problems with blacks today are 1) They have no real culture, and 2) They lack basic education.

What keeps blacks from going to school? I know for sure that as an unemployed white male over 35 you can go back to school and you can get your degree. You can change your life. It took me 6 years to get my degree but I did it. I started out at a local community college, because it was all I could afford, and government loans and grants covered my living costs and tuition. But after 3 years I got my AA degree. Along the way I had kept up a perfect GPA of 4.00, taking 3 classes at a time, and it got me into a great private college with a full tuition scholarship. The school was really expensive though, and I had to take out sizable loans from the government to pay for it. But after 2 and a 1/2 years I graduated, and I even got to go to New York City for a semester to study the Arts. Now here I am and today I got an interview with a software Q and A testing company located locally.

So, I don't get it. Minorities get the majority of financial aid and scholarships, due to affirmative action and non descrimination laws. Are blacks too lazy to go to school? I doubt that. It is likely that blacks work harder than many others, likely having to work 2 or 3 jobs to meet financial needs. But the key to life is to work smarter, not harder.

So is our educational system failing blacks? I've heard about studies of how black children learn differently than whites, favoring tactile learning over rote summary and memorization. It's common knowledge that some people are better at hands on learning than at theoretical discussion, because until they see it work for themselves, it doesn't make sense.

As for 1) earlier, I stand by this. The blacks of today have no culture. What they have is rap culture, gang culture, poverty culture. They have no role models. Bill Cosby used to be a role model for black people, but then his clout got ruined when he was accused of child molestation. Can you think of many black role models for today? I can think of Neil Degrasse Tyson and that's about it. OMG Duh - Barack Obama (but he doesn't count because we all secretly know he's white). They have role models like Tupac Shakur, Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg. What do they teach you about life? All that the generations before them have struggled so long and so hard to overcome they just throw away. The civil rights movement. The jazz era.

So are blacks being denied jobs? Yes, because they're not qualified for them. Why aren't they qualified? Because either 1) they don't value education or 2) our education system is incapable of teaching them properly. So are blacks being systematically oppressed? If you could see the percentage of black people in this community that work at McDonald's, Burger King, Hardee's, I would say yes. It's their lack of basic education that makes everything else fail for them. And it's hard to tell if it's discrimination, or simply segregation by lack of education.

That's my 2c.

Peace out.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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That's a great story, Edgar. Good for you for persevering. Just curious though: how much money do you owe right now? Not all jobs pay well, and not all professions do either. So while that story might go well for some people, it goes badly for a lot of people too (i.e., more debt than they can pay back, ensuring even with an education they're still indefinitely poor).

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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I owe approximately $55,000 in federal loans, near the limit. The entry level job I interviewed for today offers $28K to $35K per year. That would allow me to pay back my investment in approximately 3 years. Trust me, they want their money back. But the tech industry is booming these days, and it's going to stay that way. If I go on to get my Master's degree, I'm sure starting salaries would approach $50K or more annually.

Back to blacks and education and the nation, it's our nation's fault that we don't value education more than we do. Teachers are grossly underpaid for the work that they do. They are literally building our future, one student at a time. Without the youth, without education, we have no future, and that is the problem. There's such an emphasis on standardized testing these days it's ridiculous. If you don't fit the educational mold, you're denied income and standard of living. If the government would invest in more technical schools and more fully fund K-12 education, our nation would grow and prosper like never before. In Europe, a college level education is practically guaranteed. Here we teach you how to make change so you can work at McDonalds and serve the master race. :P

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I agree that the USA devalues education by design, and that is the ultimate problem. Again though, it isn't entirely that the white males are holding education back from everybody. From what I've heard, even the white males get shitty education. It's the rich making education inaccessible. The fact that they're allowing social justice warriors to take over university campuses further devalues education and cripples choices for Americans (and Canadians) (and many other Western nations).

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

raynebc said:

People are granted equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.

It's amazing how many people from ACTUAL oppressive communist (pre-fall of Soviet Union) nations come to the USA, and do just fine, and even go on to bash political correctness as fascism. But somehow, people who've lived in the USA for decades or centuries longer are somehow more disaffected just because of the melanin content of their skin. It's like some form of reverse Midichlorians.

"Anakan, I have news for you."
"What is it?"
"The report shows... you're black."
"OH GOD NO. I'll never be successful now!"

I'm sure the Irish did JUST GREAT when they came to this country because they were white. Oh wait, they were merciliously prosecuted. So much for whites sticking together. They even died on ships coined "Coffin Ships". So, if we're really "progressive" and for "equality" and against historical, systematic "discrimination", why do no liberals defend the Irish? OH YAH. CUZ DAY WHITE.

I'd be "liberal" if no matter how you cut or slice their logic it comes off completely hypocritical. So I stick to the non-hypocritical rules. Treating others as you would want to be treated. Treating everyone equally (ala Justice is Blind), where a crime is a crime no matter what label you identify with.

I mean it's so easy to pick it all apart. Let's say blacks are disenfranchised or whatever buzzword you want. What if a black kid is adopted by white parents. He now has access to "the white world" so can he no longer claim victim status? Or, a black person molests a white child. Are we just supposed to let that person go because OTHER whites have hurt blacks at some point? In what way could you possibly justify a child being molested? The whole victim hierarchy breaks down under it's own absurdity. And liberals know that, so instead of debating, they've decided to make "debating" itself (and revealing their hypocrisy) a new kind of "racism." Merely questioning someone is conveniently "bigotry" so nobody will ever see that behind the veil... is nothing at all.

As a rule: I don't trust anyone who says, "Don't ask questions." Even more so if they say, "There's something wrong with you, if you do." That's how you run a cult, and we might as well be talking about 90's hell-and-brimstone Christians saying "You shalt not question the Lord's will--which conveniently lines up with my neo-conservative idealogy."

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

It's actually incredibly amusing when women claim to be oppressed. If you look at the political spectrum Feminism is considerably more powerful than black activists are. Despite the fact that historically, women have been far better off than black people (particularly, in America, but probably in the West in general), and indeed took part in slave ownership. A white woman was infinitely more powerful and respected during the slave trade. For them to claim "oppression" now is sickening considering they don't even comprehend what it means (as a man born in 1986, with white skin color, neither do I). The vast majority of vocal Feminists in the West were born after me... What the fuck do they know about oppression as privileged women??? Most of them white too since Feminism isn't really overly concerned with black women. The whole social justice phenomenon takes on a totally different face when you open your mind to ideas. Winning an argument feels good in the moment, but is ultimately meaningless. You can win an argument and be wrong. You can lose an argument and be right. If winning matters more than being right then you're missing the point. Unfortunately, it seems that most college and university campuses are missing the point these days. That in itself spells doom for our children and grandchildren. What do they have to look forward to if during a questionable period in the stability of our world we're raising people to be ignorant, professional victims? Who is going to take care of them when the generations before them are gone? Who will listen to their cries? I cannot shake my head harder. I'm already dizzy. And I'm not even Dizzy. I'm not sure where he is. Probably high.

Append:

I'm not sure when this was filmed or if it's related at all to the show, but perhaps there's still hope:

video

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