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Mah Sekrit Projact
Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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gnolam said:

I hope that only applies to perishables. From my experiences in other games, having universal time-based item status depreciation is a) annoying and b) (except for special cases) unrealistic.

Well, nothing lasts forever my friend... and to keep such a game balanced, item sinks are absolutely needed, otherwise it's only a matter of time before the economy gets flooded with super-uber-magic swords and instant invulnerability potions. The idea, though, is that many items will rot so slowly that you'll hardly notice. Food will perish quickly, within a few hours to days, things like paper will last for years, and stone and similar things will hardly rot at all.

Trezker said:

Anyway, I came here to say CantrII sent out a mail saying it's coming back!
So it's time to shut down this project, right Mr Dammers?

Apparently, but:

decepto said:

Hi,

Could I have an invite?

Thank you.

Also, I just logged into cantr, and how should I put it, it doesn't feel the same. Even though it doesn't look any different.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

Doesn't matter... Books are passed on so other people will likely read them later on in the game. So it doesn't matter if an individual will play the game for several years or not. :P

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Game-time years. 1 year is 20 earth days. So something that lasts 10 years is gone within less than one earth year. Also, what Vanneto said.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Well, nothing lasts forever my friend... and to keep such a game balanced, item sinks are absolutely needed, otherwise it's only a matter of time before the economy gets flooded with super-uber-magic swords and instant invulnerability potions.

On my desk is an axe head I've been meaning to fit with a new handle. It's good as new. Better, even, as it's an old farmer's axe, manufactured to higher standards than today's disposable tools. It's from... honestly, I don't even know when, I can only guess that the last time it was sharpened was in the 19th century - and it still holds an edge like a bloody razor.
Most things do not rot. Very few things go bad just with age. Constant use will blunt any blade, but even after a few hundred years, a sharp edge will stay sharp. Dig up a flint axe and it's almost as lethal today as it was to its stone age makers thousands of years ago.

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

That may be true, but when was the last time a truly realistic game was any fun at all?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

^ That. Regarding this one, there is the simple fact that if weapons last forever, the game will eventually be flooded with them, and even the best weapon will be abundant. Same for other branches of a tech tree.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
avatar

It's been rather quiet in this thread lately. The news page ingame is also lacking activity.

What's going on?

My characters are making good progress.
The traveller has gone full circle around the island and is now exploring further inland. I think I'm making up rather nice name for places now.
He's gonna want mapping, and then a boat.

I've started a farmer character who found a nice grassland location and has made a wheat field. I a few days I'm hoping to have some bread. I wonder when he will be able to eat it.

The paperpress guy is not doing much anymore I'm afraid. Waiting for paper demand to pick up. If money is implemented he might go for some kind of banking business. This would also require secure storage. He would very much appreciate buildings and rooms with locks.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Trezker said:

The paperpress guy is not doing much anymore I'm afraid. Waiting for paper demand to pick up. If money is implemented he might go for some kind of banking business. This would also require secure storage. He would very much appreciate buildings and rooms with locks.

Are you re-inventing the Federal Reserve?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

My Traveler found a person he bumped into before, and said hi, and is waiting a respond.

My Beggar is just around a group of folk.

And my other dude, I can't remember.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red
If anyone is of the opinion that there is no systemic racism in America, they're either blind, stupid, or racist too. ~Edgar Reynaldo

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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And my other dude, I can't remember.

He's a member of NORML.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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I'm rather interested in seeing a currency getting off the ground.
We probably need a larger playerbase to really make it float.

There's no gold or metals at all in the game yet is there?

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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My guys are all standing around, because I've been too busy to play lately.

>me goes and hops on<

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Regarding this one, there is the simple fact that if weapons last forever, the game will eventually be flooded with them, and even the best weapon will be abundant. Same for other branches of a tech tree.

I have nothing against wear through use, but wear through just time passed (for things that shouldn't rot) is awful, both realism- and gameplay-wise.
If the world is flooded with some kind of item it shouldn't be flooded with (that distinction is necessary), that usually means that the item is A) too easy to make, B) too durable or C) just not in demand (in which case, the in-game market should take care of it eventually). :)

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Trezker said:

It's been rather quiet in this thread lately. The news page ingame is also lacking activity.

What's going on?

Well, cantrII was back up for a while (not responding right now though), which kind of tied up the development team (ahem, me, that is). That, and a rather busy week for me, filled with all sorts of non-computery things as well as (paid) work.
And tbh, I was kind of under the impression the game was more or less dead, with cantr back up and practically no activity on my own characters. Apparently, it's not, which is great.

Quote:

My characters are making good progress.
The traveller has gone full circle around the island and is now exploring further inland. I think I'm making up rather nice name for places now.
He's gonna want mapping, and then a boat.

I've started a farmer character who found a nice grassland location and has made a wheat field. I a few days I'm hoping to have some bread. I wonder when he will be able to eat it.

The paperpress guy is not doing much anymore I'm afraid. Waiting for paper demand to pick up. If money is implemented he might go for some kind of banking business. This would also require secure storage. He would very much appreciate buildings and rooms with locks.

All good thoughts. I think eating (and thus food, which means lots and lots of resource types, tools, and projects to make and use them) is going to come first. Then injuries, hunger, maybe thirst, and other damage to the body, eventually causing death. Then probably weapons, buildings, vehicles, in that order.

