I just want to say I apologize if I offended anyone. I stand by my beliefs 100%. I may not be able to articulate them in a forum very well, and many of them I would have to write a novel of text to explain properly, and I am not willing to do that. Short explanations without other details that would take too long to explain usually leaves me wide open for attack. Actually people that don't believe will never accept what you say, which is why it is pointless to argue.

I have seen several comments here I want to respond to SO BADLY it hurts, but, I'll force myself to shut up this time as I hate discussing my beliefs and this has helped remind me why.

Again, sorry for any misunderstandings, insults etc... one thing I do wish to respond to, I NEVER mock anyone... ever... nor do I troll, that isn't who I am. I'm no good at discussing these things though, I have a difficult time putting how I feel into words so that you can firmly understand where I am coming from, and often times it's an impossible task when you're dealing with someone who just doesn't want to believe or they have other doctrines they firmly believe in that differ from your own.

My best advice if you are serious about learning, read it yourself, then if someone mocks your beliefs, change the subject.

I'll probably stick around here, but for the programming, I'll leave the religious debates to you guys.

This is why my first act was to remove the spirituality and divinity from my post by making it about a video game instruction manual and then later about Frodo, and asking the question again. I'm not sure how much more I could sterilize it ...

I agree with Derezo.

The only reliable solution to such a situation is to have the debate be moderated by someone. In my opinion, anyway.

Yay! Now everything's good forever!

Seriously?
A conservative party logo?

You're begging to be flamed. Their leader is a disgrace to the human race and is what has caused the destruction of our country's sovereignty.

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When he's found guilty of treason, assuming he lives that long, the world will be a happier place.

and a thousand more 's to you.

No, he fixed that up pretty good by playing the piano or some crap.

It's not like the Liberals before him were a positive influence, but this government gets away with so much right out in the open... not that we see that on our government controlled news or anything.

I fixed this for you.

Is that some sort of sick joke? He deserves a life in prison for what he's done with our economy, sovereignty, monetary system, and .. well, everything else he's poisoned.

That is so painful it almost makes me want to puke. After all of the horrible things his party has done to us.

That's just sick. You clearly don't even know what he's responsible for. The Liberals can go to prison with him for all I care, but we don't actually have a two party system like our neighbour, despite the multitude of Canadians who think so. The youth of our nation will rise up against this injustice. Turn off your fucking TV and stop thinking in red and blue.

That's just from some random blog. You cannot talk about government without propaganda coming up, but these things are real problems. I google imaged for the kitten shot mostly.

If you REALLY want to know, you can watch this video or check out what some other party's are saying and see what the problems are in our country. I rather liked these guys when I read about them, and their website has a public forum with some pretty intense videos about what we're facing. Then of course you'll see who caused all of these problems. Liberals and Conservatives are backed entirely by corporate interests and their policy changes reflect that clear as day.

The tax cuts benefit the rich, not the poor.

Remember when Harper did this? You've probably never heard of it. That site is propaganda, the actual agreement is somewhat creepy and makes you wonder.... "Why?", and I'm sure it's available on that site and nobody reading this will read it.

That's a good point 23yrold3yrold... with a minority government he would have to have the support of the other parties to pass anything. So if you want to lay blame, you have to add in the other parties with him. That's the beauty of a minority government, you can't blame them solely.

There's a variety of reasons why I vote conservative. I'm against socialism, I feel it destroys a country. Supporting businesses and corporations helps create jobs, which gets people off the social system, gives them a little self respect and lowers taxes. The less people on the social system, the lower the taxes, the better everyone does. Higher social spending leads to higher taxes which leads to a greater need for social spending, it's a vicious loop.

, I just got thinking, what's a a religious thread without a little political debate?!

Harper has done a nice job, even though I was against him spending those huge sums he spent to help economic recovery, the other parties threatened an election if he didn't, now ironically they will accuse him of spending... ah well.

Essentially. Ever specifically Evert said the premise is absurd. It's only absurd if you take it literally, which, yes, is absurd. That was the supplied context. Perhaps Evert meant something else?

But Evert specifically said he was the one being understood! The implication being that I'm the one not being clear! Stop confusing me!

The problem is that words carry associations with them, the affect at least their perceived meaning.
Originally (way back), "Hades" referred to the "underworld", the place underneat the Earth where the god Hades rules over the souls of the dead. In Hades there were different regions, for instance the Elyssean Fields where those who were noble and virtuous in life went, and the Tartaros, where giants and other monsters were chained up and where those who had been exceptionally cruel in their lifes (or stepped on the toes of the wrong god) underwent fitting punishment (Tantalos is a famous example). This is certainly not synonymous with the conventional Christian concept of hell. This is also something to be extremely careful of when reading early Christian texts written in Greek, or Greek translations of the Old Testament.
The correct translation depends on context, and people did (and do, and will) get this wrong.
So yes, it depends very much on what word you use what other people will think you say.

To give the thread a spin, I'm always annoyed at the scene in the otherwise excellent I, Claudius where Livia tells Claudius that she's afraid she'll be "punished in hell for all eternity" for the bad things she's done. Romans had no concept of hell in this sense, it's a Judeo-Christian thing^[1] and to a large extent a concept from later times. Its use there jars quite badly.

EDIT

I know what he means, that's not the point I'm trying to make. Now how do I know what someone who uses the same word and makes a contradictory statement means?
Are they disagreeing?
Are they agreeing but using a different meaning of the word "omnipotent"?

It's irrelevant which Canadian party is elected. They're all blowing the monopoly guy... Until the people come up with a way to prevent government from getting in bed with business it will always be nothing more than a puppet show.

Derenzo, you assume a lot about me and why I vote for Harper. I actually used to vote Liberal, back in the Cretian days because I thought he was a decent person for the job and I didn't like the conservative person at the time. But with a lot of thought on the subject my mind changed based on my own thoughts on economics and other issues. I have NEVER been convinced to vote one way or another by advertisements or other nonsense I see on TV. IN fact, I spend more time on my computer than I ever will on TV, I can't stand most TV, mostly due to the commercials and other issues.

Don't assume that I have somehow been deceived into voting one way or the other, I have a mind of my own and I use it. Have you ever considered the idea that perhaps you are the one who is being deceived by some of these websites and videos you watch? It is possible you know. I'm not trying to be insulting towards you, but you should consider it and carefully view all the facts, and verify what you have been told, don't just accept it without question.