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How do I find the ultimate games programmer?
Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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I'd move to the UK for a game programming job, if I was able to.
Then again, I'd have to move to another country if I want to get a game programming job, since the only game companies in here develop games for cellphones :S
(Except for the failed Ballerium by Majorem, which seemed kind of cool (And the beta was quite fun. At least when it was a closed beta.) but never got off the ground.)

Fladimir da Gorf
Member #1,565
October 2001
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Even if it sounds rather interesting, I can't really move to UK right now :)

But I'll keep that in mind anyways. I've got all too much java experience (from my current job and as a hobbyist) and also game programming experience (software/hardware 2D + hardware 3D), but I've mainly focused on the services sector lately...

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Dustin Dettmer
Member #3,935
October 2003
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Are you looking for an all-in-one (aka. art) developer or just a programmer?

Edit:
Nevermind, I found your website. Multiply the salary by 250% and I would seriously consider moving to the UK.

Job Description said:

Requirements:

    </li>

    I do not have this.

    Steve++
    Member #1,816
    January 2002

    Quote:

    Steve ++ - I agree with what you say - salary is somewhat negotiable...but (and I am sure you will raise your eyes to this) the pay off with this role comes from truely doing what you love for a living - we are looking for someone who codes mini games for a hobby and has done so all their life. To them, this is a golden job that they would do anything for - its just finding them that is hard :-)

    You're so wrong about the payoff. I'm a decent Java programmer. At the age of 13 I started programming because I wanted to make games. I'm now 30 and it's still my dream job. However, for the same experience and effort, I get much more money in a conventional programming role. While it's not my dream job, it's only about a 10% decrease in satisfaction for about a 75% increase in pay. I can live with that. And almost all wannabe professional game programmers can as well, which is why you can't find anyone for the peanuts you're offering.

    Matthew Leverton
    Supreme Loser
    January 1999
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    $50,000 for a starting job is hardly peanuts. But if you can truly make $88,000 like Steve++ or $125,000 like Dustin, then it's not very good.

    But I do disagree with the notion that just because someone is doing something he likes, that he shouldn't be compensated fairly. (Not that I think $50,000 plus benefits is unfair.) One could make the same argument for every job.

    I mean, cleaning toilets would probably be one of the the highest paying jobs if you paid people based on how much they hated their jobs.

    kikabo
    Member #3,679
    July 2003
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    Well, I would but I don't know java, don't want a big pay cut, don't want to pay £300k on an average house to work next to a ... guess :o

    Dustin Dettmer
    Member #3,935
    October 2003
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    Matthew said:

    $50,000 for a starting job is hardly peanuts. But if you can truly make $88,000 like Steve++ or $125,000 like Dustin, then it's not very good.

    Don't forget to calculate rent and living expenses, which will be paid in the pound.

    StevenVI
    Member #562
    July 2000
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    My girlfriend would beat me if I told her I was looking at a job in the UK. (She loves it over there, and would beat me out of love. We have an interesting relationship.) Further, yes the money is peanuts compared to what I'll be making once I finish my master's degree, and Matthew already beat me to saying it, but the money isn't bad at all. Beats unemployment any day. Also a tad nicer than my stipend.

    That said, I'm not really good at designing games, and it sounds like you're looking for a Renaissance man in this position. (I made a garbage man simulator. Turns out collecting garbage cans just isn't fun.)

    I'm unsure how I would feel though, if I knew I was working for a company which recruits on Internet message boards. That's kind of weird. But on the other hand, I know how poor my peers were at programming when I was in college. They all drooled over my Java Applet online RPG for networking class. (Sorry, not interested in the job, don't inquire. ;))

    (Edit: it was hardly an online RPG like WoW is, not that I've actually played it, but MMORPGs were still new at the time and I was guessing how they probably looked. I don't want to pay a monthly fee to play a game.)

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    nonnus29
    Member #2,606
    August 2002
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    Matthew said:

    $50,000 for a starting job is hardly peanuts.

