How do I find the ultimate games programmer?
Shov-UK

Hi everyone!

I'm coming to you for advise and hope perhaps you can help me?

My company is looking to recruit an additional games programmer to our team, but our standards are too high for this to prove an easy task :-) The usual routes of agencies, CV searches etc just do not work here!

So, after speaking to other chaps on the team who use this forum, I thought I would see if I could gleam any advise from its users? If I am looking in the wrong place - then just let me know but right now Im willing to try anything.

Anyway, to give you a little more info - we are looking to recruit a Java Games Programmer who will also fully design and develop their own games in house. Their final game projeocts shall be launched on our dedicated "Mini Games Site" which users will pay to play. Though I cannt name our company here, I can tell you that we are the UK's 3rd largest and most successful independent games development studio and are the creators of one of the worlds most popular and successful MMORPG's - this is our main product.

Additionally, this role offers an unrivaled amount of creative freedom. We are independent of publishers and purely an online games company, therefore we are safe from many of the problems currently faced by games studios, operating a NO overtime or crunch time culture and allowing our staff that truly creative freedom mentioned above.

Anyway, without this sounding too much like a sermon, does anyone have any ideas where I could start looking or if anyone here wants to know more, let me know.

I hope this yields some results :-)

Thanks!

Vanneto

There is no "ultimate games programmer". And if there would be such a thing. It would be me. But I don't do Java. My mother doesn't let me... Maybe, some day... With protection.

Quote:

... Though I cannot name our company here ...

Can I do that for you? Jagex.

Shov-UK

Vanetto

Thanks for the comments - very "useful" ;D

Any actual advise that isn't thoroughly cheeky?

Vanneto

I am sure that someone will answer your question shortly... I think. Not so many people here at the moment. There are some Java programmers here and maybe even someone interested in a job you are offering ( certainly sounds interesting). :)

Shov-UK

Ah thanks Vanneto

Fingers crossed - dont want to sound like a spammer but I genuinely hope that the right candidate is somewhere on these forums!

HoHo

If there is some part-time job I can do on some weekend days from another country I might consider it :)
Btw, why didn't you want to say what company it is? Jagex is a big one and saying that it is looking for workers should attract more potential workers than some anonymous thing nobody knows about.

Shov-UK

Hi HoHo

Sadly this is a full time position only I am afraid :-( As much as we would love to offer part time work we simply cannot accommodate it. :-(

As for why i didn't mention Jagex initially - well I wanted to make sure you all realized I wasn't a spammer or looking for cheap advertising - I wanted interest in the role first, and then the company :-D

But now that its "out there" please do have a look on our website www.jagex.com under the vacancies section for more detailed info on the role!

Hope that makes sense! ;D

Steve++

If you want the ultimate games programmer, increase the money on offer by at least 100%.

GullRaDriel

And post the ultimate topic ;-)

Thomas Harte
Quote:

If you want the ultimate games programmer, increase the money on offer by at least 100%.

It's already a bit more than I get paid in publishing...

As to the real topic of discussion, I have no idea. Try and get people you already trust to recommend others?

nonnus29

Are you looking for a UK'er? If I came to work for you I'd have to move across the pond.... But I have written a few applet games/demos in my day. I've been thinking about porting my game basic (see sig for my blog about it) from C to java and putting it in an applet so kids could write games online.

The games. Note none of these are complete games, demo would be more accurate.

UnionJack vs the Rabid Demonic Sheep was a Ludum Dare entry:
http://www.geocities.com/nonnus29/unionjack/test.htm

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/593605

This is 4k software renderer for Java 4k contest 2005 using Graphics.fillPolygon:
http://www.geocities.com/nonnus29/j4k_2005/demo.htm

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/593606

This is another 4k software renderer using scanline filling. It's for a not-completed Java 4k 2006 entry:
No link because it never got to a playable state, ran out of room!
{"name":"sw4k_03.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/2\/d237a1e68fb102757c3a11d1f3af4bf9.png","w":386,"h":366,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/2\/d237a1e68fb102757c3a11d1f3af4bf9"}sw4k_03.png

This is a walk around demo for a rpg:
http://www.geocities.com/nonnus29/javademo/demo.htm

{"name":"593607","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/6\/d6dee9ed172a02dcfb680490a02fad70.png","w":399,"h":398,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/6\/d6dee9ed172a02dcfb680490a02fad70"}593607

Steve++

Nice work nonnus.

