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Windows 7
Don Freeman
Member #5,110
October 2004
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I like Linux, but from a GUI standpoint, KDE and Gnome both have too many issues and feel too "fake" (ok, "fake" is not the word I'm looking for...but close enough), I guess mainly because there are no real standards that everyone follows. I've always hated clicking a launcher icon and get the bouncing cursor, but then nothing...no message stating the program failed to launch, or it launches a few minutes later....even though the "busy" cursor is no longer active.

There are some things I am frustrated about with Windows 7, but so far...I kinda like it. It seems to be using the same code as Vista, yet some of the drivers that worked on Vista do not work in Windows 7. Strangely enough...my HP all-in-one printer does not work correctly. Pretty amazing as it's like forever old and every OS I've tried supports it one way or another. ::) One of the biggest things for me was on my desktop I had to manually install the network driver from my Windows XP drive, as the installer program from the manufacturer dies every time under Windows 7. Pretty fun that Windows wants to look online for a solution (considering it should know I was not able to connect to the net ::)) I had some issues with my desktop computer during install...got the machine check blue screen of death on install. Nothing I'm not used to, as Vista did the same thing. It was because of the SATA controller...Vista doesn't like how my system handles the IDE/RAID part of the SATA controller. Nothing major, but for an inexperienced user, they would probably return the computer thinking something was wrong. I would think it would be far more important to have drivers for almost every SATA/IDE drive controller and network card...at least with those, the user could install the OS and then at least look online for updates/drivers for the rest of the system. Windows 7 does start a LOT faster. So much so, that I actually use the shutdown button now instead of the hibernate button. It's almost as fast on my system...seriously. 8-) Just can't WAIT to see the big ass sticker price the big $M will put on this. It's good, but I don't think it's worth the $300 that I'm sure it'll cost. :-/ One thing that still really pisses me off (Vista and Windows 7), is that the power save shit sucks ass! I set the CPU to use no more that 50% power (so I expect the system to never go above 1GHz), well...no dice. It's like it just says fuck what you say, I'm doing whatever. >:( At least under XP I could use SpeedSwitchXP and could limit my CPU to 800MHz, 1600MHz, or full speed and it would never go above that.

--
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Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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Just can't WAIT to see the big sticker price the big $M will put on this.

Since you can't wait, try this.

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Don Freeman
Member #5,110
October 2004
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Kinda what I thought...the Ultimate version (with which we are all using in the evaluation version) will be at least $300. :-/ Not enough meat there for me to justify that sticker price. If I buy a computer preloaded with Windows 7, then so be it...if not, then I will survive as well. 8-) Even though I doubt I'll buy a computer preloaded with Windows 7, as I build all of my own systems (with the exception of laptops, of course). Does anyone know if Microsoft will allow us to purchase a valid product key closer to the end of the evaluation that will allow us to continue using this version of Windows 7, or do we need to wipe and install a fresh copy?

--
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"It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it."

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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As i understood it, we're supposed to be able to install a retail copy over it without losing anything.

Regarding the pricing, it's nice to see that Microsoft is starting to adopt the "you'll attract more flies with honey" policy.

We'll just see how the 7's translation is. In finland, Microsoft's translations have always been top notch, but vista broke that tradition by being poorly translated (for MS, but still significantly superior than any finnish localisation of any open source product i've ever come accross).

You don't deserve my sig.

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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jhuuskon said:

for MS, but still significantly superior than any finnish localisation of any open source product i've ever come accross

I do sometimes wish there was somewhere you could send corrections for those funny little manuals you get with imported electronics from south-east Asia. I guess printed documents are a lot easier than programs though, as the exact context for every phrase that is used is immediately visible.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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They ship the cheapest shit with babelfished manuals but fortunately with the english one usually in tow.

In total, I've probably wastes hours of my life trying to find the language options in an open source program that had the translation quality of babelfish output. (Machine translation between indo-european and uralic languages is pretty much impossible.)

uTorrent for example, is a notorious example of poor translation. The poor translation actually encourages leeching as the 'seeding' status is translated into what means 'done'. ::)

To clarify my earlier point, on a scale where XP's translation was rated at 10 and the babelfished unreadable far eastern electronics manual get a grade of 1, Vista's translation was an 8 and most open source software range between 3 and 6.

You don't deserve my sig.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Funny. I've heard the exact opposite from people. Usually the language isnt even covered by MS, but if it is, they find translations from projects like KDE to be far superior to any MS translations.

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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I've heard the exact opposite from people. Usually the language isnt even covered by MS, but if it is, they find translations from projects like KDE to be far superior to any MS translations.

This is also what I've heard.
I wouldn't know from personal experience though; I always communicate with computers in English.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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I'm sure the Selkup speakers (all 1500 of them) are thrilled to have KDE translated to their language. ::)

I can only speak for finnish translations, but apart from the Win9x swap file becoming the 'throw-exchange-file' in translation, MS had a very good track record until Vista came along with its typos and and sloppy compounds. Or maybe Vista translation was outsourced to a company in Lappeen ranta.[1]

References

  1. A finnish language in-joke: Only people living in Lappeenranta are allowed to make mistakes when compounding words.

You don't deserve my sig.

