Bill Nye the Science Guy has reached Uber Sentience
Chris Katko

All this time I've been respecting Bill Nye as a role model. I didn't realize he's reached the next level of sentience. Sentience that thinks this is acceptable and interesting:

video

Gender is a social construct. I'm 100% convinced now. I've seen the error of my OH OH OH ways.

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Fun fact: George Soros bought 33 million in Netflix stock this year, a media that also included the new show "Dear White People". Coincidence?

Hey also started buying Alphabet (ala Google). Interesting how they're rolling out "fact checkers" on news now.

He was also involved in Disney/Marvel. Which is also pumping out SJW manta into their comics. Co-oh-oh-oh-incidence?

Looks like they know that TV isn't the brainwashing tool it once was, so they've moved to follow the new mediums. Like YouTube and Netflix.

Eric Johnson

Gross.

Chris Katko

OH MY GOD. IT GETS WORSE. HOW COULD IT GET WORSE?

http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/04/25/scarred-for-life-bill-nye-sexualizes-ice-cream-with-bonus-swipe-at-christians/

Bill Nye's show features an ICE CREAM SEX ORGY. Where a bunch of "bi" multicolored ice cream flavors basically peer-pressure a white "vanilla" ice cream into becoming a big pile of ice cream orgy sex.

WHAT.... WHAT?!??!?! Skip to 2:30 minutes in and weep for humanity.

video

[edit]

Or the full video:

video

bamccaig

I have fully accepted homosexuality and bisexuality as things. I think the only thing that I struggle to accept is transsexuals. And I don't mean if I see one I stone them. I just mean, I'm not sure it's healthy or real, and I really question the politics to allow individuals to decide their own facilities when facilities are shared. It's not about how you "feel". It's about how your parts fit. Your mental health is a separate problem. That's where I draw the line, for now.

As for Bill Nye, let's not pretend he's some millionaire free to just sit at home slurping scotch. I imagine his finances are a present concern and he's happy to take any job they'll give him, particularly if there's an ounce of science involved.

I think that the general message is meant to be positive. I challenge people's rights to access facilities labeled for the opposite biological sex because it's public or shared, but what goes on behind closed doors is their own business.

Of course, I also disagree with the notion that men and women are "equal" based on the premise that in modern day society we don't actually consider them equal in any way shape or form. When it comes to matters of sex or gender I think what matters most is the truth, whatever that happens to be, and there's no room for politics. The only thing that matters is science i.e,. truth/knowledge.

Eric Johnson

In this day and age, you can "identify" as anything; a man can "identify" as being a woman, a white woman can "identify" as being black, and Bill Nye can "identify" as being a scientist.

raynebc

I like Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, but in general it's entertaining and while it's occasionally crass, it's not over the top SJW.

bamccaig

When and if we truly do get to identify as we please the most awesome seems to be "attack helicopter" so far. If it comes to it that's what I'm going to be.

Chris Katko

Did anyone watch the whole thing? She's actually out of breathe and has trouble kicking during her dance.

I mean... this is like... a highschool presentation "rap" about abstinence in the 90's. Except instead of pleasing Jesus, now we're pleasing George Soros. (#HisWillBeDone)

[edit]

Don't Copy That Floppy has higher production values. And the guy... doesn't run out of breathe through the song.

video

Neil Roy

video

Eric Johnson

@Neil: *triggered* >:(

Edit:

Have any of you seen "#HeartProgress" on Twitter? It's a jumbled mess, but apparently it's tied to pedophilia. Some people using the hashtag want to lower the age of sexual consent, while others want to normalize pedophilia and be grafted into LGBTQ etc.

Sexuality is a spectrum, apparently, but people on Twitting talking about LGBTQ etc say that pedophilia is not on that spectrum. I guess it's like with free speech--only the speech that they like is permitted, and the rest is a "micro aggression".

I'm not condoning, encouraging, or endorsing pedophilia, so don't get any bad ideas. I just find it interesting how crazy these things are. Men are women, women are men, whites are black, blacks are white, sexual perversions are "normal". What a screwed up time this is.

Double edit:

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bamccaig

:D

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

When and if we truly do get to identify as we please the most awesome seems to be "attack helicopter" so far. If it comes to it that's what I'm going to be.

Be careful what you wish for...

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bamccaig

Whoa, whoa, being an attack helicopter does not automatically make you the property of the US government.

But still that's a funny image. :) To nitpick, I've never heard anybody claim to be an "Apache".

Chris Katko

I identify as a Patriot Missile. ;D

Bruce Perry

I do love a good cringe video. I think that dislike ratio sets a new record :)

LennyLen

I saw this earlier today and figured it was made up. Then I checked the facts, and it's actually true.

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Felix-The-Ghost

Eric Johnson beat me to it: Pedophiles want to take political action to "prove" they can't help themselves because they were "born that way" and legalize/normalize the behavior. At this rate I really wouldn't be surprised with necrophiliacs and animal "lovers" hopping on the train as well.

Neil Roy

I could never stand Bill Nye. He's an atheistic priest of evolutionism.

Felix-The-Ghost

I have fond memories of his old show, perhaps more specifically the theme song.

Elverion
bamccaig said:

I think the only thing that I struggle to accept is transsexuals. And I don't mean if I see one I stone them. I just mean, I'm not sure it's healthy or real, and I really question the politics to allow individuals to decide their own facilities when facilities are shared.

That's not different than denying anything else that's pretty well scientifically accepted. Essentially all prominent organizations across the world that deal with the medical treatment and scientific study of transgender people agree that absolutely it is real and there's no way to deal with it other than to let that person be themselves and transition as they see fit, whether that be medically with hormones or socially in their presentation.