Shov-UK

Steve ++ - I agree with what you say - salary is somewhat negotiable...but (and I am sure you will raise your eyes to this) the pay off with this role comes from truely doing what you love for a living - we are looking for someone who codes mini games for a hobby and has done so all their life. To them, this is a golden job that they would do anything for - its just finding them that is hard :-)

Nonnus - these screenshots are very promising - I am impressed. Is there anyway we could talk more about this possibility - perhaps you could message me your email address and I could give you more information? Or just email me on careers@recruit.jagex.com and I will respond?

X-G

Okay, on a more serious note, not naming your company or your contacts isn't coming across as very... serious. I think people would appreciate more details. Especially since Jagex is a serious company with nothing to hide.

Shov-UK

X-G

In all fairness Ive been trying to be as careful as possible not to use names. I have however given our company web address and so all the information needed is on there, and I have encouraged people to look.

X-G

I'm sorry, what? Wanting more details about a prospective place of employment is considered inappropriate now?

Shov-UK

XG

Not at all, as I have already stated (you're quite a feisty one aren't you? are you interested at all?)

All the information is available on our website...in-case you missed it

WWW.JAGEX.COM

check out vacancies for more info about this position. And if you want more specific information then email me - is that reasonable now?

We have obviously viered off the point here, which I would very much like to get back to. There is no conspiracy or attempt at holding anything back - quite simply trying to find someone to fulfill a job they would enjoy!

Matthew Leverton

Don't mind the negative reactions. Most people who post on Allegro.cc that they are looking to hire people are just anonymous wannabes with no money. So while your initial intent to not disclose all the details was well intentioned, some people are bound to take it the wrong way from past experience.

Here's my seven year old contribution to the Java gaming: SPEED. But alas, I am not looking for a games programming job, a Java job, or a UK job. :-X

If I'm not mistaken, one of the long time a.cc members works for Jagex. I'd think that your current employees could refer you to needy ultimate games programmers.

bamccaig
Matthew Leverton said:

Here's my seven year old contribution to the Java gaming: SPEED.

H, K, U? :-/

Shov-UK

Thanks Matt!

Shame indeed you are not looking for a games programming job, or a java job, or a UK job!

Keep up the good work!

nonnus29
Quote:

Is there anyway we could talk more about this possibility

No, I don't think I'll pursue this. Taking a 50% pay cut and moving overseas may have been appealing when I was younger, but now not so much. Plus I'm really not interested in game programming these days.

Good luck filling the position though!

Shov-UK

thanks for letting me know Nonnus :-)

Not even the best salesman could argue with that!

Neil Black

As someone who plays Runescape I would love to work for Jagex. But unfortunately I don't know Java... and I'm not a very good programmer... and I also have no interest in moving away from my home. But good luck with your search!

bamccaig

I'd be willing to move to the UK for a game programming job with Jagex, but sadly my knowledge of Java is limited, and so is my math knowledge... :-/ I have a college diploma (or technically two), but if you'd be willing to put me through university and develop these skills I'm sure we could come to some arrangement. ;)

Neil Black

Here at Western they force Java down our throats. Except, oddly enough, the intro class, which is Visual Basic.

Slartibartfast

I'd move to the UK for a game programming job, if I was able to.
Then again, I'd have to move to another country if I want to get a game programming job, since the only game companies in here develop games for cellphones :S
(Except for the failed Ballerium by Majorem, which seemed kind of cool (And the beta was quite fun. At least when it was a closed beta.) but never got off the ground.)

