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Nokia and Microsoft
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Microsoft sucks, Microsoft Windows sucks, and Microsoft Windows Phone sucks. ::) With Valve bringing gaming to Linux you can expect the Windows desktop to die off quickly. Not the desktop, mind you, but the Windows one. They still have a decent grip of office software, but office software sucks anyway. >:( Death to that evil beast!

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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bamccaig said:

With Valve bringing gaming to Linux you can expect the Windows desktop to die off quickly. Not the desktop, mind you, but the Windows one.

How many businesses do you think are going to switch from Windows to ValveOS?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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LennyLen said:

How many businesses do you think are going to switch from Windows to ValveOS?

How many do you think are going to switch to linux? How many already have (IBM is a big one that has switched)?

One of the big reasons keeping people from (personally) switching was games. Many productivity applications already have a usable alternative on linux.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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How many do you think are going to switch to linux? How many already have (IBM is a big one that has switched)?

Super large corporations like IBM are fairly anomalous. While they are big, there are only a few such entities compared to the hundreds of thousands of mid sized businesses.

Those are the ones who make up the majority of the PC users, and for the most part, all the tools they need have already been written for Windows so it doesn't make sense to jump ship to a minor platform.

Quote:

Many productivity applications already have a usable alternative on linux.

There's a difference between usable and actively supported by a professional support team that are available 24/7.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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LennyLen said:

Super large corporations like IBM are fairly anomalous. While they are big, there are only a few such entities compared to the hundreds of thousands of mid sized businesses.

How about the multitude of governments and school districts across the globe?

Steady stream of people switching. It's only a matter of time.

Quote:

There's a difference between usable and actively supported by a professional support team that are available 24/7.

Such things exist for opensource software.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

It will happen slowly.

Then again whe you have examples like the ones I have in my RL job, damn...you gott ask WTF?

(Long story short: we developed a HW product suite in which the server software runs on CentOS but for ONE SINGLE HW there is one and only a control tool dev'd for Windows...)

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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It's so cute to see people discussing this death without actual arguments, just cos'.. Windows mustdie :P

In Russian IT world you can sometimes hear windows referred as a "mustdie"(мастдай).

Nevertheless.. Windows phone market share growth rapidly. I see no reason for that to change anytime soon. And the worst thing to happen to Windows desktop, is it to become a niche OS. Which is inevitable also, but I can not imagine Windows to disappear from the market any sooner than 20yr+. Most likely not even in a century.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I think WP8 will do as well as WP7 did. Maybe a bit better. Maybe.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

type568 said:

I can not imagine Windows to disappear from the market any sooner than 20yr+. Most likely not even in a century.

I do not think it will EVER disappear :o , but there IS a change and it's going to happen slowly.

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I think WP8 will do as well as WP7 did. Maybe a bit better. Maybe.

It is already doing MUCH better. It is a fact.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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LennyLen said:

How many businesses do you think are going to switch from Windows to ValveOS?

ValveOS SteamOS is basically just a Linux distribution that Valve will maintain. More than that, they are also supporting Steam on Ubuntu Linux (and in the future, probably other popular distros). Other unsupported distros still work, but aren't officially supported. IOW, as far as games support is concerned Linux is Linux is Linux in the long term.

Businesses don't care about games, but I didn't say that they did. I pointed out that office software will keep businesses tied in, albeit it sucks and users would be better off abandoning it, but they don't know any better so such is life. For the most part, businesses don't really have "desktops" anyway. They have "workstations". It's merely semantics, but the main difference is that the workstation probably only runs a few applications. Applications that could be replaced with free and open source ones. That is easy. The hard part was replacing games. :P

Append:

Once Linux is running in the homes users will get used to it. Suddenly the switch at work won't be so daunting or scary. Progressively it will become ideal to switch the work machines over too.

Append:

With regards to support, that is mostly a virtual promise in the Windows world anyway. Unless you're a big player spending 5 or 7 figures on licensing you aren't likely to get much in the way of support. Resources are limited. The downside is that a proprietary vendor actually prevents you from hiring anybody else to fix a problem or add a feature, or doing it yourself, for that matter. An open source one encourages you to fix it yourself if you want to, or find a better price for the support. It also encourages problems to be found and fixed sooner. It's basically all win for business to change to open source. Change is never free, but in the long term it will be better for the whole planet.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Nvidia killed support for 4 monitors in Linux because Windows couldn't do it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-linux-basemosaic-ubuntu-parity,24519.html

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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The only reason they got somewhat decent multi monitor support on nvidia cards to begin with was because of windows 7 requiring some extra features. They claimed they couldn't implement XRandR 1.2+ properly due to a lacking kernel feature. Turns out, no, they were just being stupid, and didn't want to do the work required unless windows wanted the same feature set.

If you want better multi (3+) display support you go intel or amd, period. NVidia's has always been a rather large joke. Sadly at the moment, nvidia has smoother 2-3 display gaming support. But AMD is working on its (driver) issues with frame timing.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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they couldn't implement XRandR 1.2+ properly due to a lacking kernel feature.

I thought hardware drivers ran in ring 0? In other words, they could do whatever they wanted, no need to rely on the kernel.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I thought hardware drivers ran in ring 0? In other words, they could do whatever they wanted, no need to rely on the kernel.

Exactly. Their excuse was that they needed some kind of open kernel api to get things to behave properly. I can't remember the exact thing they were looking for.. But it sounded like an excuse to me.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Nvidia killed support for 4 monitors in Linux because Windows couldn't do it.

Disgusting. type568 feels good for never buying a windows licence.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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type568 said:

Disgusting. type568 feels good for never buying a windows licence.

Except by using Windows, even without buying it, you're still showing application developers that writing only for Windows is a viable option. Third-party developers don't care if you buy Windows, they care that they can spend less time worrying about portability.

So in effect, you're still helping Microsoft.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I know I do :(
But due to above stated state of things I can't just transition to Linux.

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