I've personally spoken with Dr. Graham Peveller quite extensively about the physiological, medical, and science behind being being transgender, among other topics. This is a man with about 40 years of experience treating trans patients and has more degrees than I care to count. Hell, this man helped to develop the WPATH's SOC for trans people. In short, he knows his stuff. The most interesting thing he had told me about was what he believed to possibly be the (or at least a) reason that transgender people come about. Early in the development of a human, the brain and body of the fetus is essentially the same regardless of sex, and a few weeks in is when the mother's body is supposed to react to the sex of the baby and provide proper hormone levels for development. That is, by default the baby is subjected to higher estrogen, and should the mother's body see her baby as male, it should instead ramp up testosterone levels. Sometimes things get mixed up and mistakes are made at the critical time in the baby's life when the brain develops. As it turns out, there's physical differences between genders, and this has been observed in transgender people; a trans woman has a brain that more closely fits a female brain, and trans man has a brain that more closely fits the male brain. Tests done on lab rats, focused on modifying the sex hormones during early development, have shown this to be a very real possibility, but you know science never claims anything as fact.

I had also spoke with Dr. Carol Clark just last year. She focuses more on sexual wellness, dealing with rape victims and that sort of thing, but also has an interest in transgender people. Again, everything I had learned from her suggests that it is very real, very normal, and unable to be controlled in the same way that any of your other personality traits cannot. It is her opinion that transgender people are not mentally unhealthy (which, by the way, no accredited mental health organization assumes that transgender people are mentally unhealthy) unless it is due to anxiety or depression brought on by how they are treated by people around them (gee, it's almost like constantly being harassed, bullied, assaulted, and treated like garbage aren't good for you or something).

I'm getting way too wordy on this so I'm going to speed this up. Dr. Anne Vitale is very much interested in the science behind these things. She has again stated that trans people are not mentally unhealthy outside of anxiety or depression from being mistreated. Additionally, I learned from her that trans people do typically begin to feel the onset of anxiety around their gender at about the time of puberty when their body is beginning to be subjected to the wrong hormone. Some have claimed in the past that you can "straighten out" a trans women by subjecting her to higher doses of testosterone, or a trans man by providing him with anti-androgens and/or increased estrogen. There was absolutely no basis for those claims, according to Vitale, and a trans person does not suffer from having too little of the hormone their body is producing, but rather that their brain is receiving the wrong hormone entirely. On the topic of genital reconstructive surgery, many people claim that trans people will absolutely regret it. Again, according to Dr. Vitale, that is entirely false and studies have shown that in fact generally less than 1% of people that undergo such surgery regret it for any reason. I had also had a chance to speak (if only briefly) with Dr. Christine McGinn on the specifics of these types of surgeries but that's not really on-topic here.

An ex-girlfriend of mine was a published author and professor at NIU where she had taught gender (and more specifically, transgender) studies among other things. I had read her work and listened to her life stories and I can tell you she absolutely was no different from any other girl outside of the fact that she was raised as a boy.

I could keep going on all day but I honestly doubt many will bother reading all of what I've provided so far, let alone more. Still, if you're interested, why not check out some work from professionals in the field? Seems there's a pretty good consensus, and denying that is no better than denying climate change.

So, on the topic of bathroom choice. Why does it bother you? There's little to no cases of a trans person ever sexually assaulting, "peeping", or anything else out of the ordinary. Ever. While the GOP in this country made such a big deal out of that narrative, they could not site even ONE case of it happening ever. Yet, about 70% transgender people experience harassment and assault quite regularly. Within the last few years, the murder rates of trans women has been skyrocketing; go ahead and check the FBI's statistics on that. I mean, if you can read things like this and think that's acceptable, you're a monster. Transgender people are not the problem here. They are the victim. Forcing trans people to out themselves and place themselves into a vulnerable place is only going to make things worse.

torhu

I don't think most people doubt that transsexuality is a real condition. It's the ridiculous claims of the more "postmodern" gender activists that most people have an issue with. I really wish they would go away. To me they seem just as "religious" as the Christian conservatives wanting to "pray the gay away". You can't choose your own gender, it's chosen for you by biology. Through a process that sometimes fails, unfortunately. Perhaps it is helpful to view it as analogous with sexual orientation.

By the way, I'll bet that the gender activists would protest it if they start testing a cure for body dysphoria that doesn't involve a sex change :-/

Eric Johnson
torhu said:

By the way, I'll bet that the gender activists would protest it if they start testing a cure for body dysphoria that doesn't involve a sex change :-/

I've thought the same thing regarding homosexuality. If a "cure" was being developed or tested, all hell would likely break loose. The movie "X-Men: The Last Stand" follows a similar premise: a cure is found for mutants, which causes some mutants to rejoice, whilst others become pissed off and start stirring up chaos.

But that's true for a lot of science these days. Much of science is bought and paid for to suit particular agendas. If someone goes against the grain, they may be ostracized. But that's another topic entirely, I suppose.

Aaron Bolyard

This thread has so many tropes! A George Soros conspiracy! Mistakenly thinking gender and sex are exact synonyms! Disregarding science as biased and politicalized because it presents facts contrary to your views! Discrediting transsexuality! Comparing LGBT+ to pedophilia! Anti-evolutionary criticisms! Curing homosexuality!

This thread probably wins every "right-wing talking point" Bingo card permutation!

Eric Johnson

At least we can all agree that autism causes vaccines, right?

Edit

Here's a clip from an old Bill Nye episode:

Quote:

See, inside each of our cells are these things called "chromosomes". And they control whether we become a boy or a girl.

*Triggered (again)* :o

https://youtu.be/uLd3O0O0k-8?t=490

Chris Katko

It's almost like the majority of the world doesn't actually believe what comes down from the liberal elites. ;D

Aaron Bolyard

I think you confuse "uneducated Americans" with "the majority of the world". You also mistakenly believe "the liberal elites" somehow control reality, or what is true and what is not, but sadly, humans don't have power over reality to such an extent.

Felix-The-Ghost

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Chris Katko

::cough:: french elections ::cough::

Felix-The-Ghost: ;D;D;D

bamccaig
Elverion said:

[Convincing arguments]

Thank you for taking the time to write that. I read the whole thing and it is certainly thought provoking. I guess you could say I'm sitting on the fence with my legs on the "disbelief" side.

