Dennis, that video is honestly making me want to stay in the EU.

Amarillion, thanks for that - it was definitely necessary. Perhaps you're unaware of just how compellingly the leave campaigners are coming across!

One argument coming from the leave campaigners is that the EU is on the verge of incorporating Turkey, which is apparently risky, not necessarily because if the Turks but because it would create a common border between the EU and Syria. The good news is that I actually found a rebuttal of that argument, from John Major. Turkey has apparently negotiated one thing, or met one of about 30 criteria for joining the EU, and a lot of the problems there (whatever they are - as I said, I don't know) would have to be resolved before it could happen. Meanwhile, every country in the EU could singlehandedly veto it.

Now what's interesting is that the above-linked video has a majority of dislikes. Is it fair criticism or is it just that there's a massively strong leave sentiment on YouTube? Could it be that the people on YouTube are the people with the most problems in life (hence the need for distraction) and therefore the most likely to want to shake up the system? Surely there must be at least one video on YouTube that argues for staying in the EU and is good - why is every one of them disliked?

My guess is that that won't happen in the next 20 years, perhaps never. The resistance to that happening is very great, also in normally pro-EU countries like the Netherlands. With the recent referendum in NL that rejected the association treaty with Ukraine, Dutch politicians are weary of even small steps towards EU expansion. To overcome that weariness, Turkey would have to show a massive, consistent, long-term change towards better human rights policies, and that's not going to happen under current leadership.

Having said that, the EU is in a tough spot. They want to reduce immigration from Syria, and for that they need the help of Turkey. Turkey is a country with many human rights issues, and it is a poor fit with the values of the EU. But you can't negotiate if there is nothing on the table. So they have to give up something to Turkey too, a lot of money, and probably also visa-free travel for the Turks. The choice is between pandering to the Turks or a mediterranean full of drowning refugees (and we'll probably end up with both).

I would argue again, that also this is a detail. The refugee crisis is a temporary effect, caused by war in Syria. The big picture of the EU remains the same, it is about peace, trade and cooperation. All the rest is just a political wind that can change direction from one year to the next.

I think youtube comment threads are probably not the best place to research an issue.

edit: one more thing. In the UK I often see arguments like "The euro is a failure", "immigration policy of the EU is a mess", "the EU needs to be reformed". If you hear these things over and over again, then it becomes almost impossible not to see the EU as a horrible mess. But...

The euro is a failure Depends on how you define failure. The Euro is a daily fact of life for 300M people. With the banking system unified, I can transfer money, set up automatic transfers, or manage direct debits to companies from Italy to Finland, with zero extra charges: no rate conversion fees or other banking charges. My bank's online banking service no longer has separate forms for foreign and local transfers, they are one and the same. Think what a great benefit this is if you want to start a small online business: 300M customers can reach you with ease. I'll admit that the Euro hasn't been kind to greece, but don't forget that the Greek themselves still wanted to stay in the Euro throughout the crisis. To them, the Euro still represents the future.

immigration policy of the EU is a mess Of course it is, but that is because immigration is inherently tough to deal with. You want to balance charity, humanity, human rights, security, protect low paying jobs, get young workers to pay for pensions in an aging population, and deal with an undercurrent of xenophobism that exists accross the continent. And then you have to negotiate an agreement with 28 partners. Would you be able to come up with any better solution?

the EU needs to be reformed Perhaps, but different people would like different reforms, so you have to look at who is saying this. For example, conservatives in the UK complain about the working hours directive of the EU. This is a policy that would be very much supported by Labour. So is the EU the problem, or is this right-wing politicians complaining about a left-wing policy? Does this come back to a sovereignty issue, are the tories complaining that they can't change a policy even when they have a majority in parliament? But then Scottish nationalists also have a point that they can't overturn rules set in Westminster. If tories managed to dismiss the working hours directive, then perhaps SNP would like to re-instate it at the Scottish level. What this boils down to is a refusal to compromise. But you can't cooperate with 28 different countries without some compromise.

Everyone who is thinking it would be nice to have control of our borders should read this.

So after Brexit, they could treat people from the EU like this, too.

Polls suggest it's gonna happen. It'll hurt. Good thing I don't trade UK stocks, it's gonna be nightmare to analyze what's gonna be hurt least. I bet some companies gonna even benefit somehow.

Append: About immigration crisis.. It's not as simple as political wind. It's millions of people who are likely to stay & who aren't all that in to your system of values. Now this has two points:

A) They're younger than your average, so they're gonna do simple job allowing you to become a doctor, financial adviser, engineer & etc'
They're mostly without education, & are poor competition to EU natives, or immigrants from "whiter" countries like Russia. You can say you'll benefit economically from them.

B) They're not gonna assimilate as easy as you'd like, and are gonna be an aesthetic problem for generations. There will be changes of culture, system of values, look(both clothes, & genetic) and a hell lot of other things which people don't want in their homes. *

*- I do hope I didn't cross the border of political-correctness here, although I'm aware I'm at the border.

I don't think they're too uncomfortable with people from Netherlands immigrating, they surely want the Syrians way less though.

Aesthetic problem for generations.. Well, I see it about like this: an immigrant is different from native, it's always the case. However, if you can't distinguish his children from children of natives it's fine. If you can't, you get changes you may not want to have in what you consider your home. And I don't talk skin color, rather habits.

I'm quite sure Brits are way less comfortable with these changes than say, Israelis or current Americans, who wouldn't prosper if not the immigration.

Worst case, in 5 years, Britians rejoin the EU if they don't like being apart.

Wow, I really expected you guys to remain.

Here's a link to The Guardian for anyone interested.

OMG. David Cameron might have to step down tomorrow if they vote OUT.

MWAHAH

This could be history in the making!

Hope everything goes well for you British chaps! But destabilizing "the powers that be" sounds like a super win for, as one of your leaders said, "Real people" instead of multi-national corporations.

The going opinion seems to be that the leave vote came from the poorest people. They probably can't see how those numbers mean anything to them.

I doubt the EU is even remotely responsible for their problems, but we have some very insistent liars in government - the remain camp of course didn't at any point say "Don't blame the EU, blame us - we'll reform," and the leave camp blamed the EU probably just because it was an easy target with the referendum coming up. I'm not talking about all the politicians here, but certainly some of the most prominent ones. And it is possible I'm wrong about them being liars, or that the truth is somewhere in between.

What UK?