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My problems with Baldur's Gate...
SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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I can't see anything that would be immediately crippling about that strategy. It definitely sounds like you will have a good character. You may also want to put a couple of points into the sword and shield style if you can.

IIRC the only things that generally get you into trouble are armours. I.e. if you a dual class wizard/fighter you won't be able to wear armour and cast spells at the same time. Clerics do not have this issue however, as far as I know you won't have any issues with retaining all of your proficiencies.

Dual Class characters, once they switch, can never improve their original class again. So no, once you become a cleric you are done with that class in terms of adding levels to it.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Baldurs Gate Manual p.26 said:

After a character becomes dual classed he can only use the abilities of his new class until he surpasses the level of his original class at which point he can freely use the abilities of either class. No further advancement is ever allowed in the first class , all further development is in the new class.

That can be a long time if you want your original class to be high level. I usually try to dualclass out at 5th-7th level fighter so they're not vulnerable too long.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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What about 1 single fighter level, then the rest cleric or mage?

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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It depends on what that single level of fighter can get you. I would stay with fighter until I had specialization or master level in one weapon to get good attack bonuses. Shields are better later on , but always helpful.

If I was playing myself , I usually leave the healing to other party members , usually a cleric and a druid to get spell variety along with a mage for timely firepower. Add two heavy warriors to keep the uglies busy and a thief for stealth , trap removal and unlocking chests. So I generally keep everyone single class , that way they reach the better abilities , spells and powers sooner on in the game.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

It depends on what that single level of fighter can get you. I would stay with fighter until I had specialization or master level in one weapon to get good attack bonuses.

How many fighter levels gives you x number of specialisations in a particular weapon?

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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I don't remember how many levels it takes , it's been too long. I might have to go and reinstall Baldur's Gate! Then I'll never get anything done.

You get to pick a couple of proficiencies at character creation and then every few levels or so you get to pick another one.
p. 92 manual

Level of Proficiency  | Points spent | Bonus to Hit | Bonus Damage | Attacks/Round
Proficient                    1              0            0                1
Specialized                   2             +1           +2               3/2
Master                        3             +3           +3               3/2
High Master                   4             +3           +4               3/2
Grand Master                  5             +3           +5                2

Only fighters can spend more than two proficiency points on any single weapon class proficiency (not rangers / paladins) . Warriors get an extra attack at 7th level.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Is there any problem with starting at level 1 in Baldur's Gate II?

Or is it like NWN:HoTU campaign where it levels you to 15 before you start?

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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In BG2 you start at level 7 or 8.

Speaking of the fighter/cleric:
i'm pretty sure that in BG 1&2 you will be restricted to cleric only weapons, so no long blade. You should focus on mace weapons instead. :)

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

i'm pretty sure that in BG 1&2 you will be restricted to cleric only weapons, so no long blade. You should focus on mace weapons instead.

Yeah, I just read about that in a website -- the BG pack doesn't come with any manuals.

It's a pity that the multi-class/dual-class system is inflexible (unlike in NWN)... What are some nice class combinations, do you think?

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Quote:

It's a pity that the multi-class/dual-class system is inflexible (unlike in NWN)... What are some nice class combinations, do you think?

The fact is that BG1&2 use the 2nd edition, NWN the 3rd, which gives your more chances to make powerfull characters, but also less credible characters (es. paladin\sorcerer). The 2nd edition restricts you more but enables, IMO, only "realistic" choices, which is good.

As for a good character, i prefer to not multiclass in 2nd edition games and usually go with a straight class. In BG2 i'd go as a sorcerer (at later levels you simply are a weapon of mass destruction :P), in BG1 as anything but mages (too weak and too few hp at those low levels). Interesting multi/dual classes would be fighter/rogue, fighter\cleric, fighter/mage.
This is of course just my personal opinion :)

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

Interesting multi/dual classes would be fighter/rogue, fighter\cleric, fighter/mage.

Do you prefer dual or multi?