I have heard compelling arguments that a large number of post-op transsexuals have declining mental health after surgery, but it's hard to find compelling evidence in either direction. Of course, I also don't have the time or educational background to read through research papers (or the money, apparently, since for some reason scientific research is proprietary).

While I appreciate the educational background and practical expertise of the people you mentioned, I think too that if scientific research is indeed affected by political bias (and I've read from a few self identifying scientists that this is the case) then it stands to reason that studies done would be designed to support the political bias and avoid contradicting it.

One guy that comes to mind describing the bias involved in getting grant money for research is Thunderfoot on YouTube, who could be described as a critic of Feminism and Creationism and other pseudoscience junk, among other things (including scientist, if you ask me). Oh, look, there's a short Wikipedia article on him now. I'm not sure if I could find reference to him saying that on the spot if I tried. Though I'm reasonably confident that I've heard him say it, though I'm not sure in his general field of study of chemistry the bias would necessary relate to sex in any way.

According to his channel, he allegedly had one Feminist try to get him fired (I believe he reported that she ended up getting fired instead), and had his Twitter account temporarily banned because of alleged exchanges with the professional victim club headed by Anita Sarkeesian. That said, if you watch his videos, he is actually very intellectual and professional about it (while also having his fun). He's a favorite vlogger of mine.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Christina Hoff Sommers has also mentioned this, but again I lack references (so maybe I'm just putting words in her mouth). I guess she also doesn't qualify as a scientist. Only an academic.

Elverion said:

That's not different than denying anything else that's pretty well scientifically accepted. Essentially all prominent organizations across the world that deal with the medical treatment and scientific study of transgender people agree that absolutely it is real and there's no way to deal with it other than to let that person be themselves and transition as they see fit, whether that be medically with hormones or socially in their presentation.

Science isn't really about what people agree upon. At one point scientists agreed the Earth was flat. Science is about what appropriately run experiments tell us about the world. Studying human brains is a bit more of a black box though. As far as I know, we've barely scratched the surface of really understanding it, and most of what we think we know is observational or self-reported.

Some medical or mental health professionals examined or questioned various people at various stages of their development or transition and came to some conclusions based upon that. I think it's difficult to compare that sort of science with say physics or chemistry where the experiment is controlled and you can say with certainty what the outcome will be.

Elverion said:

So, on the topic of bathroom choice. Why does it bother you? There's little to no cases of a trans person ever sexually assaulting, "peeping", or anything else out of the ordinary. Ever.

I don't think that proves anything, assuming it's correct. One could reason cases would be rare because transsexuals are a small proportion of the population, and also instances of peeping might be exceptionally rare if they are hiding their identity or uncomfortable with their bodies, etc. Logically it would seem to indicate that if one was going to peep it should be towards the gender they're attracted to, which might very well be the gender they were assigned biologically. In any case, it's a difficult subject.

It's unfortunate, but I think that most of us would be more concerned about a transwoman in the female's washroom than a transman in the male's washroom... Similarly, we would be less concerned with a female in the male's washroom than visa-versa, even though females are also guilty of committing sexual abuses in similar numbers to males.

The transgendered people aside, there's also the argument that how can we police it if you let people choose. And should a trans person qualify to choose on the spot where they want to go? How do you stop a heterosexual boy from going into the girl's washroom? Could he just claim to be transsexual and get a free pass? I think that it's not so clear cut, even assuming it's a healthy and safe option for transexuals.

Elverion said:

Yet, about 70% transgender people experience harassment and assault quite regularly. Within the last few years, the murder rates of trans women has been skyrocketing; go ahead and check the FBI's statistics on that.

I think violence is terrible regardless of who it is inflicted upon. That said, I also think that most people experience some form of harassment and assault somewhat regularly so it's somewhat of a misleading observation. I could certainly see how some minorities may experience more severe forms of harassment or assault. In that case, I think that further acceptance of differences in people is good and will hopefully help to reduce the suffering. On the other hand, I strongly oppose things like "safe spaces", censorship, and bullying of people that have differing views. That's not the answer either. People need to be allowed to arrive at acceptance on their own. They can't be bullied into it. That will probably only slow the process down.

Bruce Perry

At least we can all agree that autism causes vaccines, right?

You win the thread :)

Or Felix does for that image, I'm not sure.

So Eric, that video with the rather gorgeous girl explaining how chromosomes give rise to gender - someone has added a giggly sound effect whenever she says 'girl', and what I can't quite identify but seems to be the sound of being punched whenever she says 'boy'. I actually find that a bit triggering because I don't like the implication that boys want to fight ;D

P.S. Felix I replied to your comment ;)

Eric Johnson

So Eric, that video with the rather gorgeous girl explaining how chromosomes give rise to gender - someone has added a giggly sound effect whenever she says 'girl', and what I can't quite identify but seems to be the sound of being punched whenever she says 'boy'.

I can't quite identify the sound that plays when she says "boy". It sounded like a drum snare to me at first, but then another sound that played later sounded like a dog bark. So I'm not sure.

Also, that episode is from 1996. I'm not sure how old the girl is then, but that was 21 years ago now! :o

Elverion

bamccaig: Great post, but I don't want to come across as too preachy so I'm going to try to refrain from talking your (or anyone else's) ear off, though I certainly do appreciate the points you have raised.

If it's something that you're interested in, I can provide you a copy of Dr. Vitale's book, The Gendered Self, which covers all of these topics and more, and includes sources for her claims. Just let me know if that's something you'd like.

bamccaig

I am a slow reader so I don't really have time to read a book on the subject unfortunately. :( I have too many tech books to get through first just sitting on shelves collecting dust! Makes me jealous of my finacee. She can read a full-length novel in a day or two. It would take me months to get 1/3, and I'd put the book down and forget about it long before I finished.

Eric Johnson
bamccaig said:

I am a slow reader

Solution: audio books. 8-)

Felix-The-Ghost

P.S. Felix I replied to your comment ;)

Good thing my notification preferences keep changing without me ::)

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Also, that episode is from 1996. I'm not sure how old the girl is then, but that was 21 years ago now!