Fladimir da Gorf

Even if it sounds rather interesting, I can't really move to UK right now :)

But I'll keep that in mind anyways. I've got all too much java experience (from my current job and as a hobbyist) and also game programming experience (software/hardware 2D + hardware 3D), but I've mainly focused on the services sector lately...

Dustin Dettmer

Are you looking for an all-in-one (aka. art) developer or just a programmer?

Edit:
Nevermind, I found your website. Multiply the salary by 250% and I would seriously consider moving to the UK.

Job Description said:

Requirements:

    </li>

    I do not have this.

    Steve++
    Quote:

    Steve ++ - I agree with what you say - salary is somewhat negotiable...but (and I am sure you will raise your eyes to this) the pay off with this role comes from truely doing what you love for a living - we are looking for someone who codes mini games for a hobby and has done so all their life. To them, this is a golden job that they would do anything for - its just finding them that is hard :-)

    You're so wrong about the payoff. I'm a decent Java programmer. At the age of 13 I started programming because I wanted to make games. I'm now 30 and it's still my dream job. However, for the same experience and effort, I get much more money in a conventional programming role. While it's not my dream job, it's only about a 10% decrease in satisfaction for about a 75% increase in pay. I can live with that. And almost all wannabe professional game programmers can as well, which is why you can't find anyone for the peanuts you're offering.

    Matthew Leverton

    $50,000 for a starting job is hardly peanuts. But if you can truly make $88,000 like Steve++ or $125,000 like Dustin, then it's not very good.

    But I do disagree with the notion that just because someone is doing something he likes, that he shouldn't be compensated fairly. (Not that I think $50,000 plus benefits is unfair.) One could make the same argument for every job.

    I mean, cleaning toilets would probably be one of the the highest paying jobs if you paid people based on how much they hated their jobs.

    kikabo

    Well, I would but I don't know java, don't want a big pay cut, don't want to pay £300k on an average house to work next to a ... guess :o

    Dustin Dettmer
    Matthew said:

    $50,000 for a starting job is hardly peanuts. But if you can truly make $88,000 like Steve++ or $125,000 like Dustin, then it's not very good.

    Don't forget to calculate rent and living expenses, which will be paid in the pound.

    StevenVI

    My girlfriend would beat me if I told her I was looking at a job in the UK. (She loves it over there, and would beat me out of love. We have an interesting relationship.) Further, yes the money is peanuts compared to what I'll be making once I finish my master's degree, and Matthew already beat me to saying it, but the money isn't bad at all. Beats unemployment any day. Also a tad nicer than my stipend.

    That said, I'm not really good at designing games, and it sounds like you're looking for a Renaissance man in this position. (I made a garbage man simulator. Turns out collecting garbage cans just isn't fun.)

    I'm unsure how I would feel though, if I knew I was working for a company which recruits on Internet message boards. That's kind of weird. But on the other hand, I know how poor my peers were at programming when I was in college. They all drooled over my Java Applet online RPG for networking class. (Sorry, not interested in the job, don't inquire. ;))

    (Edit: it was hardly an online RPG like WoW is, not that I've actually played it, but MMORPGs were still new at the time and I was guessing how they probably looked. I don't want to pay a monthly fee to play a game.)

    nonnus29
    Matthew said:

    $50,000 for a starting job is hardly peanuts.

    Yeah, but the advertised salary is only $34,000 plus the cost of living difference between where I live and the UK would diminish it further (the cost of living where I live is well below the national average). If I stay with my current job I can be up to $70k in a few years. And my job is dead easy 75% of the time.

    Matthew Leverton

    From the website, assuming I'm looking at the right position:

    Quote:

    Up to £24k, plus excellent benefits package including annual bonus, private healthcare and gym membership.

    That is essentially $50,000 (plus benefits). And of course I don't know what the cost of living is in Cambridge, but the salary would be adequate in Chicago.

    Vanneto
    Quote:

    Further, yes the money is peanuts compared to what I'll be making once I finish my master's degree,

    I agree. That salary is far less than peanuts once I become a multi-billionaire tycoon.

