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Uh-Oh, here comes a God vs Science thread
Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Edit: debate ended, at least for me. ;)

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“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Neil Roy said:

Everything about us screams intelligent design, more complex than any machine we can create.

Doesn't this say that we can't create complex machines? (yet) Until the 1950's, science couldn't synthesize table sugar either. And I can't hear the "screams" of intelligent design.

[EDIT]

Then who created this god? It implies some sort of meta-god, does it not? And then it begs the question of who created the meta-god. If you say "god just is" then you're falling into the trap of truth by assertion.

[EDIT for Neil Roy's edit]

Quote:

For example, if you don't have eyes, and don't know light exists, how do you go about evolving an eye to see it? Wait millions of years, but my lifespan isn't that long... as you can see (pun alert) evolution IS a religion without any facts (or even logic) to back it up.

You know how the infrared sensing "pits" in a pit viper work? You can feel the heat of the sun beating on your skin? It doesn't take much imagination to narrow the aperture of the "pit" (becoming more like a pinhole camera) along with mutations that make the light sensing cells more sensitive to allow for the reduced light of the smaller aperture.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Edit: debate ended, at least for me. ;)

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

Edit: debate ended, at least for me. ;)

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Neil Roy said:

So you don't know the details, you just believe in it blindly? :)

I use Occam's Razor to cut out the bullshit. Basically, it says the simpler explanation is the most likely. Sweeping generalizations about god's power don't fit "simple explanation".

[EDIT]

I was wrong in this respect.

Quote:

The principle is often inaccurately summarized as "the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one". This summary is misleading, however, since the principle is actually focused on shifting the burden of proof in discussions.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Neil Roy said:

So you don't know the details, you just believe in it blindly? :)

I don't pray to it or give it money on Sundays. I believe that it sufficiently explains our existence. I'm not religiously linked to the idea. I'm not a scientist so it's not my job or interest to study it. I also don't consider it very important for my life; at least not directly. That is, I'd much rather write code, play video games, or watch TV than read scientific journals. It's good for humanity as a whole to understand as much as we can, but it isn't necessary for each of us to understand the minuscule details of the science behind it.

Most people don't need to know it in their everyday life. It doesn't matter much where we came from (assuming the Bible is bullshit). Each of our lives are insignificant to the big picture. People should live their lives and enjoy them. If studying scientific journals is fun then go for it. If studying the Bible is fun then go for it. If playing video games and drinking beer is fun then go for it. :) Some people find joy in pushing the boundaries of science and that's great. It doesn't mean all atheists have to be scientists to justify their lack of belief in any deities. ::)

I don't take evolution blindly. I understand it on a simple scale. High school science classes gave me a sufficient understanding to comprehend what evolution is and why it occurs. It makes sufficient sense to me. It makes a lot more sense than the Bible does. I don't define myself by my beliefs in science though. As a matter of fact, I'm usually only an atheist when I'm debating with religious people (or making fun of them :-X). I'm just a computer programmer when I'm not. :o

William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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Neither darwin or religion seem to be adequate to explain our origins.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Neither darwin or religion seem to be adequate to explain our origins.

We have a new smartest post in the thread.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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And maybe we'll never know. What a boring world it would be if everything was known!

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Neither darwin or religion seem to be adequate to explain our origins.

Once again, Darwin is well over 100 years ago, so you're looking at some very outdated science... :-/ Science may never fully explain everything, but that's no reason to stop trying to explain what we can... It explains a lot, which BTW is what brings this community together at all. ::) Religion doesn't really explain anything. It just calls it a black box and calls it a day. How original.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

Religion doesn't really explain anything. It just calls it a black box and calls it a day. How original.

Do I have your permission to sig that?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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William Labbett said:Neither darwin or religion seem to be adequate to explain our origins.
We have a new smartest post in the thread.

I was merely quoting to something this guy http://www.barrylong.org/ said.

bamccaig said:

Once again, Darwin is well over 100 years ago, so you're looking at some very outdated science...

The vailidity of Darwin's theories doesn't change simply because it's old anymore than a Pythagoras' theorem is getting outdated.

Quote:

Science may never fully explain everything, but that's no reason to stop trying to explain what we can... It explains a lot, which BTW is what brings this community together at all. ::)

I wasn't saying that science is no good to us, just that it doesn't help in terms of self-knowledge.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I wasn't saying that science is no good to us, just that it doesn't help in terms of self-knowledge.

It's a little too close to ourselves to look at it objectively.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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I was merely quoting to something this guy http://www.barrylong.org/ said.

Nothing new has been said in this thread, so whatever. :)

Quote:

The vailidity of Darwin's theories doesn't change simply because it's old anymore than a Pythagoras' theorem is getting outdated.

To be fair, the theories have developed a lot since then. Like, a lot lot.

bamccaig said:

Religion doesn't really explain anything.

Is there a religion that posits "explanation" as its primary purpose? Or is this still that belief that religion is the old science?

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Is there a religion that posits "explanation" as its primary purpose?

What other purposes does religion have? Other than allowing the ruling class to retain power?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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What other purposes does religion have?

Depends on the religion. Enlightenment, salvation, karma, reincarnation, power ... what do they say?

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

Depends on the religion. Enlightenment, salvation, karma, reincarnation, power ... what do they say?

Enlightened people have an explaination of sorts.
Salvation: What happens to me after I die?
karma: Why can't I get girls? I'm a nice guy?
Reincarnation: See Salvation
power: human instinct, not religion.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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What other purposes does religion have? Other than allowing the ruling class to retain power?

This is ridiculous. I'm 'religious' and I'm not in the ruling class, nor does it give me power over people. Nor do I follow Christianity to achieve either of those aims.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Really? Is meditation a religion then? What about forgiveness? Redemption? What about non-religious grounds for belief in things like karma?

You're either trolling or really reaching to justify your own beliefs ...

This is ridiculous.

We've been in the realm of "ridiculous" for a while now ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

This is ridiculous. I'm 'religious' and I'm not in the ruling class, nor does it give me power over people. Nor do I follow Christianity to achieve either of those aims.

I meant the ruling class uses it to get people to do what the ruling class wants. "Divine right" and all that.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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What other purposes does religion have? Other than allowing the ruling class to retain power?

The Book of Eli is a good movie that demonstrates this.

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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The Book of Eli is a good movie that demonstrates this.

At the end of the movie, you learn that Eli is blind and had the entire Bible memorized.

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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At the end of the movie, you learn that Eli is blind and had the entire Bible memorized.

HE WAS NOT BLIND.

THIS IS A COMMON MISCONCEPTION.

ELI WAS NOT BLIND.

ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS.
;)

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"No amount of prayer would have produced the computers you use to spread your nonsense." Arthur Kalliokoski



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