Forty years ago no one would have ever believed the LGBTSJWBBQ+ movement would yield as much political power as it does today.

Quote:

I can't quite identify the sound that plays when she says "boy". It sounded like a drum snare to me at first, but then another sound that played later sounded like a dog bark. So I'm not sure.

I didn't hear a snare drum but I did hear a dog barking for some reason when she said boy. Maybe she's a feminist and all boys are dogs >:(

bamccaig

LGBTSJWBBQ+

:D

Eric Johnson

Maybe she's a feminist and all boys are dogs >:(

Nah, she seems too chill to be a feminist.

Quote:

LGBTSJWBBQ+

Isn't that a type of sandwich served at Subway? :P

Bruce Perry

It should be :)

Except we might then all contract whatever disease they have.

Chris Katko

I used to be a man like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

Eric Johnson

As much as it is fun to poke holes in the "logic" of being able to "identify" as whatever a person wants to identify as, I feel bad for people who are dissatisfied with their biology. It must be truly terrible to hate yourself because you are a man but long to be a woman. Even after going through with sex change surgery, many are still broken and turn to suicide. That is really sad. There are so many broken people in this world who need help.

I really do see it as a mental illness. The mentally ill need help, not encouragement to continue on with their wrong ways. You would not encourage a schizophrenic person to further explore their hallucinations and to extol their mentally ill state. Likewise, I think people who are trans-gendered desperately need professional medical help, not "hurrahs" from the masses.

Chris Katko

You think I didn't go through hundreds/thousands of instances of being bullied or wishing I had a different body, for being a 5'3" tall man? :P

Don't get me wrong, I actually empathize with them too. But it's the "solution" of basically encouraging, feeding, and brain washing their insecurities that I disagree so much with.

Let me state this as clearly as possible: If I had grown up today, I would have thought for sure I was gay. Why? Because I'm "hiding" something inside me? No. Because I was a shy, beta-male that everyone assumed was gay because I fit into that stereotype. And those assumptions fed into my teenage insecurity from a lack of any clear male role models. I was being groomed for a role they expected.

If they had done that, my life would have been ruined forever. I'd never have tried so hard to get over and deal with my real problems, and I never would have gone through the hell that was learning to date, and ended up happily married and having almost completely defeated my Social Anxiety Disorder. I went from being unable to shake someone's hand without a panic attack, to being a person that other people go, "I'm not as outgoing as you. It's not as easy and natural for me as it is for you." (To which I'd just calmly nod. But inside I was thinking "If you only knew the hell I went through to get to where I am today.")

I had plenty of fucked up thoughts when I was a kid from a broken home. Now I don't. I got better. But nowadays kids are straight up surrounded by people trying to tap into and encourage your insecurities, and worse still, it's COOL TO BE TRANS/AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID. You're "brave". You're "courageous." It's no freakin' wonder why disaffected kids that are 7-years old end telling people they're trans now. They're desperately trying to "find themselves" and demonstrate their value, so now they choose "being trans" before they even have their sex organs activated. It's despicable. Liberals want to treat thet human body like it can be modified WITHOUT SIDE EFFECTS. Gender re-assignment theory is not some simple pill you take, and you wake up with different organ. (They treat anti-depressants and birth control the same way, BOTH which can have horrific side-effects including suicide.)

Nowadays they try and make you seem like a bigot for not agreeing. Like I somehow want people to suffer and I'm denying them medical treatment. But that's just a convenient dismission that liberals do so they don't have to consider logical arguments. I DO care about these people. And all of their issues, liberals don't even want to hear. They want to pretend the human body lives in a utopia where they can change it at all and we understand and can predict all side effects.

Meanwhile, trans people's suicide rates are almost identical whether or not they get re-assignment surgery. And no, it's not from "bullying". There's even evidence that bullying isn't correlated with suicide, but rather, people who are the most privileged. So these people are dying, and liberals apparently don't care enough to even talk about it.

Likewise, there are tons of girls that are "college lesbians." There are many girls that are "lesbian" until the end of college (coincidentally when their baby timer goes off) that they suddenly turn straight again. So many that they coined a term for it. You know what that sounds like to me? Societal pressure. But don't ask questions about it why it happens because then you're a bigot. Curiosity is bigotry, because it might lead one to a conclusion that isn't politically correct.

Another fun fact: Women in same-sex relationships have more than double the rate of domestic abuse. (Trans even higher.) So think about that. If you're a woman, you're more likely to be beaten by another woman, than a man. Does that sound healthy? Does that sound like being gay/trans occurs like a magical switch, completely independent of environment, mental health, and other biological influences?

And that's the thing. I'm 100% for people being gay, and trans, as well as gay marriage. Do whatever the hell you want. I've got gay family members and I couldn't care less. HOWEVER, the idea that I'm not even allowed to talk, discuss, or postulate about it? Bull. Honky. I reject that completely. I'm not going to stand by while people are committing suicide and being beaten by their partners, for the sake of someones feelings. If there's an answer, I'm going to seek it, because those people deserve a chance at happiness too.

LennyLen

I think people who are trans-gendered desperately need professional medical help, not "hurrahs" from the masses.

It's not a mental disorder. The only medical solution is surgery. You can't treat aberrant chromosomes with drugs and therapy.

I can totally understand how it feels to not feel the way society tells you that you should, and that your body isn't your true one. I spent my childhood convinced that I wasn't human because I didn't get happy or sad when I was supposed to, or laugh at the right time, and most of the time I just didn't feel anything at all. I didn't want to play with other kids, I just wanted my books and my numbers. At first I thought I was an alien, and then a robot. It turns out it was just undiagnosed autism, but I wouldn't find that out for another two decades.

There's no cure for autism either, so I'm also stuck with it. I'm glad that trans people can get surgery to become who they want to be. It's an opportunity I don't have.

bamccaig

@Chris Katko: Very well said. Bravo.

