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Google pulls the curtain on a5teroids
Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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So, a5teroids (one of the Allegro 5 demos) has been on Google Play for a month or two now... but today I got an email saying it's been suspended because of ALLEGED trademark infringement. No surprise, it's Atari claiming this.

There's no doubt that the games are similar... but how ridiculous is this? As far as I'm aware a trademark is a name or image. Atari owns the trademark of the name "Astroids". So what qualifies as infringment? Asteroids are such an obvious target for games... I don't know how they can pull this over (for like 30 years now) and why google bends over for them.

What do you think about it? Should any game with a name resembling "Astroids" be illegal? Again, Google admits themselves that the infringement is only ALLEGED, yet they still stop the game from being download. And for the record, the game was free.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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You could try rereleasing it as 4ndr0iD, maybe they'll think it's so funny they'll let it pass ;D

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Yeah, I don't think I can do anything with it without Atari's approval. Atari has to send Google a message giving the Ok. Retarded.

NOTE: It is "Asteroids" that Atari owns the trademark for not "Astroids".

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

If it's just about the name, then why not simply change it to Meteors or something? Perhaps "Flying Space Rocks 2000" or "Super Space Rock X-4 Fun Time Go!".

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Well I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I think it's about. That's what a trademark is right? (serious question)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Luiji99 said:

"Super Space Rock X-4 Fun Time Go!".

Make that "Super Space Rock X-4 Fun Time Go! Alpha Extreme vs. Capcom". And I'm all for it.

That's what a trademark is right? (serious question)

Yup, if its Atari, and its A5steroids, then yes, its about the name. Probably in combination with the game play. If you had a game that was completely unlike Asteroids in every way, you could probably get away with it, but they'd probably send a takedown anyhow.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

You trademark words, that I know. I think you can also trademark logos (a bit more generalized than copyrights in such a case) but I doubt that's the problem. Anything else would be a copyright or patent issue.

A5teroids looks "stunningly" like Asteroids, and they could argue in court (hypothetically, not like you'll get there) that the similarity is intended to be unclear as to confuse consumers. Since the whole point of trademark is to avoid confusing consumers, they have appropriate grounds.

So says the legal hobbyist, though. Also I only know about United States trademark, copyright and patent laws. Other countries are out of my range.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/609540/947310#target

I agree with Luigi99. In fact, I find nothing ludicrous about the claim of infringement.

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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Yhea, I remembered you had a similar problem with Apple. Thanks for posting that info Trent.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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A bit like microsfot.com, etc.

It's just a demo, call it 'A5 Steroids' or maybe 'A5 Shooting rocks'

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

Let's see the cup as half-full and turn this into a thread for name ideas.

  • A5 Many Rocks A5 You Can Handle

  • A5under (because it means "into separate parts; in or into pieces," and that already covers 75% of the original design document for Asteroids)

  • A5S-TEARING-ROIDS, because that's actually what hemorrhoids literally do.

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

  • Holy Shit Space Rocks

  • Space Rock Mountain (Now with Less Mountain!)

  • All Space Rocks Must Explode

  • Space Rock Attack Force Alpha-9 Play

  • Comets/Comet5

  • R O C K S

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I find nothing ludicrous about the claim of infringement

You find nothing wrong with trademarking the word "asteroids"? I think I'll trademark "teh" and then when people spell it "the" their ass is grass.

EDIT: I think the stupidest part is, all Atari had to do was submit a CLAIM, and also to get the game back in the store ATARI has to approve it. WTF?!

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

I'm fairly sure the trademark Asteroids applies exclusively to games. In such a case, I think it's a reasonable way of preventing consumer confusion.

Most (if not all) trademarks are context-sensitive.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I still think it's ridiculous. It's like trademarking "Racing" or something. It's an obvious target for games.

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Yes, and "Monster" is such a complicated title? Would you be bothered if I released a game titled "Mon5ter" and made in a JRPG?

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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No I wouldn't.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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There are limits to trademarks. But in this case both the gameplay and the name are too close to a long held well protected trademark. They have to enforce it or they lose the right to protect it.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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The only title I'd be upset about someone using is "Monster RPG 3".

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Mon5ter JRPG 1

So far you're displaying less sensitivity to most corporations, which I commend you for.

The problem with trademarks, though, is that it's all about prevent consumers from being tricked into purchasing one product thinking that it's another. Asteroids might not be a particularly original name, but it's a name everybody associates with one game from one company and, as such, it's in the interests of both the corporation and consumer that this arrangement is not permitted.

I had problems typing that. It made me feel too capitalistic for my liking...

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Sure, ok... I guess I can agree to that. But why is Atari the judge and jury? That's the really f'ed up part... If I change the name and say "Hey Atari, I changed the name so it no longer infringes!", I highly suspect to get no response or "the gameplay is the same" which can't be trademarked, but try explaining that to them...

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I don't have too much problem with Trademarks, for the most part they have been handled well to my knowledge. Unlike the patent and copyright systems.

Maybe its because its so easy for the companies to lose their trademarks. I dunno.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

I think copyrights are fairly well implemented, though too easy to abuse. Patents get really shitty really fast. MPEG can bite itself.

I also agree that Google's being a little shit by letting Atari control the situation. It's like they're trying to say that big corporations are the legal enforcers of the world and not the courts. At the very least, it should be Google who makes these judgments.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Wow, they failed miserably. It seems, though, that Microsoft is much more likely to loose in court than most corporations.

<insert conspiracy theory here>

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.



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