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Beware the contributor covenant code of conduct
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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{"name":"sexual-consent-comic.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/b\/0bacb92e1f47fef1ac693f011a11e995.png","w":780,"h":800,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/b\/0bacb92e1f47fef1ac693f011a11e995"}sexual-consent-comic.png

Source: http://redpanels.com/97/

;D

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Okay, I won't lie, that made me laugh.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Yeh, the current cultural climate in the USA seems to be ... outrageaous. Almost every movement in history that isn't based on reason has the tendency to grow until it is a tragic parody of itself. Feminism used to demanding that men and women have equal legal rights. Now it seems to be about making women afraid of men and vice versa. It makes me suspect a divide and conquer is going on for the benefit of the truly privileged 0.001%.

Of course in such a climate documents such as the CCCoC are likely to rear their ugly heads. While I think a few simple explicit rules can be beneficial, they have to be carefully written to avoid any legal problems. On the same note, that is why I don't like the GPL as a project license. The GPL might be useful, but it has a clear political goal. Although it does have a disclaimer and was checked by lawyers to avoid the risk of litigation against developers, I still don't like how it is implicitly about trying to force all software to be free/libre. With the GPL3, the FSF has jumped the shark even more.

While I may be in favour of changing our economic system, I find it dishonest to first give away software and then try to use that software to try and achieve this. The CCCoC also implicit has political goals which is even more detrimental to developers and not even the security of a disclaimer. That is why we have to either not use a CoC or write a better one ourselves for our projects.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I think that it's incredibly sick and ignorant to compare the "Contributor Covenant" with the GPL. The GPL's stated goal is copyleft. Modifications are welcome, and sharing modifications are welcome! The only thing they ask in return is that you make your modified copies available as well. It's not like they're going to kick your door down for changing GPL software, compiling it, and running it on your own machine without telling anyone. It's more for cases where somebody does something cool, tells people about it, and now everybody wants that cooler modified version. Except allowing this person that "tweaked" it to change the license would allow them to actually make the software non-free since now the new feature is "necessary". The copyleft forces them to make their source changes libre (NOT gratis!) as well under the same terms so that it's possible to keep the entire thing free without all of the people that don't understand software freedom jumping ship... The GPL will not "trap" the developer, and it doesn't even "trap" a client. The LGPL is made for allowing free software libraries to be linked into non-free software. Anybody that takes a hard stance against the GPL without taking an even harder stance against proprietary software should be diagnosed as clinically retarded... Seriously. Stop with the ignorant GPL hate already. Nobody is forcing you to use it, and if you don't care that your software remains libre then don't, but don't spread misinformation about it making it sound like the Boogeyman when it has clearly defined intentions.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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If CoC came about because of programmers being terrible to each other on projects there would have been little blow back to it. Problem is that the CoC goes out of its way to show it is a feminist angled crock of shit.

Quote:

Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. We will not act on complaints regarding:

  • ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’

  • Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you”

  • Refusal to explain or debate social justice concepts

  • Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial

  • Criticizing racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressive behavior or assumptions

In the sane world a person being racist is racism no matter what their race. In feminist world minorities can't be racist because they are oppressed. Feminists coined the reverse bullshit and then said it doesn't exist. Reverse racism is the concept African Americans, Asians, and Hispanics making racist comments toward White people, feminists coined the term and then said it doesn't exist.

In the sane world men and women can be sexist to each other. In feminist world, women can't be sexist again due to oppression. Oh, and the "evil patriarchy". Reverse sexism is the concept of women making sexist remarks toward men.

The start of the CoC makes it sound like it is fair and equal, but the lower half makes it clear that it is aimed more at white men than anyone else. In other words, women saying a man is sexist, or a minority saying a white person is being racist will have consequences, but since it can't be the other way around, they won't bother looking at it.

What other group has seen feminist try to make things one sided I wonder.
Have your job because you are skilled and have the experience? That is a bad thing!
How about a woman tell why she is not a feminist...

video

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

I'm not convenant at all.

Shitty code is shitty, no matter how you call it. Replace 'code' by whatever you want, it still works.

Let's call things by their real name, would we ?
Like, an asshole IS an asshole, a fucking racist/homophobe IS a f.u.c.k.i.n.g racist/homophobe.

All that CoC sounds like stories for the care bears.
Except that we are in the real world, and care bears aren't real.

8-)

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Feminist equality in action everyone:

video

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

dthompson
Member #5,749
April 2005
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Very interesting to hear peoples' thoughts on this.