    Kibiz0r

    I'd be interested, if I could work remotely. Actually, assuming that, I'd be interested in either the 3D modeling position, or the Java position. My qualifications are probably a little bit behind your ideal, and I am more of a C++ programmer than a Java programmer, but here's the run-down anyways:

    My schooling is a little confusing to explain. I'm a junior in "Digital Animation and Game Design", but the programming part sort of got spun off into its own major this year, so now I'm double-majoring in DAGD and "Digital Media Software Engineering", which is just CS with an emphasis on game development.

    Proficient languages:
    (in order of preference)

    • C/C++

    • Java

    • ActionScript

    • VB

    • TorqueScript

    My portfolio:

    School stuff

    • Art

    • Freshman year

    • Sophomore year

  • Code/Game Design
    • High school (independent study)

    • Sophomore year

    • Junior year

    [/list]

    Personal work (the fun stuff)

    • Art

    • Code/Game Design

    • Web sites

    And now I get the feeling that this post was entirely too long, and that I probably didn't even need to say anything beyond the first sentence. Oh well.

    Shov-UK

    Hi all

    Wow - I had no idea there would be so many posts and opinions when I logged on this morning. Thanks for all of the comments though, they are all very useful in their own ways.

    A couple of things I would like to mention regarding pay - I agree entirely with what most of you have said and I wish that higher salaries could be offered of course. However, when compared to salaries offered elsewehere for what is in essence a "junior" or first time professional developer role (regardless of whether the individual's skills in this area are junior indeed...this is where i regret the wording of my post title :-D) ours is very competitive.

    One other thing I wanted to point out was that the stability we offer here at Jagex is almost unmatched in the UK and perhaps global games development market. For example, many independent developers offer marginally higher salaries for comparable roles - however they struggle to remain in business, and with the industry moving further and further into an online, non-high street model, such developers are likely to struggle further still. So I guess what I am saying is that a more attractive salary means very little when the job is only there for a year at best before the company folds! While I of course cannot predict the future, I can say that being completely independent, established and online, Jagex are about fifty steps ahead of our peers and so jobs here are safe and in demand.

    I hope that at least goes a little way to justifying what we offer, and again I am sure on deeper reading into the benefits offered here - the package itself becomes much more attractive 8-)

    I also want to just respond to the comment about professionalism in "recruiting" through a forum. I understand how this can be perceived in such a way, and as such I want to make sure we are all on the same page here. As a company, we recruit in all the usual "professional" ways for our positions. My reason for posting here was on my own accord, and in essence following a "hunch". Creativity and thinking outside the box is what we are all about here - and while I could continue the professional approach to recruitment until hell freezes over, I still may not find the candidate I am looking for (believe me we have been recruiting for this position for some time now...traditionally). And so I went out on a limb and decided that there may be benefit in talking to the people I need to talk to, and already your comments have been more valuable and rewarding than any agency, magazine or job centre could ever provide :-D So I still feel I may be onto something!

    Sadly however I cannot spend all day on a forum and today I have a University careers fair to attend in about 2 hours so I must log off and will not be back on here again until Monday. But I just wanted everyone to know that I am reading, I am listening and I am still hoping that somewhere out there, our position, our company and our vision will hit home and who knows - perhaps this hunch will bear some fruit yet? Ill be keeping my fingers crossed anyway.

    Thanks every one!...oh and by the way - that satellite photo is misleading - our offices are set in a beautiful location with a lake and parkland a moments walk away :-D

    OICW

    I would be interested. Sadly enough I just started my CS studies plus I don't live in GB. The latter however would be just a small problem. Anyway wishing you good luck on finding who do you want to find.

    Dustin Dettmer
    Shov-UK said:

    However, when compared to salaries offered elsewehere for what is in essence a "junior" or first time professional developer role (regardless of whether the individual's skills in this area are junior indeed...this is where i regret the wording of my post title :-D) ours is very competitive.