I don't think money is going to be part of the game directly, but I plan to provide the means to produce items that could be used as money - signed notes could double as bank notes, as well as stamped notes (I'm not exactly clear on the implementation details though); a similar mechanism could be used to produce coins. In cantrII, there are only a handful of places that maintain a currency, and the coins are mainly of local value, used to pay workers. Actual trade uses valuable resources instead - oil, iron, steel, etc. Skills are another important thing to add, creating a bit more diversity among characters.

Another thing I would love to implement is faces - store a few parameters on the character, say, skin tone, colors of hair and eyes, hair structure, some metrics like eye distance, nose length and position, etc., and use those to generate a picture of the face. Any thoughts on this one? So far, mine are; on the pro side: it will provide a natural way of distinguishing between different unknown people, it will add parameters to a characters starting situation that influence how others see them, and it may make it easier to identify with your character, which is especially useful when you play a lot of characters, helps to get into character and such. On the con side, it destroys part of the text-based nature of the game, and it leaves less room to the player's imagination.

gnolam said:

I have nothing against wear through use, but wear through just time passed (for things that shouldn't rot) is awful, both realism- and gameplay-wise.
If the world is flooded with some kind of item it shouldn't be flooded with (that distinction is necessary), that usually means that the item is A) too easy to make, B) too durable or C) just not in demand (in which case, the in-game market should take care of it eventually).

You're probably right. Actually, rot over time isn't mandatory, I can just set it to 0 for items or resources that don't perish by themselves. I'll just have to see how things go - if the world does get flooded with certain items (other than, say, pebbles), a sink will be needed, and I will implement one.

Also, I've been thinking I could use a little help. Mainly on the programming front for now, and later maybe for other things - finding a wider audience, hosting, thinking of a way to raise some money, that kind of things. If anyone is interested, let me know.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

And tbh, I was kind of under the impression the game was more or less dead, with cantr back up and practically no activity on my own characters. Apparently, it's not, which is great.

Uh-oh. This reminds me of the time when axilmar wanted to create his own programming language and gave it up because of lack of interest by other people. Similar things apply here. Finish it, and people will get interested. Now there isn't really much to do...

And I can tell you now that your interface alone is much better than what CantrII has. Please, keep on going. And I would gladly volunteer to help you. If you need more information about my experience, please do PM me.

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Vanneto said:

Uh-oh. This reminds me of the time when axilmar wanted to create his own programming language and gave it up because of lack of interest by other people. Similar things apply here. Finish it, and people will get interested. Now there isn't really much to do...

I don't think thats the case here, more like the author thought it would die, but didn't, and he was surprised!

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

^ This. I figured with cantr back up (btw, it's down yet again, yay!) there was little point in people playing mine.

Vanneto said:

Finish it, and people will get interested.

It will never be finished, that's the beauty of it.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
avatar

Well, I bet more people will sign up if you have an option for it on the page.

Perhaps an invite system if you don't want people to flood in?

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Yes, signup page is absolutely needed.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

While I'm way too rusty on PHP to contribute (some extremely thankless admin duties pretty much made me ragequit web developing a couple of years ago), I would like to look at the source if that offer is still open. :)

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

I got this when trying to make something:

exception 'DB_Base_SqlException' with message 'PROCEDURE rpg.has_missing_machines does not exist (SQL42000)' in /home/rpg/www/db/generated/Database.php:317
Stack trace:
#0 /home/rpg/www/db/user/ProjectType.php(33): DB_Generated_Database->executeScalar('CALL has_missin...', Array)
#1 /home/rpg/www/db/user/Character.php(392): DB_ProjectType->creatableAtLocation(Object(DB_Location))
#2 /home/rpg/www/play/CreateProject.php(31): DB_Character->createProject(3, true, true, true, 1)
#3 /home/rpg/lib/WebUI/src/Event.php(21): CreateProject->btnCreate_Clicked(Object(WebUI_Button), NULL)
#4 /home/rpg/lib/WebUI/src/Event.php(39): WebUI_EventHandler->raise(Object(WebUI_Button), NULL)
#5 /home/rpg/lib/WebUI/src/Button.php(109): WebUI_Event->raise(Object(WebUI_Button))
#6 /home/rpg/lib/WebUI/src/Container.php(68): WebUI_Button->processRequest()
#7 /home/rpg/www/code/BaseWebPage.php(150): WebUI_Container->processRequest()
#8 /home/rpg/www/code/BasePlayerPage.php(78): BaseWebPage->processRequest()
#9 /home/rpg/www/play/CreateProject.php(125): BasePlayerPage->processRequest()
#10 /home/rpg/lib/WebUI/src/Page.php(99): CreateProject->processRequest()
#11 /home/rpg/www/play/CreateProject.php(133): WebUI_Page->execute()
#12 {main}

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red
If anyone is of the opinion that there is no systemic racism in America, they're either blind, stupid, or racist too. ~Edgar Reynaldo

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Odd... the database upgrade script should have created it... it's there now though.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
avatar

I arrived at a place and someone had said something to me, but I didn't know who. So I clicked the "nameless person" link to name them, the screen went semi white but I can't see the box to type anything at all. Have to leave the page.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

I kinda wish there was a way to have some auto-name feature so that if I see someone I haven't met before, I would see something that would hopefully uniquely identify them. (even if the way they're identified is different for one character then another, as a way to prevent this from allowing you know someone who met another one of your characters. At least until you ask their name.)

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red
If anyone is of the opinion that there is no systemic racism in America, they're either blind, stupid, or racist too. ~Edgar Reynaldo



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