I've recently found myself comparing GitHub and the Allegro project in general (I know they are two very different beasts but still)... I see all of the manipulation, grumpiness, Sheldonism and ego massage in so much of the FLOSS on GitHub, and it freaks me out a bit.

Since I was 13, I've found Allegro and Allegro.cc to be very welcoming, tolerant and fun. If I joined the average large GitHub project at 13, I honestly think the culture would have a very good chance of turning me into an incredibly shitty person - at least online, if not IRL.

Allegro appears to have dodged this toxic culture and it seems like it's still as chilled as it ever was. :)

______________________________________________________
This is my website and this is not.
This isn't a game!

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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We live in the toxic for so long that it isn't toxic anymore. Only here.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

The FSF's stated goal is to promote computer user freedom. While this is not at all a bad goal, it does remain a political goal, which is sometimes at the detriment of the developer's freedom.

Unfortunately, the GPL makes it often hard for me as a developer who is forced to work on commercial software. As long as we have our current economic system, closed source software will remain an unfortunate necessity. If an open source project, especially a library is liberally licensed, then as a developer, then I have the freedom to use it on the job lessening the amount of closed source software needed in the whole of the project. With GPL licensed libraries, I don't have that freedom, and I have to look for more liberally licensed alternatives, or even closed source libraries (shudder).

I do think that copyleft licences are fine for programs (not libraries), as they do seem to prevent needless forks. Linux is a good example of this. but look at libreadline, they had to develop more liberally licensed alternatives just because it can't be used in many places due to the GPL. That is a huge waste, I feel, which is largely due to trying to use the GPL to promote the aforementioned political goal, but it ends up backfiring in cases of libraries.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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So you take issue with the GPL on the grounds that the volunteers and activists who develop software with it aren't giving you the freedom to extend your proprietary software directly with their works? You can certainly be annoyed that you can't utilize their hard work and save yourself time, but it's not them you should be angry at. It's the industry and employer that is forcing you to develop proprietary software that is incompatible with the GPL.

You also can't use proprietary software to extend yours (unless you strike a deal, usually for a ridiculous price). In fact, I can't use the proprietary software that you develop to freely extend my software! Nor can you with the proprietary software I'm enslaved to develop. That's far worse than the GPL. Not only can you not use it in proprietary works, you can't use it at all without express permission, usually in the form of a 3 to 7 figure annual fee. And when you can use it, you often can't modify it or even know how it works.

It seems that because readline is explicitly part of GNU they are opting to keep it copyleft. The wiki article explains that CLISP, a Common Lisp implementation, is an example of software that changed its license as a result of readline being GPL. Which is already a win for free software.

Most users of proprietary software won't even be familiar with readline so they won't miss it. Those of us that use both, forced or otherwise, will appreciate why the copyleft isn't compatible with proprietary software.

That said, most non-GNU GPL software authors would likely be willing to consider a custom license for your proprietary software if you wanted to make them an offer to license it differently. As the copyright owners they have the power and freedom to relicense the work under special terms for you. Just because the software is GPL doesn't mean that you have no chance of using it. You just might have to pay for it like you would for proprietary software, and perhaps meet other terms (i.e., don't modify it) to prevent you from "competing" with the project on its own back.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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I figured it out...feminists, radical feminists, sjws, whatever you want to call them appear to be suffering from Munchausen syndrome.

Quote:

Munchausen syndrome is a psychiatric factitious disorder wherein those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves.

I've lost track of how many times feminists use the claim of having PTSD because of disagreements online. I recall the backlash over a feminist arguing with a soldier on if she had PTSD and then she threatened to go to his commanding officer. The CoC is just a new tool to cater to their disorder.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

I have to say, I think your diagnosis nails it completely for lots of these modern "femenists". People aren't so emotionally frail as some of them pretend to be unless they are mentally unwell overall.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

Replacing "Cis/het/white/male" with "Jew" in SJW posts http://imgur.com/a/8anj7 ;D

No thread is complete without Hitler >:(

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

I don't blame developers for using a certain licence, but I dislike more what the FSF is trying to do with the GPL. In particular, while I think their intentions are good, I don't like the means they are using to achieve this. And that is trying to use software and developers for an ulterior goal.

Also, many developers adopt the GPL without thinking about the repercussions, much like they seem to do with the CCoC.

Yes, I don't like proprietary software, and the whole corporate world is silly if not insane, but we have to live with it as it is for now. And most managers would rather shell out tons of cash for proprietary libraries than try to comply with the GPL. I never saw them pay for a special license to GPL software. The net result then, of the GPL is that in the corporate world, this results in less FLOSS being used, not more.