    Yeah, but the advertised salary is only $34,000 plus the cost of living difference between where I live and the UK would diminish it further (the cost of living where I live is well below the national average). If I stay with my current job I can be up to $70k in a few years. And my job is dead easy 75% of the time.

    Matthew Leverton
    Supreme Loser
    January 1999
    avatar

    From the website, assuming I'm looking at the right position:

    Quote:

    Up to £24k, plus excellent benefits package including annual bonus, private healthcare and gym membership.

    That is essentially $50,000 (plus benefits). And of course I don't know what the cost of living is in Cambridge, but the salary would be adequate in Chicago.

    Vanneto
    Member #8,643
    May 2007

    Quote:

    Further, yes the money is peanuts compared to what I'll be making once I finish my master's degree,

    I agree. That salary is far less than peanuts once I become a multi-billionaire tycoon.

    In capitalist America bank robs you.

    Kibiz0r
    Member #6,203
    September 2005
    avatar

    I'd be interested, if I could work remotely. Actually, assuming that, I'd be interested in either the 3D modeling position, or the Java position. My qualifications are probably a little bit behind your ideal, and I am more of a C++ programmer than a Java programmer, but here's the run-down anyways:

    My schooling is a little confusing to explain. I'm a junior in "Digital Animation and Game Design", but the programming part sort of got spun off into its own major this year, so now I'm double-majoring in DAGD and "Digital Media Software Engineering", which is just CS with an emphasis on game development.

    Proficient languages:
    (in order of preference)

    • C/C++

    • Java

    • ActionScript

    • VB

    • TorqueScript

    My portfolio:

    School stuff

    • Art

    • Freshman year

    • Sophomore year

  • Code/Game Design
    • High school (independent study)

    • Sophomore year

    • Junior year

    [/list]

    Personal work (the fun stuff)

    • Art

    • Code/Game Design

    • Web sites

    And now I get the feeling that this post was entirely too long, and that I probably didn't even need to say anything beyond the first sentence. Oh well.

    Shov-UK
    Member #9,191
    October 2007

    Hi all

    Wow - I had no idea there would be so many posts and opinions when I logged on this morning. Thanks for all of the comments though, they are all very useful in their own ways.

    A couple of things I would like to mention regarding pay - I agree entirely with what most of you have said and I wish that higher salaries could be offered of course. However, when compared to salaries offered elsewehere for what is in essence a "junior" or first time professional developer role (regardless of whether the individual's skills in this area are junior indeed...this is where i regret the wording of my post title :-D) ours is very competitive.

    One other thing I wanted to point out was that the stability we offer here at Jagex is almost unmatched in the UK and perhaps global games development market. For example, many independent developers offer marginally higher salaries for comparable roles - however they struggle to remain in business, and with the industry moving further and further into an online, non-high street model, such developers are likely to struggle further still. So I guess what I am saying is that a more attractive salary means very little when the job is only there for a year at best before the company folds! While I of course cannot predict the future, I can say that being completely independent, established and online, Jagex are about fifty steps ahead of our peers and so jobs here are safe and in demand.

    I hope that at least goes a little way to justifying what we offer, and again I am sure on deeper reading into the benefits offered here - the package itself becomes much more attractive 8-)

    I also want to just respond to the comment about professionalism in "recruiting" through a forum. I understand how this can be perceived in such a way, and as such I want to make sure we are all on the same page here. As a company, we recruit in all the usual "professional" ways for our positions. My reason for posting here was on my own accord, and in essence following a "hunch". Creativity and thinking outside the box is what we are all about here - and while I could continue the professional approach to recruitment until hell freezes over, I still may not find the candidate I am looking for (believe me we have been recruiting for this position for some time now...traditionally). And so I went out on a limb and decided that there may be benefit in talking to the people I need to talk to, and already your comments have been more valuable and rewarding than any agency, magazine or job centre could ever provide :-D So I still feel I may be onto something!

    Sadly however I cannot spend all day on a forum and today I have a University careers fair to attend in about 2 hours so I must log off and will not be back on here again until Monday. But I just wanted everyone to know that I am reading, I am listening and I am still hoping that somewhere out there, our position, our company and our vision will hit home and who knows - perhaps this hunch will bear some fruit yet? Ill be keeping my fingers crossed anyway.