Bruce Perry

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID

What am I missing there?

Edgar Reynaldo

Trans Mission

EDIT
I will never respect Bill Nye ever again. My hero is dead to me now. My sex junk is oh-oh-oh? Give it up for Rachel Bloom? WTFF. And Neil DeGrasse Tyson died to me too, when he said he didn't believe in God. Science isn't the answer to everything.

Bruce Perry

Science is the art of modelling and predicting things, nothing more. Who said it was the answer to everything?

[EDIT]
Thanks for clarifying the transmission joke :)

Aaron Bolyard

A New Generation Overthrows Gender: NPR

I thought this number was interesting:

Quote:

A January 2015 general population survey of 1,000 people age 18-34, conducted for Fusion media, found that just 46 percent agreed that "there are only two genders, male and female." Fifty percent, meanwhile, said "gender is a spectrum, and some people fall outside conventional categories." And another recent survey suggests the same trend.

If I had the time I'd write a 10-paragraph reply parodying what has been posted in this thread... But "liberal media", "feminist agenda", etc. :)

Felix-The-Ghost

Is Ditto gender-nonbinary or genderfluid?

Aaron Bolyard

That would depend on how a particular Ditto identifies as, wouldn't it? ;) Otherwise, you might as well ask "What gender are humans?"

bamccaig

I for one would be very curious to see where "Max" is in 20 and 40 years.

Chris Katko

Looks like the liberals found out that the ORIGINAL Bill Nye (which is on Netflix) actually said, "Science tells us, there are two genders." Well, we can't have that!

So Netflix has censored the originals to line up with the new narrative.

Apparently, even history must be corrected under The New Directive lest people erroneously absorb Wrong Think.

video

PRAISE BE TO SOROS. I offer my history books up to be burned in
effigy, to please his holy name.

[edit] Live video from me:

video

torhu

That would depend on how a particular Ditto identifies as, wouldn't it? ;) Otherwise, you might as well ask "What gender are humans?"

Sexual reproduction appeared a few hundred million years ago, probably in a species of fish. If that didn't happen, we likely wouldn't even have sex or gender as a concept. And we wouldn't be here talking about it or anything else either, because sexual reproduction is what accelerated evolution to the point where it produced us after just a few billion years. It exists because it is an evolutionary advantage. Basically, sex as a concept comes from biology.

We are a social species. Many of our innate behavioral patterns and instincts are related to our sexual reproduction.

We are also the lifeform with the most culture on this planet. Some of that is concerned with ideas about sex and gender. The question of gender is a complex one for us humans.

Your gender is determined for you by genes and hormones. That goes for transsexuals too. As far as we know today, transsexuality occurs when something going awry with hormones that influence your brain while it is developing in the womb. Sex hormones will affect your behavior, whether you inject them, or they are produced by your humongous balls or your petite ovaries.

Your gender is part of your description too. If you look like a man, claiming that you are a woman is not the best idea. You can say that you feel like a woman, and want to be one, which is not quite the same.

Derezo

Did anyone watch the whole thing?

I stopped it before I could understand why I had even started it.

it's COOL TO BE TRANS/AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID. You're "brave". You're "courageous."

You misunderstand what's going on here. We can all agree that it's healthy to express oneself and be comfortable with who you are and how you feel. That can be very difficult when what you want to express is very contrary to what everyone around you perceives as "normal". When people call others of a particular group names and use platforms like this thread to make fun of them and use them to advance your political ideals, it creates a very strong resistance to that expression. That is why it is considered "brave" or "courageous" to express that you are trans, bi, gay, etc. It's a part of yourself that is different which others cannot see, and can make a person very vulnerable. That's why it is brave -- they don't know what to expect, and they have a lot of fear around it in the beginning, but they express themselves despite that.

I have trans-gendered family members. I grew up with my cousin Kimberly, who was older than I was and had always been a "tom boy" growing up. Then she came out as lesbian, and years later came out as trans-gendered, underwent sex change therapy, and is now much happier as a man.

The idea that it is a "mental illness" is not entirely out of line, but those who use that argument are normally trying to make it seem like they are inferior or flawed, kind of like a bully.

As torhu mentioned, the biological mechanisms of how this comes about are not entirely mysterious. For example, a female fetus of a mother who experiences prolonged spikes of adrenaline throughout her pregnancy are known to express more male traits and have modified brain development that is more akin to that of a male. When that fetus grows up and goes to college, she may be more comfortable identifying as a male, because the disconnect from other women is so wide and she's connected with other genders differently than other women normally do.

These ideas are just generally unpopular among the religious, who have long standing traditional values and rules regarding gender roles, which aren't really applicable any longer.

Aaron Bolyard

I attended a showing of Shakespeare's play "As You Like It" yesterday. Even Shakespeare knew gender roles were bunk. He's more understanding than you lot and he's been dead 400 years. ;D

torhu said:

Your gender is determined for you by genes and hormones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Sex and gender are not the same word when used in the context of gender identity. Stop using them as such.

When I use the word gender in threads like this, it's not a synonym for sex. I'm referring to the social roles most often assigned to specific sexes. Thus, gender non-conforming would be someone who simply doesn't adhere to the social roles assigned to one's sex. For example, something as simple as a stay-at-home father would be subverting typical Western gender roles.

It's like states of matter. For your everyday usage, three states of matter are more than good enough--but you wouldn't use that elementary concept when studying or discussing more complex physics.

torhu

Sex and gender are not the same word. Stop using them as such.

Gender and sex is the same concept originally, and usually still is. Please read what I wrote with that in mind. I was not talking about definitions, but about realities.

Aaron Bolyard

I'm not using sex and gender as synonyms.

torhu said:

I was not talking about definitions, but about realities.

What does that even mean? "Realities?"

torhu

I know, but that doesn't matter in the context of what I wrote.

Aaron Bolyard

And what you replied doesn't matter in the context of what I wrote.

LennyLen

So really, what we're arguing here is semantics?

Bruce Perry

This always seems to happen, doesn't it?