While libreadline is only one example, to me, the CLISP case is an example of how the GPL was used to force developers into doing into doing something they normally wouldn't have done. The GPL was used to advance the goals of the FSF. Now, while in this case, the result was beneficial to the public at large, it is still an example of using software for an ulterior goal.

It is that point that the makers of the CCoC have understood well: you can use software and unsuspecting developers to advance your own agenda. And that is what they are trying to do. Of course, their goals leave much to be desired compared to the FSF's. And, at least, the FSF is honest and upfront about their goals, which can't really be said about the authors of the CCoC. But in essence FSF and the SJW's are trying to use the same means towards their goals.

And it's that type of means that I thoroughly dislike no matter what the goal may be. I think that the means are not necessarily justified by the goal.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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raynebc said:

I have to say, I think your diagnosis nails it completely for lots of these modern "femenists".

Those things aren't congruent. Just because there are feminists who behave like this does not reflect the whole group. There are insecure attention seeking people in every group, not just feminists.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

This behavior is encouraged by gender studies professors and the likes, they are basically taking advantage of gullible people to give their insane ideology power. It's kind of like ISIS for priviliged Western kids with low IQ 8-)

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Derezo said:

Just because there are feminists who behave like this does not reflect the whole group.

Yet feminists and other media painted the #GamerGate consumer revolt as a hate mob due to a few that were being assholes. Funny how that works. Feminists set there and say, "oh, don't judge the group because of a few bad apples" yet there are articles that still come out blaming GamerGate as a hate mob based on anonymous threats made by random assholes using the tag. Seems we are getting into "no true Scotsman" territory with that claim though.

The media double standard is astounding:
"Don't judge feminists based on a few bad apples."
"GamerGate is a hate mob of misogynistic gamers based solely on a hand full of anonymous trolls."
"Black Lives Matter shouldn't be judge due to all the people praising the men that went on police killing sprees."

video

Even better question..why are people obsessed with a "Rape Culture" that doesn't exist? Even way back in 2012: http://critdamage.blogspot.com/2012/05/quit-pretending-there-isnt-videogame.html

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

Yet feminists and other media painted the #GamerGate consumer revolt as a hate mob due to a few that were being s. Funny how that works.

It is sad when people do that, and I'm glad you see that and can now admit your mistake.

torhu said:

It's kind of like ISIS for priviliged Western kids with low IQ 8-)

In ... .. what way?

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

Derezo said:

It is sad when people do that, and I'm glad you see that and can now admit your mistake.

Mistake? I was pointing out your argument fails to resonate. You set there saying not to paint feminists based on a few (even though I've posted several videos of women stating they quit being feminists for it being anti-male) while ignoring that feminists have painted all gamers as misogynists, transphobic, homophobic, sexist, et. al. and the media has taken that angle and ran with it. I was pointing out the irony of saying someone is falsely labeling all feminists while ignoring that feminists are falsely labeling people in order to silence them.

Feminists attacked a scientist for his freaking shirt and completely negated the huge accomplishment him and his team did. Making him cry and apologize for wearing a shirt a woman made for him.

Feminists went after Kaley Cuoco for saying she wasn't feminist and that she loved being a housewife. After that she had to apologize to feminists for her personal preferences.

Feminists lied about Tim Hunt.

Feminists and SJWs went after movies, music, comics, games, and novels in 2014 claiming they were "problematic".

Only 18% (last I looked) of Americans identified as feminist. More and more women are denouncing feminism and saying they are egalitarian. This is leaving the volatile ones in the movement which gives us all these childish attacks on things they are offended by expecting everyone to change it just for them.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

I've posted several videos of women stating they quit being feminists for it being anti-male

You could find more, too... and it still wouldn't make you any less wrong :(

Quote:

while ignoring that feminists have painted all gamers as misogynists, transphobic, homophobic, sexist, et. al

You immediately go back to it. What is the deal with that? Why do you think this is true? I know plenty of feminists who have not done this. You're just wrong :(

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Derezo said:

I know plenty of feminists who have not done this. You're just wrong

That's because you only know feminists, and not "feminists."

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Derezo said:

I know plenty of feminists who have not done this. You're just wrong

So your rebuttal is: "It isn't true because I haven't personally seen it."

You are stepping ever so closer to the "No true Scotsman" fallacy with that rebuttal.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE



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