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Brexit |
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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Chris Katko said: Non-stop comments from 18-year olds about how "seniors are insane and dooming the country." because they obviously know everything they need to know at 18.
Well, there's indeed a bit of a generational problem here. I've read that young people were ~ 75% pro-remain. But in old Europe, their whole generation is apparently too small to influence the outcome on the whole (!). Edit: Now this petition is almost at 2 million... |
Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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This is like... one of the greatest weekends of my life. Brexit has turned the liberal media into a gigantic, childish mess. For example: 1. The Best of British "Leave" Voters Realizing They've Made a Huge Mistake The shear amount of assumptions in the headlines along is hilarious. Even when liberals lose, they still can't admit it was their fault. "Democracy is dying" ... when a democratic vote tells them they lost. "Everyone is stupid." "Everyone is racist... especially those 'whites'." "We lost, but we won't lose that thing we fear even more!" It's really becoming apparent how insanely fearful liberal leaders and journalists are. That somehow, gigantic governments are the only solution, and the ONLY THING that somehow protects democracy, liberty, and provides jobs. It's an entire generation of children who have never been weaned off sucking the establishment's teats. An entire generation of alarmists who call themselves "progressive" but are really fearful of any actual change. You would think from the amount of fear and complaining that they voted to dissolve the ENTIRE government of the UK, and not just leave a membership. One of my favorite complaints of theirs is, "The people who voted, won't be alive to live and endure the consequences!" Even though like... "30 years old" is considered senior by this little douchebags, and that the opinions of all these people who are basically the entire backbone of the country in terms of experience and skillsets, are someone morons who are too dumb to listen to the 18-to-22-year olds being pushed by their liberal arts professors. And the absolutely, most delicious part? As mad, whiny, and LOUD as this children are, as old as time itself, they couldn't be bothered to go to the voting booth so their opinions didn't matter at all. If they could have been bothered to pickup a history book, they would have known and adapted--but that's a perfect analogy for their stances: Completely inexperienced and subject to emotional manipulation by governments and corporations. Things are going to keep on going. The world won't end or collapse. Brits don't need a European government to protect and provide for themselves. They're not morons. They're one of the most powerful, skilled countries in the world. And they should be allowed to make the best decisions for their country without consulting other countries. -----sig: |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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{"name":"610441","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/2\/12a0d288c239da985da8737bee4f56f1.jpg","w":746,"h":444,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/2\/12a0d288c239da985da8737bee4f56f1"} Append: Chris Katko said: One of my favorite complaints of theirs is, "The people who voted, won't be alive to live and endure the consequences!" Even though like... "30 years old" is considered senior by this little douchebags, and that the opinions of all these people who are basically the entire backbone of the country in terms of experience and skillsets, are someone morons who are too dumb to listen to the 18-to-22-year olds being pushed by their liberal arts professors. The numbers I've seen say 65+ are some 78% to exit. Means they essentially pushed it out, while 18-24 are about a mirror. If we exclude these two groups however, we remain quite decisively. And well, this democracy is disgusting. The oldest the most conservative, the most nationalist generation appeared to be least divided, and made the rest suffer. And it is fucking consensus about economic harm Two U.S. banks (JPM, & Stanley) already declared to pull 5 000 jobs out of UK on this. THIS IS only the beginning. Massive capital outflow will continue, there will be less of incentive to deploy capital via LSE(a lot of Russian companies list there, some planned listing is now in question, as a CEO said. Yes Russian capital is a drop in the ocean, but the reasoning is clear. London won't be as financial center anymore without the access to EU which it had). & now another thing: EU will spill UK blood, or it will dissolve. In other words: if UK prospers well without EU, others may follow suit. So Brussels shouldn't let this. They won't, it's not a clear game. Last paragraph is just thoughts. But somehow I've high degree of certainty that it's so.