A little charitable interpretation on both sides would go a long way. :)

Aaron Bolyard

A little charitable interpretation on both sides would go a long way.

Why? If I were to use the word peruse in the sense of "thoroughly reading a work" (the classical definition) and someone replies to me as if I had used peruse to mean "skim a work" (the informal definition), should I bother to humor their misinterpretation of my post? Especially if they knew what I meant (the classical definition) but for some bizarre reason felt the need to use the informal definition?

Derezo

Well perhaps you should start attaching a video of your response so that the complexities of it's meaning is more thoroughly conveyed through the use of intonation and inflection. As far as we all know you're just a part of the machine! Down with skynet!

video

Aaron Bolyard

Similarly related...

Dear White People

I just watched the first episode and have to ask what is wrong with the show? Have you watched it, Chris Katko?

Bruce Perry

Aaron, so basically you're saying "He started it!"?

The charitable interpretation of my post is: I haven't looked closely and don't know who started it, and just wanted to be egalitarian[1] in the way I addressed it (that's why "on both sides" is in there). If you're blameless then you don't need to worry. If you're not, then... being charitable will make friends and influence people :)

Don't mind me, I'm just rambling now. I should be sleeping.

References

  1. which you can charitably interpret as 'feminist'? OK now I'm just trolling ;D
Gideon Weems

Looks like the liberals found out that the ORIGINAL Bill Nye (which is on Netflix) actually said, "Science tells us, there are two genders." Well, we can't have that!

So Netflix has censored the originals to line up with the new narrative.

Ahaha, so that's why everyone's posting that video clip?! That is hilarious. I vow to no longer support Netflix by pirating their exclusive shows.

Edit: I made it 53 seconds into the first post's video before the forces between my palm and face resulted in nuclear fusion.

Ben Delacob

(One definition of) what "gender" means is clearly socially created. I do not wear a dress because I identify as a man and that's what role I play in society. My junk and chromosomes have nothing to do with not wearing a dress! That's why we have the concept of "gender". But it also sometimes means "sex". The only real reason is because it can be unclear if you're talking about the verb or I guess people are too uncomfortable saying "sex". It's really not a big deal even if you disagree with some things people think about gender but these videos are strange and unsettling!

LennyLen
torhu said:

Sexual reproduction appeared a few hundred million years ago, probably in a species of fish. If that didn't happen, we likely wouldn't even have sex or gender as a concept. And we wouldn't be here talking about it or anything else either, because sexual reproduction is what accelerated evolution to the point where it produced us after just a few billion years. It exists because it is an evolutionary advantage. Basically, sex as a concept comes from biology.

We are a social species. Many of our innate behavioral patterns and instincts are related to our sexual reproduction.

We are also the lifeform with the most culture on this planet. Some of that is concerned with ideas about sex and gender. The question of gender is a complex one for us humans.

Your gender is determined for you by genes and hormones. That goes for transsexuals too. As far as we know today, transsexuality occurs when something going awry with hormones that influence your brain while it is developing in the womb. Sex hormones will affect your behavior, whether you inject them, or they are produced by your humongous balls or your petite ovaries.

Your gender is part of your description too. If you look like a man, claiming that you are a woman is not the best idea. You can say that you feel like a woman, and want to be one, which is not quite the same.

I bet if that one instance of gender had been swapped for sex, Aaron probably would have agreed with this.

Aaron Bolyard
LennyLen said:

I bet if that one instance of gender had been swapped for sex, Aaron probably would have agreed with this.

You are correct.

Neil Roy

Live video from me:

LMAO, that was awesome! ;D

Chris Katko

I just watched the first episode and have to ask what is wrong with the show? Have you watched it, Chris Katko?

If I created a show or movie called Dear Black People, what do you think would happen?

Quote:

LMAO, that was awesome! ;D

=D

torhu

You are correct.

You are lying, aren't you?

Aaron Bolyard

If I created a show or movie called Dear Black People, what do you think would happen?

I asked if you watched the show. Did you?

I've finished watching it and suspect you haven't. As far as I can tell, the only people who would take offense to the title are those the show is criticizing; in other words, it's ironic to be upset by the title.

"Dear Black People" implies blacks have any sort of power to systematically oppress whites, which is untrue (keep in mind the context here is the United States).

The most illuminating statistic I've come across about racial inequality come from wealth distribution. It's hard to explain, but I felt disgusted knowing how unequal our society is, especially along racial lines--I never realized how bad it was until I saw the data. Look for yourself: asset distribution & net worth by quintile Blacks are poorer than whites by a giant margin in every category.

Note: Our (brother and me) household wealth is in the lowest quintile and our household income is merely 50% above the federal poverty guidelines. I'm acutely aware whites can be poor too. :)

torhu said:

You are lying, aren't you?

I agree with you lot on a great many issues, but you'd never realize it because you're looking to paint me as a comical boogeyman. For example, I have stated numerous times men face issues (harsher criminal sentences, extreme stigmas of being a victim of sexual or domestic abuse, child custody and finances, etc), but it's either 1) ignored 2) grossly misinterpreted.

I expect nothing less from such angry people, though. It's as if you want to be perpetually angry and confrontational.

...

By the way, I think Bill Nye's new show is terrible, too! Each episode I (tried to) watch is garbage.

raynebc

"Dear Black People" implies blacks have any sort of power to systematically oppress whites

I disagree. The meaning I infer from those three words is that somebody is about to discuss a supposed issue that's characteristic of black people in general, probably including some biased, racist sentiment. I'd tend to expect something similar from somebody of another race addressing "white people" this way. Your argument reminds of me a type of false claim I've heard that is along the lines of "when white people are the majority they can't be victims of racism". It has a similar quality to feminist propaganda bullsh*t like "women can't be sexist toward men because the only oppressors are men".

Aaron Bolyard
Quote:

I disagree.

Did you know what the title is referring to? "Dear White People" is a radio show hosted by one of the characters that highlights racist occurrences in a mostly white ivy league college. With that in mind, how does "Dear Black People" work in such a setting?

