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Why I am a Pirate ! |
axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001
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type568 said: If Bob decides he isn't willing to pay. No, no, and no! There is no such thing as "if Bob is willing to pay or not". Bob is obliged to pay, by law. Paying for a product is not voluntary. Quote: Did I steal the game from whoever has published it? You stole the profit from the vendor of said game. If you wanted to see the game, you should have bought it. If you didn't think the price is right, you shouldn't have bought it, or download it. You have no right to access the game if you didn't pay for it, unless the game's creator gives that right to you. Arvidsson said: If there is no purchase, no exchange of anything, then the individual is NOT a customer. You may call that person something else, pirate, thief or whatever, but not a customer, not a possible customer nor a lost customer. There is no solid evidence that things that are downloaded would instead be bought if it would be impossible to acquire them otherwise. Being a customer is not voluntary. Once you use something, you are a customer, because you are actually using the product. There is no such thing as "if I was willing to pay". Quote: Anecdotally and from studies by companies like the BSA, it's clear that pirates for the most part have very little income. That's no excuse for piracy. You don't like the price? then don't play the game. It's that simple. |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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axilmar said: You have no right to access the game if you didn't pay for it, unless the game's creator gives that right to you. Well, I think I do. Is it legal? I guess not. Is it immoral? It's fine for me. Did the author lose anything? No, he didn't.
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AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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type568 said: Did I steal the game from whoever has published it? Yes, you have. For that kind of stuff exist Demos, and if it doesn't exist then see: trailers, gameplays, images or play it in a videogame shop. Imagine that everything could be pirated... This society wouldn't be as we know it... Luis: "Hey Bob, and that Ferrari?" The works is done by Italians but the money goes to China... Luis: "Damn... Bob, how much did cost you this mansion?" It's not only you're stealing someone's else work, in the media industry you're giving it for free!, practically you're killing the industry. Just "because you wasn't going to buy it anyway"... Then don't use it mother fucker!.
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Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004
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axilmar said: Once you use something, you are a customer. I can write things in bold too: Once you use something, you are a consumer. How is this? My friend buys a gift for me, he is a customer. He gives me the gift for free. I am using that gift, I'm a consumer. Am I customer? NO! Because I didn't pay anything for it. Quote: That's no excuse for piracy. Where are they excusing anything? In the article it's pretty obvious they are trying to understand the reasons behind piracy and perhaps also the real effects of it. So, there. Now I give up.
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I can't see any parallels. Well I can, but they're really flawed. I certainly DO NOT understand in what aspect/manner whatsoever did I hurt the industry. I should've watched videos or downloaded a demo? Probably.. But why bother with a demo if I can get the full thing a lot simpler in a standard interface, instead of browsing the web for websites I don't know(I just wouldn't bother for that either).
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AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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type568 said: I certainly DO NOT understand in what aspect/manner whatsoever did I hurt the industry. We all know that from "Most likely I'll never launch it again, and it'll be either uninstalled or lost when I change a PC/OS" and "I'll play it but don't buy it because it doesn't deserve it" there is a very very thin line. You couldn't do this with a house or a car, if you can't buy it, then you can't have it, what makes you think it could be different with music, video-games, etc...? "Oh no wait, I'm going to use your Ferrari but since I don't intend to buy it there is no problem ok?, after I use it I'll give you back." After three years... "I don't like the color and the engine it's no like a Maclaren so take it I don't want it." How easy would it be the life...
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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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My point from the first page stands; if someone has provided something that has value to you, you should compensate the people who created it. If nothing else, they might not in the future ... basic civility, that. type568 said: I certainly DO NOT understand in what aspect/manner whatsoever did I hurt the industry. Ignorance is generally considered a poor defense; you may want to rework it ... -- |
Don Freeman
Member #5,110
October 2004
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What about if you go to a bar to see a local band that plays music that you like maybe some Tool, God Smack, or Korn (anything, but you get the idea), do you consider them to be "pirates" because they are playing music created by someone else? Just wondering on how you would feel about the subject...seems like everyone has a differing view about what is really considered copyright infringement and what the law actually says is copyright infringement. -- |
Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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And why when I eat food that I've paid for, do I have to give 10% to the restaurant/waiters just because they don't get paid enough. That's not my issue, I don't give the ice-cream seller an extra few pence because he handed me a mr whippy. And I really detest places that add an automatic service charge. No idea what this has to do with piracy really, just thought I'd bring it up in the subject of paying for goods. Neil. wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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AMCerasoli said: We all know that from "Most likely I'll never launch it again, and it'll be either uninstalled or lost when I change a PC/OS" and "I'll play it but don't buy it because it doesn't deserve it" there is a very very thin line. Well, perhaps. I'll agree that I'll be done something immoral if I actually play it, but the odds are that I won't.. Not first & not last game I tried out this way. Vast majority were downloaded and were not ever even tried & were deleted to free up hundreds of gigabytes. This one I did try out cos' a friend of mine had suggested me to have a look at the graphic. I find the rest of your post irrelevant. 23yrold3yrold said: My point from the first page stands; if someone has provided something that has value to you, you should compensate the people who created it. If nothing else, they might not in the future ... basic civility, that. I agree, mostly. But I don't like where todays border is, what I do like however is lack of enforcement, and inability of enforcement to enforce some of these laws. What's enforced is more than enough for the industries to function however. Example where copyright is justified in my eyes: Two examples of not justified copyrighting: My answer to first(strict border): this border is result of a conflict of freedom and greed of copyright owners. I doubt you support the laws that actually sparked the thread, but there are those wanted these laws. So there's no strict border, everyone decides them for himself(or it's decided for various persons by other persons). My answer to second(author's right to decide): Second example of "bad" copyrighting, is a commonly ranted topic: Edit: various grammar..
