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I just got baptized - Yea! |
Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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relay01 said: Also I highly doubt you were always an atheist. And why is that? X-G said: Unfortunately, I think that because of this (which is obviously true), the statement that one should just "live and let live" does not hold water. It is true that as long as you are harming no one with your actions, you should be able to do as you wish and hold whatever opinion you wish. That much we must grant any person. Yup. That's what I meant. Quote: But we have to be careful that we don't interpret that to mean that anyone is immune to criticism or debate. Absolutely. Quote: I'm not homosexual, but I will still strongly argue against anyone who claims homosexuality is evil.
And I think you would be right to do so. Quote: This stretches to territory that might be a bit sensistive. For instance, should we intervene if someone is teaching their children harmful and blatantly untrue things about the cosmos?
Schools should definitely not be teaching it, at least not as part of the curriculum that deals with our current best understanding of the cosmos. Quote: It's complicated.
It is. I don't think there's an easy answer as long as you want to be tolerant of other ideas. I'm sure someone will come around shortly and say I'm being close-minded and not open to "alternative" explanations for what I just said about evolution and intelligent design. |
relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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Re-reading my previous posts, I've made a horrible defense here. Something about the "God made me an atheist" remark got to me and I made the bad decision to try and reply while at work. Let's try this again: _____________________________________ |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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OK, you do the praying for both of us and I'll do the thinking for both of us. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: OK, you do the praying for both of us and I'll do the thinking for both of us. With that statement I'm reminded of your cartoon, except with the roles reversed. Many atheists are not at all resistant to labeling people of any religion as ignorant, unevolved, silly, or the like. In an atheistic view, can not a theist be considered smart? _____________________________________ |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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relay01 said: Many atheists are not at all resistant to labeling people of any religion as ignorant, unevolved, silly, or the like. In an atheistic view, can not a theist be considered smart? Sure, but they tend not to say things like relay01 said: I'd like to pray for you. or relay01 said: you've since been corrupted.
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relay01
Member #6,988
March 2006
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Way to take a hypothetical argument and use it as cannon fodder. The "you've since been corrupted" was a rather poor counter-argument but one that's generally accepted by theists and non-theists alike. Would you not agree that since childhood as we grow more aware of the world around us we lose our so-called innocence? As for praying, can you reason how praying correlates with ignorance? _____________________________________ |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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"Innocence" can be construed as believing in fairy tales. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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relay01 said: As for praying, can you reason how praying correlates with ignorance? Show me a study that undeniably proves the absolute effectiveness of prayers, and I will convert from atheism right now. --- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Jesse Lenney said: Show me a study that undeniably proves the absolute effectiveness of prayers, and I will convert from atheism right now. There are plenty of studies that show being a God fearing person leads to longer life etc, but that's partly a result of not so likely to engage in risky behaviors such as driving around with high blood alcohol etc. There's also the placebo effect. And since so many Americans are praying for an American victory in the Middle East, and so many Muslims are praying for the exact opposite, how does God decide? They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: There are plenty of studies that show being a God fearing person leads to longer life There are so many other variables that factor into this I don't even know where to start. Correlation does not equal causation. --- |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: And since so many Americans are praying for an American victory in the Middle East, and so many Muslims are praying for the exact opposite, how does God decide? You'd be better off with an example that doesn't cross religions. Jesse Lenney said: There are so many other variables that factor into this I don't even know where to start. Correlation does not equal causation. You're asking for the impossible. You would find fault with any conclusive study because your mind is already made up. |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Arthur Kalliokoski said: There are plenty of studies that show being a God fearing person leads to longer life etc, but that's partly a result of not so likely to engage in risky behaviors such as driving around with high blood alcohol etc. There's also the placebo effect. Having certain pets has been shown to result in a longer life. I have a cat. -- |
blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Matthew Leverton said: You're asking for the impossible. You would find fault with any conclusive study because your mind is already made up. I believe in things in which there exists credible scientific evidence supporting its claims. Thus, if one day, there came some form of evidence that proved the existence of God beyond all reasonable doubt, I would become a believer. --- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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"Reasonable doubt" is debatable in itself. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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My avatar is debatable in itself. --- |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Jesse Lenney said: My avatar is debatable in itself. Have you ever tried to have a debate with a kitten? -- |
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I don't doubt if God himself landed a UFO in front of your house and did a few magic tricks that you'd probably believe something supernatural happened. But you are already backing up from your previous claim that "Show me a study that undeniably proves the absolute effectiveness of prayers". With every conclusive study, you'd just say you need one more study, etc. |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Jesse Lenney said: My avatar is debatable in itself. Character assassination in the form of calling you "a pussy" isn't fair debate. Matthew Leverton said: I don't doubt if God himself landed a UFO in front of your house and did a few magic tricks that you'd probably believe something supernatural happened. Supernatural is a null term. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Just to throw a thought out there ... Jesse Lenney said: I believe in things in which there exists credible scientific evidence supporting its claims. Thus, if one day, there came some form of evidence that proved the existence of God beyond all reasonable doubt, I would become a believer. This would probably cause me to become a non-believer, personally. Science is supposed to be about the natural world. God is supernatural. Having natural evidence for something supernatural would just mean it wasn't supernatural. Am I wrong? -- |
Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Matthew Leverton said: But you are already backing up from your previous claim that "Show me a study that undeniably proves the absolute effectiveness of prayers". With every conclusive study, you'd just say you need one more study, etc. A reasonable person would be able to take the first few papers for their words. If there aren't a dozen papers refuting the claims of the first few 23yrold3yrold said: This would probably cause me to become a non-believer, personally. Science is supposed to be about the natural world. God is supernatural. Having natural evidence for something supernatural would just mean it wasn't supernatural. Am I wrong? I'm not sure anything said god is supposed to be supernatural. Should god exist, it would be the most natural thing in the universe I'd think. -- |
Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Jesse Lenney said: Show me a study that undeniably proves the absolute effectiveness of prayers, and I will convert from atheism right now. Praying is more for the prayer rather than the prayee. There's way too many people praying contrasting prayers for any "absolute effectiveness". Praying is an attempt to make a connection to an entity they believe exists. That very belief makes the prayer feel comfort, even though they could just as well be talking to a wall. There's a reason a lot of people have imaginary friends while growing up. Sounds like a good argument not to believe, but I am not entirely convinced that science has answered everything and that some divine entity could be shrouded in that unresolved mystery. Most scientific minds believe that is such a small chance that it is completely negligible. To me, it isn't negligible and therefore validates trying to connect with such an entity via prayer. Beyond this, I've become skeptical of most other religious teachings, considering them a work of fiction unless I can be handed physical evidence / proof. ------------ |
blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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23yrold3yrold said: This would probably cause me to become a non-believer, personally. Science is supposed to be about the natural world. God is supernatural. Having natural evidence for something supernatural would just mean it wasn't supernatural. Am I wrong? I mean, as in, having evidence in which the only possible explanation was the intervention of a super natural being (God); i.e. if prayers actually worked --- |
Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Onewing said: I am not entirely convinced that science has answered everything Science never claimed it answered everything. It merely claims to form a hypothesis that can predict events, and if the hypothesis seems to work, it's advanced to a theory. They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas. |
blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Onewing said: I am not entirely convinced that science has answered everything And it will be a sad day when it has... --- |
Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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I feel left out. I'm going to check if there is a church of atheism so I can get baptised. Neil. wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie |
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