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Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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The small, liberal media source* I use didn't have sensationalist headlines: "Britain Stuns World by Voting to Leave the European Union". Maybe I should use a better one... I'm not being a good liberal boogeyman. *: I also have BBC and NPR feeds, but they're slightly left at best. And the local newspaper feed is irrelevant... Chris Katko said: As mad, whiny, and LOUD as this children are, as old as time itself, they couldn't be bothered to go to the voting booth so their opinions didn't matter at all. Although refraining from voting does no favors, voting means essentially nothing. In the case of America, it simply does not matter if you vote, because those who actually present issues to legislators aren't you or me. They vote with money. The Princeton study on the support of legislation compared to wealth is incredibly depressing. The only way for the 'non-elite' to influence legislation is organized movements with clear goals. Sadly, after the success of such movements in 50s and 60s, the benefactors of the status quo have become more successful in countering such things... --- |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Now this is grand. Hell.. About it's about time.
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Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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OMG Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard) |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Ariesnl said: "But people can be THAT stupid" I think you actually spelled that right.
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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Now the promises fall to pieces. EU contributions going to the NHS? Oh, err, "one of the big mistakes of the leave campaign". The promises of those liars and demagogues didn't last longer than 2 days. Economic problems the remain-side predicted? Well, have a look around you. |
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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In fairness, I think there will be some people who voted for Brexit but aren't fans of Nigel Farage. Daniel Hannan campaigned for Brexit and seemed like a nice person, and when it happened, he was on TV saying that we need to find a way forward that also works for the 48% of people who wanted to remain. The economic problems are so far caused by fear of the unknown, aren't they? And how bad are they? No one expected the exchange rates to remain unaffected, and there will be people who argue that big banks leaving London is a good thing since those are some of the people who strengthened the divide between rich and poor. A lot hinges on how the exit is handled. Meanwhile, personally the next referendum I want to see is one that switches us to Single Transferable Vote in order to achieve proportional representation all the way up to national level. Perhaps then, all the people in poverty in this country will have someone fighting their corner and we won't get ourselves into such a ridiculous state again. How do we make this happen? I don't know. We could start a petition on the government site, but how would we gain enough momentum for it? Single Transferable Vote explained: -- |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I got my thoughts deeper recently. Unless UK somehow manages to workaround the referendum the way Greece did, EU will punish UK badly, they have to. Should UK thrive outside the EU, without any bad economic consequences which will be a clear result of the exit other countries may want to follow suit. And the opposition will love to use UK as an example, overthrowing(albeit democratically) the current powers on the way. So, in order for current line of politicians of the EU to remain in power, UK must suffer. Another thing, is that if UK won't suffer EU is likely to breakdown further, thus making both UK, and itself(and hell, all world from western south America to eastern north Siberia) to suffer from the outfall because of further EU dissolution. Conclusion? Brussels WILL make London suffer. They have to, or it's the end. Or maybe I just love House of Cards too much. But my above guess really makes good sense. All that is required is to be selfish during the negotiations, and not let UK have any favorable ones. Append:
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010
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When the older British die off, the millennials can push for a vote to re-join the EU (if the EU still exists and doesn't intend to hold a permanent grudge). Until then, remain crowd should stop crying about how it affects them "more" than the older people. The older people have and deserve a say, and the majority has spoken. |
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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What gets me the most is how these spoiled kids have learned these buzzwords to get their way, but they have no idea what they actually mean. They're actually calling a democratic vote "fascism" because they didn't get their way. It's pure insanity! -----sig: |
AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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I think the background music of that video should have been by John Lennon - Imagine. Mostly for the irony...
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Two major credit rating agencies downgraded UK by two notches from AAA to AA. One of these agencies is British Fitch. GBP doesn't even try rebounding. Export oriented stocks found support on weaker pound I suppose.
