Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » OS Speculations

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2   3   4 
OS Speculations
furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
avatar

About a year ago, I bought the cheapest computer in the store. (emachines T5062)

It came with Vista Premium. It does have some nice eye-candy over XP, but my CPU idled(i.e. I shut all windows and background apps) at 10%. The damn operating system takes almost 10% of my processing power to do absolutely nothing!

XP is a little better. At least it idles at <1%. I am not perpetually bugged by security issues, and my MingW compiler actually works.

I have high hopes for ReactOS, which is built in lieu of the NT kernel. This means that it will be binarily compatible with XP, NT, and likely windows 7. I don't know if they are making preparations for 64 bit or not. :-[

Currently I'd like to experiment with Linux. I hear it is much more secure, easier on the resources, and much less costly. But I really don't want to hear "all you have to do is recompile the Kernel". I'm not completely retarded, I know what a kernel is. Keep in mind though: I like so many others were raised on windows where everything is done via graphical interface. I have only recently started using command line programs, and I've never actually compiled something manually.

These things said, anyone know where I can get a usable version of linux. How is Linux's compatibility using Wine etc? Where is a good place to learn command line basics? Am I going to be able to run my games like Oblivion, and StarCraft? (yes I still play starcraft) ;D

Indeterminatus
Member #737
November 2000
avatar

There are distributions that have a "live CD", meaning you can boot via CD and play around with Linux, and your existing installation is not touched at all. The first ones that come to mind are Knoppix and Ubuntu (and probably another flavour thereof: KUbuntu).

There is no installation required, and if you don't like it, you just throw away the CD.

_______________________________
Indeterminatus. [Atomic Butcher]
si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

Myrdos
Member #1,772
December 2001

Most users can get by using only a graphical interface with Linux these days, depending on hardware and the distribution they pick. The stuff you'll do at a command line will probably be copied and pasted from how-to guides online.

furinkan said:

These things said, anyone know where I can get a usable version of linux.

Ubuntu? It's fairly easy to use.

Quote:

How is Linux's compatibility using Wine etc?

Mediocre. Games run slowly, have graphical artifacts, some programs don't work at all.

Quote:

Where is a good place to learn command line basics?

Well, if you pick Ubuntu I usually recommend to go here: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Jaunty

When googling, don't search for 'how to do something in Linux', search for 'how to do something in <insert distribution name here>'. Guides 'for Linux' are intended to work on most (or all) distributions, and don't take advantage of the high-level tools available in them. It can be the difference between manually compiling packages for two hours or clicking 'Use Proprietary Drivers'.

But for actual command prompt stuff, here's a comparison to Windows:
ls - dir
mv - move
nano - edit
cp - copy
cd - cd
cd .. - move up one directory
cd $HOME - go to home directory

To run a program in the current directory:
./myprogram - myprogram.exe

To run a program with administrative privileges:
sudo theprogram

Quote:

Am I going to be able to run my games like Oblivion, and StarCraft? (yes I still play starcraft)

You can search for compatible programs on WINE's applicaton database. There are also a few commercial games that run natively on Linux.

__________________________________________________

furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
avatar

Well, cant get any more up front than that. I was actually intending to do a dual boot, since I already have a partition set up solely for programming. It will just end up being a Linux/programming partition. Hey that reminds me! Linux doesnt support NTFS. How would I handle a dual boot, FAT32?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

I've been able to access NTFS for years with default distributions. ntfs3g or something.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
avatar

Thanks guys, I will get right on liberating all my computers from the worst that capitalism has to offer.

I really don't think people should have to pay to have their computers work. OSs should remain open source and monetarily free. So should media players, utilities, and file formats. It is OK to have proprietary software in the interest of making money, but anything else should remain free in the spirit of free knowledge.

Thanks again, I'll be back after washing dishes for seven hours at the local KFC. ;D

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

Furinkan said:

Thanks again, I'll be back after washing dishes for seven hours at the local KFC.

Why do they call it KFC? Some guy purporting to be the ceo (president?) apologized to New England with an Australian accent recently and the chicken is now grilled. As to Oses, Linux is fine, but hard to keep up. I went to Fedora 8 (a year ago?) when it was released and they are now on 10 or 11.