Also, is there any reason to level up through BG1 and transfer the character to BG2?
The problem I'd probably have is that the class kits are better than the vanilla classes which aren't available in BG1 -- meaning that I would have to start again in BG2 anyway. For example, multiclassing a Kensai/SpecialistMage would be better than Fighter/Mage because you'd get better stuff yet you don't have to worry about the heavy armour problem...

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Quote:

NWN the 3rd, which gives your more chances to make powerfull characters

I disagree, in some ways. With dual-classing you can effectively get a level 28 character (or so) in BG2, because of how the way the XP adds up (and the fact that different classes level up at different rates). In 3rd ed most classes get their good abilities quite late, so it's usually not worth it to train several classes (the expection being prestige classes, which are pretty good at lower levels, and often requires two or more classes trained beforehand).

Quote:

For example, multiclassing a Kensai/SpecialistMage would be better than Fighter/Mage because you'd get better stuff yet you don't have to worry about the heavy armour problem...

You can only multiclass "pure" classes (except for gnomes who become illusionists if multiclassed with a mage) (and only dualclass to a pure class). Though a kensai dualclassed to mage is one of the most powerful combinations in BG2 :) (also most cheesy). Also, you can have specialist mages in BG1 (they are not that great anyway).

But yes, it's usually better to make a new character in BG2. Esp if you have a cleric, since the cleric kits have (almost) no drawbacks but plenty of bonuses (same goes for fighter->berserker (almost no drawbacks) and the thief kits).

My favourite class by far in BG2 is the sorceress :) But it's probably not a good "first game"-choice as it's pretty unforgiving to mistakes (you pick spells, and you are stuck with them). If you have the expansion, the wild wizard (oslt) is pretty fun :)

I also like the assassin a lot (its poison attack is much better than described in the kit description). It could be dual-classed with a fighter to get a pretty lethal poisonous whirlwind attack 8-)

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

Though a kensai dualclassed to mage is one of the most powerful combinations in BG2 :) (also most cheesy).

What level do people usually stop leveling the kensai at to move onto the mage?
Surely the next x+1 levels would appear slow?

Quote:

But yes, it's usually better to make a new character in BG2. Esp if you have a cleric, since the cleric kits have (almost) no drawbacks but plenty of bonuses (same goes for fighter->berserker (almost no drawbacks) and the thief kits).

I installed a BG mod known as "TuTu" which supposedly merges BG1 with the engine (and features) of BG2.

Quote:

My favourite class by far in BG2 is the sorceress :) But it's probably not a good "first game"-choice as it's pretty unforgiving to mistakes (you pick spells, and you are stuck with them).

So you cannot unlearn them? (which you can in NWN)

Another combination that was mentioned in a website or two was multi-classed Ranger/Cleric. What is your take on that?

Albin Engström
Member #8,110
December 2006
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DELETED

forget it... you ware aware of tutu already... :)

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Quote:

What level do people usually stop leveling the kensai at to move onto the mage?
Surely the next x+1 levels would appear slow?

Can't remember exactly, but i think it was at level 9 (in BG2 w/o expansion). And yes, the mage levels (esp 9 and 10) will be pretty slow.

And no, no unlearning of sorceress spells.

Yeah, the ranger/cleric thing is pretty awesome but only because it's an exploit (imo).

You would have access to both druid spells and cleric spells (which is a pretty great combination), and your spell slots would be (mostly) from the cleric. Imo, it should limit you to using druid spells in the ranger slots and cleric spells in the cleric slots. But since it doesnt, it's a powerful class with heavy armor, stoneskin, heal, great buffs, great summonings, decent attack bonus, decent health, dual wielding, and lots of high-level abilities.

Albin Engström
Member #8,110
December 2006
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I've found a pretty funny exploit, make a wild mage and use the spell sequencer (or whatever it's called) you know, the spell with combines two spells, anyway, combine atleast two Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and cast it, you know how you get a list of spell to cast? well, usually it disappears after one spell has been cast, since it's two i figured that i should be able to cast two spells, but after spending the second one the list didn't disappear.. you have unlimited spells of all levels! Mohawhawhaw..

