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A question to all the married men
23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Dunno what to tell ya; XP is my home machine and I'm on Windows 7 here. I could log onto a few more machines from here though. :)

EDIT: Darn; can't get it to register my Mac and my Win7, probably because they're both the same external IP. :(

Also, 200 get.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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.

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Neil Roy said:

I see no problem with this. Light and darkness was created. There are lots of sources for light and darkness in the universe, not just the sun. The sun and moon weren't created until the 4th day, but notice the wording in that verse: "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night"

Ethnic #1: Hey! Those astronauts who flew to the moon got famous! Let's do that for the sun!
Ethnic (with some crude reasoning facilities) #2: You dumbass! If we go to the sun we'll burn up!
Ethnic #1: No, we'll go at night!

Teacher: Which is more important, the sun or the moon?
Ethnic student: The moon is! The moon lights up the night, but the sun's only up when it's already daylight!

Guess which "ethnic" I choose; stone age nomads 4000 years ago...

[EDIT]

Hugo Chavez is right up there at the top for reasoning ability!

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Neil Roy said:

Why then do you feel the need to jump all over someone who believes? You scared they might be right?!

Some atheists struggle to understand why some people partake in such foolishness as believing in such unlikely things as God. And the only way to understand something, is to ask questions and perform experiments.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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SiegeLord said:

Some atheists struggle to understand why some people partake in such foolishness as believing in such unlikely things as God. And the only way to understand something, is to ask questions and perform experiments.

Still can't see past the trolling. These "inconsistencies" have been addressed many, many, MANY times, so the atheists can't be asking very seriously. And I've never heard of an experiment on God, so maybe you can enlighten us there.

Maybe some atheists just like thinking things are foolish and unlikely because it's comfortable to do so? It's a natural human response to embrace what's comfortable, no need to defend it ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

.

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Maybe some atheists just like thinking things are foolish and unlikely because it's comfortable to do so? It's a natural human response to embrace what's comfortable, no need to defend it ...

It's also comfortable to believe "it can't happen to me" (where "it" is a traffic accident or whatever), just don't act like I'm stupid because I don't agree with your implications.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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It's also comfortable to believe "it can't happen to me" (where "it" is a traffic accident or whatever), just don't act like I'm stupid because I don't agree with your implications.

Quite true. Hopefully I haven't acted like anyone was genuinely stupid (if I feel that was I usually just prefer not to bother speaking to them). At least I wasn't as disrespectful as SiegeLord. :)

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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SiegeLord said:

Some atheists struggle to understand why some people partake in such foolishness as believing in such unlikely things as God. And the only way to understand something, is to ask questions and perform experiments.

:) The apostle Paul told me you'd say that.

As for the unlikeliness of God, I tend to think that it's much more unlikely there isn't God. But this argument has been done before so :-/

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Tell me which version of the bible is the truth, then. King James?

23yold3yearold said:

Well, hang on, let's keep this in context of the original discussion before we get too off-track. Which version of the Bible doesn't say that God isn't omnipotent?

Differing versions imply that none of it's correct. Just because some point isn't contradicted isn't a reason to believe that particular point. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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Bible translations is a very interesting topic. Which version is the truth? Probably the first versions that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John (each of them), Paul, David, Salomon, Daniel, Nebachadnezzer, Moses, Jonah, Job, etc. wrote or spoke about. But we don't get THAT version. But I'd gladly take what I can get and pray the Spirit guides me to "the truth" which has yet to turn me wrong (wayward not factually, I can be factually wrong quite frequently :P).

_____________________________________

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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And I've never heard of an experiment on God, so maybe you can enlighten us there.

There's no need. The critical bit of science is that you don't need to test extremely unlikely theories. Anyway, I mostly meant doing experiments on the people who believe in God though (via providing links to fancy websites).

Neil Roy said:

"belief" to me implies

Semantics.

At least I wasn't as disrespectful as SiegeLord. :)

Respect is to be earned :P.

relay01 said:

As for the unlikeliness of God, I tend to think that it's much more unlikely there isn't God. But this argument has been done before so :-/

The only place I can think of where God might be required at all is the Big Bang. Everything else (and I do mean everything else) needs no divine intervention and could have easily (and with extremely high likelihood) arisen via laws known to science today.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Differing versions imply that none of it's correct. Just because some point isn't contradicted isn't a reason to believe that particular point. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Believe what point? That the Bible says God isn't omnipotent? Your analogy might make sense if you could show me a wrong (or "broken") book, but since you can't, the better analogy might be that a working clock is always right?