    Thanks every one!...oh and by the way - that satellite photo is misleading - our offices are set in a beautiful location with a lake and parkland a moments walk away :-D

    OICW
    Member #4,069
    November 2003
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    I would be interested. Sadly enough I just started my CS studies plus I don't live in GB. The latter however would be just a small problem. Anyway wishing you good luck on finding who do you want to find.

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    Dustin Dettmer
    Member #3,935
    October 2003
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    Shov-UK said:

    However, when compared to salaries offered elsewehere for what is in essence a "junior" or first time professional developer role (regardless of whether the individual's skills in this area are junior indeed...this is where i regret the wording of my post title :-D) ours is very competitive.

    Why are you seeking a skilled candidate to fill a junior role?

    Do you really intend to obtain commitment by pointing at others lack of payment? A double negative does not make a positive. Maybe this line works on typical employees but it will not work on a sufficiently intelligent candidate.

    Why do you think it is so hard to find talent? Maybe it is this industry you refer to and its 'bare-bones' salaries that are pushing them away. Do you intend to bring them back by comparing yourself to the industry they are avoiding?

    Shov-UK said:

    I agree entirely with what most of you have said and I wish that higher salaries could be offered of course.

    If your company is unable to pay for the skills it requires, they could consider royalties. Smart people tend to appreciate royalties.

    piccolo
    Member #3,163
    January 2003
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    That salary is peanuts in UK and where im from i use to make that working as a construction labor. I live in a UK owned country.

    edit:
    but i will recommend it to any of the Americans looking for a new start with new women.

    wow
    -------------------------------
    i am who you are not am i

    Evert
    Member #794
    November 2000
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    My salery is about €25,000 so I wouldn't consider the job badly paid. That said, we all knew academics is hardly going to make one rich.

    piccolo
    Member #3,163
    January 2003
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    Quote:

    That said, we all knew academics is hardly going to make one rich.

    that dependens on how you apply it.

    im going to be very well off very soon. of corse ill put large amounts of money in to resurface and development.

    wow
    -------------------------------
    i am who you are not am i

    nonnus29
    Member #2,606
    August 2002
    avatar

    Quote:

    but i will recommend it to any of the Americans looking for a new start with new women.

    L0L, the only thing worse than American women is British women. American women will at least have a conversation with you, British woman think the only reason a man speaks to them is to 'chat them up' and get into their knickers.

    It's really sad actually.

    piccolo
    Member #3,163
    January 2003
    avatar

    but they will be atracted to you because you speak amarican.

    wow
    -------------------------------
    i am who you are not am i

    nonnus29
    Member #2,606
    August 2002
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    Nope, that wasn't the case at all..... :-/

    Evert
    Member #794
    November 2000
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    Quote:

    that dependens on how you apply it.

    Not really. You don't go into science with the intention of getting rich, it just doesn't happen. Even if you make professor, you earn nowhere near what you would make if you had gone into industry instead.

    Quote:

    but they will be atracted to you because you speak amarican.

    In Britain? Hardly.

    Vanneto
    Member #8,643
    May 2007

    Quote:

    A double negative does not make a positive

    - 4 - ( -8 ) = 4 <--- positive
    

    Two negatives:
    -4 and -8

    Gives a positive:
    4

    In capitalist America bank robs you.

    Thomas Fjellstrom
    Member #476
    June 2000
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    If anyone is wondering how Jagex treats a person, look no further than Bruce! (*cough*Ben*cough*)

    probably why Shov-UK looked here, probably saw the allegro.cc address in the firewall logs from a certain someone's lunch break ;D (even though he probably doesn't even come on at lunch let alone during work hours :o)

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    X-G
    Member #856
    December 2000
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    Quote:

    probably why Shov-UK looked here, probably saw the allegro.cc address in the firewall logs from a certain someone's lunch break

    Actually, short of naming him outright, he did mention talking to an employee about it.

    Quote:

    Two negatives:
    -4 and -8

    Gives a positive:
    4

    Two negatives ain't give no positive.

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