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GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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AND THIS IS ANOTHER BREXIT FROM THE EURO, CUP THIS TIME !! Britain 1 - 2 Iceland "Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours" |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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MOAR PETITIONZ! {"name":"610445","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/e\/dea6048208263bbb602e6e75e8020da4.jpg","w":1200,"h":967,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/e\/dea6048208263bbb602e6e75e8020da4"}
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ks
Member #1,086
March 2001
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It seems to me that you're taking extreme liberty in interpreting the intent of the "fascism" label. Why muddy the waters? Why do you think you have a better handle on those "buzzwords"? Was the fade to Nigel Farage(?) meant to be some unassailable truth? The final word? Consider that you're talking about social and economic policies interacting with innumerable measures of individual differences. Just seems to me that "the world as your oyster" in part means freedom of movement, to shift and pivot without too many issues. I detect a bit of irony. How do you know the "kids" are spoiled especially given you're separated by an ocean, and you don't know their personal realities and how they perceive the future? I suspect that their world has changed, even if just in theory, unlike you've perhaps ever experienced. Presumably, stating the blatantly obvious, the democratic process allows for the opposition to continue the discussion until the next election/referendum. Was the "right" silent on Obama's victory over the past eight years? What matters is whether the ongoing discussion is thoughtful. The process should always be self-critical, dynamic, and not static. Or, do you prefer sheep in a democracy? I ask these naive questions because I'm genuinely puzzled by the perceived stake held by outsiders. NWO? [In truth, I believe you have zero answers. Rather, it seems you have taken irrational joy in the misery of millions whether it be real or imagined. At the moment, I suspect it's very real.]
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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-----sig: |
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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Surely more old people vote for what they believe to be best for their children, than vote against it. -- |
Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010
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As I've learned, Britains in the north still suffer the consequences of deindustrialization under Thatcher. Somehow the national political establishment managed to put the blame for all problems on the EU, although, concerning immigration, it was the British government under Tony Blair which introduced free movement of workers from Eastern European countries in 2004 - unlike other western EU countries which had put a "transition period" in place to limit migration. It's one of the biggest problems of the EU's public perception: National governments tend to put the blame for their own (past) failures on the EU and rush to claim the EU's successes as their own. Bruce Perry said: In fairness, I think there will be some people who voted for Brexit but aren't fans of Nigel Farage. Of course. Actually, my problem is less with those usual suspects like Farage than with the likes of Johnson and other "established" pro Brexiters. It turns out now the Tory pro-Brexit camp didn't even have a plan for Brexit, because they didn't think they would actually succeed. That isn't how you lead Britain, that's just irresponsible. |
Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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{"name":"610447","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/0\/b07f84c80e9be900d3eb388a96b492e0.jpg","w":823,"h":800,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/0\/b07f84c80e9be900d3eb388a96b492e0"} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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Right, so I have to rant just a little bit. There are xenophobic hate crimes happening here and there in this country, but it's not clear to what degree the media is overblowing them because it's a hot topic. These are probably the minority and they can and will be dealt with through law enforcement. If the comparison is useful for anyone, then as far as I know, this country is largely better than America at saying that if you bully someone, it is not free speech, it is criminal and can be punished. Basically, not really a significant issue. As for the vote itself, well, for educated voters who voted leave, it was about the political establishment more than the people. Meanwhile, apparently there is a lot of slamming of England happening in the German media. Who cares - it's only the media. You could argue that it's important, but you could also just go, as an English person, and spend some time abroad and just be nice to people and it will be appreciated. The people who matter are pretty good at judging you based on their interactions with you, not on how the media portrays your nationality. HOWEVER. We don't live in a little bubble of people who are exactly like us, and we inevitably have people we're close to who worry about all this stuff and actually think that the silly video I uploaded (here it is again) is "dangerously close to seeming as if I like the guy, and I must be careful about saying anything that might make me seem like a horrible nationalist racist" or something like that. And I cannot fucking deal with that. ![]() -- |
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Interesting stuff. Also amazing how disrespectful, childish, and disruptive the fellow member state's representatives are. I think you can glean a lot from an organization or group of people, by how they treat members who are planning on leaving. p.s. Damn, I love a good British orator. Britain's best are so above the rest of the world's best in that regard. -----sig: |
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