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Credits go to Arvidsson, anonymous, Arthur Kalliokoski, bamccaig, Crazy Photon, Evert, Fishcake, FMC, gnolam, Goalie Ca, GullRaDriel, Jakub Wasilewski, Johan Halmén, Jonatan Hedborg, kenmasters1976, lambik, Neil Black, Oscar Giner, Slartibartfast, type568, Vanneto, and weapon_S for helping out!
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Allegro.cc Translator Experiment 2010
Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

Jakub brought up an interesting idea in the Bad Translator thread, and for better organization, I suggest starting an interesting experiment.

Everyone is welcome to join, it'll only take some minutes of your time.

Idea

For the ones who don't know about it, the whole point of this experiment is seeing how Humans would fare in a situation like the Bad Translator, and compare the results. Of course, I don't expect we can find speakers of 54 languages, but this is a big international community, so we can do a pretty good work.

Also, you can't deny it sounds fun. ;)

(I'm open to suggestions here. If you think the idea below is unpractical and have a better solution, please say so :))

Experiment

The whole event would be some simple phases:

  • A group of people participate as translators.

  • A participant is told to translate a phrase and send it to another participant.

  • When the chain ends, I receive the final result and it gets posted.

Process

This is how I think the event should be organized.

Phase #1: Participants listing - 29th April(Tuesday) to 2nd May(Sunday)

[1]
In this phase, everyone posts whether if they want to participate, and the languages they offer to translate. We need at least 2 persons that can translate the same language[2]. The next day when the Phase ends(2nd May), I'll have to organise how will the chain work(maybe I'll code up something, or just sort it manually if the list is small).

Phase #2: Task Assignment

I'll make sure to send a PM to each of the participants explaining their task, and the recipient of the translated phrase. The message would explain:
The previous language. (And who is expect to send you the phrase)
The language they need to translate to(English, or Language X).
The recipient of the translated phrase.

If everything goes along smoothly, I would have done this 2nd May(it's Sunday).

Phase #3: PM Chain

The person who was designated as the starter would have to translate and send the phrase. Just to be sure, when you send the message, you'd need to send a confirmation PM to me. That way, if one of the links in the chain remains inactive for 2 days, I'll translate the phrase with Google Translator and send the phrase to the next link.

So remember, once you receive a PM with the translated phrase, you only have 2 days to translate it and send it. If you visit the place regularly, this shouldn't be a problem at all.

So to sum up, when you receive the PM:

  • Translate and send to the recipient.

  • Send a confirmation PM to me. (Along with the translated phrase, so I can do a history of how the translations changed the original phrase).

Phase #4: End result

Once the PM chain gets back to me(Hopefully), I'll post the end result, and the history of the translation. This whole PM chain deal might take a week for sure.

Final thoughts:

So, who wants to join the fun? Even though the above process might look long, for the participants is only simplified to:
- Say you participate with X language(s).
- Receive a PM with your task.
- When you receive a PM with the translated phrase, do your job and send it to the next person.
- Send a PM to me with the translated phrase too.

As simple as that. :)

BTW, a single participant can act as more than a single link in the chain if he's willing to translate to more languages.
Cross that. A participant can only act as a translator in one link of the chain. [3]

To say you want to participate, you can post something as simple as this:
LanguageX <--> English
(This means back and forth)
LanguageX --> English
(Can only translate from LanguageX to English)
LanguageX <-- English
(Can only translate from English to LanguageX)

Covered languages actual list:

  • Dutch

  • German

  • Hebrew

  • Spanish

  • Swedish

  • Finnish

  • French

No More Entries

The time's up, and translation chain is in progress. Everyone, look in your PMs inbox once in a while. Good luck and have fun!

References

  1. If there aren't enough participants, we could push the date a bit
  2. (for Back and forth translations to English issues)
  3. Bamccaig's argument.

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Are you planning on taking the translation direction into account? For example, while I would be quite comfortable translating, say, German to Swedish, the opposite would not be true...

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

No, it's different. Since I'm trying to mimic the Bad Translator, the order goes like this:

English -> German -> English -> Swedish -> English

EDIT: Of course, everyone's assumed to know English on this board.

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
avatar

Funny experiment. Instead of just one phrase, I think it'd be better if the message consisted of several phrases.

I can do Spanish and Catalan.

[edit]

Spanish <--> English
Catalan <--> English

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

I can do Dutch in either direction.
I can have a go at going from German or possibly French to English (rather not if we're doing multiple sentences because it may take me too long then).
To make things interesting I might be persuaded to do Latin->English as well.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

We should be able to get Piccolo to do the Nameks

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
avatar

I can do english <--> french

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
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Instead of just one phrase, I think it'd be better if the message consisted of several phrases.

I was thinking of picking a paragraph too. I'll have to think about it. If more people feel like this is much better, then a paragraph it'll be(maybe composed from 3-4 phrases).

Evert: Great. I suppose someone else here can speak Dutch too.