Quote:

Respect is to be earned :P.

I didn't actually want your respect since I've seen your posts in these topics. I just wanted to flag up that no one could really complain about my attitude as long as you were here. :)

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Neil Roy said:

I have convinced in my own mind, 100% that God does exist. it's no longer a belief, to me, it's a fact.

It is a fact that you also misunderstand the concept of "belief".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief said:

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

Do you know what Anorexia nervosa is?
It is a psychological state. To the people who are affected by it, to their subjective experience, it is often a fact that they are overweight. They go through drastic measures to lose weight or maintain a very low weight.

If there really is a God, and I'm open to the idea that there is, do you really think it would want to be worshiped and prayed to? Wouldn't it want you to follow the path it set our for you by creating you? It would have bigger, more important things to do. That's why it would have made you -- to do whatever it is that you're to do, so it doesn't have to (or because it can't).

..and doing what you have to could very well be arguing about its existence on a forum... but I doubt the whole premise. :-/

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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.

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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SiegeLord said:

Everything else (and I do mean everything else) needs no divine intervention and could have easily (and with extremely high likelihood) arisen via laws known to science today.

Even I take umbrage at the word "easily", though possibilities still seem far into science's court.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Even I take umbrage at the word "easily", though possibilities still seem far into science's court.

Fair enough. How about I say it's extremely likely that everything else can be explained by natural laws known to science today.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Derezo said:

If there really is a God, and I'm open to the idea that there is, do you really think it would want to be worshiped and prayed to? Wouldn't it want you to follow the path it set our for you by creating you? It would have bigger, more important things to do. That's why it would have made you -- to do whatever it is that you're to do, so it doesn't have to (or because it can't).

Well in line with Christian doctrine. I didn't read Neil's wall of text though so I'm not sure what you're responding to. Just wanted to say "well, duh". :)

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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SiegeLord said:

The only place I can think of where God might be required at all is the Big Bang. Everything else (and I do mean everything else) needs no divine intervention and could have easily (and with extremely high likelihood) arisen via laws known to science today.

As for a man who conquered the grave? Speculative? Unverifiable? False? Or the other miracles of Jesus during his ministry?

Derezo said:

If there really is a God, and I'm open to the idea that there is, do you really think it would want to be worshiped and prayed to? Wouldn't it want you to follow the path it set our for you by creating you?

Yes!

_____________________________________

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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relay01 said:

As for a man who conquered the grave? Speculative? Unverifiable? False? Or the other miracles of Jesus during his ministry?

Two points. First, even I believed those things, all I could say is that God existed at some point in time. Second, I don't believe those things actually happened given the available records.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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SiegeLord said:

Two points. First, even I believed those things, all I could say is that God existed at some point in time. Second, I don't believe those things actually happened given the available records.

First: Did you mean "even if"?
Assuming you did mean that, then if you believed he existed for a time, then you'd probably want to listen to what He said. Which would suggest that He "is all that was, is, and yet to come" (paraphrase).

Second: Available records?

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SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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relay01 said:

First: Did you mean "even if"?

Yeah, typo.
EDIT:
Well, I am sort of interested in what he said. I even quoted his bestseller in my sig :P.

Quote:

Second: Available records?

Yeah, whatever they are. I'm serious about this. The God is so unlikely that it'll require extraordinary proof to make it be a hypothesis worthy of consideration. I'd start believing something was odd if there were several videos of something, for example.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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SiegeLord said:

even I believed those things, all I could say is that God existed at some point in time.

Nietzsche: God is dead!
God: Nietzsche is dead!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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SiegeLord said:

Yeah, whatever they are. I'm serious about this. The God is so unlikely that it'll require extraordinary proof to make it be a hypothesis worthy of consideration. I'd start believing something was odd if there were several videos of something, for example.

I don't know if God adheres to the "Pics or it Didn't Happen" principle. ;D

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SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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He really should! It'd make these threads more interesting :P.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]



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