By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul.
"Love thy neighbor as much as you love yourself means be nice to the people next door. Everyone else can go to hell. Missy Cooper.
The advantage to learning something on your own is that there is no one there to tell you something can't be done.

ixilom
Member #7,167
April 2006
avatar

furinkan said:

I have high hopes for ReactOS

I used to have high hopes for it too, years ago.. but it seems they are years behind, all the time ;D

As for linux, I'd do what people above said, get a "Live CD" to get a feel of which one you like. I liked Kubuntu (KDE instead of Gnome as they use in vanilla Ubuntu). It found all my hardware on my crappy Acer laptop :)

___________________________________________
Democracy in Sweden? Not since 2008-Jun-18.
<someone> The lesbians next door bought me a rolex for my birthday.
<someone> I think they misunderstood when I said I wanna watch...

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Bob Keane said:

Why do they call it KFC?

I heard it was because "Fried" is seen as "bad" so they wanted to take the stigma out of their name.

But a lot of the chicken is still fried afaik.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Speedo
Member #9,783
May 2008

ixilom said:

I used to have high hopes for it too, years ago.. but it seems they are years behind, all the time ;D

What they're trying to do is basically unrealistic. By the time they have something that can be a solid windows (let's say XP) replacement, MS will have moved on so far that they'll still be waaay behind. I'm sure they'll have their loyal following and all, but I seriously don't expect it to ever even compete with *nix, mustless Windows.

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

I heard it was because "Fried" is seen as "bad" so they wanted to take the stigma out of their name.

I understand the "F" part, but why the "K"? The head of the company has an Australian accent.

By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul.
"Love thy neighbor as much as you love yourself means be nice to the people next door. Everyone else can go to hell. Missy Cooper.
The advantage to learning something on your own is that there is no one there to tell you something can't be done.

alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
avatar

furinkan said:

I have high hopes for ReactOS, which is built in lieu of the NT kernel.

Who needs ReactOS? Use FreeDOS! :P

--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
C++: An octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog.
I am the Lightning-Struck Penguin of Doom.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

furinkan said:

and my MingW compiler actually works.

They fixed the bug in MinGW that made it not work properly with Vista.

Speedo
Member #9,783
May 2008

Bob Keane said:

I understand the "F" part, but why the "K"? The head of the company has an Australian accent.

Seriously, a little research? The guy who founded the chain and came up with the "original recipe" chicken originally started selling fried chicken in the 1930s in Kentucky.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

furinkan said:

I really don't think people should have to pay to have their computers work. OSs should remain open source and monetarily free. So should media players, utilities, and file formats. It is OK to have proprietary software in the interest of making money, but anything else should remain free in the spirit of free knowledge.

That's a great idea, but it will never work. Money makes stuff happen. Why do you think Windows is in a much better market position than Linux?

Money pays for the end user support. One of Linux's largest downfalls. It pays for developer salaries - people have to work for a living, so freebie programmers can't sit around programming all day for their favorite open source project. Etc...

furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
avatar

Well BAF, I guess i am a crappy idealist. :-[

Microsoft charges for most tech support unless you purchase a retail copy of the software. Then they charge for any tech support that doesn't directly involve Windows.

As for KFC, we have both grilled and fried chicken. My store was actually one of the test locations for the Indianapolis/Chicago area. The owner was nice enough to fly down from Michigan in his leer-jet >:( to bitch at our store before it went national. Then the managers from our region all flocked in to learn the trade secrets we spent a YEAR perfecting in secret. Oprah can go to hell.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

BAF said:

Money makes stuff happen. Why do you think Windows is in a much better market position than Linux?

Marketing? (think hundreds of millions here)

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-269032.html

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39167856,00.htm

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39292630,00.htm

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

furinkan said:

Linux doesnt support NTFS. How would I handle a dual boot, FAT32?

FAT32 is a very sub-optimal file system; AFAIK, it maxes out at 30 GB, it has a huge overhead for "large" partitions, it doesn't have journalling (which means that any crash can leave the file system in a transitional state, leading to corrupt data), and it tends to get fragmented badly in no time.

Ubuntu seems to support NTFS. You do need windows to create and format NTFS partitions, though, and since NTFS is basically a closed standard, there are no guarantees about the safety of your data. Also, NTFS has windows-style user permissions built in, so in order to mount an NTFS partition in ubuntu, you need to provide windows credentials (which shouldn't be a problem though).

The other method would be an ext2/ext3 driver for windows. I haven't used any myself, but from what I read, this may be a useable alternative.

Anyhow, with today's hardware, you probably have plenty of disk space to spare to have two data partitions (one for windows, one for linux) and write data back and forth.