Chris Katko's disagreement is the equivalent of criticizing the subject matter of a book by its cover.

raynebc said:

Your argument reminds of me a type of false claim I've heard that is along the lines of "when white people are the majority they can't be victims of racism".

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? "Whites in America cannot be victims of systematic racial oppression." Why?

Felix-The-Ghost

At this point I can't tell wether or not you're trolling

Aaron Bolyard

Why do you think I'm trolling?

Bruce Perry

Oh, hello :)

Though I'm not from the US, I thought black people had a lot of power, simply because they have so much societal support from people who want to make absolutely sure they aren't at a disadvantage, and from anti-discrimination laws which - while worded in general terms - are in practice most likely to be interpreted in favour of black people.

Of course, the more time you spend actually focusing on this stuff and fighting like Autobots and Decepticons (i.e. there can be no winner), the fewer constructive activities you exercise yourself in, and the less employable you become.

raynebc

At this point I can't tell wether or not you're trolling

It has to be trolling.

Chris Katko

Dear Black People" implies blacks have any sort of power to systematically oppress whites, which is untrue (keep in mind the context here is the United States).

As long as you hold to that form of inequality, we'll never be able to discuss this further or understand each other.

Because according to that logic, things like this cannot happen:

Black teens charged with hate crimes after live-streaming the kidnap and torture of white disabled man while shouting ‘f*** white people’

Except they did... and do. Proudly torturing an autistic boy and livestreaming it to their friends solely because of the color of his skin. There is no other word for it but "racism."

What specific black person was hurt in the past, to justify this? Because the typical liberal saying of "some blacks somewhere at some time had bad things happen to them, so blacks can't hurt whites" is a moral smoke bomb designed to obfuscate clear lines of guilt.

In my world, everyone is equal and that means being equally held accountable for the same crime. And if you can't accept that, then we can't communicate on a fundamental level.

Now, you may then say, "Why bring up this extreme example?" It's pretty clear. I've proved through an example that blacks can be racist with an example that would justify my argument to 99% of moderates. So now that we've established that, the question is then not "Can blacks be racist" but "At what point is it racism?" The search for "the line." And now, you can see the linkage between "everyone is judged by the same rules" ala "justice is blind", shows that a TV show or movie called "Dear Black People" by current "liberal" cultural rules, would be seen as racist on title alone, and therefor, so is a show titled "Dear White People."

I'm merely using the same liberal logic through the lens of equality.

Felix-The-Ghost
raynebc said:

It has to be trolling.

ditto.png

Aaron Bolyard

How is a targeted hate crime systematic oppression?

God damn you bunch have terrible reading comprehensions skills.

Chris Katko

Maybe read the rest of my comment. I had to add the explanation because... as you've demonstrated, you'd fail to see the linkage without me spelling out every dot along the line.

Felix-The-Ghost

In a fictional world where blacks are supposedly systematically oppressed by the "white man" no group of thugs would have the stones to live-stream such an event, especially without hiding their identities.

Aaron Bolyard

Maybe read the rest of my comment. I had to add the explanation because... as you've demonstrated, you'd fail to see the linkage without me spelling out every dot along the line.

You edited that in after I posted. I never said blacks can't be racist. I was clearly was talking about systematic oppression.

Blacks lack the political clout to create and pass legislation to disenfranchise others. Blacks do not wield the physical presence, via private militias or government agencies, to disenfranchise another race or group.

You are comparing some racist assholes to Jim Crow laws.

You might as well compare your brain to a pea. But wait, that's fitting!

You're all idiots.

raynebc

There is no systemic racism toward black people in the USA today. Individuals may act on biased preferences, but Aaron already is dismissing individual acts of racism. Maybe he thinks that since many people among the minority groups don't elevate themselves to success it's because they were held down by an invisible hand. That's not the case, it's just an excuse. People are granted equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. Common PC mechanisms is the USA such as hiring quotas actually disadvantage white people by giving special favor to minorities, whereas I feel people should be rewarded based on merit.

bamccaig

Blacks Lower and middle-class people lack the political clout to create and pass legislation to disenfranchise others. Blacks Lower and middle-class people do not wield the physical presence, via private militias or government agencies, to disenfranchise another race or group.

FTFY. You see that rich people are predominantly white and conclude that white people are in power. You see that rich people are predominantly men and conclude that men are in power. You are an idiot.

Edgar Reynaldo

Okay, I'm in.

If there is no systematic oppression of the black minority today, what is it that can explain such a ponderous social gap? Are black people dumb? Do they lack the skills necessary to fully interact with society today? Yes. Black children have the lowest scores in education today. Why is that? Are they incapable of learning? Most blacks never go on to college and get an education which would empower them to earn a real income and a living wage. I think the main problems with blacks today are 1) They have no real culture, and 2) They lack basic education.

What keeps blacks from going to school? I know for sure that as an unemployed white male over 35 you can go back to school and you can get your degree. You can change your life. It took me 6 years to get my degree but I did it. I started out at a local community college, because it was all I could afford, and government loans and grants covered my living costs and tuition. But after 3 years I got my AA degree. Along the way I had kept up a perfect GPA of 4.00, taking 3 classes at a time, and it got me into a great private college with a full tuition scholarship. The school was really expensive though, and I had to take out sizable loans from the government to pay for it. But after 2 and a 1/2 years I graduated, and I even got to go to New York City for a semester to study the Arts. Now here I am and today I got an interview with a software Q and A testing company located locally.

So, I don't get it. Minorities get the majority of financial aid and scholarships, due to affirmative action and non descrimination laws. Are blacks too lazy to go to school? I doubt that. It is likely that blacks work harder than many others, likely having to work 2 or 3 jobs to meet financial needs. But the key to life is to work smarter, not harder.

So is our educational system failing blacks? I've heard about studies of how black children learn differently than whites, favoring tactile learning over rote summary and memorization. It's common knowledge that some people are better at hands on learning than at theoretical discussion, because until they see it work for themselves, it doesn't make sense.

