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Is A4 abandoned?
Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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I don't frequent these forums very often(I mean the Allegro Development forum), but after reading A4 development/support related threads, the lack of answers (or the answers itself) makes me think that A4 is going to be abandoned(or it already was?), so is this official then? I mean is A4 abandoned?

I'm asking this because A4 became part of my 'engine' and before continuing with the development of this 'engine' perhaps I should work in the process of removing A4 and replace it whit something else.

Thanks.

____

"The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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It is not officially abandoned as anybody can write bug fixes for Allegro 4.4 and submit them. But all of the core developers have moved on to Allegro 5.

You could replace your A4 code with Allegro 5.

kazzmir
Member #1,786
December 2001
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I still support A4 in my engine but honestly SDL + various sdl libraries is generally a better choice than A4. The only advantage of A4 over SDL is that A4's stretch blit is much faster than anything in SDL (although you could port the A4 stretcher to SDL I guess).

And of course if your graphical effects can be done by opengl/directx then A5 is a good choice too.

Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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You could replace your A4 code with Allegro 5.

That would make not sense, I mean, my 'engine' uses A4 'only' for sound, input, and special file format loading routines, I'm writting the graphic core myself for OGL and D3D, so this is why A4 was useful for me.

I think replacing A4 with A5 only for the afformentioned tasks would be overkill.

____

"The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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How is it overkill? Allegro 4 has more unneeded functionality than Allegro 5 has.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Isn't A5 more modular than A4? It would technically make it less overkill ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
avatar

How is it overkill? Allegro 4 has more unneeded functionality than Allegro 5 has.

Yes? so you say using A5 and by-passing the graphic core with my own OGL/D3D code wouldn't be a bad idea? then, perhaps I should give it a try.

____

"The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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You can set the flags ALLEGRO_DIRECT3D or ALLEGRO_OPENGL to require that Allegro give you a valid context/device to work with.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Basically Allegro 5 is a super-charged glut. You get window setup, input, threads, unicode support, file system stuff, and you can use GL/D3D directly, bypassing Allegro's graphical stuff.

It's really a win/win. Especially if you pick OpenGL. You get platform independence for free.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
avatar

Thomas, your marketing skills are awesome!, as much as I hate to admit it, I knew since the beginning that sooner or later I would end switching to A5 :P

____

"The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Thomas, your marketing skills are awesome!

I just really like Allegro 5. Allegro 3/4 was great in its day. It helped me learn C. I just can't stand to work on the A4 codebase anymore. I think Elias, Evert and Peter would agree.

We'll still apply patches and fixes, and occasionally new features/ports if people submit them, but for the most part its in maintenance mode.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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You can't see it, but right now Edgar is crying... Don't worry my friend A4 it's going to live forever.......................... Inside a Museum of course... hohohohoh...

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Don't worry your pretty little head AMCerasoli, I don't cry just because someone stops using Allegro 4. Also, Allegro 4 doesn't stop being useful just because Allegro 5 is useful now.

Furthermore, after I'm done using Allegro 4, I may decide to use the SimpleFastMultimediaLibrary instead of Allegro 5. It looks like it supports everything that Allegro 5 supports except for Direct3D, and also supports capturing audio and basic networking with FTP and HTTP. Furthermore, it's in C++ and you don't have to dick around with create and destroy functions anymore because the objects manage their own memory. So don't cry over me AMCerasoli.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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it's in C++ and you don't have to dick around with create and destroy functions anymore because the objects manage their own memory

so that's what it is I'm doing!

Paul whoknows
Member #5,081
September 2004
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Edgar, I was also thinking in SFML as a replacement for A4, I'm really open to suggestions now, why you (like me ;D) refuse to use A5? why do you think SFML would be a better alternative than A5?

By the way, SDL is not an option for license related stuffs.

____

"The unlimited potential has been replaced by the concrete reality of what I programmed today." - Jordan Mechner.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I think he doesn't like A5 because you have to link more than 1 library. Using sfml will save dozens of man seconds per millenia.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I think he doesn't like A5 because you have to link more than 1 library. Using sfml will save dozens of man seconds per millenia.

Instead of being one big API, SFML rather contains a lot of small packages, that can be chosen and combined according to the intended usage. You can use only the base package to get input and windowing, as well as the full graphics package with sprites and post-effects. [1]

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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SFML is modular too. The biggest difference is that it's C++. If you like C++ and like SFML's design, then that's probably sufficient reason to use it.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Ok, then I have no idea. I thought Edgar was fiercly opposed to the modular design of A5.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Thanks for putting words in my mouth Trent. No, I don't like having to link ten different libraries at a time when it should be a single library. SFML is the same way though, they're modular as well.

@Paul
I never said I refuse to use Allegro 5, in fact I've been learning it along with everyone else here, and helping other people learn to use it too. But SFML has been looking like a good alternative to Allegro 5 since I started looking at it. It's something to consider after all.

@Trent
"Fiercely opposed", no. Moderately annoyed, yes. Modularity has it's benefits, but there's also no reason allegro's build system can't support a monolith build for those who appreciate it's convenience. Yes, do it yourself if you want it, blah blah. If I ever get serious about using A5 in a project, I will probably build a static monolith for personal use using ar. The main reason multiple modules bother me is because it makes it harder to work with an SVN version when there are features I want to add / bugs I want to help fix.

Edit
One thing it looks like SFML lacks though is the ability to draw onto an Image object. You can only draw on a RenderWindow and Copy from the Screen onto an Image.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
avatar

Thanks for putting words in my mouth Trent.

Well, everything you said confirms, so you're welcome I guess.

I've been using "A5" svn since 4.9.0 in commercial games so I'm not sure what the problems are you're referring to.

Quote:

One thing it looks like SFML lacks though is the ability to draw onto an Image object. You can only draw on a RenderWindow and Copy from the Screen onto an Image.

That's a pretty huge limitation if you ask me. :o

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

You enjoy linking 10 different libraries, good for you. Have fun. It's bothersome to have to set the same giant set of dependencies up just for simple test projects, whether it's a Code Blocks project, or a makefile, or compiling on the command line. There's no reason a monolith build can't be provided for those who wish to use it. But the Allegro developers don't care about their users, they only care about how they will use it, which is fine, it's their project, whatever.

That's a pretty huge limitation if you ask me.

Maybe, but all it really means is you have to draw everything over again each frame, and with hwaccel that doesn't mean much. With complex games you pretty much have to do a full redraw anyway. And it may be an easy enough change anyway. All you would have to do is derive Image from RenderTarget and overload the necessary functions.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Does SFML also have a monolith build? If not, it may be worse than A5.

But seriously, worrying about a couple extra libs to link is weird. What does it matter?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

If windows history worked right it wouldn't be a problem.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

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