    Why are you seeking a skilled candidate to fill a junior role?

    Do you really intend to obtain commitment by pointing at others lack of payment? A double negative does not make a positive. Maybe this line works on typical employees but it will not work on a sufficiently intelligent candidate.

    Why do you think it is so hard to find talent? Maybe it is this industry you refer to and its 'bare-bones' salaries that are pushing them away. Do you intend to bring them back by comparing yourself to the industry they are avoiding?

    Shov-UK said:

    I agree entirely with what most of you have said and I wish that higher salaries could be offered of course.

    If your company is unable to pay for the skills it requires, they could consider royalties. Smart people tend to appreciate royalties.

    piccolo

    That salary is peanuts in UK and where im from i use to make that working as a construction labor. I live in a UK owned country.

    edit:
    but i will recommend it to any of the Americans looking for a new start with new women.

    Evert

    My salery is about €25,000 so I wouldn't consider the job badly paid. That said, we all knew academics is hardly going to make one rich.

    piccolo
    Quote:

    That said, we all knew academics is hardly going to make one rich.

    that dependens on how you apply it.

    im going to be very well off very soon. of corse ill put large amounts of money in to resurface and development.

    nonnus29
    Quote:

    but i will recommend it to any of the Americans looking for a new start with new women.

    L0L, the only thing worse than American women is British women. American women will at least have a conversation with you, British woman think the only reason a man speaks to them is to 'chat them up' and get into their knickers.

    It's really sad actually.

    piccolo

    but they will be atracted to you because you speak amarican.

    nonnus29

    Nope, that wasn't the case at all..... :-/

    Evert
    Quote:

    that dependens on how you apply it.

    Not really. You don't go into science with the intention of getting rich, it just doesn't happen. Even if you make professor, you earn nowhere near what you would make if you had gone into industry instead.

    Quote:

    but they will be atracted to you because you speak amarican.

    In Britain? Hardly.

    Vanneto
    Quote:

    A double negative does not make a positive

    - 4 - ( -8 ) = 4 <--- positive
    

    Two negatives:
    -4 and -8

    Gives a positive:
    4

    Thomas Fjellstrom

    If anyone is wondering how Jagex treats a person, look no further than Bruce! (*cough*Ben*cough*)

    probably why Shov-UK looked here, probably saw the allegro.cc address in the firewall logs from a certain someone's lunch break ;D (even though he probably doesn't even come on at lunch let alone during work hours :o)

    X-G

    Quote:

    probably why Shov-UK looked here, probably saw the allegro.cc address in the firewall logs from a certain someone's lunch break

    Actually, short of naming him outright, he did mention talking to an employee about it.

    Quote:

    Two negatives:
    -4 and -8

    Gives a positive:
    4

    Two negatives ain't give no positive.

    Thomas Fjellstrom
    Quote:

    Actually, short of naming him outright, he did mention talking to an employee about it.

    ;) Well if he is mad about it, he knows where to find me :)

    Vanneto

    Yes they do:

    (-4) - (-8) = 4
    

    Check it on your calculator... It really is true. :o

    Kibiz0r

    ...

    Give it time. He'll figure it out.

    Fladimir da Gorf

    I'll help, by "double negative" the original poster was actually referring to "-(-8)" of course ;)

    Shov-UK, if that's the starting salary that is mentioned, then how much can it be expected to rise during the first few years?

    OICW
    Quote:

    Not really. You don't go into science with the intention of getting rich, it just doesn't happen. Even if you make professor, you earn nowhere near what you would make if you had gone into industry instead.

    Yes, that's true. But it also all depends on what you decide to do with your CS degree. You can stay on university, or somewhere in lab, and research new things. Or you can get hired by one of the many software companies who are on lookout for programmers/developers/modeleres/you name it.

    I had two options where to go (there are many more universities here, but these two were in my city), I could either study CTU or MFF at Charles University. I study the latter. It's focused more on theory, however they told us that they will teach us how to use our brain. After five years I will be able either to follow the career of a scientist or attain higly paid job in IT (around here, they are really well paid plus always on lookout for graduate students).