As for 1) earlier, I stand by this. The blacks of today have no culture. What they have is rap culture, gang culture, poverty culture. They have no role models. Bill Cosby used to be a role model for black people, but then his clout got ruined when he was accused of child molestation. Can you think of many black role models for today? I can think of Neil Degrasse Tyson and that's about it. OMG Duh - Barack Obama (but he doesn't count because we all secretly know he's white). They have role models like Tupac Shakur, Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg. What do they teach you about life? All that the generations before them have struggled so long and so hard to overcome they just throw away. The civil rights movement. The jazz era.

So are blacks being denied jobs? Yes, because they're not qualified for them. Why aren't they qualified? Because either 1) they don't value education or 2) our education system is incapable of teaching them properly. So are blacks being systematically oppressed? If you could see the percentage of black people in this community that work at McDonald's, Burger King, Hardee's, I would say yes. It's their lack of basic education that makes everything else fail for them. And it's hard to tell if it's discrimination, or simply segregation by lack of education.

That's my 2c.

Peace out.

bamccaig

That's a great story, Edgar. Good for you for persevering. Just curious though: how much money do you owe right now? Not all jobs pay well, and not all professions do either. So while that story might go well for some people, it goes badly for a lot of people too (i.e., more debt than they can pay back, ensuring even with an education they're still indefinitely poor).

Edgar Reynaldo

I owe approximately $55,000 in federal loans, near the limit. The entry level job I interviewed for today offers $28K to $35K per year. That would allow me to pay back my investment in approximately 3 years. Trust me, they want their money back. But the tech industry is booming these days, and it's going to stay that way. If I go on to get my Master's degree, I'm sure starting salaries would approach $50K or more annually.

Back to blacks and education and the nation, it's our nation's fault that we don't value education more than we do. Teachers are grossly underpaid for the work that they do. They are literally building our future, one student at a time. Without the youth, without education, we have no future, and that is the problem. There's such an emphasis on standardized testing these days it's ridiculous. If you don't fit the educational mold, you're denied income and standard of living. If the government would invest in more technical schools and more fully fund K-12 education, our nation would grow and prosper like never before. In Europe, a college level education is practically guaranteed. Here we teach you how to make change so you can work at McDonalds and serve the master race. :P

bamccaig

I agree that the USA devalues education by design, and that is the ultimate problem. Again though, it isn't entirely that the white males are holding education back from everybody. From what I've heard, even the white males get shitty education. It's the rich making education inaccessible. The fact that they're allowing social justice warriors to take over university campuses further devalues education and cripples choices for Americans (and Canadians) (and many other Western nations).

Chris Katko
raynebc said:

People are granted equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.

It's amazing how many people from ACTUAL oppressive communist (pre-fall of Soviet Union) nations come to the USA, and do just fine, and even go on to bash political correctness as fascism. But somehow, people who've lived in the USA for decades or centuries longer are somehow more disaffected just because of the melanin content of their skin. It's like some form of reverse Midichlorians.

"Anakan, I have news for you."
"What is it?"
"The report shows... you're black."
"OH GOD NO. I'll never be successful now!"

I'm sure the Irish did JUST GREAT when they came to this country because they were white. Oh wait, they were merciliously prosecuted. So much for whites sticking together. They even died on ships coined "Coffin Ships". So, if we're really "progressive" and for "equality" and against historical, systematic "discrimination", why do no liberals defend the Irish? OH YAH. CUZ DAY WHITE.

I'd be "liberal" if no matter how you cut or slice their logic it comes off completely hypocritical. So I stick to the non-hypocritical rules. Treating others as you would want to be treated. Treating everyone equally (ala Justice is Blind), where a crime is a crime no matter what label you identify with.

I mean it's so easy to pick it all apart. Let's say blacks are disenfranchised or whatever buzzword you want. What if a black kid is adopted by white parents. He now has access to "the white world" so can he no longer claim victim status? Or, a black person molests a white child. Are we just supposed to let that person go because OTHER whites have hurt blacks at some point? In what way could you possibly justify a child being molested? The whole victim hierarchy breaks down under it's own absurdity. And liberals know that, so instead of debating, they've decided to make "debating" itself (and revealing their hypocrisy) a new kind of "racism." Merely questioning someone is conveniently "bigotry" so nobody will ever see that behind the veil... is nothing at all.

As a rule: I don't trust anyone who says, "Don't ask questions." Even more so if they say, "There's something wrong with you, if you do." That's how you run a cult, and we might as well be talking about 90's hell-and-brimstone Christians saying "You shalt not question the Lord's will--which conveniently lines up with my neo-conservative idealogy."

bamccaig

It's actually incredibly amusing when women claim to be oppressed. If you look at the political spectrum Feminism is considerably more powerful than black activists are. Despite the fact that historically, women have been far better off than black people (particularly, in America, but probably in the West in general), and indeed took part in slave ownership. A white woman was infinitely more powerful and respected during the slave trade. For them to claim "oppression" now is sickening considering they don't even comprehend what it means (as a man born in 1986, with white skin color, neither do I). The vast majority of vocal Feminists in the West were born after me... What the fuck do they know about oppression as privileged women??? Most of them white too since Feminism isn't really overly concerned with black women. The whole social justice phenomenon takes on a totally different face when you open your mind to ideas. Winning an argument feels good in the moment, but is ultimately meaningless. You can win an argument and be wrong. You can lose an argument and be right. If winning matters more than being right then you're missing the point. Unfortunately, it seems that most college and university campuses are missing the point these days. That in itself spells doom for our children and grandchildren. What do they have to look forward to if during a questionable period in the stability of our world we're raising people to be ignorant, professional victims? Who is going to take care of them when the generations before them are gone? Who will listen to their cries? I cannot shake my head harder. I'm already dizzy. And I'm not even Dizzy. I'm not sure where he is. Probably high.

Append:

I'm not sure when this was filmed or if it's related at all to the show, but perhaps there's still hope:

video

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