We should be able to get Piccolo to do the Nameks

But we'd need another namekian to translate it back to English. ;)

Goalie Ca said:

I can do english <--> french

Great, that seems like an easy way to keep a list of the languages and the directions you can translate. So the rest of you can use syntax like this[1]

References

  1. Syntax

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

OK, sounds kinda like a fun experiment. I can do Spanish <--> English. If you end up with a lot of translators for a language, you can always do something like:

English -> Spanish -> English -> Spanish -> English -> Spanish -> English

It would end up being some sort of Chinese Whispers game.

Also, how many runs would take place?. I mean, I would gladly participate in the first run, but it wouldn't be fun after that. So, if there's only one run, how many phrases or sentences will enter?, it would be a lot of trouble going through this for one single sentence.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Sounds fun :D
I can do English <=> Russian
& Hebrew => English

Edit:
Actually Hebrew <=> English, and even any combination of the three..
My good friend.

Furthermore, I'm not sure how is it to run with all notifications.. If somehow, something.. Contact details: type568, hosted at(@) the respected google mail service.

Fishcake
Member #8,704
June 2007
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I can do Malay <=> English!

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Italy is here :)
(i could translate from french to english, but it could come out quite funny :P )

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
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Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

I can translate Slovenian and German to/from English.

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
avatar

I think it's pretty obvious that I support the idea ;). My original idea was testing professional translators, but this will be fun nevertheless.

Polish ⇔ English
German ⇒ English
German ⇒ Polish

---------------------------
[ ChristmasHack! | My games ] :::: One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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lambik
Member #899
January 2001
avatar

Let's see:
Dutch <--> English
German --> English
I could try English --> German but I'm sure I would make a lot of spelling errors.
French --> English although I'm quite rusty nowadays
And of course German --> Dutch and French --> Dutch

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

Wow, now that increases the the number of languages. :) Thanks everyone for participating.

If you check the first post, I'll list what languages we've got covered, and which need 1 more translator. This should help to motivate some people and they can look better at what's needed.

If you end up with a lot of translators for a language, you can always do something like:

English -> Spanish -> English -> Spanish -> English -> Spanish -> English

That's one of the ideas I had in mind. Still, I'm not participating(I can do Spanish <--> English), since I'd be biased in trying to translate the phrase to the original meaning(I'd be the only one that knows the phrases while the PM chain happens).

Quote:

Also, how many runs would take place?. I mean, I would gladly participate in the first run, but it wouldn't be fun after that. So, if there's only one run, how many phrases or sentences will enter?, it would be a lot of trouble going through this for one single sentence.

I've decided it'll be a paragraph composed of 3 sentences. If the event takes place again, I might as well use the same PM chain. We will see how it turns out--who knows, maybe it's fun enough to do another run. :)

I don't know if the PM system is capable of using many foreign characters. If you feel a bit restricted with it, you're free to use an image that's legible enough.

type568 said:

Furthermore, I'm not sure how is it to run with all notifications.. If somehow, something.. Contact details: type568, hosted at(@) the respected google mail service.

It'll all be done via PM. If you want me to send you a mail to that address just to inform you that you received the PM, I will. I don't check my mailbox normally, I log in more often to the forum. Allegro.cc informs you nicely that you got a PM(It's so yellow you'll surely notice it).

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

Who chooses the sentences?. It has to be someone who is not participating, right?. So, that would be you, Dario?.

Also, I'd say we call this the TranslatorHack 2010 now.

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

I'll choose the sentences. I'm open to any suggestions by a non-participating member (He/She'd have to send me a PM).

I'll make sure to pick a typical paragraph you can expect in an English course. Not too complicated, but not too dumbo.

TranslatorHack 2010

Even though the name surely sounds nice, I don't think we can fit this in the category of Hacks. :)

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004
avatar

Swedish <--> English

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

Dario ff said:

I'll make sure to pick a typical paragraph you can expect in an English course.

I think that something like 3 independent phrases could probably give a funnier outcome than a 3-line paragraph.

Jakub Wasilewski
Member #3,653
June 2003
avatar

I think that something like 3 independent phrases could probably give a funnier outcome than a 3-line paragraph.

Seconded. I'd use 5 independent sentences to maximise the value of this test, since it's more likely than not that we will only be able to do this once ;).

---------------------------
[ ChristmasHack! | My games ] :::: One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something.

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

Well, that's going to take some more work for the translators and for the history. If most of you don't mind doing the extra work, then 5 sentences it'll be.

As Jakub said, this might be the only chance. :-*

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

Dario ff
Member #10,065
August 2008
avatar

Ok, I've added a notice to the first post indicating that anyone not participating is free to send me a PM with suggestions for the 5 sentences. Most of you US or GB residents can surely come up with some funny or catchy phrases. ;)

TranslatorHack 2010, a human translation chain in a.cc.
My games: [GiftCraft] - [Blocky Rhythm[SH2011]] - [Elven Revolution] - [Dune Smasher!]



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