The downside is that since you're a wildmage you'll always live with the possibility of getting a cow in your head every time you cast a spell :(... and as the enemy has no chance of winning (unless your wild magic goes wild) the game becomes pretty boring.

have anyone else found this exploit?
btw, i don't know if this has been fixed in the latest patches.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Hmm, i seem to recall that it was impossible to put that spell in a sequencer. But using exploits (and there are many in BG2) is a very good way to ruin the game, so i wouldn't recommend it :)

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Quote:

What level do people usually stop leveling the kensai at to move onto the mage?

Consider there is an XP cap, and that each class has different xp requirements you should calculate what level in kensai will leave you enough exp to be a +1 (or more) level mage.

Quote:

I disagree, in some ways. With dual-classing you can effectively get a level 28 character (or so) in BG2, because of how the way the XP adds up (and the fact that different classes level up at different rates). In 3rd ed most classes get their good abilities quite late, so it's usually not worth it to train several classes

It is true that many classes get good traits on higher levels, but the 3rd edition allows you to multiclass in unrealistic and extremely unbalanced way, IF a DM doesn't prevent it. Check this
Another common example is the 1paladin\sorcerer so abused in NWN, you basically get huge saving throws bonuses from your paladin level and all the destructive power of the sorcerer, all of this playing a character that has to reason to exist!

Quote:

Also, is there any reason to level up through BG1 and transfer the character to BG2?

Yes, if you fall in love with your character ;)
Seriously if i where you i'd just start by playing BG2 (which is what i did, since at the time i wasn't able to get a copy of BG1), which is far more balanced and entertaining than BG1

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Albin Engström
Member #8,110
December 2006
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Jonatan Hedborg said:

Hmm, i seem to recall that it was impossible to put that spell in a sequencer. But using exploits (and there are many in BG2) is a very good way to ruin the game, so i wouldn't recommend it :)

True, I've totally ruined my BG2 experience with stuff like that. :(

FMC said:

Seriously if i where you i'd just start by playing BG2 (which is what i did, since at the time i wasn't able to get a copy of BG1), which is far more balanced and entertaining than BG1

Which is a good reason why you should go for TUTU, or where you referring to the actually content(npc, quests, nstuff) of the game? There are a lot of enchantments to TUTU you could check out, there may be a balancing addon.

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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BG1 is defiantly a good game to play. And as i understand it, it's a bit more in "the spirit of AD&D" (low level cap etc, no uber-characters). There is also a bit more exploration in BG1. I still prefer BG2 though.

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

Another common example is the 1paladin\sorcerer so abused in NWN, you basically get huge saving throws bonuses from your paladin level and all the destructive power of the sorcerer, all of this playing a character that has to reason to exist!

Hehehe, I did that. However, when I played the HotU campaign with this combination, Meph. had major resistances to magic and I couldn't win without knowing his true name... Now my favourite class combination is cleric/fighter.

Here's another issue that I've had with D&D: many spells are kind of pointless or are shadowed by clearly superior spells.

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Quote:

Which is a good reason why you should go for TUTU, or where you referring to the actually content(npc, quests, nstuff) of the game?

I was speaking of actual content (and that's why i like the Icewind Dales series less, due to it's lack of story) :)

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Quote:

I was speaking of actual content (and that's why i like the Icewind Dales series less, due to it's lack of story) :)

I think that Icewind Dale is also in a pack at EBGames. Should I still consider getting it?

Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Icewind dale is inferior to BG1/2 in almost every way (imo), but it's still pretty fun. It's pretty much just a dungeon slasher/burner/maimer. Get it, play it after you are done with BG1/2 :)

Archon
Member #4,195
January 2004
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Has anyone played Neverwinter Nights 2? I probably would have it by now if it hadn't been DirectX 9 (and used SDL like NWN1).
Instead, I'll wait for it to drop in price.

Also, it requires a much faster video card -- so that's another reason why I don't have it.

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