    James Stanley
    Quote:

    the pay off with this role comes from truely doing what you love for a living

    I don't know if people have said any of this already, haven't read whole thread, but...

    Basically, what you're asking for is someone who likes writing games, so that

    1.) Your software is written well
    2.) You don't have to pay them much

    Also, I don't believe this is either real or Runescape related. If Runescape were looking for programmers, they wouldn't come to Allegro.cc. If someone else was looking for programmers, they would name the company.

    Thomas Fjellstrom
    Quote:

    Also, I don't believe this is either real or Runescape related. If Runescape were looking for programmers, they wouldn't come to Allegro.cc. If someone else was looking for programmers, they would name the company.

    Thats a little silly. Why wouldn't a smaller games company come to a place that fosters game programmers, and one of their own already hangs out at?

    And as was stated, 50k USD is pretty darn decent for a starting position in a company. I know people that started at 20k (CAD, back when it was 0.60 per USD) for programming jobs.

    HoHo
    Quote:

    And as was stated, 50k USD is pretty darn decent for a starting position in a company

    I also know that a friend of mine started with ~€1k per month and got twice that two months later. If the company is half decent and you really know your thing you usually can get decent salary in not too long time

    Vanneto

    Are most people here living in the clouds or are there really such high salaries in the U.S.? :o

    HoHo

    At least in Estonia the reason is there are not enough knowledgeable workers so the ones who are competent are mostly way overpaid. National average salary is around €600.

    Neil Black
    Quote:

    - 4 - ( -8 ) = 4 <--- positive

    That's taking away a negative. The argument was that adding a negative to another negative doesn't make a positive.

    -4 + ( -8 ) = -12 <--- negative

    Vanneto

    Ohhh OK. ;D Sorry for the mistake. :P

    Slartibartfast

    Maybe you should consider that one positive makes a negative:
    0.5 is positive
    ln(0.5) = -0.69314718055994530941723212145818
    -0.69314718055994530941723212145818 is negative :P

    (Neil Black, consider it a response to Vanneto :P)

    HoHo

    -2 * -6 = 12 :)

    nonnus29
    Quote:

    And as was stated, 50k USD is pretty darn decent

    Oops, up there when I said I wouldn't take a 50% pay cut I did the currency conversion with euros, not pounds. 24k euros is about $30k. 24k pounds is 50k. So no, I'm not making 100k a year. I don't do any programming either; I just spent a week researching to update 1 line in a database. :'(

    Peter Hull

    Shov-UK: a bit offtopic but while you're here - what do you think of the "Consumer JRE" aka update N or whatever it's called this week, and what do you think of Project Darkstar?
    Pete

    Slartibartfast
    I said:

    ...The only game companies in here develop games for cellphones :S
    (Except for the failed Ballerium...

    I would like to revise my statement: http://www.rising-eagle.com/

    Richard Phipps

    I am sparticus!

    Oh sorry, wrong question..

    Bruce Perry
    Quote:

    edit:
    but i will recommend it to any of the Americans looking for a new start with new women.

    Two musicians are walking down the street, and one says to the other, "Who was that piccolo I saw you with last night?"
    The other replies, "That was no piccolo, that was my fife."

    Richard Phipps

    Good God Bruce! :P

    Vanneto

    Whats a piccolo?

    HoHo
    Vanneto

    I'm scared now.

    Bruce Perry

    A piccolo is a musical instrument, pretty much a small, octave-higher version of the flute. It's a standard member of the modern orchestra. A fife is similar, apparently. I think the point of the joke is that the words sound similar to "gigolo" and "wife", though looking up "gigolo", apparently a gigolo is a man who has sex with and is supported by a woman. Maybe he was a drag queen. ???

