Any gun or religion thread will get to full steam. We haven't done the "nanny state overseeing your every action" yet (while taking all your money) but maybe we can still avoid it to prevent all the internet pipes from overheating with excessive posts and contributing further to global warming.

I wasn't trying to make a case for gun control. I was only saying that what worries some people about loose gun laws is the increased probability of dumbasses shooting up eachother and possibly some bystanders without having any premediated intent to murder. To be honest, I think it's a valid concern. It's known that normal people are actually pretty hesitant to kill, even during war. Even if someone points a gun at you, it's more likely an assertion of power than a preparation to kill you. The problem is that you can't know that for sure, so if you also own a gun, you are likely to draw it and actually increase the chances of you, them or bystanders getting shot. Like you said, a person needs to feel in control of their own fate. People would rather take their chances with self-defense than assume that the other guy does not intend to actually kill them. If I could, I would buy a gun myself. Yet, I can contemplate the possibility of loose gun laws resulting in more people getting shot in the long run.

Either way, I still find it absolutely hillarious and kind of scary that the gun nut in the aforementioned blog thinks that this particular Toys-R-Us shootout story makes a case for guns.

I don't understand this logic. Assuming more people with guns increases your chances of getting shot, you'll just have both cars and guns to worry about. Besides, the main purpose of cars isn't killing things. Most people do just fine without a gun but need a car.

It probably would decrease the number of muggers\rapists\asshats but not eliminate them. It would also increase the chances that the ones that are left will threaten you with a gun rather than a knife and end up shooting you when you threaten them. The pro-guns people just assume the net result will be a crime-free society. The anti-guns people just assume the net result will be shoot-outs everywhere. As for me, I just don't know. How do you propose to estimate how it's going to play out in the long run?

Do you mean that as in "I want it to start swinging to the right" or as in "let's agree that the outcome of changing the gun laws is unpredictable"?

The punishment for using a gun improperly is usually being dead.

So, what do you think is inappropriate usage; and what should the punishment be?

For example, is it ok to carry a gun into a public place; in a street, in a supermarket, in a school? Is that all cool? Is it ok to brandish a gun in those places as long as it isn't fired? Is it ok to threaten someone with a gun? Is it ok to shoot someone in self defence? -- And if that's ok, where should we draw the line for "self defence"? For example, in the story mentioned earlier about the shooting in the Toys-R-Us store, presumably those people fired because they felt threatened. Does that count as self defence?

Then there's the part where it says that according to eye-witness accounts, one of the men drew a gun after the woman with him got into a bloody brawl with another woman. Doesn't sound gang-related to me. The usual reason the police would not answer a question like that is that they can neither reliably confirm nor deny it.

I doubt that he was actually intending to shoot in the direction of the two women fighting, if only because he could hit his own wife\girlfriend. It just didn't occur to him that the other guy might also have a gun and perceive him as a deadly threat.

We are talking about a guy who tried to break up a cat-fight by threatening with a gun! It's a very generous assumption that people like that would stop and consider the possibility that the other woman might have a husband who happens to carry a gun, even if guns were more common.

Most people have the sense to not draw a gun in a toy store to break up a catfight. What's your point?

[EDIT]

Well, I kind of get your point, but you're just assuming that if gun laws were more loose, people carrying guns in a toy store would be as common as cars that can run you over on the road.

Yeah, a forum full of "nobody's" (compared to senators) debating topics that government have been debating for 20+ years now with no agreement. Everyone has their own point of view on both and no one will change that so they start bringing up points for or against it according to their opinion on it. I'm neutral on guns when I think about it because I've been on both sides of it and seen that the outcome is negative in regards to guns. Religion on the other hand I don't care about as it is just a construct of man. I mean God is "all knowing, all powerful, and against homosexuality" so why does He allow them to be born knowing they will become what he is against? The one I love is what George Carlin points out, He has a list of 10 things you are not to do. If you do any of those 10 things, He will send you to a special place where you will burn, suffer, be tortured for all eternity, but He loves you. Won't touch a guy being followed around by a group of men and a prostitute. Then you get the other religions that have odd beginnings like that. Even Religions that say there is no God or worship Satan.

Depends, a lot of stories popping up about people losing limbs or getting life threatening infections from wounds. I remember reading a woman had cut her index finger with a cleaned knife, and a few days later had lost her entire arm and shoulder due to flesh eating bacteria that had somehow got into the wound. With all the bacteria we have, anything is possible .

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Uhm, that interpretation makes no sense:

While I would say the statements are purposefully exaggerated to maximize effect, he's obviously referring to pacifism or non-violence at some level.