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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I had previously heard that part of the edge that brought Microsoft its current dominance was superior translation work. I've no idea about the period after they achieved monopoly though.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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I don't know about translations, but in my experience so far, localization in Linux is a complete train wreck. :P

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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I had previously heard that part of the edge that brought Microsoft its current dominance was superior translation work.

Really? they can't even be bothered to produce a British English version.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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You're funny!

You don't deserve my sig.

Martin Kalbfuß
Member #9,131
October 2007
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The German translation of most Linux apps is good. But there are some bad apps. Blender for example. It's half translated. Ugly.

A fresh debian stable installation is always well translated. But when I can't wait and install testing/ sid, I get problems some times.

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Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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Well, I use my computer on mac, windows, and linux in french. Windows always seems to think I'm in english anyways and it doesn't even seem to me like half the apps they do run in any localization. With open source, everything is always run in my local but the command line is probably the least "french". GCC is only half translated at best and most others are english only. Otherwise, with mac and open source, I just set my local to french and all programs seem to recognize it (even websites).

edit: and mac wins for dealing with unicode input œ, æ i can't seem to get windows to produce those characters (at least not in a standard way).

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Schyfis
Member #9,752
May 2008
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æ is alt+145 on the numpad in Windows if I'm not mistaken.
I can't test it right now since I'm on my laptop.

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Back to Windows 7. Is it still recommended to go for the 32 bit version on a 64 bit computer as with Vista, or will my 64bit laptop now get better mileage on Windows 7 64bit? I assume 32/64 issues/problems are driver related and not software/application related? I know there's a 64bit geforce 8600 driver...

I'm thinking of upgrading tonight :)

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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I guess mainly because there are no real standards that everyone follows.

When's the last time you've been to windows? Most every application I use on Windows has it's own GUI kit and shortcuts etc. Have you seen MS Office 2007? You get a far far more consistent enviroment on Linux (as long as you stay exclusively in KDE, or GNOME... if you mix and match, you just fall back to the Windows' level)

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Ah, you can't upgrade from 32bit to 64bit so I'm stuck with 32bit w7.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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But Microsoft are still claiming that upgrade editions won't be available in Europe, the full E version being available at the upgrade price instead.

Are there any significant improvements or features available only to 64bit users? I'm on a wholly 32bit machine (a Core Duo) and in any case don't currently intend to run Windows 7 anywhere but in a virtual machine.

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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If you're talking about me Tommo, then I've got a MSDN licence 8-)

Well, I upgraded last night and I got a BSOD on startup! however I traced it to superantispyware so now I'm up and running and like the immediate changes to the desktop and task bar.

One thing though, the fonts at allegro.cc have changed completely to a horrible serif font and I don't like it, they are all a lot thinner and the kerning is much closer. I assume it's Windows cleartype goings on or they've changed time roman or whatever it is that is at the this site.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

Schyfis
Member #9,752
May 2008
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We finally installed the RC on my dad's computer.

  • The first iso burned to DVD incorrectly, but it worked on the second try. (This appears to be a common problem with the RC iso.)

  • UAC is still a pain. Everything needs to be confirmed twice. I haven't tried turning it off yet.

  • Some sound/wallpaper themes come with it that you can choose from by right clicking on the desktop and selecting Personalize.

  • The mouse options appear to be unchanged.

  • Control panel has been reorganized a bit. Didn't see any option for classic or list view.

  • The taskbar seems to function well. There's an unlabeled "show desktop" button on the right side of it, which seems kind of odd.

  • It's nice to be able to shake a window around to minimize all other windows (and again to restore them).

  • Desktop backgrounds can change automatically by using a slideshow feature.

  • Calculator has been updated with a "Programmer" option. It allows you to see the binary representation of your number. Haven't gotten a chance to explore that option fully.

  • Paint has some new brush features that look like they could be drawn with an actual paintbrush. The status bar at the bottom displays info like mouse coordinates, image size, and a zoom slider. Shapes like arrows and stars can now be added to the canvas. Freeform selection is still just a stupid version of box selection. When using the pencil tool, some pixels are eliminated to make the line smoother. The line and curved line tools are now antialiased (making it useless for making old-school game sprites). Text can now be added at any zoom level.

  • Chess Titans appears to be unchanged.

  • Inkball was not present.

  • Seems to run faster.

  • No crashes yet!

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Schyfis said:

Calculator has been updated with a "Programmer" option. It allows you to see the binary representation of your number. Haven't gotten a chance to explore that option fully.

Does it do any more than that? You could already do that with every version of Windows Calculator I've ever used.

Schyfis
Member #9,752
May 2008
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LennyLen said:

Does it do any more than that?

I was just going to take a screenshot, but once I tried to access my laptop on the W7 computer the Network window locked up at the user/password prompt. I tried to close it, but was forced to kill explorer.exe. I tried to start explorer again, but I was unable to open any folders. It seems that you can have multiple copies of it running, which screwed everything up. (I also tried a reboot, but it's taking a ridiculously long time to log off and I just gave up.)

Anyway, after selecting Programmer from the View menu, Calculator resizes itself and shows underneath the input box a 64-bit binary representation of whatever you type in. This means you can view binary without switching input modes. I'll get that screenshot tomorrow.

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[unTied Games]

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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