    Richard, you should apply :) I'd apply but I don't think they'd take me very seriously. :-/

    bamccaig

    :D

    Richard Phipps

    Naw.. I'm not interested in doing games for a commercial company. Besides I don't know Java and am not that interested in the geekiness of that side of programming. ;)

    le_y_mistar

    i'd do it but i need at least $90k to make it worth my time+effort, 50k is not enough for a dead end game programing job imo

    kazzmir

    It's probably a long shot but you could try contacting people who have already made a game in Java.
    http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=java+game&section=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

    Freshmeat lists tons of open source projects.

    Matias D'Ambrosio

    While I can see that the offer is not for everybody, I find it very appealing, and I have sent a PM on the forum (I know you posted your email earlier in this thread, but I am reluctant to send unrequested emails :-) ).

    Neil Walker

    Not that it's any relevance, but I think runescape is a hideous game. Very poor graphics, slow servers, simplistic gameplay. And those online java games are pretty shoddy too, far worse than most you can find at your average 'free flash games' google search.

    Bruce Perry

    Hmm, the RuneScape servers respond just fine for me. Your post does not cite its references. :-X

    By the way, I suspect the quality of their current projects is more on the level of this or this perhaps. Not that I'd know anything, of course.

    (I'm so going to get fired.)

    Kibiz0r

    RuneScape was pretty bad for me, when I tried it out, but that was forever and a half ago.

    Rash

    If Wikipedia is to be believed, then RuneScape is the 10th most contentious subject ever. ;)

    Neil Black

    Runscape is ok. But then, I'm not really worried about graphics when I play a game, I'm worried about having fun.

    bamccaig

    Runespace is awesome for what it is. A MMORPG written in Java designed to be played in a Web browser, with free and premium play options. :-/ It works just fine for me, though you do need an adequate PC to run an MMORPG in your Web browser.

    I have a character somewhere around level 30. :D

    ***** ***** said:

    (I'm so going to get fired.)

    DELETE FROM Post WHERE ThreadID = 708243 AND MemberID = 270;
    :P

    Neil Black

    Ha! level 41! WOO! I have less of a life than you! Wait... that's a bad thing... :'(

    Dustin Dettmer

    Source: Cost of living in the UK.

    Conclusion:
    Big mac and can of coke costs me £1.99 + £0.65 = £2.64

    Where I live the same thing costs me $1.99 + $0.75 = $2.74

    This means I get about a 3.79% increase in 'usability' of my money.
    24 000 * (103.79%) = 24 909.6

    Now, after adjustment, I have 25k/year to spend. When I quit this job and move back to America my savings will nearly double! The sad part is, at 25k/yr, I will not have any savings.

    You guys are smarter then this, don't be fooled by currency exchanges.

    For those still confused about currency exchange rates and what they really mean
    http://www.epinions.com/content_2461573252

    Bob

    James Stanley is correct. If you are looking for ultimate programmers, ultimate programmers start at 100k USD plus benefits and work up from there.

    At the salary you are posting, you're either looking for someone for a junior / newbie position (in which case they will not be "ultimate programmers"), or someone who likes making games enough to offset the 2-3x reduction in salary.

    Shov-UK

    Dear All

    Thank you for all your comments on this post. Unfortunately I am unable to check the forum as often as I would like given my already very busy job here ;-) and so would like to close this thread if possible - though I'm not sure if that can be done, hence me writing here to say bye for now ;D

    I will endevour to check every once in a while, but should anyone have anything to add which they want me to hear, or indeed be interested in the role described - please feel free to contact me directly, my address is graduate@recruit.jagex.com and put FAO Peter Lovell in the title.

    Of course keep checking the website for more info if indeed you are interested too.

    I would love to hear more from you all, and wish you all the best!

    Thanks again all.

    Steve++

    No, you can't close the thread, so I guess we'll just keep going until the thread dies its usual natural death (and closes after 7 days of inactivity).

    Good luck trying to find a guru at amateur rates.

    Vanneto

    The dollar is now even less worth then before. Man, time to change everything into dollars, then, when its value rises, I sell and im rich! ;D

    Thread #593829. Printed from Allegro.cc