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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Don Freeman said: What about if you go to a bar to see a local band that plays music that you like maybe some Tool, God Smack, or Korn (anything, but you get the idea), do you consider them to be "pirates" because they are playing music created by someone else? Those bars are supposed to pay a fee to various PROs if they allow people to play cover songs, just as Youtube pays for people who perform online. Playing at home in a non-public fashion is considered fair-use. It's arbitrary, but generally speaking it makes sense in that it attempts to prevent people from profitting off another person's copyrighted work. |
AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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type568 said: If you live in India, China, or in Russia somewhere away of a big city- you can't afford to buy it, hence you "can't" use it cos' you're poor, although nobody would be harmed if you pirate it(as you're not potential customer). You're pretty ignorant man... Practically you're saying poor people has the right to steal. Those people download pirated software because THEY CAN, not "because they're poor, and won't hurt the industry..." Yeah right... I want to see some of those people steeling a car to see what happens. Offer people something free or something which cost money, let's see what they're going to grab... And even worse the people of those countries you have mentioned, I'm pretty sure the word "steal" is nothing new to them... What kind of idiot do you take me for?, clothes don't make the man...
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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AMCerasoli said: You're pretty ignorant man... Practically you're saying poor people has the right to steal. They don't steal anything as the author doesn't lose anything. The owner doesn't lose anything if they use the content free of charge. The example aximilar provided few posts ago, regarding why is piracy a theft doesn't apply if the consumer is not a potential customer. If the in either case CAN NOT buy it, the WILL NOT buy it. They're not providing any cash to the author in either case. However, they can still use it. Comparison with real theft of property is absolutely irrelevant here. I "think" you're stupid if you do not understand it
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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type568 said: The example aximilar provided few posts ago, regarding why is piracy a theft doesn't apply if the consumer is not a potential customer.
Seriously? You're all going to split hairs about the difference between a consumer and a customer? If you 'consume' something, generally, you're expected to pay for it in some manner (which makes you a customer), except for things like free meals at the salvation army. You're just a bunch of flippin free loaders. People who jack cars were never going to pay for them, so by all of your logic, it isn't theft. Get real. My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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type568 said: I "think" you're stupid if you do not understand it "I think" you want to see the world at your convenience... But always keep in mind that downloading pirate content is illegal on the off-chance that you end up believing yourself and end up in jail
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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Edgar Reynaldo said: You're just a bunch of flippin free loaders. That's basically what a pirate is, yes ... -- |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Edgar Reynaldo said: People who jack cars were never going to pay for them, so by all of your logic, it isn't theft. Get real. This is theft because the owner losses his car, duh. By my logic theft is the case in which the owner losses something. No loss(lost gain is a loss as well) no theft.
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I used to commute quite a ways to work several years ago, and there was a guy who lived directly on the route. He figured he didn't have to pay me anything since I was going that way anyway, but after I waved as I passed him one day brought him around to my point of view. This is a much better analogy than if he'd forced me to a stop somehow and threw me out of the car and drove to work by himself. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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It maybe agreed that he pays you, it maybe agreed the other way. I never paid to various people I knew for a ride, nor am I asking cash if I drive someone by my way. I don't claim either of the stances is the right one, however I'm sure both have the right to exist.
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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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23yrold3yrold said: My point from the first page stands; if someone has provided something that has value to you, you should compensate the people who created it. If nothing else, they might not in the future ...
Arthur Kalliokoski said: I used to commute quite a ways to work several years ago, and there was a guy who lived directly on the route. He figured he didn't have to pay me anything since I was going that way anyway, but after I waved as I passed him one day brought him around to my point of view. Ah, real world examples ... -- |
Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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When people sell goods and services, they set a price for that service. It's their service / good, they have the right to charge what they see fit for it. If you don't agree to their price, and you obtain that product without their permission, it is theft, plain and simple. Pirated games / software / music are all profit to the person pirating them (regardless of the cost of the chosen media of distribution). Therefore, value WAS TAKEN. Why doesn't that make sense to any of you? My Website! | EAGLE GUI Library Demos | My Deviant Art Gallery | Spiraloid Preview | A4 FontMaker | Skyline! (Missile Defense) Eagle and Allegro 5 binaries | Older Allegro 4 and 5 binaries | Allegro 5 compile guide |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Edgar Reynaldo said: When people sell goods and services, they set a price for that service. It's their service / good, they have the right to charge what they see fit for it. If you don't agree to their price, and you obtain that product without their permission, it is theft, plain and simple.
It's how you think it is. Others may disagree. I do not. I prefer this definition: when the owner of an item losses something as consequence of actions of the thief, it is theft. No loss no theft, plain & simple Quote: Pirated games / software / music are all profit to the person pirating them (regardless of the cost of the chosen media of distribution). Therefore, value WAS TAKEN. Why doesn't that make sense to any of you? Yes, they are profit. But in case of no loss to the owner, it's not theft and is, therefore okay in my eyes. Regardless of the law.
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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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type568, why are you even discussing this? Your attitude is obviously "fuck everything, I do what I feel like". We saw the Simpsons episode; we get it. -- |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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It's not my point of view. I agree I should buy the game if really play it.
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AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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Poor little cat...
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