One more important hint: Install the dumbest OS first. For an XP / Vista / Linux triple boot configuration, this means XP goes first, then Vista, then Linux. Otherwise, the "dumber" OS will mess up the smarter one's boot configuration (e.g. XP overwriting grub).

furinkan said:

I really don't think people should have to pay to have their computers work. OSs should remain open source and monetarily free. So should media players, utilities, and file formats. It is OK to have proprietary software in the interest of making money, but anything else should remain free in the spirit of free knowledge.

That knowledge costs money. Lots of money. A software developer needs to eat, and a software company needs an office with servers and workstations and desks and coffee and snacks and all that. People work hard to produce that knowledge, and they need to be paid for that. Even all those open source developers need an income, and most of them either do commercial work for a living while working on open source projects in their spare time, or the entire project is sponsored by some kind of company that has commercial interests in the otherwise free project (as is the case with, for example, PHP - Zend makes a lot of money offering add-ons, IDEs, educational material and all sorts of support for it). Even Linux itself is partly driven by a number of companies such as RedHat, as well as non-profit organisations (the term "non-profit" does not imply that they don't pay any salaries!), and I doubt it could have become even this large without their support.
Of course people pay money for computers that work: The computer itself isn't free, and most computers come bundled with some kind of OS. You pay for the whole package, computer and OS, and if the combo doesn't work, you can take the thing back to the store and demand they fix it.
In fact, the situation with computers is quite odd. People buy computers, then install a different OS, and complain when it doesn't work. Or they complain that they have to "pay" for the OS. You don't see the same thing with other devices though: An average car today comes with a truckload of microprocessors, and many of them have some kind of firmware installed. Nobody complains about paying for that, and neither does anybody utter the idea that the installed firmware could be replaced by something "better".

Really, I don't see why software in general "should" be free. People make something, they sell (or licence) it. What's wrong about that? Nothing but the fact that other people make similar things and don't charge money for them.
We all know people need to eat. Suppose I offer free food - does that mean the bakery next door is suddenly somehow doing something unethical?

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
avatar

In fact, the situation with computers is quite odd. People buy computers, then install a different OS, and complain when it doesn't work. Or they complain that they have to "pay" for the OS. You don't see the same thing with other devices though: An average car today comes with a truckload of microprocessors, and many of them have some kind of firmware installed. Nobody complains about paying for that, and neither does anybody utter the idea that the installed firmware could be replaced by something "better".

Completely disparate situations. You don't directly deal with the firmware of your car's ICs, or develop software for them. They aren't designed to be general devices, as computers are.

--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
C++: An octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog.
I am the Lightning-Struck Penguin of Doom.

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
avatar

Lotsa capitalists here.
* Releases something for free just to rile them up.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

You don't directly deal with the firmware of your car's ICs, or develop software for them

Lots of people are upset about the firmware in their cars.

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/05/20/2219236/Right-to-Repair-Law-To-Get-DRM-Out-of-Your-Car?art_pos=1

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Myrdos
Member #1,772
December 2001

(responding to the claim that operating systems should be free) That knowledge costs money. Lots of money. ... People work hard to produce that knowledge, and they need to be paid for that.

I will only say that there are a great many operating systems which are free, and apparently still around, even though the developers are not being paid. They don't seem to be of lower quality than commercial OSs, in fact many people would argue that they're higher quality. How can this be?

Quote:

Suppose I offer free food - does that mean the bakery next door is suddenly somehow doing something unethical?

Their business model relies on convincing people to pay money for something that is freely available. I don't see an honest way to do this. Surely if they are able to stay in business, it could only be by harming their customers?

Quote:

People make something, they sell (or licence) it. What's wrong about that?

I have no problems paying money when there is no free alternative. Say, commercial games or movies. But why should I spend money on an operating system, or a word processor, when these things have been freely available for years? I must buy only because the manufacturers of commercial versions engage in dirty tricks to force me to do so. And I must buy them over and over and over again.

__________________________________________________

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

Their business model relies on convincing people to pay money for something that is freely available. I don't see an honest way to do this.

By that abuse of reasoning, there's probably not a single honest business in thw world then.

Quote:

I must buy only because the manufacturers of commercial versions engage in dirty tricks to force me to do so.

Let me guess... they kidnapped your mother and threatened to gang-rape her unless you bought their OS?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

LennyLen said:

they kidnapped your mother and threatened to gang-rape her unless you bought their OS?

Now you're just being silly... The records of the Borg intimidating, lying, using FUD and other underhanded tactics are legendary and not worth bringing up the thousands of links yet again.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

Now you're just being silly...

Yes, deliberately. Because anyone who claims that they were forced to buy an OS is either an idiot or a liar.

 1   2   3   4 


Go to: